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Winnex3
01-20-2019, 04:49 PM
168833 shouldn’t 1 be min and 2 be max and so I Check my oil and this is what it looks like 168835 looks low if you ask me

trikermutha
01-20-2019, 04:55 PM
This was posted by BRP CAre awhile back..

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?73737-Proper-Oil-Level-Verification-Procedure-on-1330-engined-Spyders&highlight=oil+fill

Sarge707
01-20-2019, 05:07 PM
168833 shouldn’t 1 be min and 2 be max and so I Check my oil and this is what it looks like 168835 looks low if you ask me

They do look reversed and The only valid oil check is to run the 9 miles or more and then idle 30 seconds and check. Th cold level could very well look like that?

Winnex3
01-20-2019, 05:14 PM
This was posted by BRP CAre awhile back..

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?73737-Proper-Oil-Level-Verification-Procedure-on-1330-engined-Spyders&highlight=oil+fill
Thank you that’s a good post I will wait to the weather gets warmer and then take It for a spin then Check and see where it is but it still seems a little low where it’s at now

Tslepebull
01-20-2019, 05:20 PM
168833 shouldn’t 1 be min and 2 be max and so I Check my oil and this is what it looks like 168835 looks low if you ask me

Apparently you are looking at the instructions for the Australian version. Yes the numbers on the owners manual look bass ackwards

trikermutha
01-20-2019, 05:24 PM
Check it when per the post thread. Then recheck the level may look low now and will change after you get it warmed up..

cueman
01-20-2019, 05:27 PM
168833 shouldn’t 1 be min and 2 be max and so I Check my oil and this is what it looks like 168835 looks low if you ask me

Yes, I saw that in the manual and thought it was mistake. Was your bike warmed up or cold checked? cueman

Leland
01-20-2019, 05:37 PM
This was posted by BRP CAre awhile back..

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?73737-Proper-Oil-Level-Verification-Procedure-on-1330-engined-Spyders&highlight=oil+fill

This is not a good thing to post! This is NOT a ACE 1330 engine. An ACE 1330 engine has a very complex oil sump system with many sump pumps. The ACE 900 engine is not even close by comparison. Winnex3 posted the correct date.

1.) I have two questions, what is going on in Mexico, do they have a Quality Control department?

2.) Why did the Dealer deliver your bike without checking the engine sump level? If your engine or gearbox ran low on oil it could seize up and lead to a fatal accident. I guess your life means little, only the small amount of cash that the dealer makes on these deals. It has been reported that dealers make as little as $400.00 profit per bike. What is the incentive to do a setup and actually inspect the mandatory lubricant inspections at the dealership, it appear to be NONE.

I make my live as an airworthiness safety inspector. If my job did not exist then many more people would be harmed each year in aviation accidents. I'm seeing a pattern developing here with this super low cost Ryker and the fact that it's being built in a 3rd world country (Mexico). It appears the Quality Control is not up to standards. I hope BRP is reading this posting!

Winnex3
01-20-2019, 05:42 PM
Yes, I saw that in the manual and thought it was mistake. Was your bike warmed up or cold checked? cueman
Cold I know it should look a little low just didn’t think it should look that low

Leland
01-20-2019, 05:44 PM
This engine is derived from the snowmobile engine. You must be able to determine correct engine oil level when the engine is cold on a snowmobile. It is not a Spyder ACE 1330 engine which must be check hot and after 10 minutes of idle to allow the sump pumps to evacuate the sump areas.

Do not confuse this man. Follow the instruction that came with the engine. It can be check when the engine is cold. It is clearly low on oil!

Michaelscs
01-20-2019, 05:47 PM
Thank you that’s a good post I will wait to the weather gets warmer and then take It for a spin then Check and see where it is but it still seems a little low where it’s at now

That procedure is for the 1330 - F3's & RT's. Sarge707 has posted the correct method for the Ryker.
Min and Max are defiantly backwards in the manual!

Michaelscs
01-20-2019, 05:51 PM
Do not confuse this man. Follow the instruction that came with the engine. It can be check when the engine is cold. It is clearly low on oil!

Not according to the manual! Check after running the engine!

trikermutha
01-20-2019, 05:54 PM
This is not a good thing to post! This is NOT a ACE 1330 engine. An ACE 1330 engine has a very complex oil sump system with many sump pumps. The ACE 900 engine is not even close by comparison. Winnex3 posted the correct date.

1.) I have two questions, what is going on in Mexico, do they have a Quality Control department?

2.) Why did the Dealer deliver your bike without checking the engine sump level? If your engine or gearbox ran low on oil it could seize up and lead to a fatal accident. I guess your life means little, only the small amount of cash that the dealer makes on these deals. It has been reported that dealers make as little as $400.00 profit per bike. What is the incentive to do a setup and actually inspect the mandatory lubricant inspections at the dealership, it appear to be NONE.

