Monster Fuel Injection Stage 2 Flash - F3T 2016

[MagYukon]

Hi,

Reading all post about Monster Flash, I'm really thinking about getting it done.

For Stage 2, it seems like the sound might be a little different.

Actually, everything is stock on my F3T (motor, spark plug, air filter, exhaust, ...). And besides the small modification that Monster will do to the Air Filter Box, I'm planning to keep it that way.

Can someone who has it done can tell me if the result sounds will be that different ? will it be louder ?

My wife, which rides 90% of the time with me, just cannot stand any "loud noise" coming from any bikes. So, I'd like to know in advance what I might end up with.

Thanks !

[mackanigbg]

Hi,

If you are going to have both the catalyst and stock muffler still on the bike you should probably just get stage 1. It makes the best of the stock bike.

When you add even more fuel, ignition and also air to the engine it will need to breathe easier to get some, or at least full, benefit from the stage 2.

[JS3535]

I would get stage 1 & a cat delete with a baffle. I just ordered a longer version of the can opener baffle to put in mine. Should quiet it down some more & regain some low end that was lost.

[Dennis in Lodi]

The holes in the air box lid for stage 2 make a noticeable intake sound at certain rpms. Since the top of the filter lid and the holes point up toward me, it's kind of like a honk in my face.
It has taken about 250 miles for me to get all the mapping changes working. It's not just the ECU receiving information and adjusting, I have to adjust my driving and shifting style.
Stage 1 has about the same hp and torque as stage 2 until about 6,500 then the dyno graphs start to separate. You have to be a seasoned rider to really feel the difference.
So, Stage 1 will put a smile on your face just fine with only a slight change in sound.
Dennis

[308gunner]

I have a stage II...I will be the first to say pay the money and go that route...the stage I gives you good top end...but..the stage II..also gives you better low end torque..more bottom end power...thats the main area where the Spyder is lacking ...the stage II resolves that ...I do agree with you on keeping the exhaust stock...the Remap will give you more air and fuel which will make it slightly louder because it's no longer running lean...it will run the way it's supposed to from the factory...I also drag race tested both the stage I and stage II..so I know the bottom end is better on stage II..

[JS3535]

I have to disagree with gunner. If you are doing any flash I would remove the cat. That thing is so restrictive, plus now with the more fuel (so to speak) going to it, it’s going to get hotter.

[Wildrice]

Hi,

Reading all post about Monster Flash, I'm really thinking about getting it done.

For Stage 2, it seems like the sound might be a little different.

Actually, everything is stock on my F3T (motor, spark plug, air filter, exhaust, ...). And besides the small modification that Monster will do to the Air Filter Box, I'm planning to keep it that way.

Can someone who has it done can tell me if the result sounds will be that different ? will it be louder ?

My wife, which rides 90% of the time with me, just cannot stand any "loud noise" coming from any bikes. So, I'd like to know in advance what I might end up with.

Thanks !

I had the Stage 1 ECU upgrade & now Monster Fuel Injection did Stage 2 over the Winter. I can't hear any difference between Stage 1 or stage 2 or stock.. The CAT delete pipe will make it obnoxiously Loud--I even tried it with 2 Baffles which gave it a very weird sound. I'm going to put up with the extra CAT weight as I removed the CAT delete , installed the CAT & it's much better sound wise. To each his own, my neighbor is a lot happier with the CAT installed :-)
Darrell

[308gunner]

I have to disagree with gunner. If you are doing any flash I would remove the cat. That thing is so restrictive, plus now with the more fuel (so to speak) going to it, it’s going to get hotter.

Its going to run better...not hotter...as long as you change your oil every 5000 miles (that's very important)...he won't have any problems with a stock cat...and it's obvious he's not going to race it...so he can easily run a stock cat without any problems.

[JS3535]

Just to clarify, I meant the cat is going to be hotter, not the engine. The more hydrocarbons going into it the hotter it will become. Monster recommends cat removal with both stages, but only stage 1 with a cat. I’m experimenting with my exhaust right now to see if I can quiet it down with the cat delete. I’m really tempted to make my own chambered muffler but waiting to see if what I’m going to do first will work. The down side to cat removal with or without flash is the noise (some like it & some don’t).

[308gunner]

Good info regarding the cat stage I..

