Ryker Issue Alert!

[BajaRon]

I am sure something official will be coming out soon. But I thought I'd give the heads-Up ASAP.

I just got a call from Mountain Motorsports (My dealer) saying that they have been informed by BRP that some Rykers may have been delivered without any lubricant in the gear box. Not to ride it, they will come pick it up and have it inspected by their service department to be sure it has what it needs.

If I hear anything more I will let you know. But speculating, I'd say someone has had a failure somewhere and this was the cause.

[Little Blue]

:coffee: I wonder how this happened? Did an owner find it? I hope it goes well and maybe not big overall problem. :thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the heads-up on this one! :thumbup:

[AeroPilot]

Did you have oil in your rear shaft differential? The front should be lubed with the engine oil, right?

[BajaRon]

:coffee: I wonder how this happened? Did an owner find it? I hope it goes well and maybe not big overall problem. :thumbup:

Like I said, this is all the information I have. My feeling is that this may be a fluke and BRP decided to look at them all rather than take a chance. It is just speculation on my part that a customer had an issue and no gear lube was discovered as the problem. The main thing right now would be for Ryker owners to check with their dealer before they do any more riding. Frankly, I am surprised and impressed that Mountain Motorsports is ahead of everyone else on this. Though it will raise some questions if no one else hears about this, if you know what I mean. It's just too early to say anything more.

[frj322]

Wow! An issue to be sure, but ultimately isn't this on the dealer? Allow me to explain. I was a GM dealer tech for 26 years and, on every new car we received there was a "pre-delivery inspection" during which the entire car was inspected by us (the technician). All accessories were added (hubcaps, running boards etc) all fluids checked, lug nut torque etc. That process was then charged back to the manufacturer as the first warranty claim on the unit and NOT passed on to the customer as "prep charges". Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the dealer contacted you but, considering we are being charged "prep fees, freight" etc (yes, I know some are negotiating these fees down but, by and large, we are paying them) it makes me wonder what we are getting for our money. There is absolutely NO WAY this should have made it out of the dealer's lot IMHO.

[ARtraveler]

Thank you for the update.

:yes:

[BajaRon]

Wow! An issue to be sure, but ultimately isn't this on the dealer? Allow me to explain. I was a GM dealer tech for 26 years and, on every new car we received there was a "pre-delivery inspection" during which the entire car was inspected by us (the technician). All accessories were added (hubcaps, running boards etc) all fluids checked, lug nut torque etc. That process was then charged back to the manufacturer as the first warranty claim on the unit and NOT passed on to the customer as "prep charges". Don't get me wrong, I'm happy the dealer contacted you but, considering we are being charged "prep fees, freight" etc (yes, I know some are negotiating these fees down but, by and large, we are paying them) it makes me wonder what we are getting for our money. There is absolutely NO WAY this should have made it out of the dealer's lot IMHO.

It does beg the question as to where in the life of a Ryker is the gear box lube added, and what is required by the dealership during assembly, pre-delivery inspection. Since I do not have answers to any of these questions there is no way to know where this kind of error may have occurred. If the gear box lube is supposed to be checked at the dealership before delivery then that is one thing. If this step is not required at the dealership level then the problem lies elsewhere.

It does concern me a bit that no one else has heard about this as I am not the most BRP connected person here on Spyderlovers.com.

We will see.

[Chupaca]

Is there no way for the customer to check this..?? is it a sealed unit ..?? don't know what is involved in doing the checking but the dealers will be busy when this gets spread around....:shocked:

[jaisy207]

Is there no way for the customer to check this..?? is it a sealed unit ..?? don't know what is involved in doing the checking but the dealers will be busy when this gets spread around....:shocked:

really bad idea. recalls are NOT to be performed by the consumer. i have worked in automotive manufacturing quality control for years. they will notify as many as needed based on vin and when they can establish failure and clean points

[Sarge707]

The manual shows the fill plug on the left side near the foot peg. When they OR You take that plug out the oil should be to the top and the drain plug is underneath. Shows it pretty good in the user manual.

[Triumphcycleman]

Service Bulliten 2019-2

[Lamonster]

168750
168751
168752
168753

[Lamonster]

We just checked ours and it took about 2oz but it wasn't dry for sure.

[CTAC]

Called my dealer and he looked up my VIN... Didn't think mine was affected but said to bring it in for peace of mind.

[BajaRon]

We just checked ours and it took about 2oz but it wasn't dry for sure.

Thanks Lamont. I have taken some things off my Ryker and I don't really want it going to the dealership missing parts. I planned to check the oil level myself and this helps a lot.

[cueman]

We just checked ours and it took about 2oz but it wasn't dry for sure.

Hey Lamonster, what’s your trick for checking the final drive? Read the manual and if ya get it out their way, I think it will be next to impossible to put the plug back in, short of taking the wheel off. Thanks, cueman

[Tslepebull]

I got a similar call from my dealer except it was about engine oil. Then I got another call saying the SN of mine was not involved. However, when I checked the dip stick the level was at the bottom of the checkered section (using the process described in the owners manual). I added about 1/2 quart to bring it up to spec.

Update, I did check my gearbox and the level was low. I could see the gear teeth and they were wet with lubricant and did not appear discolored but I added nearly 0.5 L of 75W140 synthetic gear oil and notified my dealer. They told me to bring it in when I get a chance and they will fill out a work order to make an official record and do further inspection. I already have 200 miles on it and hope nothing in the gear box is damaged.

[WilliamTRyker]

Sent in a note to my dealer and they called me back this morning. They "don't think" there is an issue but they are picking up the bike Monday to inspect it. So, hopefully I'll be back on the road Tuesday (depending on weather of course).

[cueman]

Hey Lamonster, what’s your trick for checking the final drive? Read the manual and if ya get it out their way, I think it will be next to impossible to put the plug back in, short of taking the wheel off. Thanks, cueman

Has anybody checked the final drive fluid in the rear end???

[GoandChase]

I called my dealer just now and he looked up my vin and said there were no notices attached. Can I assume I'm good to go or is this something that will take BRP a few days to put out?

[BajaRon]

Just checked my gearbox and it is full. Interesting that it calls for everything from 5w-40 engine oil to 75-140 gear lube (depending on temperature). That's a pretty good spread in viscosity and lubricant type!

[Sarge707]

Just checked my gearbox and it is full. Interesting that it calls for everything from 5w-40 engine oil to 75-140 gear lube (depending on temperature). That's a pretty good spread in viscosity and lubricant type!
Did you put a new O ring or is this one to reuse the ring if its good?

[Tslepebull]

Did you put a new O ring or is this one to reuse the ring if its good?

I just reused mine. I's not a crush washer, those you cannot reuse

[BajaRon]

Did you put a new O ring or is this one to reuse the ring if its good?

It is the oil fill plug that has an O-Ring. I did not need to remove the fill plug because my gear box oil level was good. But if I had, I'd have reused the O-Ring.

The fill level plug I pulled has a copper washer which I reused. These copper washers can be reused a number of times without issue as long as they are not damaged. Same with most O-Ring applications. But the manufacturer is always going to tell you to replace them anyway.

[Tslepebull]

It is the oil fill plug that has an O-Ring. I did not need to remove the fill plug because my gear box oil level was good. But if I had, I'd have reused the O-Ring.

The fill level plug I pulled has a copper washer which I reused. These copper washers can be reused a number of times without issue as long as they are not damaged. Same with most O-Ring applications. But the manufacturer is always going to tell you to replace them anyway.

OK, now I am confused. The way I interpret the owners manual is that the white plastic hex head plug with the o-ring is what must be removed to check the oil level which is to be even with the fill hole. The magnetic plug with a sealing ring is the drain in the bottom of the gear box. I did not see any reference to a different oil level hole and plug.

