Battery electrical leak

[nealperkins]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!

Well unfortunately a CHARGED reading on a Tender or Maintainer is not a guarantee that the Battery in question actually has a Full charge.... I have had false readings on a few batteries I have had on a Maintainer ………. someone will explain the Volt meter thing …… Mike :ohyea:

[Lew L]

A test light will do the trick. Un-hook the negative side of the battery and put one side of the test light ( usually the one with the clip ) on it. Then touch the probe/lighted light end to the negative cable end. If the battery lights---- you have a leak somewhere. These test lights are very useful if you're looking for a hot wire ( ignition on or off ) on your car or spyder.

Lew L

[Easy Rider]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!

Wrong conclusion.
All batteries eventually wear out.
Keeping it on a tender will only extend the time to death, not eliminate it.

If you think your battery is bad, then it probably IS.

After you get a new one, the charging voltage of the tender should be checked.
A good float voltage is somewhere around 13.2 volts.

The new battery should be fully charged BEFORE installing it.

[trikermutha]

I agree with Mike- Dont trust the battery Tender either. I would unplug and plug back in at times just to be sure its working.

Mine has looked good showing green but when it was time the battery was dead.

You can always take the battery to a autozone and they can test it for you too.

[DGoebel]

A test light will do the trick. Un hook the negative side of the battery and put one side of the test light ( usually the one with the clip ) on it. Then touch the probe/lighted light end to the negative cable end. If the battery lights---- you have a leak somewhere. Th Lew Lese terst lights are very useful if you looking for a hot wire ( ignition on or off ) on your car or spyder.

Lew L
Lew, What's a "Lew Lese terst lights"? Is that an LED test light or something different?

[hypurone]

A test light will do the trick. Un hook the negative side of the battery and put one side of the test light ( usually the one with the clip ) on it. Then touch the probe/lighted light end to the negative cable end. If the battery lights---- you have a leak somewhere. Th Lew Lese terst lights are very useful if you looking for a hot wire ( ignition on or off ) on your car or spyder. Lew L

There can be "draws" that are enough to light a test light and still drain a battery. I would use a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) personally....

OP, just because the battery shows a "full" charge doesn't mean that it isn't what we call a "surface charge". While it "looks good" it will fail under a load test (like when you go to actually crank it) due to things like sulfation, specific gravity reduction etc... If you are sure your connections are tight and the "maintainer" is working correctly, take the battery to an auto parts place and have it load tested. It most likely will fail....

[Easy Rider]

There can be "draws" that are NOT enough to light a test light and still drain a battery..

I think you left out a "not" there. ;)

[UtahPete]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!

Why do you think that?

[UtahPete]

Electrical 'leak' and failing battery are two very different things.

[Easy Rider]

Electrical 'leak' and failing battery are two very different things.

Not to a novice they aren't. They look almost identical without some simple tests.

AND.....the failing battery often "self" discharges at a really high rate.....which is essentially a "leak".

[UtahPete]

Not to a novice they aren't. They look almost identical without some simple tests.

AND.....the failing battery often "self" discharges at a really high rate.....which is essentially a "leak".

Which is why it would be more helpful for him to explain what the symptoms are rather than saying he thinks he has a leak.

[Lew L]

Lew, What's a "Lew Lese terst lights"? Is that an LED test light or something different?

No it isn't. My left pinky finger hits the wrong key and words get transposed, inserted, ect. I'm suggesting a simple test light, inexpensive at any auto parts store. Again--- they are very useful.

But thanks for pointing out my poor typing------ I've corrected it in the original post so as not to confuse anyone.

Lew L

[Lew L]

There can be "draws" that are enough to light a test light and still drain a battery. I would use a DVOM (Digital Volt/Ohm Meter) personally....



If it lights the test light even a little, current is flowing. Yes I have a $100 Fluke VOM------ but for the simple stuff I use a $5 test probe and it works great.
Next go to the fuse block. Using the fast and easy to use test/light probe and look for current flow. EASY to locate which circuit is draining the current.

[Bfromla]

FYIit may be any combination of things :lecturef_smilie:Batteries don't like the cold either. A good load test is in order & maybe a full charge not just a maintainer. The battery proably could use some cycling if been sitting too long, made to be used not sit is another helpful aspect of a load test & by all means good time to clean terminals & connections ,just for reassurance :2thumbs:

[UtahPete]

If it lights the test light even a little, current is flowing. Yes I have a $100 Fluke VOM------ but for the simple stuff I use a $5 test probe and it works great.
Next go to the fuse block. Using the fast and easy to use test/light probe and look for current flow. EASY to locate which circuit is draining the current.

Lew, doesn't the test light probe just indicate the presence of voltage? Not sure you can check for current with one of those. Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!
First of all, there are electronics on a Spyder that draw power all the time, even with the ignition turned off. If your battery runs down enough to not start the bike after about 2 to 3 weeks then you probably have a battery that is about to die. If it takes 6 weeks plus to draw down enough to not start, the battery is probably OK.