[GRUNT]

Please tell me where to get the ECU flash... I keep reading about it but never see where you go to get help. Thx

[Peteoz]

I had the Stage 1 ECU upgrade & now Monster Fuel Injection did Stage 2 over the Winter. I can't hear any difference between Stage 1 or stage 2 or stock.. The CAT delete pipe will make it obnoxiously Loud--I even tried it with 2 Baffles which gave it a very weird sound. I'm going to put up with the extra CAT weight as I removed the CAT delete , installed the CAT & it's much better sound wise. To each his own, my neighbor is a lot happier with the CAT installed :-)
Darrell

I’m the same as you regarding noise level increase, Darrell. I noticed no difference between stock and stage 2 of Jase’s tune. He also told me I needed to make no changes to the stock F3 setup, unless I’m looking for extra “mousepower”. For what I was looking to achieve re torque and responsiveness, it has exceeded expectations.:2thumbs:

Pete

[Wildrice]

I’m the same as you regarding noise level increase, Darrell. I noticed no difference between stock and stage 2 of Jase’s tune. He also told me I needed to make no changes to the stock F3 setup, unless I’m looking for extra “mousepower”. For what I was looking to achieve re torque and responsiveness, it has exceeded expectations.:2thumbs:

Pete

Exactly Pete, The mousepower with Cat delete would be on the very top end of rpm & mph--kph to you Pete :-) . With the Cat delete I lost considerable off the line torque--the rear wheel never even spun, the added baffles I used were inadequate to provide the back pressure the engine needed at low rpm.
Darrell

[Wildrice]

I have a stage II...I will be the first to say pay the money and go that route...the stage I gives you good top end...but..the stage II..also gives you better low end torque..more bottom end power...thats the main area where the Spyder is lacking ...the stage II resolves that ...I do agree with you on keeping the exhaust stock...the Remap will give you more air and fuel which will make it slightly louder because it's no longer running lean...it will run the way it's supposed to from the factory...I also drag race tested both the stage I and stage II..so I know the bottom end is better on stage II..

I'm going to the 1/4 mi dragstrip on May 10th with Columbus Racing who leased the track for the day. What was your best ET & mph in the 1/4 mi ???
Darrell

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Exactly Pete, The mousepower with Cat delete would be on the very top end of rpm & mph--kph to you Pete :-) . With the Cat delete I lost considerable off the line torque--the rear wheel never even spun, the added baffles I used were inadequate to provide the back pressure the engine needed at low rpm.
Darrell

JMHO , but I think at the Drag track …. top end would be an advantage …………… Controlling the Spyder off the line is critical ( of course the timing lights are most important ) …...………… Mike :ohyea:

[Wildrice]

JMHO , but I think at the Drag track …. top end would be an advantage …………… Controlling the Spyder off the line is critical ( of course the timing lights are most important ) …...………… Mike :ohyea:

They spray the track's 1st 100-200 ft thus I don't think I should be having a wheel spin problem issue. As for ET--1/4 of my timing slips have R/L written on them :roflblack:. I'm racing myself to see what the F3's will do, I imagine most of the runs I'll be looking at tail lights in the other lane :ohyea: Out of 50 vehicles allowed I'll be the only Spyder. Columbus Racing has the track leased for the entire day so getting runs in shouldn't be a problem :yes: If I feel in a competitive mood I may remove the 28" F4 windshield & saddle bags but generally I just want to see how it does in normal street dressing.
Darrell

[Wildrice]

Please tell me where to get the ECU flash... I keep reading about it but never see where you go to get help. Thx

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/home/canam/canam-spyder/ in Canada. They also have someone in the USA who does their work locally--contact them & they will give you the USA info.
Darrell

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

They spray the track's 1st 100-200 ft thus I don't think I should be having a wheel spin problem issue. As for ET--1/4 of my timing slips have R/L written on them :roflblack:. I'm racing myself to see what the F3's will do, I imagine most of the runs I'll be looking at tail lights in the other lane :ohyea: Out of 50 vehicles allowed I'll be the only Spyder. Columbus Racing has the track leased for the entire day so getting runs in shouldn't be a problem :yes: If I feel in a competitive mood I may remove the 28" F4 windshield & saddle bags but generally I just want to see how it does in normal street dressing.
Darrell