[cueman]

:agree: In my manual it says to fill to the bottom of the fill hole, rubber O-ring on white plastic plug, and drain at the bottom at the drain plug that has a crush gasket. It does not say anything about a third level plug with a copper gasket. Can somebody, like a BRP or Can Am employee, chime in to help me understand. Also, how about putting the serial numbers of the affected units out there so we have some confirmation. :banghead: cueman

[BajaRon]

If you look at the pictures which Lamont put up in a previous post. The 1st one shows the Oil Level Plug and Copper Sealing Washer. The 2nd picture shows the large plastic fill plug w/O-Ring (where you add oil if needed). The fill plug has nothing to do with checking the oil level. It's sole purpose is to give access to the gear box so you can add oil if necessary.

So, Step 1- Pull the Oil Level Plug. Step 2- if you are low on oil, remove the fill plug and add oil until it begins to run out of the Oil Level Plug. If you are NOT low on oil (which I was not) Skip Step-2. I am not sure where the confusion is being generated.

Lamont's pictures do not address the drain plug because it is not pertinent to this discussion.

[cueman]

I stand corrected and I apologize to BajaRon and Lamonster. I just came in from the garage and sure enough there is an oil level plug close to where the driveshaft comes out of the trans. If you are looking at the white plastic fill plug look to the right and down a couple inches towards the driveshaft. There is a small in size toque head bolt plug and yes it does have a copper gasket. It even says OIL LEVEL on the case. I feel like an idiot! I guess I was so upset I over reacted. I also apologize to all forum members and others that I may have caused unneeded stress. :( cueman

[Tslepebull]

I stand corrected and I apologize to BajaRon and Lamonster. I just came in from the garage and sure enough there is an oil level plug close to where the driveshaft comes out of the trans. If you are looking at the white plastic fill plug look to the right and down a couple inches towards the driveshaft. There is a small in size toque head bolt plug and yes it does have a copper gasket. It even says OIL LEVEL on the case. I feel like an idiot! I guess I was so upset I over reacted. I also apologize to all forum members and others that I may have caused unneeded stress. :( cueman

OK mystery solved. Tomorrow I will remove the oil level plug (that I just found) and let the extra oil I put in drain down to the proper level. I erroneously filled my gear box up to the level of the fill hole. The owners manual is not particularly clear on this. My gear box was likely full after all. This is why forums like this are so valuable.

[BajaRon]

I stand corrected and I apologize to BajaRon and Lamonster. I just came in from the garage and sure enough there is an oil level plug close to where the driveshaft comes out of the trans. If you are looking at the white plastic fill plug look to the right and down a couple inches towards the driveshaft. There is a small in size toque head bolt plug and yes it does have a copper gasket. It even says OIL LEVEL on the case. I feel like an idiot! I guess I was so upset I over reacted. I also apologize to all forum members and others that I may have caused unneeded stress. :( cueman

No need to apologize. We are all here for the same reason. To get good information and to get answers when we don't understand. We've all been in your shoes more than once and probably will be again. It's all about the end result. And when that is good, it's all good! :thumbup:


OK mystery solved. Tomorrow I will remove the oil level plug (that I just found) and let the extra oil I put in drain down to the proper level. I erroneously filled my gear box up to the level of the fill hole. The owners manual is not particularly clear on this. My gear box was likely full after all. This is why forums like this are so valuable.

Wow! Good thing you stayed with this thread and got it cleared up. Running that gear box with that much oil may have been a real disaster!

Another Crisis Averted! Well Done!

[Tslepebull]

No need to apologize. We are all here for the same reason. To get good information and to get answers when we don't understand. We've all been in your shoes more than once and probably will be again. It's all about the end result. And when that is good, it's all good! :thumbup:



Wow! Good thing you stayed with this thread and got it cleared up. Running that gear box with that much oil may have been a real disaster!

Another Crisis Averted! Well Done!

Of course the whole garage will smell like cat pee! Why does gear oil have to smell like cat pee?:yikes: Fortunately it was way too cold and windy to ride today so with y'all's help I was able to avert a cat-ass-trophy

[Winnex3]

Looks like you can check to see if your Ryker is affected :trike: 168821. https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/ryker/recreational/ryker.html. Scroll to the bottom of the page And that’s where you look it up

[GoandChase]

@Winnex3 thanks for posting this. Never went all the way to the bottom of that page. Good catch.

[Sarge707]

The one I,m picking up looks good but I don,t know if a Bulletin is going to show up as a safety recall?

[Tslepebull]

OK crisis averted. Thanks to information provided by Lamonster and BajaRon I was able to drain my overfilled (my mistake) gear box to the proper level before I rode it. Here are some observations about the process of removing the observation plug for anyone who wants to go through the process. (1) there is not much room to get to the plug, and it is tight. (2) the plug takes a T-40 torx bit but I found it very difficult to get enough room to rotate the wrench handle far enough to break it free because it is recessed behind a body panel, the frame, and the drive shaft. (3) the outside of the plug is a regular 10mm hex head. I found it easier to use a 10mm 1/4 inch drive socket and universal joint on a 6 inch extension angled back and outside the body panel with a 1/4 inch drive socket handle to break it free and remove. (4) Once removed I loosened the 15 mm plastic FILL PLUG for air flow and drained out the extra through the inspection hole until it stopped flowing; it was only about 350 ml but I thought I had added more than that. (5) the socket, universal joint and extension also made it easier to get the inspection plug back in; I used the extension without a socket handle for this part to maintain feel - I did not want to cross thread the plug. (6) finally I torqued the inspection and fill plugs to spec.

The drained gear oil had a surprising amount of fine black debris in it but no burned smell. I assume this if from the gears burnishing together during the break in period; there were no big silver chunks. My experience will make later gear box oil changes easier and doing a partial lube change at 200 miles only cost me time and the lube.

I went back and re-read the maintenance instructions in the owners manual. On page 103 under verifying the gearbox oil level it states in item 4 that oil level should be even with the bottom of the oil level hole. However, the arrow in the diagram points to what we have been referring as the oil fill hole (15 mm plastic plug). This reference is made again on page 104 under instructions for changing the gear box oil where in item 6 it says to remove the gearbox level plug and the arrow in the figure points to what we are calling the fill plug. Later in item 10 it says to fill the gearbox through the oil level hole until the oil reaches bottom of the oil level hole. Then in item 11 it states to install the oil level plug with its O-ring. Nowhere in the owners manual does it reference the 10mm plug with copper washer on the back side of the gear box despite the oil level wording cast into the gear box. Here is my concern... there is different information in the owners manual than Lamonsters service bulletin. Presumably the service bulletin is more current. However, if the information in the owners manual is inconsistent with the service bulletin BRP may want to address that.

[BajaRon]

I find that an actual picture is many times more informative than the diagrams in maintenance manuals. I hope this helps clear things up for everyone. Picture expands if you mouse over it and wait a second.

168829

[Leland]

The fact that BRP seems to have slipped up on "quality controls" is a concern to me. First, how does QC miss the fact that the several gearboxes are not filled with oil. This is a MAJOR safety concern. If the gearbox where to overheat and seize a bearing at highway speed the outcome could be fatal.

Another concerns is how does the owner know which lubricant was partially loaded into his gearbox? Smelling the oil may indicate which oil was partially loaded, but to be certain the gearbox needs to be drained and refilled. Mixing hypoid gear oil and engine motor oil is not a good practice. An owner that tops off his gearbox oil does not know for sure at this point what the outcome of this mixture will be at a latter date.

All dealers should take the time to check gearbox lubricant levels before the Ryker leaves their door. If the sales margins are so slim that safety checks are not performed then BRP need to revalue their products.

Finally the owner's manual should represent the product. Owner confusion must not exist when it comes to safety inspection and maintenance. Gearbox oil inspection and replacement is a simple task that owners need to be able to access easily at homes if they desire. BRP needs to slow down and get the support system working before dumping a new product on the market.