As others have said, keeping it on a tender does not guarantee that it will stay it top notch condition. The main benefit of the tender is to replenish the charge that all the electronics sap away while the bike is sitting not doing anything.

[Lew L]

Lew, doesn't the test prove just indicate the presence of voltage? Not sure you can check for current with one of those. Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

Hi Pete,
If the light on the probe lights up-- current ( even a little ) is flowing. If we'er talking one or 5 milli amps, it might not light up. The quality VOM is the tool for that. The electrical potential ( voltage ) is there but not flowing ( current or amperage) unless there is a closed circuit with a load( A light, clock, computer, ect.) .

Neal,
Just a thought here. You have ALOT of electrical things added to your :spyder2:. Consider checking all connections and wires for chaffing

The last time I used the light/probe I was installing Muth signal mirrors on my wife car. Used a wire diagram from Chevy and checked it with the pointy probe in a few seconds. Easy Peasy.

There must be an electrical genius on the forum who can explain it more simply than I.

This problem COULD boil down to a loose battery connection. It has happened to our :spyder2:'s many times as queried about on this forum. I believe I would start with a quality VOM and measure battery voltage with the motor running and then not running. The OP's spyder seems too new to have a bad battery, but heat and vibration kill our 12 volt batteries. I still have the original in my :spyder2: and just replaced the battery in my 2006 Magnum RT. Yes, 12 years on the original battery:yikes:

Hope winter is being good to you guys in southern Utah. We are about to get blasted again. Feet of snow is predicted.

Lew L

[UtahPete]

Hi Pete,
If the light on the probe lights up-- current ( even a little ) is flowing. If we'er talking one or 5 milli amps, it might not light up. The quality VOM is the tool for that. The electrical potential ( voltage ) is there but not flowing ( current or amperage) unless there is a closed circuit with a load( A light, clock, computer, ect.) .

The last time I used the light/probe I was installing Muth signal mirrors on my wife car. Used a wire diagram from Chevy and checked it with the pointy probe in a few seconds. Easy Peasy.
There must be an electrical genius on the forum who can explain it more simply than I.

Now I get it. You have the test light leads in series with the circuit. I hadn't thought of doing that, but it does make sense.

[locomotion40]

Well, I 'think' I have one. How would I check this with a volt meter?
I guess the battery could be shot but, it is kept on a battery tender full time so, that 'should not' be the issue.
Thanks!

How old is the battery? 3 years is about the max to expect. Once a battery is shot, no amount of charging will bring it back to life.

[nealperkins]

Sorry for the delay. The battery is only 1 year old, maintained on the charger. But, it is a bit slow to turn over, even for a second crank when warm. I’ll have it checked but, I will just replace it if any weakness shows up...it is not worth getting stranded!
Thanks for all the good info!

[UtahPete]

Sorry for the delay. The battery is only 1 year old, maintained on the charger. But, it is a bit slow to turn over, even for a second crank when warm. I’ll have it checked but, I will just replace it if any weakness shows up...it is not worth getting stranded!
Thanks for all the good info!

That's more likely a bad connection, not a bad battery, I think.

[Bob Denman]

Has anybody asked about how many riding seasons that battery has faced?
If iut's more than three: there's a good chance that it's ready to be recycled.

[trikermutha]

How warm is the oil? I turned mine over in - 30 deg weather and yes it was slow but it started. And my battery is 5 years old.

Bike will turn over slow when oil is a bit thick too.

[Little Blue]

I would remove the battery and then have it 'Load Tested". Auto Zone will do this for FREE. Good Luck :thumbup:

[Easy Rider]

Lew, doesn't the test light probe just indicate the presence of voltage? Not sure you can check for current with one of those. Maybe I'm not understanding your post.

You make an "open" in the circuit in question, either at the fuse of by disconnecting a wire, and then insert the test light in series.

[UtahPete]

You make an "open" in the circuit in question, either at the fuse of by disconnecting a wire, and then insert the test light in series.

Yes, I realized later that is what he meant. Novel use of a test light. Thanks.

[UtahPete]

Sorry for the delay. The battery is only 1 year old, maintained on the charger. But, it is a bit slow to turn over, even for a second crank when warm. I’ll have it checked but, I will just replace it if any weakness shows up...it is not worth getting stranded!
Thanks for all the good info!

Let us know how things turn out, so we can add to our understanding of these types of issues. Thanks

[Gordy]

A test light will do the trick. Un-hook the negative side of the battery and put one side of the test light ( usually the one with the clip ) on it. Then touch the probe/lighted light end to the negative cable end. If the battery lights---- you have a leak somewhere. These test lights are very useful if you're looking for a hot wire ( ignition on or off ) on your car or spyder.

Lew Lyou are right and if the test light lights up then start pulling fuses

[wingit3611]

Does any one know how many milli amp should be drawn when bike is turned off?

[UtahPete]

Does any one know how many milli amp should be drawn when bike is turned off?