"spray the tracks 1st 100-200 ft. " …… What are they spraying it with ???? …………… I've seen them spray the staging area Before the timing lights to Promote wheel spin to warm the tires...…. but nothing on the actual track surface they race on …… Mike :ohyea:

[Wildrice]

"spray the tracks 1st 100-200 ft. " …… What are they spraying it with ???? …………… I've seen them spray the staging area Before the timing lights to Promote wheel spin to warm the tires...…. but nothing on the actual track surface they race on …… Mike :ohyea:

Wrongo Mikie--they spray water for the burnout--I believe the spray that starts at the tree is VHT traction compound . This is on a sanctioned track--not a Vermont back road:2thumbs:
bro d
PS: It is sprayed before the race begins--don't know how long it takes to dry?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Wrongo Mikie--they spray water for the burnout--I believe the spray that starts at the tree is VHT traction compound . This is on a sanctioned track--not a Vermont back road:2thumbs:
bro d
PS: It is sprayed before the race begins--don't know how long it takes to dry?

" wrongo " ….. re-read what I posted !!!!! …………IMHO 1200 + HP fuel dragsters would explode if the tires had more traction ……..Mikie :ohyea:

[Wildrice]

"spray the tracks 1st 100-200 ft. " …… What are they spraying it with ???? …………… I've seen them spray the staging area Before the timing lights to Promote wheel spin to warm the tires...…. but nothing on the actual track surface they race on …… Mike :ohyea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5wQajhGaeI So whatcha think??

[Wildrice]

" wrongo " ….. re-read what I posted !!!!! …………IMHO 1200 + HP fuel dragsters would explode if the tires had more traction ……..Mikie :ohyea:

How about a 10,000 HP Funny Car
http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/03/nhra-101-how-to-run-a-10000hp-nitromethane-car/

Read the entire article bro Mike. They measure the track adhesiveness with a type of board & a torgue measure to see how much pressure it requires to life the board from the track. Righto :-)

Plus Mikie--they all run Kendra tires---NOT :-)

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5wQajhGaeI So whatcha think??

Holy crap - I stand corrected ………" live and learn " - meaculpa, meaculpa …………… well my comment about 1200HP, should have signaled - I'm not exactly up to date on current Drag Racing practices :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: …. Mike :ohyea:

[Wildrice]

Holy crap - I stand corrected ………" live and learn " - meaculpa, meaculpa …………… well my comment about 1200HP, should have signaled - I'm not exactly up to date on current Drag Racing practices :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: …. Mike :ohyea:

It's all cool Mike---I've even been in error once this year--it'was the time I said I've never been wrong:chat:
bro d aka Darrell

The main issue of high powered cars & motorcycles that set records is in the "Clutch settings" If the clutch locked up they would all spin going nowhere. I've heard the top Fuel dragsters have up to 12 levels of clutch settings--just to go down the track in under 4 seconds. 1250+ HP yeah--currently they ware selling street cars with close to 1000 HP with a warranty. Actually one can buy a new Mustang supercharged with over 750 HP for $50,000.
Bye-bye-muscle car era:bdh:

[mackanigbg]

I have the Monster FI stage 2, cat delete with NO baffle and stock muffler. On my Spyder there is a huge difference in power between stock and stage 2 from Monster! I have tried the same set up but with a baffle in the cat delete pipe, and at least my Spyder runs worse just with that "small" limitation.
I know Steve says it works with the cat, without the cat and everything in between, but for me it´s obvious that with more fuel AND air into the engine there also need to be better breathing for the exhaust fumes as well.
Edit:
I have just tested with the cat and stock muffler and I must say that Steve of course is right, it's almost exactly the same power and response with the cat and stage 2 vs without the cat and no baffle!
He also showed me a dyno chart showing that fact.
With cat delete AND baffle I believe the performance surprisingly is worse. My conclusion is that the baffle is restricting the flow more than the cat does.

My Spyder definitely has better top range power without baffle and it´s more responsive and "on edge" :)
I don´t understand how some here can say it lacks low end torque with stage 1 or 2 and cat delete without baffle, mine is so much more powerful in all rpm´s and the dyno obviously shows 25 extra hp.
If I run on 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear at 3500-4500 rpm and open full throttle it pulls like a space shuttle! :D The same if I give half throttle and then suddenly give full throttle it has a very substantial extra pull which is not at all present in a stock Spyder.