In my option it appear that BRP is in a big rush to save themselves. What I mean is, they know that the Spyder market is limited and hope to flush the market with this trendy hipster ride hoping to light off the sales and revenues departments. We may find out that the Ryker is not as durable as the Spyders in the end. Once again all new owners of first production machines are going to pay the cost of these mistakes.

We are starting to find out now that the front tires size is proprietary as well as the need for a special socket to mount the wheels along with a 3ft. torque wrench. Now we have question regarding missing gearbox oil and errors in the owner's manual. Yesterday a Ryker owner posted that his headlights where not aimed correctly from the factory, they flooded the tree tops on high and on low, went directly into the window of oncoming cars. What is going on in these BRP factories in Mexico?

What other little tricks are hiding under the Ryker-hood, BRP?

[Tslepebull]

I find that an actual picture is many times more informative than the diagrams in maintenance manuals. I hope this helps clear things up for everyone. Picture expands if you mouse over it and wait a second.

168829

Thanks again BajaRon, the photograph and arrows provide much better information than schematics. Having the side panel off in the photograph makes the inspection hole much easier to see and likely easier to get to. I just had to do everything the hard way starting with my interpretation of the owners manual. Some times the lessons hardest learned are those longest remembered. It was too cold to ride this morning anyway. I was better off spending quality wrench time with YellaCat

[frj322]

Have to agree here. Isn't this being passed on to us as customers as part of the 'prep charge'? Even if BRP missed it, the dealer should have caught it for sure (reference my above post concerning the pre delivery inspection process).

[ARtraveler]

I'm thinking a bit early to condemn BRP and the QC process. Things sometimes happen with first run production. As long as they make it right...give them a chance.

To early to call foul...IMO.

[old Timer]

Way too early to call a Foul.

[BajaRon]

Way too early to call a Foul.

Agreed. We don't even know if anyone has had a problem. And as far as we know, no one has found their gear box oil to be low. Everything beyond the check of certain VIN # machines is pure speculation. With the facts that we do have I commend BRP for what appears to be an overkill reaction on their part just to be sure this isn't a problem.

There is a great deal of assembly required to get a crated Ryker ready to ride. I'm sure there is a check list of things which are required by the dealer before delivery. If the gear box is supposed to be filled from the factory and it isn't on the check list. I am not going to fault the dealership or BRP if this is not an assembly requirement.

[Tslepebull]

I'm thinking a bit early to condemn BRP and the QC process. Things sometimes happen with first run production. As long as they make it right...give them a chance.

To early to call foul...IMO.

Yeah, remember the "no maintenance needed" final drives without a drain hole in the early Oilhead BMWs? BMW was very good about replacing them with the upgraded unit even after the warranty was up. They replaced the final drive on my 2005 GS even though my mileage had passed the 36K warranty; that was about a $1700 part. All I paid was the hour of shop time the technician took to remove and replace it.

[Tslepebull]

Agreed. We don't even know if anyone has had a problem. And as far as we know, no one has found their gear box oil to be low. Everything beyond the check of certain VIN # machines is pure speculation. With the facts that we do have I commend BRP for what appears to be an overkill reaction on their part just to be sure this isn't a problem.

There is a great deal of assembly required to get a crated Ryker ready to ride. I'm sure there is a check list of things which are required by the dealer before delivery. If the gear box is supposed to be filled from the factory and it isn't on the check list. I am not going to fault the dealership or BRP if this is not an assembly requirement.

I'll bet they check it now

[Michaelscs]

Way too early to call a Foul.

Agree! Glad you said something.

[WilliamTRyker]

We don't even know if anyone has had a problem. And as far as we know, no one has found their gear box oil to be low.

My dealer just picked my Ryker due to the Service Bulletin (just to be sure). What they told me was that they assembled several additional units after I took delivery of mine and they were all low on gearbox oil, however, none of them were dry. I don't know if that means anything I just want to add it as a data point.

[Sarge707]

My dealer just picked my Ryker due to the Service Bulletin (just to be sure). What they told me was that they assembled several additional units after I took delivery of mine and they were all low on gearbox oil, however, none of them were dry. I don't know if that means anything I just want to add it as a data point.
This would make you assume they are filled at the Factory, which is now Mexico per the copy of the title I received, and a Very easy tip to find the hole is -Turn the parking brake off (down) and it will point right at the level check hole.

[BajaRon]

This would make you assume they are filled at the Factory, which is now Mexico per the copy of the title I received, and a Very easy tip to find the hole is -Turn the parking brake off (down) and it will point right at the level check hole.

Yes, I would say it is pretty well established that the gear box is filled at the factory. The subject has been raised that this should also be checked by the dealership during setup. I'm not against this. But I do not think it should necessarily be required. I would say that there was a new product assembly glitch and it has now been addressed at the source. I think the problem is most likely, permanently resolved. So I would be good with leaving this off the setup list.

[Tslepebull]

More on the subject by an unhappy Ryker owner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeS60qzIp54
I don't agree with bashing the dealer but the information regarding the service notice appears to be correct.

[BajaRon]

More on the subject by an unhappy Ryker owner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeS60qzIp54
I don't agree with bashing the dealer but the information regarding the service notice appears to be correct.

This video has bad information. You don't take the fill cap off your car engine and expect to see oil to the top. The Ryker Gear Box is similar. Except that you have a Fill Level Plug remotely located from the Fill Plug instead of a dipstick remotely located. The Fill Plug hole is for filling the Gear Box Only. Not for checking the oil level.

I think the culprit here is the Owner's Manual giving bad advise. So I can't fault the guy in this video for the error in that respect. But I hope he pulls the video. Because this video is going to generate a great deal of unnecessary angst, and possibly damage as some will simply fill their gear box to the top of the fill plug, which will be very bad.

[Highwayman2013]

Is there no way for the customer to check this..?? is it a sealed unit ..?? don't know what is involved in doing the checking but the dealers will be busy when this gets spread around....:shocked:

I would check it myself. Can’t be that hard.

[ARtraveler]

Noted concerning the video. Going to consult with the others before pulling the plug on the video.

No further comment right now.

[BajaRon]

Brand new oil will be pretty thin on gears above the oil level. So I'm not necessarily surprised that there does not appear to be much oil film on the gears that you can see through the fill plug hole, which is about 2 inches above the proper oil level.

In any case. It would be a very sad thing if someone did damage to their gear box based on bad information. I am hoping this does not happen.

[ARtraveler]

Is this your video? ......

Not my video Ron. Submited by a member as an attachment in post #50

I am on it...meant the moderators are currently looking into it.

[Tslepebull]

Is this your video? ....

Baja Ron, I posted the video having stumbled on it while watching other reviews. The "Katy" that the video producer refers to is west of Houston and far away from Alaska. I posted the link to the video as a heads up that there was information on the internet regarding the issue; not to be inflammatory. Those of us that have been following the thread are aware of the issue and thanks to you and LaMonster we now know the correct information. If I was out of line in posting the link to the video, I apologize and accept the blame but spreading inflammatory mis-information was not my intention.

[BajaRon]

Baja Ron, I posted the video having stumbled on it while watching other reviews. The "Katy" that the video producer refers to is west of Houston and far away from Alaska. I posted the link to the video as a heads up that there was information on the internet regarding the issue; not to be inflammatory. Those of us that have been following the thread are aware of the issue and thanks to you and LaMonster we now know the correct information. If I was out of line in posting the link to the video, I apologize and accept the blame but spreading information was not my intention.

You were fine. I just got too emotional about it and said some things that I now regret. Potentially damaging information like what the video portrayes upsets me. But it does not justify my initial reaction or some of my comments. There is a real problem and that is the misinformation in the Owner's manual. I was wrong to disparage the video producer. But you have done nothing wrong.

I pulled the post that you quote and modified another post that I think was a bit inappropriate. I am hoping that is adequate.

[ARtraveler]

From two of the mods:

We are going to leave the video up for now.

[Tslepebull]

Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.

[LeftCoast]

Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.