I make my live as an airworthiness safety inspector. If my job did not exist then many more people would be harmed each year in aviation accidents. I'm seeing a pattern developing here with this super low cost Ryker and the fact that it's being built in a 3rd world country (Mexico). It appears the Quality Control is not up to standards. I hope BRP is reading this posting!

Like I was suppose to know it was for a RYKer.. Thanks for your POST!

frj322
01-20-2019, 05:55 PM
@Leland, the incentive to do a correct setup is that the dealer is charging US as customers. A few weeks ago I asked for a quote from my local dealer and got a $400 freight add on (for a bike I was sitting on while we were talking). This was to "cover shipment from the factory to the dealer". Also quoted a $411 charge for "prep" this was (quoted directly from the sales manager) "unit assembly, fluid checking and things like that". I did not buy that day. People like us, who made our living inspecting and repairing vehicles (whatever the type) understand the gravity of this situation and also understand, even though the mistake is on BRP, responsibility falls on the selling dealer and the tech who flagged the time to "prep" the vehicle.

trikermutha
01-20-2019, 05:56 PM
Thank you that’s a good post I will wait to the weather gets warmer and then take It for a spin then Check and see where it is but it still seems a little low where it’s at now

Sorry did not know that your question was for a Ryker..Disregard my post

Michaelscs
01-20-2019, 06:07 PM
@ Leland - For your information, the correct procedure for checking the oil in a snowmobile with the Ace 600 or 900 engine is also with the engine warmed up and than let it idle for 30 seconds!

Leland
01-20-2019, 06:41 PM
Great news, thank you.

I don't own a Ski-doo with this engine. This makes sense, warm and a bit of a rest.

The basic oil level can be verified while cold to make sure that some oil is in the sump prior to light-off, but finial checking would be require after heat-up to allow for oil expansion.

The point I'm trying to make is the engine is far less sophisticated with regards to oil sumps compared to the ACE 1330. I'm trying to help this man get a feel for how to check his oil. Unfortunately someone by mistake posted the ACE 1130 procedure.

It will be interesting to see what the level comes up too after the correct procedure has been followed.

Winnex3
01-20-2019, 07:15 PM
This engine is derived from the snowmobile engine. You must be able to determine correct engine oil level when the engine is cold on a snowmobile. It is not a Spyder ACE 1330 engine which must be check hot and after 10 minutes of idle to allow the sump pumps to evacuate the sump areas.

Do not confuse this man. Follow the instruction that came with the engine. It can be check when the engine is cold. It is clearly low on oil!
Thank you that is what I thought it just looks a little to low I have Checked three times and still the same results

guzzihack
01-20-2019, 07:24 PM
I always like it (sarcasm) when they make the dip stick about the same color as the oil.

Coke

Michaelscs
01-20-2019, 07:34 PM
Great news, thank you.

I don't own a Ski-doo with this engine. This makes sense, warm and a bit of a rest.

The basic oil level can be verified while cold to make sure that some oil is in the sump prior to light-off, but finial checking would be require after heat-up to allow for oil expansion.

The point I'm trying to make is the engine is far less sophisticated with regards to oil sumps compared to the ACE 1330. I'm trying to help this man get a feel for how to check his oil. Unfortunately someone by mistake posted the ACE 1130 procedure.

It will be interesting to see what the level comes up too after the correct procedure has been followed.

Yes, and the point I'm trying to make is you also made a mistake saying "It can be check when the engine is cold. It is clearly low on oil!"
We won't know if he's low on oil until the correct procedure has been followed!

cueman
01-20-2019, 07:35 PM
Cold I know it should look a little low just didn’t think it should look that low

Hey Winnex3, I know where my oil was on the dip stick when hot as per manual. Tomorrow afternoon I will check it cold and compare it to yours. My body aches too much to do it right now, but I will do it. Hold off running it for now just to be safe. cueman

KID Ryker
01-20-2019, 07:40 PM
168833 shouldn’t 1 be min and 2 be max and so I Check my oil and this is what it looks like 168835 looks low if you ask me That were mine was it's low

Leland
01-20-2019, 07:51 PM
Winnex3

I'm sure you're aware of this fact, but I thought it might be helpful just in case....

It would be "bad practice" to just warm-up the engine to check the oil. Combustion gases that bypass the piston rings will contaminate your fresh oil with water vapor that will condense within your new engine leading to corrosion. Wait until you plan to go on a ride of many miles to make sure the oil get to full operating temperature and boils off any contamination from the startup and cold running process. There is no way to avoid this condensation of water vapor within the engine. Short rides can greatly shorten engine life. BMW bikes have been known to have this problem since adventure bike are operated by some really tough humans in super cold weather.