[JS3535]

I only have stage 1, cat delete with can opener baffle & stock muffler. The very bottom end (taking off) lags for about 1 second (maybe less, haven’t timed it) then it comes alive & boils the tire off. Without the baffle & straight shot muffler the delay was much greater & more noticeable. That was both tested from dead stopped to WOT. Just my experience.

[MagYukon]

The holes in the air box lid for stage 2 make a noticeable intake sound at certain rpms. Since the top of the filter lid and the holes point up toward me, it's kind of like a honk in my face.
It has taken about 250 miles for me to get all the mapping changes working. It's not just the ECU receiving information and adjusting, I have to adjust my driving and shifting style.
Stage 1 has about the same hp and torque as stage 2 until about 6,500 then the dyno graphs start to separate. You have to be a seasoned rider to really feel the difference.
So, Stage 1 will put a smile on your face just fine with only a slight change in sound.
Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I just received back my ECU from Monster (not even put it back on the Spyder yet) and was surprised about the dimension of the holes in the air box lid. Just never realize how 2 holes of 35mm might be big :)

On your experience, is there any precaution to take regarding dust or water that might comes in ?

I know that I should be careful when washing it but I guess that riding in rain should not be a problem ?

Thanks

[fatboy]

looks like to me if you get water in there you tried really hard dust no problem the hoes outside of filter

[MagYukon]

Results !!!

I finally sent my ECU to Monster Fuel Injection for a stage 2 tune.

I reinstalled my ECU and Air filter lid yesterday and took a small test drive with it. Only about 40km.

As everyone says, it's really a good difference. No more hesitation when twisting the handle and just a good acceleration feeling.

you can fell that the torq is now all along the revolution and not just in high rev like before.

And regarding my concern about more noise coming from the air box holes, I can say that if there's a difference, I can barely hear it.

So far, I'm very happy that I finally got it done !

[Purple Guy]

I had the Stage 1 ECU upgrade & now Monster Fuel Injection did Stage 2 over the Winter. I can't hear any difference between Stage 1 or stage 2 or stock..

I just got mine back from upgrading from Stage 1 to Stage 2 and I emphasize Upgrade!
Though I was somewhat happy with the Stage 1, I did find that my Spyder (2014 RT-Ltd) ran rough & jerky on take off when it was cold.
I couldn't wipe the smile off my face after taking it for a rip after installing the ECU with the Stage 2 flash.
The Spyder runs sooo smooth and the throttle response just couldn't be better!!!
Some have mentioned that the addition of the 2 air holes added to the airbox lid was noisy, to be honest I never noticed any increase in volume. The test ride was with stock cat & muffle. (Cat Delete pipe is on the work bench ready to install) :yes:

[fatboy]

They have my wifes for her rt Getting stage one Also sent mine back up to get stage two for my f3

[mackanigbg]

As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance :)
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! 👍
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good :)'

[308gunner]

As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance :)
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good :)'

That's why the stage II is a better all around choice...you get more low to mid range performance...also...you have a better selection of exhaust to choose from without a loss of performance.

[RLS Exhaust]

RLS Exhaust has the Quietest cat delete on the market with my 2 stage baffle and exhaust packing .

[donhy]

RLS Exhaust has the Quietest cat delete on the market with my 2 stage baffle and exhaust packing .

Any low end hesitation with your cat delete ?

[308gunner]

Any low end hesitation with your cat delete ?

I have one of the RLS 2 stage cat delete with TWO baffles. very little to no hesitation..race proven!!!!
I also have a stage II tune. Its great...do you have a Stage I or II Tune on yours?...

[blacklightning]

As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance :)
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good :)'

This is good to hear. I am looking to upgrade my F3T with more power. I want the most tq. and hp. that I can get without being too loud. Right now I am 100% stock, but I just need a good direction to go. Don't want anything too loud, but do want as much umph as possible.

[donhy]

I have one of the RLS 2 stage cat delete with TWO baffles. very little to no hesitation..race proven!!!!
I also have a stage II tune. Its great...do you have a Stage I or II Tune on yours?...