It’s one of those interesting moments “should it stay, should it go”. In the spirit of this being a place to learn and get further educated, something that I appreciate daily here, I think it’s a good opportunity to understand how to and how not to check the fluid level as well as understanding potentially confusing info in the owners manual. Hopefully we all come away a bit smarter on the topic. So for the time being I think we are wrapping up in a good spot.

[BajaRon]

Baja Ron, no harm no foul from my standpoint. Y'all have been nothing but helpful to me. I am just sorry that the link I posted has caused so much consternation to the community.

In my opinion, you're good. I never had an issue with your posting the link. I did get over ventilated with my reaction to that video. But that isn't your fault. Never intended to imply that your posting of the video was a problem.


It’s one of those interesting moments “should it stay, should it go”. In the spirit of this being a place to learn and get further educated, something that I appreciate daily here, I think it’s a good opportunity to understand how to and how not to check the fluid level as well as understanding potentially confusing info in the owners manual. Hopefully we all come away a bit smarter on the topic. So for the time being I think we are wrapping up in a good spot.

I agree. This site is all about information. This discussion (including the bad-info video) may well help someone, or many someones. That's what it is all about.

[QuasiMotard]

In my opinion, you're good. I never had an issue with your posting the link. I did get over ventilated with my reaction to that video. But that isn't your fault. Never intended to imply that your posting of the video was a problem.



I agree. This site is all about information. This discussion (including the bad-info video) may well help someone, or many someones. That's what it is all about.

Good evening, all! I didn't mean to stir the pot here, but I got caught out on this issue regarding the low oil service bulletin. That is my video on YouTube to document the case for a potential warranty claim, should one arise in the future. I guess this isn't the best intro post to a forum, so my apologies to all if I generated any unnecessary angst. I must be one of the "lucky ones" with a low or empty gearbox.

All of the confusion surrounding this issue is due to the missing or incorrect procedures in the Can-Am Operator's Manual, where they omit a couple of critical steps and highlight the wrong location as the check bolt. I didn't want to take down the video which might cause discontinuity. Instead, I have updated the comments and video description with corrected information to the best of my ability. The video now has a "card" at the intro that links to the follow-up video showing the correct oil level location, and there is also a Google Drive link containing the service bulletin images that Lamonster so kindly uploaded to this forum.

The gear noise that I heard on deceleration after the first ride might be normal due to the design of the gearbox on this bike, but it seemed to get louder as I rode further (more heat in the box). When I parked it at my office, switched into reverse, it hung until I revved the motor up a bit and then loudly whacked/clunked into reverse (much louder than when I test rode it at the dealership). I repeated the forward/reverse a couple of times and the issue persisted in both directions. I let it cool down about 30 minutes, tried it again, and it was much less noticeable. That's when I started researching the Ryker's to see if this was "normal". Every bike has a personality, so this could be normal... I was just being cautious.

Unfortunately for me, the low/empty gearbox issue seems to be a reality for my Ryker. The second video shows what I did to verify the oil level this morning... pulled the level bolt, pointed the nose uphill, but no oil at the check hole. I even stuck a white zip-tie about 3" or so into the hole and it came out dry. The check bolt itself was also dry (no oil)... just a thin coating of anti-seize on the threads. I'm relatively new to the Can-Am world, but not new to mechanics or motorcycling. I'm a motorcycle veteran with 40+ years of wrenching experience (and 14 bikes currently in the stable... Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Ducati, Chinesium Crap, etc). So, I try not to make any rash assumptions about service departments or manufacturer's claims about TSB's and recalls being performed. However, in this case, I was nose-to-nose with the problem and I knew that something was amiss.

Earlier in the day, I had an agreement with the dealer to have it towed back to the service department to check the problem (and to document the issue on the VIN for future reference). They called me back later in the afternoon and said that they were assured by their service department that the oil level had been checked (contrary to the evidence), and asked me to ride it back to the dealership to be checked out. Before I do that, I will certainly document the topping-off of the gearbox to see how low it is. It needs to go back for an alignment check anyway... hopefully this one isn't a lemon, because I really like the bike and waited months to get my hands on this one.

So, long story short... I don't know if any damage has been done in these first 25 miles, or exactly how low the gearbox oil is at this point. I plan to pick up a quart of 75W140 SYN gear oil and top it off before venturing any further. Fortunately, I do have several other bikes to ride while this is sorted out, so I'm in no particular rush to break anything or make enemies in the process. The videos are to document what, for all visible and logical accounts, seems to be an issue of missed PDI/pre-sales check, and to cover my due-diligence if a warranty issue should occur. At the very least, the alignment issue and scratched-up A-arms should not have slipped past the quality check ride. Again, I'm not intentionally bashing the dealer... I have purchased several other bikes from them with no issues. These are just the facts as they have revealed themselves.

So far, my Ryker ownership experience has been a case of caveat emptor and shoot-the-messenger all in one. Hopefully this will improve. ;-)

Best regards,
QuasiMotard
Katy, TX, USA

[BajaRon]

Good evening, all! I didn't mean to stir the pot here, but I got caught out on this issue regarding the low oil service bulletin. That is my video on YouTube to document the case for a potential warranty claim, should one arise in the future. I guess this isn't the best intro post to a forum, so my apologies to all if I generated any unnecessary angst. I must be one of the "lucky ones" with a low or empty gearbox.

Best regards,
QuasiMotard
Katy, TX, USA

Nice post. Impressed with your integrity. I think this saga is as resolved as it can be, other than the final determination regarding your particular gear box.

I must say that I was somewhat surprised at how much noise my gear box made. Not horrendous, by any means. But somehow I think I was expecting that it would be quieter than a standard MC transmission, which it is not. And the engagement clunk, which I've discovered is normal for a CVT, is a bit disconcerting at first. Though again, nature of the beast. None of which is going to be a problem for me. You always listen and pay close attention to things on a new ride. I don't want to make it sound like any of this is particularly annoying or going to be an issue for me. Just my observations based on ignorant expectations. Never having owned a CVT vehicle before. Once engaged this is an extremely smooth transmission. And you'll never miss a shift or be in the wrong gear.

Not sure a zip tie is the best way to check the oil level as they don't necessarily go down once they clear the hole. Though I suspect that you bent it to accomplish the intended task. I used a small Allen wrench. That assured me of an accurate reading. Though no oil came out of the Oil Level hole, (sitting level). The oil did come up to the top of the Oil Level Hole on the Allen wrench.

Here is hoping that your Ryker Gear Box is not damaged. It is a shame that such a simple yet critical step might have been missed.

Please come back and let us know the rest of the story. I think where this goes from here may actually be more important than how you got to this point.

[QuasiMotard]

Here is hoping that your Ryker Gear Box is not damaged. It is a shame that such a simple yet critical step might have been missed.

Please come back and let us know the rest of the story. I think where this goes from here may actually be more important than how you got to this point.

Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.

In case anyone is interested, here is the latest gearbox oil fill video: https://youtu.be/xtbg62v9hHs

I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.

This is the walk-around and tire check video (with my dealer rant... sorry, couldn't bite my tongue on on this one): https://youtu.be/84q8IRQYQvM

I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.

--
QM

[BajaRon]

Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.

I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.

I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.

--
QM

Let us know if the gear box noise is reduced after filling to the correct level. With it that low I suspect there will be some reduction in gear box noise.

[Leland]

Howdy all! The weather was better in Houston today, so I stopped by a different Can-Am dealer to purchase a quart of XPS 75W-140 gear oil to finish out the gearbox issue. As I suspected, it was very low. I dumped about 145 mL or so into it before I got to the threads at the check hole. It was about 30% under-filled... not just a little bit. So, that obviously wasn't checked per the TSB/recall. Considering the fact that the box wasn't completely dry and it was only driven/ridden 25 miles, I suspect that no major damage was done.