I think pretty much zero. Maybe DESS draws a little, but every other load should be pretty much isolated from the charging circuit, I would think. I've had my bike sitting for 2 months or more without a battery maintainer hooked up and the battery was a little down but always has enough to start the bike.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I think pretty much zero. Maybe DESS draws a little, but every other load should be pretty much isolated from the charging circuit, I would think. I've had my bike sitting for 2 months or more without a battery maintainer hooked up and the battery was a little down but always has enough to start the bike.
Actually, from what I see on the wiring diagram the DESS is fed from the ignition switch. The ECM, cluster, and radio get power full time but I've no idea how much.

[Lew L]

Just a simple question for the electrical engineer's here:

Putting a VOM in series with the negative terminal of the battery and the neg. cable ( set on amps of course) should give a reading. Ignition off-- VOM on Milliamps.

Just want some input before I try it.
Lew L

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just a simple question for the electrical engineer's here:

Putting a VOM in series with the negative terminal of the battery and the neg. cable ( set on amps of course) should give a reading. Ignition off-- VOM on Milliamps.

Just want some input before I try it.
Lew L

Just don't turn the ignition on or hit the starter. You'll most likely fry your VOM, or at least blow its fuse!! :lecturef_smilie: It'll be interesting to get an idea what the current draw is.0

[UtahPete]

Just a simple question for the electrical engineer's here:

Putting a VOM in series with the negative terminal of the battery and the neg. cable ( set on amps of course) should give a reading. Ignition off-- VOM on Milliamps.

Just want some input before I try it.
Lew L

I would test the circuit draw at the positive terminal, I think. Start at the highest amp range then work down from there.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I would test the circuit draw at the positive terminal, I think. Start at the highest amp range then work down from there.
Either terminal will work equally well.

[Machinegunner]

Spread some newspapers under the Spyder so you can see where the electricity is leaking.

[Bart]

I think if it's more than 3Ma you have a parasitic draw. I'm just going off the top of my head as a standard.

[Bart]

I just went through my manual. 10-20 mA draw is within normal. Sorry.

[Lew L]

Either terminal will work equally well.

I'm not trying to start a tire pressure/ tire size/ oil brand, ect. war here but:

Removing the negative side is a lot safer on a neg ground vehicle. If you testing with the positive side un done and touch any grounded metal with a load---- you may fry a meter set on milliamps. Always start with the highest ampere setting on the meter .

Lew L

[Bart]

definitely the negative!: :yikes: shemademe_smilie:

[UtahPete]

I'm not trying to start a tire pressure/ tire size/ oil brand, ect. war here but:

Removing the negative side is a lot safer on a neg ground vehicle. If you testing with the positive side un done and touch any grounded metal with a load---- you may fry a meter set on milliamps. Always start with the highest ampere setting on the meter Lew L

Lew, it doesn't matter to me which side of the circuit is used for this test.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Removing the negative side is a lot safer on a neg ground vehicle.
:agree: I was thinking about that when I responded but I just wanted Pete to be aware that as far the flow of electricity goes it makes no difference which side is used.

[Lew L]

Lew, it doesn't matter to me which side of the circuit is used for this test.

Hi Pete,
Just looking out for your( and others )safety. I have an expensive VOM and I wouldn't want to fry it. When the + cable is removed first-- any touching of a conducting material will cause a direct short.

Hope your winter is treating you well. We are getting blasted now and another storm tomorrow, Oh boy.

Lew L

PS: Check out Bart in this thread. Is he close to you guys???

[UtahPete]

Hi Pete, Check out Bart in this thread. Is he close to you guys???

Kaysville is north of Salt Lake City. About 50 miles from Oakley. We're at our winter 'retreat' in southern Utah, where we are getting the cold but at least no snow.

[UtahPete]

:agree: I was thinking about that when I responded but I just wanted Pete to be aware that as far the flow of electricity goes it makes no difference which side is used.

I did know that. I was just thinking that ammeters are usually wired in on the positive leg of a circuit. Thanks fellas!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I did know that. I was just thinking that ammeters are usually wired in on the positive leg of a circuit. Thanks fellas!
With US automotive wiring methods, in general you would want to do that if your measurement of interest is a specific electrical load, if the ammeter is wired in securely or permanently. The US standard is to switch the load on the positive or power side. With Japanese vehicles, and most of the circuits in the Spyder, the controls for power to a specific load are usually on the the negative or ground side of the load. In that case you might want to put the ammeter in the ground side as it usually is specific to that load and not shared with other loads.

I've never figured out why the Japanese like to switch the ground side and not the power side in vehicle and electronics wiring. You sure don't want to do that with house wiring and voltage!

In the case of the OP's question, we're looking at a very temporary situation so safety is the overriding consideration.

[Easy Rider]

I would test the circuit draw at the positive terminal, I think. Start at the highest amp range then work down from there.

Which terminal you use makes no difference......except that if you make a klutz move and short something out, the negative side is MUCH less likely to cause any damage.

And yes, you always should start with an AMPS range and work your way down.