I just have akrapovic exhaust with no ecu flash and original cat. Thinking of going with RLS cat delete and stage 1 flash and than compare stock exhaust with akrapovic.

[308gunner]

I just have akrapovic exhaust with no ecu flash and original cat. Thinking of going with RLS cat delete and stage 1 flash and than compare stock exhaust with akrapovic.

Okay....strong bit of advice ...before you do anything pertaining to your exhaust, do your map first...then look into the exhaust.

[donhy]

Okay....strong bit of advice ...before you do anything pertaining to your exhaust, do your map first...then look into the exhaust.

So you are saying ECU flash before cat delete / exhaust?

[308gunner]

So you are saying ECU flash before cat delete / exhaust?

Yes...do the ECU flash first.

[JS3535]

I would do the cat delete & flash at the same time. Just my opinion (learned from experiences)

[blacklightning]

Okay....strong bit of advice ...before you do anything pertaining to your exhaust, do your map first...then look into the exhaust.
That sounds strange. So are you saying that if you do the ECU remap, the computer will pick up the exhaust changes and make the appropriate changes? I actually thought you would need to give your bike specs before getting the ECU tune. Inquiring minds want to know.

[308gunner]

You can do it either way..but ..I wouldn't do so due to the fact of your motor running too lean because you're getting more air and not fuel...because you changed your exhaust...I agree with js535..the best way is to do them both at the same time...but if you're on a budget..do the flash first. that way you're not running lean prior to installing the map...my mechanic gave me this advice...

[Dennis in Lodi]

As I mentioned in my previous post I have the Monster stage 2 ECU flash and cat delete pipe without baffle on my Spyder and I am very very satisfied with the performance :)
When I tried the same setup but WITH the baffle I didn't like it because it felt restricted/ suffocated, especially when giving full throttle at any rpm's.
Today I decided I had to try the Monster stage 2 in combination with cat and stock muffler (= original stock factory setup) and I was truly surprised when I took the Spyder for a spin and realized it had just about the same performance but without the annoying and very loud exhaust note I had with the cat delete! ��
It really is a lot more enjoying to drive when not disturbing the neighbors or having to wear ear protection anymore. Especially since the performance is still very good :)'

I verified the same experience. I went back to all stock exhaust and was hard pressed to notice any power loss. Owning two ECUs, stage 1 and stage 2, I went back to stage 1 ECU flash, covered the holes in the filter cover that stage 2 required. I'm getting older, but I like the quiet exhaust of stock and have basically no power loss. There is a definite honking intake noise when the holes are open on the top of the air filter that is a modification requirement for stage 2 flash.
Stage 2 flash has a noticeable power advantage that really kicks in above 7,000 rpm. But with all the new lower power the flash delivers down low, I just don't rev that high anymore.
So just to confirm other posts, it DOES NOT MATTER which flash or which combination of exhaust, our Spyders adjust to all combinations.
Just wanted to share
Dennis
BTW, I am willing to part with my RLS delete and Spyder 1 Stainless exhaust. I have over $1,000 invested in my set up. It has a combination of three in line baffles. It can be reasonably quiet when need be, and has a good bark when you get on the power. $300 plus shipping OBO. PM me if interested for pics. This is a flashy set up of stainless and Chrome. Only fits RT, F3L and F3T.

[JS3535]

I currently have the cat delete with baffle & stock muffler, and stage 1. With the new mods I did (F3ST) it’s actually louder in my helmet. I think the exhaust echos off the ground & my windshield which I’m right in the middle of. I would really like to try a T or L muffler on mine to see how it sounds. I thought I was going to get away from running ear buds & just use helmet speakers but no such luck.

[CoolSpyder2014]

Hello, wanting to do this ecu mod. But have a few questions. How do tell if you have Generation 1 or 2, or other, with regards to the Rev limiter? And the mod for the air box, is that to make room for a modded ecm stage 2, or just air flow?

[guhn67]

Wildrice I too have the stage 2 remap with RLS Cat Delete with two additional baffles on a F3-S Daytona. This thing pulls like a rocket. However off the line absolutely NO tire spin. I had considered putting my Cat back on. Just to see if it is a back pressure issue.