I also checked the tire pressures to see if that might be causing the tail wag. They were 17, 17, and 23.5 (left, right, rear)... no drastic changes in temperature or elevation since I took delivery last Friday. They should be 20, 20, 28. Unfortunately that didn't fix the wandering, so it must be something in the alignment (feels like toe-out and camber issue on front-right). It looks like the dealer just skipped over the bike and ticked boxes on the PDI form to get it out the door. Lucky me. The kicker is that they had 6 business days to get it ready after I gave them my deposit... it wasn't a rush delivery. Such a let-down for what should be a fun experience. After I settle up with this dealer on the current issues, I think I'll be shopping and servicing elsewhere in the future.

I video-documented everything again, and I'll be delivering it back to them (isn't that backwards?) so they can re-check everything and also fix the alignment. I have no doubt that the Ryker will be a great bike once these issues are resolved... it's just getting there that's tedious.

--
QM

@QM

It would be a good idea to have the dealership inspect the oil level in the final drive gearbox. I have attached the IPD of the final drive system. The inspection/fill plug is hidden behind the rear tire/wheel assembly and is labeled #50a. To check or change the oil the rear wheel must be removed using the lovely special BRP socket and 225 ft/lbs of torque. I will bet that this gearbox is not being inspected during pre-delivery prep inspections of Rykers.

It would be smart to be present during the removal of this inspection plug and witness the oil level in person. A video recording would be helpful too. I would also like to suggest you dump out the current oil in you gearbox and install fresh oil. Take a look at the amount of swarth in the oil.

Would you please ask the dealership if your Ryker needs to be attached to a BUDS computers connection to properly align a Ryker?

I'm sure you aware that Spyders are very sensitive to alignment issues. If the tires and alignment are not carefully chosen and setup the bike will wander. You don't have a choice on tires selection at this point in time, but historically the factory Kenda brand of tires has been very sensitive to alignment issues. Currently only the Kenda brand of tires are factory installed on Rykers.

I wish you luck.

[Tslepebull]

Although I have not heard anything I can identify as gear noise on my Rally I do hear distinctive CVT belt noise on deceleration. To me it sounds like a turbo spooling up and back down. Like any new bike I am still getting used to its individual idiosyncrasies.

[QuasiMotard]

Let us know if the gear box noise is reduced after filling to the correct level. With it that low I suspect there will be some reduction in gear box noise.

Yes, the gearbox noise is significantly reduced. It still clunks when engaging reverse sometimes, but it's not as noticeable as it was before the top-off. I suspect that the oil already in the gearbox is the thinner variety and this thicker oil is dampening the metal-to-metal engagement due to the higher film strength. I repeated my test of warming up the bike on a short ride, then going forward/reverse/forward several times. 4/5 times it didn't clunk at all, whereas the previous test it wouldn't engage either direction without a loud WHACK after it warmed up. As noted in the video that I posted, I plan to drain the box and fill with a single oil type... it's probably a mix right now.

I still noticed some clunks from the rear diff when engaging forward at low speeds, but that might be the behavior of the ring and pinion in this model... time will tell. I do plan to insist that the dealer check the rear diff while they have it tomorrow. If the gearbox was under-filled, then it stands to reason that the rear diff might have been neglected as well.

The jet engine spin-down sound while decelerating is still there, but it is also quieter than it was on the first ride. I am attributing that noise to the gearbox and/or driveshaft arrangement more than to the CVT itself (I could be mistaken). CVT's typically don't make much noise at all unless it's belt noise (e.g. belt slap due to rapid throttle or ratio changes, or squeaking/groaning when wet/dirty/loose). I have owned 20+ scooters over the years (still have 5 right now), and they don't have the gear whine that the Ryker has... hence my assumption that it's gear noise rather than the CVT. I have a Honda SilverWing 600 scooter with 30K+ miles and it belt slaps like crazy when the pulleys are dirty or the belt is getting old.

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QM

[Leland]

@QM

Did they perform an alignment? If so, does it drive sold at freeway speeds. Any word about the need of a BUDS connection to align the Ryder?

Edit:

Sorry, disregard, I miss read, it looks like your Ryker goes to the dealer tomorrow. It appear you rode it home etc. today.

Best of luck,

[QuasiMotard]

@QM

It would be a good idea to have the dealership inspect the oil level in the final drive gearbox. I have attached the IPD of the final drive system. The inspection/fill plug is hidden behind the rear tire/wheel assembly and is labeled #50a. To check or change the oil the rear wheel must be removed using the lovely special BRP socket and 225 ft/lbs of torque. I will bet that this gearbox is not being inspected during pre-delivery prep inspections of Rykers.

It would be smart to be present during the removal of this inspection plug and witness the oil level in person. A video recording would be helpful too. I would also like to suggest you dump out the current oil in you gearbox and install fresh oil. Take a look at the amount of swarth in the oil.

Would you please ask the dealership if your Ryker needs to be attached to a BUDS computers connection to properly align a Ryker?

I'm sure you aware that Spyders are very sensitive to alignment issues. If the tires and alignment are not carefully chosen and setup the bike will wander. You don't have a choice on tires selection at this point in time, but historically the factory Kenda brand of tires has been very sensitive to alignment issues. Currently only the Kenda brand of tires are factory installed on Rykers.

I wish you luck.

Thanks for the wishes and for the diagram! In lieu of a service manual (not yet available), any and all tech diagrams are welcomed. I definitely plan to dump the gearbox and refill with a single grade of oil. I live in a hot climate, so I'll opt for the 75W-140 variety for the higher film strength. If the dealer does this as part of the re-check (ahem... their first check), then I want to see the magnetic drain plug to see if we have any shiny, chunky bits to worry about.

I don't know how the dealer will feel about me being in the service area, especially with a camera... we'll see. They already know that I busted them on the gearbox issue. I mentioned that I have video-chronicled the situation for other Ryker owners due to the Operator's Manual issue, and their whole attitude changed. They did a quick 180 and asked me to bring it in right away, and said that they would bump it to the front of the Can-Am service queue to sort it out. Hmmm... 30 minutes prior, they said they wouldn't have time to look at it until Tuesday or Wednesday of next week.

That's a good tech question on the alignment computer (not familiar with the 'BUDS' acronym)... so I will certainly pose the question and let everyone know the results. I have ridden several F3's and RT's that tracked straight and true, so this one was a (not-so-pleasant) surprise when I got it out on the road. Of course, the Sypders have power (or power-assist) steering, where the Ryker is manual... so there will be a marked difference in feel at the bars. Wheel hop over bumps on the freeway is interesting, that's for sure.

I made a second ride shakedown video after my Owner's PDI Redux adventure where I rode it a few miles away to air up the tires. The GoPro has image stabilization that masks some of the side-to-side sway, but it's still noticeable as my body position keeps shifting around relative to the centerline of the bike. A couple of hands-off coast downs show it drifting to the right. Braking also makes it pull unevenly... feels like the back end is trying to come around and say "Hello".

I have raced track cars, race karts, drag cars, etc and dealt with plenty of alignment issues over the years. However, this is my first personal experience with diagnosing alignment "feel" on a 3-wheel platform. I think there is too much toe-out and maybe some positive camber on the right side. Typically, negative camber makes it dig, positive makes it feel tipsy; a slight amount of toe-in helps straight-line tracking, but toe-out chases pavement grooves and darts in the direction of dips/depressions (similar to bump-steer). We'll see how that sorts out.

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

@QM

Did they perform an alignment? If so, does it drive sold at freeway speeds. Any word about the need of a BUDS connection to align the Ryder?

Edit:

Sorry, disregard, I miss read, it looks like your Ryker goes to the dealer tomorrow. It appear you rode it home etc. today.