As your aware, for every gallon of fuel burned nearly a gallon of water is produce., thus you see the steam emitted from exhaust pipes on cold day.The German dirigibles of the 1930 era condensed the exhausted gasses from the diesel propulsion engines and stored the captured water onboard to maintain correct ballast.

Winnex3
01-20-2019, 08:04 PM
Winnex3

I'm sure you're aware of this fact, but I thought it might be helpful just in case....

It would be "bad practice" to just warm-up the engine to check the oil. Combustion gases that bypass the piston rings will contaminate your fresh oil with water vapor that will condense within your new engine leading to corrosion. Wait until you plan to go on a ride of many miles to make sure the oil get to full operating temperature and boils off any contamination from the startup and cold running process. There is no way to avoid this condensation of water vapor within the engine. Short rides can greatly shorten engine life. BMW bikes have been known to have this problem since adventure bike are operated by some really tough humans in super cold weather.

As your aware, for every gallon of fuel burned nearly a gallon of water is produce., thus you see the steam emitted from exhaust pipes on cold day.The German dirigibles of the 1930 era condensed the exhausted gasses from the diesel propulsion engines and stored the captured water onboard to maintain correct ballast.
Thank I know what your talking about but you just explained it much better than I could do a lot of people don’t know this my buddy says I’m crazy cause he keeps his bike in my garage and comes over now and then to start it I tell him you are doing more damage than good

WilliamTRyker
01-20-2019, 10:50 PM
The German dirigibles of the 1930 era condensed the exhausted gasses from the diesel propulsion engines and stored the captured water onboard to maintain correct ballast.

OK, this thread has just turned into a TIL (Today I Learned). :thumbup:

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 11:25 AM
So I go back to the dealer and show them this pic 168842 and they tell me this is normal when cold I just think it’s to low I don’t even want to start it right now because it is-12 out to let it warm up like they say to do I know it will come up some but not that much please let me know what you guys think

Michaelscs
01-21-2019, 11:56 AM
So I go back to the dealer and show them this pic 168842 and they tell me this is normal when cold I just think it’s to low I don’t even want to start it right now because it is-12 out to let it warm up like they say to do I know it will come up some but not that much please let me know what you guys think

I wouldn't worry about it until you are able to get the engine up to normal operating temp. You have oil there, and I'm sure it will come up to at least the minimum after the engine is warmed up. Definitely no concern about engine damage! If you add oil now you might overfill and it would suck to try and drain some.

cueman
01-21-2019, 12:01 PM
Hey Winnex3, I just went out and checked the engine oil and it is like yours. At operating temperature it is half way up between the min and max line on the dip stick. This check was done on a 37 degree day so even though I rode it several miles I never heard the fan kick on. So IMO it is down 1/4 qt. at worse case, but if warmed up to the point of the cooling fans kicking on, maybe that would take it up to full. These are some strange machines! cueman

Leland
01-21-2019, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't worry about it until you are able to get the engine up to normal operating temp. You have oil there, and I'm sure it will come up to at least the minimum after the engine is warmed up. Definitely no concern about engine damage! If you add oil now you might overfill and it would suck to try and drain some.

@Michaelscs I completely agree, no need to worry about damaging your engine at the oil level now indicating.


@Winnex3 When it warms up outside take it for a 20 mile ride and follow the instructions as per the manufacturer description exactly to measure you current level set. You can then top it off with fresh oil. Just pickup a quart of BRP oil and wait for the weather to warm. Relax your mind and dream about how much fun you gonna have this spring on the Ryder.

One thought coolant temperature and oil temperature will not coincide unless you take the bike for a good hard ride. It takes a long time to get the engine block/head/transmission up to temperature, at that point oil temperature will stabilize. Don't make the mistake of just idling the bike to get the coolant temperature in the green/operating range and expect the oil to be hot. Even a short ride of a few miles may not get the oil hot.

It if remember correctly from your screen shot the min/max amount of oil on the High/Low part of your oil stick represented 0.5 liter, or a little over 2 cups of oil. I don't know the quantity of oil needed to fill the sump, but I would guess perhaps 2 qts.???? You maybe approx 2 cups low at max, but that leaves plenty of oil for a short ride. Go look at the specs for your engine in the owner's manual check the max oil that can be load into the sump, check to see the min/max represented by the indicator lines on the stick. You can infer the amount of oil that will be or is need to top it off. This may give you some piece of mind.

Leland
01-21-2019, 01:53 PM
@Winnex3

You need to address the low oil Service Bulletin #2 from BRP regarding inspection of the oil level in the main gearbox. Don't forget to get the dealership out to you house and have this accomplished free of charge.