[wmh9680]

What exactly is the cat delete and what does it do for you

[Bottomline2000]

Interested in how yours performs with the stock cat back on. I have a Daytona also with just the Akrapovic Sinister pipe. Am I running lean with no tune?No bark off the line but it picks up fast. I was expecting more off the line snap. Are you saying the stage 2 didnt help or could it be the baffles you're running? I'm considering the stage 2 and RLS cat delete.

[akbash]

Stage two with RLS cat delete with no added baffles and sinister performs and sounds awesome. Real deep tone and great decel sound. Lots of power from bottom to top. When you have sport mode on gets even better.

[AY4B]

Interested in how yours performs with the stock cat back on. I have a Daytona also with just the Akrapovic Sinister pipe. Am I running lean with no tune?No bark off the line but it picks up fast. I was expecting more off the line snap. Are you saying the stage 2 didnt help or could it be the baffles you're running? I'm considering the stage 2 and RLS cat delete.

Do it! It will make that Daytona a beast!

[wmh9680]

What exactly is the cat delete and how much/what does it do. Thanks Mike

[wmh9680]

I just got mine back from upgrading from Stage 1 to Stage 2 and I emphasize Upgrade!
Though I was somewhat happy with the Stage 1, I did find that my Spyder (2014 RT-Ltd) ran rough & jerky on take off when it was cold.
I couldn't wipe the smile off my face after taking it for a rip after installing the ECU with the Stage 2 flash.
The Spyder runs sooo smooth and the throttle response just couldn't be better!!!
Some have mentioned that the addition of the 2 air holes added to the airbox lid was noisy, to be honest I never noticed any increase in volume. The test ride was with stock cat & muffle. (Cat Delete pipe is on the work bench ready to install) :yes:

Got any pics od the air box lid with the holes in it? Thanks, Mike

[troop]

3/4" or 1"hole saw works great

[PMK]

3/4" or 1"hole saw works great

Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.

Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.

On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.

The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.

There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.

Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.

Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.

Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.

[troop]

Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.

Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.

On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.

The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.

There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.

Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.

Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.

Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.

This isn't my idea. This is where Monster/Wicked drill the holes for their stage 2 ECU flash. You'll have to ask them..

[PMK]

This isn't my idea. This is where Monster/Wicked drill the holes for their stage 2 ECU flash. You'll have to ask them..

Likely they are adding airflow for WOT, and surrendering some efficiency at all throttle setting and preferring obtaining maximum power. Would be very interesting to compare real world driving performance number of no holes in the airbox lid vs holes in the airbox lid at various throttle settings.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Interesting idea, but why would you convert a reasonably properly designed and flowed cold air intake, into a reduced ram air effect hot air intake.

Years ago, I disassembled the air duct and gave it a look, expecting true restrictions for engine intake air. Yes, the entire duct could be removed and an external duct routed outside the bodywork to shorten the length and assure cold air was captured. This though requires good placement of the air duct inlet away from turbulent air created by the bodywork.

On the 14 / 19 RT series the oem duct gathers incoming air at the front of the Spyder, in the upper edge of the left radiator duct. The outside inlet appears small and restrictive, but upon inspecting, there is an additional cold air inlet that supplements to obvious inlet.

The 2014 to 2019 RT series Spyder utilizes a quite large still airbox, adjacent to the throttle body. This is a good design. It allows incoming turbulent airflow, to slow slightly, but more importantly reduce turbulence and allow a straight airflow into the throttle body.

There is a large duct that crosses over to the air filter airbox. By design, the airfilter initiates straightening the airflow based on the cylindrical shape.

Most engine builders and tuners know and understand that air density will alter performance. Cold air is more dense per volume and produces better power. Adding a warm or heated air bypass as shown will make noise and sound powerful, but likely, and I may be wrong, will reduce power based on heated air.

Going further, if that new set of holes could utilize the flush honeycomb style air vent below the mirror, possibly it could keep a cooler air charge near the holes. For me, when my hands are cold, often I place them over the honeycomb vents at lights to warm them up. Based on that, it is apparent the air around the filter box is heated.

Years ago, while researching the oem air duct, I considered removing all of the intake duct, except the still airbox. Plan was to install a K&N filter onto the still airbox spigot. For various reasons, including heated air concerns, I did not make that mod.