Best of luck,

Hehe... I was typing previous reply when you posted this one. I haven't been riding it much because of the issues. Houston rush-hour traffic isn't the time or place to break in a new bike that wags its tail like a happy puppy... Awww, you're so cute, wanna play? ;-) So, I'm headed to my warehouse to pick it up early tomorrow morning and ride it back to the dealer. It'll be 15 miles of highway access roads and stop lights this time... not the white-knuckled, "WTF is going on with this thing?" fun I had last Friday during rush hour. I had it up on the freeway for a couple of miles and it was a REAL handful... especially in the grooved pavement sections of I-10 near Beltway-8 (anyone from Houston will know what I'm talking about). I'm sure plenty of drivers behind me were saying, "look at this A-hole weaving around...what a tool".

I'll update tomorrow or Tuesday (whenever I get it back) with the results.

BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?

--
QM

[Rob Rodriguez]

I don't have a Ryker so I'm basing this response on the 900 Ace with the CVT in the Ski-Doo sleds. When you let off the throttle and the engine drop to or below engagement RPM that whine (jet engine you mention) and rapid slow down is a function of the CVT. BRP calls it a feature. It's basically self braking and back shifting.

[QuasiMotard]

I don't have a Ryker so I'm basing this response on the 900 Ace with the CVT in the Ski-Doo sleds. When you let off the throttle and the engine drop to or below engagement RPM that whine (jet engine you mention) and rapid slow down is a function of the CVT. BRP calls it a feature. It's basically self braking and back shifting.

Excellent observation, thx for the info! I have never owned a sled or anything with a BRP/Rotax CVT powertrain. The gear whine that I hear from my Ryker seems to be congruent to rear wheel speed and ceases when coming to a full stop (almost a cogging sound below 5 mph). That could be due to the CVT speed and engine RPM relationship like you mention. The Ryker has a significant amount of engine braking, so there isn't any "free-wheeling" or drive decoupling until you're nearly stopped. The noise is not intrusive or annoying... more curious than anything else. I guess time (and inquiring ears) will eventually reveal our answers.

--
QM

[Peter Aawen]

......

BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?

--
QM

Unless BajaRon thinks otherwise, I reckon that so far this thread has seen a fairly reasonable & acceptable flow-on from the initial discussion about the low oil issues some Rykers may experience.... So my thoughts are to leave things as they are for now; at least until I hear differently from Ron or Lamont/Admin! :thumbup:

[BajaRon]

BTW: @BajaRon , I feel bad for hijacking your thread. Maybe I should move this stuff to another topic or maybe the mods have a suggestion?
QM


Unless BajaRon thinks otherwise, I reckon that so far this thread has seen a fairly reasonable & acceptable flow-on from the initial discussion about the low oil issues some Rykers may experience.... So my thoughts are to leave things as they are for now; at least until I hear differently from Ron or Lamont/Admin! :thumbup:

I agree Peter. It's not really my thread. It is our thread. Though it started out as 1 specific Ryker issue. Any real or perceived 'Issue' is still on subject, as far as I am concerned. Why not have them all in one place rather than scattered into several threads.

[Leland]

168933

[gskinner]

I picked up my Ryker Rally today. They were checking fluids while I was dealing with paperwork. I asked them to be sure and check the gear box oil and they did need to add a little.

[BajaRon]

I must admit. I find it hard to understand how in the world a product could get out of the factory without the proper lubricants filled to the correct level. I am glad this is being addressed. But it does not speak well for the assembly process.

[Leland]

But it does not speak well for the assembly process.

Here are two photos posted by Lamont today. He did not give a description but it looks like he found the screw nearly completely backed out of the engine case on a Ryker. For clarification you can go to RykerLovers on Facebook. He was performing an alignment as well and made this discovery......

EDIT UPDATE I found a description finally on facebook by Lamont. This screw is used to lock the steering in the straight away position. It appears to be part of the alignments process. It is not an assembly error.

Here is the clip of Lamonts comment about the two photos:
************************************************** *******************************

Lamont Bryden The screw is used to lock in the steering so that the bars are straight. If look you can see it in this picture. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2139017822808144&set=pcb.310566646232196&type=3&theater&ifg=1

I have a different base for my levels so the magnets hold to the axle.

[QuasiMotard]

I agree Peter. It's not really my thread. It is our thread. Though it started out as 1 specific Ryker issue. Any real or perceived 'Issue' is still on subject, as far as I am concerned. Why not have them all in one place rather than scattered into several threads.

Sounds good to me. However, I don't understand your "perceived 'Issue'" comment where the gearbox oil issue is concerned. This has been confirmed in my case (not dry, but 30% under-filled) and a few others from what I understand. Or am I misinterpreting your reply? I realize that there have been a few other developments since this quote.

The jury is still out on the alignment problem. The dealer is looking at it today and has already admitted that the tech assigned to the PDI on my Ryker, "apparently didn't check the oil level or specifications detailed in TSB 2019-2". If the tech missed/ignored the TSB, what else was omitted or ignored? What other safety items might have been at risk? Wheel nut torque specs... I shudder to think of the consequences of that one.

They were very apologetic about the whole mess and agreed to assign a new tech, redo the entire PDI, verify the alignment, and verify the oil in the final drive. That's huge step in the right direction. Kudo's to them for NOT denying the validity of the facts for a second time. They advised that they should be done with it on Tuesday and give me a call to arrange re-delivery or pick up.

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

Here are two photos posted by Lamont today. He did not give a description but it looks like he found the screw nearly completely backed out of the engine case on a Ryker. For clarification you can go to RykerLovers on Facebook. He was performing an alignment as well and made this discovery......

@BajaRon : agreed on the assembly process. In one of my replies on the YouTube threads, I put it this way:
"... This is a first-year run of a new model, so there are bound to be little issues for the manufacturer to sort out. I don't hold that against them or the product... excellence is a process, not a destination... find a problem and fix it, then improve the process for the next iteration. However, the Operator's Manual issue really needs to be addressed quickly to prevent damage from over-fill. Can-Am/BRP should be on the phone calling every owner and mailing out addendum sheets for their manual."


I think we are finding several problematic issues with this first-gen product in both assembly and QC. Hopefully, BRP will step up and resolve the problems without the customers having to bend over backwards.

@Leland : do we have any details on that alignment issue? I'd like to see if that info helps my dealer sort out my "tail wag", or what the dealer referred to as "crabbing". I advised that it's a little more than crabbing because it doesn't return to center after the walk... it would just keep going to the curb, or the 18-wheeler next to me. It requires VERY active/alert steering inputs/corrections to keep it in check. I made another video this morning of the ride to the dealer (not published yet), where I commented that I was actually looking forward to the stop lights... that's not good.

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QM

[Leland]

@Leland : do we have any details on that alignment issue? I'd like to see if that info helps my dealer sort out my "tail wag", or what the dealer referred to as "crabbing". I advised that it's a little more than crabbing because it doesn't return to center after the walk... it would just keep going to the curb, or the 18-wheeler next to me. It requires VERY active/alert steering inputs/corrections to keep it in check. I made another video this morning of the ride to the dealer (not published yet), where I commented that I was actually looking forward to the stop lights... that's not good.

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QM

@QM.

I just made an update to my posting #79 above. I went back to the RykerLovers Facebook and found a description regarding the photos Lamont posted. The screw is used to center the steering during alignment from what I can tell by his description. I'm sorry I don't have any useful information on how to align a Ryker. If your dealer contacts Lamont aka Lamonster he will be able to talk to one of the best in the world. If you need help getting his contact information please let me know.

Here is the RykerLovers Facebook page, if you drill down a few entries you will see Lamont's hand hold a screw, you can open the photos and look at the laser marks of the bike he is working on. Other than that bit of data that is all I can offer currently. https://www.facebook.com/groups/RykerLovers/

UPDATE: I have read two comments of riders complaining of the Rykers being darty, or wandering at highway speeds, a third person said that they had the same problem but their dealer did an alignment and everything was okay now. That last one happened to be a Ryker 600cc model. You can find this on RykerLovers. It does confirm the fact that Rykers much like Spyders want the front end setup correct and at that point they will track fine. That is good news, but the Ryker 600cc owner did not give any details.