You have inspected the main engine oil sump now and it appear to be low, now move onto the gearbox oil sump level. This box is not temperature dependent, in other words when you pull the inspection plug oil should be at a level that just reaches the lower point of the inspection hole even is the gearbox is cold. I may vary slightly, but you want to keep it full. Now we have reports of many gearboxes found below full after shipment from the factory.

I would suggest that after a few hundred miles you drain this gearbox oil and put in fresh oil to get the break-in swarth out of the gearbox. Do that this summer when the gearbox is really hot. Drain it within a few minutes of shutdown, let it drain overnight.

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 03:04 PM
Hey Winnex3, I just went out and checked the engine oil and it is like yours. At operating temperature it is half way up between the min and max line on the dip stick. This check was done on a 37 degree day so even though I rode it several miles I never heard the fan kick on. So IMO it is down 1/4 qt. at worse case, but if warmed up to the point of the cooling fans kicking on, maybe that would take it up to full. These are some strange machines! cueman thanks cueman that makes me feel better :)

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 03:08 PM
@Winnex3

You need to address the low oil Service Bulletin #2 from BRP regarding inspection of the oil level in the main gearbox. Don't forget to get the dealership out to you house and have this accomplished free of charge.

You have inspected the main engine oil sump now and it appear to be low, now move onto the gearbox oil sump level. This box is not temperature dependent, in other words when you pull the inspection plug oil should be at a level that just reaches the lower point of the inspection hole even is the gearbox is cold. I may vary slightly, but you want to keep it full. Now we have reports of many gearboxes found below full after shipment from the factory.

I would suggest that after a few hundred miles you drain this gearbox oil and put in fresh oil to get the break-in swarth out of the gearbox. Do that this summer when the gearbox is really hot. Drain it within a few minutes of shutdown, let it drain overnight. I will definitely will check that too the dealership got that memo the day before I picked mine up they said they checked it but I will check to be sure

cueman
01-21-2019, 03:10 PM
IMO it would be a good idea to drain and replace all oils in engine, trans., and final drive at a couple hundred miles for peace of mind. You could also document oz. per cavity drained for future records. I realize not all oil will drain out but you may have a good base line. ;) cueman

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 03:27 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice I don’t plan on running this until I get back from vacation I leave this Friday and hopefully it will be warmer when I get back I just want to check everything before I do run it around I like to do things my self I leaned a long time ago never trust the dealership I have had in the past dealership not this one but other ones forgetting to put oil cap on forgot to rotate tires forgot to put the inner fender back on I bought a motorcycle one time that when I got on the highway it did not handle right come to find out the rear tire was very low I had a dealership ship installed my rear tire on one of my bikes the wrong Direction just saying never take anything for granted always Check this stuff your self for peace of mind

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 03:29 PM
IMO it would be a good idea to drain and replace all oils in engine, trans., and final drive at a couple hundred miles for peace of mind. You could also document oz. per cavity drained for future records. I realize not all oil will drain out but you may have a good base line. ;) cueman I feel cueman you are absolutely right on this one

Tslepebull
01-21-2019, 05:58 PM
thanks cueman that makes me feel better :)

Winnex, I had already done the required oil level assment on mine using the procedure shown in the owners manual last week and mine took about 1/4 quart. Today I went out and pulled the dipstick cold it looked exactly like the image you posted. then went on a 50 mile ride and came back and went through the specified check procedure. My oil level was exactly at the top of the checkered section on the dip stick (full). I think you are ok.

Winnex3
01-21-2019, 07:46 PM
Winnex, I had already done the required oil level assment on mine using the procedure shown in the owners manual last week and mine took about 1/4 quart. Today I went out and pulled the dipstick cold it looked exactly like the image you posted. then went on a 50 mile ride and came back and went through the specified check procedure. My oil level was exactly at the top of the checkered section on the dip stick (full). I think you are ok.

Thanks that’s does make me feel thanks for posting that

Sarge707
01-23-2019, 12:36 PM
Thanks that’s does make me feel thanks for posting that

Your oil is fine and Replacing ALL lubricants at 200 miles is way over kill if you ask me! The oil change interval is 6000 miles or one year and the Gear and Final drive fluid change is 2 years or 12,000 miles. There is a 3000 mile check your supposed to have your dealer do but I never did and it never affected warranty. I have had 15 Rotax jet skies and this will be my 4th Can Am vehicle. It does not say that the oil should be changed at 3000 miles or Not?

I personally plan to do my first oil change at about 1,200 miles and then switch to synthetic and then change by the Schedule. I will change the gear oil in the late Fall before winter as well as the 2nd oil change so it sits happy in the winter.