Thank you, thank you, thank you PMK …… this is similar to what I have posted on other similar threads ….. However on the air turbulence thing, on the Spyder it occurs BEFORE the AIR filter element which imho calms the air significantly ….. I have pics in one of my Albums ( see Shock re-locators on RT 13+ ) of what my Air Intake looks like on my 2014 RT...… Because I wanted to be able to re-move my Frunk easily ( and often ) I built my new intake with a ( sort of ) SLIP Joint..... I can re-move my Frunk and then replace it in about 15 minutes. … My intake air comes from Outside the Spyder and is at Ambient temp.... good luck all …… Mike :ohyea:

[PMK]

Thank you, thank you, thank you PMK …… this is similar to what I have posted on other similar threads ….. However on the air turbulence thing, on the Spyder it occurs BEFORE the AIR filter element which imho calms the air significantly ….. I have pics in one of my Albums ( see Shock re-locators on RT 13+ ) of what my Air Intake looks like on my 2014 RT...… Because I wanted to be able to re-move my Frunk easily ( and often ) I built my new intake with a ( sort of ) SLIP Joint..... I can re-move my Frunk and then replace it in about 15 minutes. … My intake air comes from Outside the Spyder and is at Ambient temp.... good luck all …… Mike :ohyea:

Yes a filter can often straighten or align airflow. The Spyder design is not bad but air enters the airbox from the side. Would be better from the end.

As for the primary duct, as curved as it is, the cross sections are adequate for the engines oem setup. Add to this it is true cold air induction at a good location free of low pressures and that adds efficiency. One downside of the design on 14 to 19 RT series is the reversing fans.

The secondary duct and still airbox serve to smooth turbulence and muffle intake drone. I did have a couple mods I still plan to make regarding the intake tract, just time has not allowed it yet.

[rbflapjack]

I'm a total newbie when it comes to ECU mods but as an engineer (chemical, not mechanical) I know that for most things, it is always a trade-off. Therefore, what is the trade-off with these mods that give me better hp? Fuel efficiency? Engine Life? More frequent Maintenance? etc.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm a total newbie when it comes to ECU mods but as an engineer (chemical, not mechanical) I know that for most things, it is always a trade-off. Therefore, what is the trade-off with these mods that give me better hp? Fuel efficiency? Engine Life? More frequent Maintenance? etc.

HP & or torque always comes with a price..... When you increase the power output of a combustion engine, there is going to be more stress placed on every moving part in that engine. And you don't have to be an engineer to figure this out. … I believe from reading many articles that the Rotax 1330 engine in OEM form is under stressed. So a 20 to 25 hp increase is well within the original design parameters to handle that amount of increase.... back in the day, you could take a Chevy 350 small block that in OEM form put out maybe 285 HP and bump it up 200 or 300 HP using different mechanicals. ….. Those engines were stressed way more than what Monster does for the 1330, and if the Chevy's were done correctly they functioned for a long time. …. IMHO I wouldn't be concerned about shortening the life of the 1330 w/ ecu mods from Monster …… good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

[timd35]

I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?

[troop]

I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?

It sounds like you'll need to purchase the flashes separately (stage 1 = $390/stage 2 = $510), in addition to the $300 hardware piece. This will allow you to use the device to flash between stage 1 or 2 and stock. That said, the stage 2 requires your air cleaner cover to be drilled. Might not want to use a stock tune with this.

[308gunner]

I was also looking to do a Stage 2 on my 2019 F3-S and I see Monster has a new handheld coming out soon. Thoughts? Wait for the handheld or send in the ECU?

You're better off mailing in the ECU with the cover. So that way your ECU profile stage II and factory settings is already on record. When the hand programmer comes out..they just send out the programmer with your profile on it...if you decide to purchase it....this is actually the better way to go...

[308gunner]

It sounds like you'll need to purchase the flashes separately (stage 1 = $390/stage 2 = $510), in addition to the $300 hardware piece. This will allow you to use the device to flash between stage 1 or 2 and stock. That said, the stage 2 requires your air cleaner cover to be drilled. Might not want to use a stock tune with this.

If he wants to switch from stage II to stock he can just purchase another airlid and keep it in his garage..and switch it when he changes tunes or go back to stock. they are only about 20.00 bucks on cheap cycle parts.com . I have a spare one in my garage...

[fatboy]

there is no need to switch cap

[ctpeterson0412]

were can i see the dyno results...