[Peter Aawen]

Sounds good to me. However, I don't understand your "perceived 'Issue'" comment where the gearbox oil issue is concerned. This has been confirmed in my case (not dry, but 30% under-filled) and a few others from what I understand. Or am I misinterpreting your reply? I realize that there have been a few other developments since this quote.
...... snip ......
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QM

I think you're misinterpreting. ;)

I'm pretty sure that was just a comment to highlight the all inclusive nature of what should &/or would be allowed in the thread - BJR agreed with me that we didn't want people to think that they couldn't post up here because their particular issue with gearbox oil concerns hadn't yet been the subject of an alert or TSB. If they thought they had an issue that related, they should post it up. :thumbup:

It does sound like your dealer is handling this pretty well tho - at least now, anyway! :2thumbs:

[QuasiMotard]

There is another comment in one of my YouTube videos that is a totally new issue: dying in traffic (at idle, I presume) because of a spark plug issue? I tried to upload/attach a PNG picture of the comments, but I keep getting an "invalid file" error from the forum. The user mentioned that she is here in the Houston area and took it back to the dealer and got the spark plug diagnosis.

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

I think you're misinterpreting. ;)

I'm pretty sure that was just a comment to highlight the all inclusive nature of what should &/or would be allowed in the thread - BJR agreed with me that we didn't want people to think that they couldn't post up here because their particular issue with gearbox oil concerns hadn't yet been the subject of an alert or TSB. If they thought they had an issue that related, they should post it up. :thumbup:

It does sound like your dealer is handling this pretty well tho - at least now, anyway! :2thumbs:

Agreed. As I stated before, I like this dealer and they are usually good to me. This bad delivery was unexpected for sure. I'm not sure if it's a case of simple human error, or if somebody was just flat lazy. The repeated insistence that they did the TSB/recall when I knew it was false is what irked me. I followed the fill/check procedure and added 140-150 mL to the box on video. When they figured out that I had all of the info and that I REALLY did the service myself, they acquiesced and admitted that it was an error on their part.

So, the real question in my mind is this: If I had taken it back to them as-is and let them "re-check" their work, would they have really redone the PDI, or just glossed over it again with the standard response that everyone else seems to be getting from their dealers, "it was just a little bit low, so they sent me on my way". How many other Rykers are having this (and other) QC issues? If the dealers aren't reporting this stuff and/or not really doing the work, then the manufacturer's hands are tied... can't improve the product without the prerequisite feedback and error/failure rates in the product.

I'm not curious because I'm looking for ammunition to fire back at BRP. I'm interested because I want any/all issues with my Ryker addressed while they are fresh, fixable and covered under warranty. It's mine, paid cash out the door, done. Now I want to ride it and not worry about the BS.

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QM

[QuasiMotard]

@QM.

I just made an update to my posting #79 above. I went back to the RykerLovers Facebook and found a description regarding the photos Lamont posted. The screw is used to center the steering during alignment from what I can tell by his description. I'm sorry I don't have any useful information on how to align a Ryker. If your dealer contacts Lamont aka Lamonster he will be able to talk to one of the best in the world. If you need help getting his contact information please let me know.

Here is the RykerLovers Facebook page, if you drill down a few entries you will see Lamont's hand hold a screw, you can open the photos and look at the laser marks of the bike he is working on. Other than that bit of data that is all I can offer currently. https://www.facebook.com/groups/RykerLovers/

UPDATE: I have read two comments of riders complaining of the Rykers being darty, or wandering at highway speeds, a third person said that they had the same problem but their dealer did an alignment and everything was okay now. That last one happened to be a Ryker 600cc model. You can find this on RykerLovers. It does confirm the fact that Rykers much like Spyders want the front end setup correct and at that point they will track fine. That is good news, but the Ryker 600cc owner did not give any details.

I have received numerous comments on my YouTube vids from other Ryker owners regarding alignment issues. In those cases, the problem was apparently diagnosed by the dealers as definitely being out of alignment and then resolved. So, it's apparently becoming a "known issue" to the community at large, thanks to these discussion threads and the YouTube videos. That's all we can hope for, is to share knowledge and improve the process for all.

Another user just posted a juicy morsel regarding the laser alignment procedures on the Spyder's. If it works on Spyders, then it stands to reason that the same process will work on Rykers (with the appropriate hub adapters and tech specs, of course). Here is Shawn Smoak's video for anybody that hasn't found it already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjvYrjhsdWg&t=483s

The context of my post on YouTube is here for reference:



Brett Neindorf 22 hours ago
Sounds like an alignment problem,Shawn Smoak did a vid on a Spyder laser alignment,sounds similar problems to yours.

QuasiMotard 13 hours ago
Good news, thx for that. I will search for Smoak's video on the topic. His videos are one of the primary reasons that I pulled the trigger on this purchase! It looks like such a hoot to ride.. minimalist and rowdy, a real hooligan toy if you want to misbehave. Unfortunately in my case, it's doing all of the misbehaving without my consent, and I can't ride it until this nonsense is resolved. If I WANT the tail to wag, then it should be in a power slide or let-the-smoke-out tire roast because my right wrist has found the WOT stop in "Rally Mode"! ;-)

Brett Neindorf 4 hours ago
@QuasiMotard I looked up the vlog of Shawn Smoak, here's the link,hope it helps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjvYrjhsdWg&t=483s

QuasiMotard 35 minutes ago
@Brett Neindorf BEAUTIFUL! That's an absolutely fantastic catch, sir! I must also pay homage to Shawn Smoak... credit given where credit is due. I plan to circulate that clip throughout the forums and scream it from the hilltops. So many people (including the dealer) thought it was in my head! They said it probably has the usual Spyder "crabbing" behavior and not to worry about it. ;-) I hope that my dealer has the prerequisite equipment to do this process (hub adapters, alignment boards, etc). They are a Spyder shop, but the Ryker is new and has a different hub type... we'll see. I will take this new information to them first thing Tuesday morning to see what they say. Hell, at this point, if I thought it would help... I'd buy a 65" QLED HDTV and a Roku Ultra with this video stuck on an infinite play loop and deliver it to their service bay... strap the PDI service tech's into chairs with duct tape, wedge their eyelids open, and make them watch for a while... Clockwork Orange style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E51-2B8gHtk



It's amazing what a little community teamwork can do! Isn't modern technology and communication grand? It makes it so unnecessary to wallow in a vacuum of ignorance or denial. Seek and ye shall find, research and ye shall learn. :read: :clap:

Regarding the forced dealer re-education session that I mentioned in my YouTube comments above: there are a few other people that might benefit from that therapy. I'll have to work up a list of attendees and logistics to see if I can swing it. Here is my rough draft of the curriculum: presenting the laser alignment video, PDI check procedures, and TSB/recall notices to the students. Maybe we can arrange electroshock therapy for the repeat offenders? :roflblack:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E51-2B8gHtk

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

I think that I may have shocked the natives around here. If so, I extend my apologies. I couldn't resist the humor... it's my way of rationalizing my misfortune and "fixing" this problem.

More developments on the Ryker alignment issues... I have received several more reports from Ryker owners about their bikes being "darty" and other alignment ails. Two of these reviewers have thanked me for bringing these issues to light and posting the video showing the tail wag at speed. They were also told, or made to believe, that this behavior is "normal" for the Sypders and Rykers. Now they realize that they might not be crazy, and they might not have wasted their money on a nearly unridable machine. One particular viewer's comments are below:




PatriotNC1 • 15 hours ago
Sir, my Rally is having the same issues. Pulls to one side, and darts left and right. Can't get it much past 40 mph, and it becomes a real battle. I noticed on your other video that you took it back to your dealer. Please let me know if they came up with a solution to the problem. Thanks. - CJ

PatriotNC1 • 16 hours ago
Sir, I have the exact same problem your having. Darting left and right, won't track straight. It's a handful. Could you let me know what you Can-Am dealer comes up with on this? I'd really like to know how they fix it. Thanks for putting this video up, now I know I'm not imagining things. - C.J.


I think that we can reasonably conclude that there is a significant enough number of Rykers out in the wild that have this symptom... enough to confirm the "issue" status. I'm a YouTube "nobody"... so if people are finding my videos, then it means that those people are really desperate and searching for answers. How many other Ryker owners haven't resorted to searching YouTube and are relying on their dealers to either fix the problem(s) or tell them "everything is OK, it's normal, don't worry about it." They owners aren't crazy... they have the seat time to figure it out.

I hope that BRP can work up a recall on the issue, so it doesn't give the Ryker (at least MY Ryker) a busted lip to go along with the black eye (the gearbox and skipped PDI debacle). I'm along for the ride, for better or worse. The problem is that of the cost associated with the proper alignment equipment... "$2500" as my dealer stated. They don't plan to purchase it. So, where does that leave ANY customer that receives a problematic Ryker from them? Are these tools readily-available for dealers to purchase, and if so, how long will it take to receive them? Could dealers "rent" or borrow the tools from BRP in order to remediate the faulty Rykers that they received? BRP logistics issue indeed.

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

Here is another minor, but annoying issue related with the Ryker shipping and/or dealer uncrating logistics. My unit came with significant scratches on both upper A-arms. They stated that it was crate and shipping damage. That is apparently NOT the whole truth. A friendly YouTube viewer just threw this nice piece of information my way, courtesy of the Smoak's VLOGs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-03U8hTDUfY&t=680s

My response back to Shawn is below:



QuasiMotard 1 minute ago
Shawn: Thank you so much for detailing the Ryker uncrating and initial assembly caveats, beginning at 11:20 of your video. My dealer must have done EXACTLY what you described. They mistakenly scratched up the A-arms on both sides of my bike... pretty deep in some spots, all the way through the powdercoat. Perhaps BRP should note that potential issue by wrapping those arms with more padding and/or bright CAUTION tape? It is done all the time with aftermarket parts and computer equipment while in transit containers. Even the part itself will have bright yellow stickers with a warning label. Just my thoughts on how to prevent the error. Keep up the great vids! They are a true blessing to the community!


--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

OK, Can-Am/BRP just sent me an email earlier today regarding customer service and satisfaction with the dealer. You asked for it, you got it, Toyota... The gloves are off, and the gauntlet has been thrown down... The final page of the survey asked for a detailed description, to which I replied...



I have always had good interactions with this dealer, and I would like to salvage the relationship if possible. However, my last experience purchasing the 2019 Ryker Rally on 01/18/2019 has been a complete disaster. There were several dealer errors in assembly resulting in damages, improper preparation, skipped PDI checks, performance of safety recall/bulletin checks, and acknowledgement of these errors. I have detailed documentation, pictures, and video evidence of the problems posted on YouTube and various community forums.

The dealer seems unable or disinterested in fixing these issues, and has advised that they are relaying my complaints to BRP. This dealer does not have, nor plans to purchase, the laser alignment kit in order to fix an unsafe alignment condition. I have not received any communication from BRP, so I am effectively a victim of "caveat emptor" thus far. That is not a good impression upon BRP, and definitely not acceptable for a new road-legal vehicle sold in the USA. This doesn't bode well for the reputation of either Can-Am/BRP or for the dealer.

I can be reached by phone or email with the details recorded on my VIN and/or the BRP case #01737793 for remediation efforts.

Thank you for your attention in this matter.


We'll see how that little mic drop plays out. I'm tired of being on the wrong end of this deal. It will be to be TWO WEEKS this Friday, and I STILL have an undriveable vehicle that's sitting at the dealer, waiting for someone to give a SH*T. The dealer is definitely culpable here... BRP is radio silent for over 11 days. This is not a good first impression for someone new to the BRP family.

--
QM

[Freddy]

That's the standard procedure from BRP but there is the rare exception. The very same wheel alignment issue has been there from day 1 with Spyder. It ain't a new phenomenon.

[RykerUSA]

I absolutely agree with the post above. This is not a new issue. It has been around since the advent of Can Am 3 wheelers. The fix is easy. Laser alignment. Even though my alignment is pretty decent right now from delivery. I will still have it laser aligned because I wanted perfect. I did this with my 1st Spyder ST Limited and was thrilled every mile thereafter.

[QuasiMotard]

... The fix is easy. Laser alignment...


I couldn't agree more. This isn't my first rodeo in the motorsports world. I have an above-average mechanical ability due to my years and experience playing with my toys.

SO, why wouldn't the dealer(s) admit to the obvious truth that NOBODY would accept that tail-wagging nonsense from a car or motorcycle? It's not road-worthy, plain and simple. How is that "normal"? Why doesn't BRP include the prerequisite tool sets (laser alignment set) with each new model (not every bike, but every dealer's prep pack for that model)? And better yet, why isn't that deemed to be a MANDATORY safety item that is provided by BRP or a BRP-mandated dealer purchase?

The facts are very clear in my case: the vehicle is NOT safe to operate on public roadways, so that is a violation of federal and state safety standards. This situation is a combination of manufacturer and dealer malfeasance and/or negligence. That spells disaster for the consumer/owner/operator, and one that will affect the consumer first, then walk its way up the chain to the source (BRP) until someone is forced to resolve it. If my case doesn't start the ball rolling, someone else's will. If left unchecked, BRP might not be able to sell Rykers in the USA due to these safety issues.

--
QM

[RykerUSA]

I felt the same way about my first Spyder alignment issue. But I got over it and spent $130 for lazer alignment. Life's too sort tomiss out on loosing miles on a perfectly aligned Spyder / Ryker.

[Rob Rodriguez]

Apparently BRP feels its more important to force dealers into buying $10K Ryker merchandising walls rather than laser alignment tools.

[QuasiMotard]

I felt the same way about my first Spyder alignment issue. But I got over it and spent $130 for lazer alignment. Life's too sort tomiss out on loosing miles on a perfectly aligned Spyder / Ryker.

Agreed. I don't mind paying the money or taking it elsewhere, and that's probably going to be the outcome here. I'm just waiting for the dealer to untie my new pony from the hitching post, so I can ride off into the sunset. I need to search for another dealer that DOES have the alignment tools... So, I'm off to scour the interwebs and make lots of phone calls to service departments across Texas today. If a GOOD dealer is more than 30-45 miles away, then I'll have to trailer this tail-happy puppy for safety's sake. Again, more money out of my pocket, which is ridiculous.

That still doesn't resolve the dealer misconduct or the damaged A-arm issues. Live and learn, I guess.

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

Apparently BRP feels its more important to force dealers into buying $10K Ryker merchandising walls rather than laser alignment tools.

:agree: That. [... mic dropping onto soapbox...]

--
QM

[Easy Rider]

The fix is easy. Laser alignment.

But the critical part of that isn't often mentioned in the discussion.

The key is to get a GOOD alignment, which means going a bit beyond the BRP recommended settings......AND getting both sides the same.

My dealer has the laser alignment equipment but is waffling on doing anything outside of the BRP recommended "specs".

I am a bit lucky in that I'm not far from the "factory" where the laser equipment is made and can go there if necessary.
But that isn't the case for a lot of folks and it should not be necessary for anybody.

BRP SUCKS when it comes to customer service.
Good companies LISTEN to their customers and pay attention when a LOT of them are saying the same thing.
BRP is deaf and dumb.

I'm gonna keep my Spyder because I have too much tied up in it to go back now...................
BUT I really, REALLY wish I had test ridden a Goldwing trike before I got the Spyder.

[Easy Rider]

I need to search for another dealer that DOES have the alignment tools...

Look here: www.spydercomfort.com They make the laser alignment equipment and have a list of dealers.

Look here for an explanation of what needs to be done and why: www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/spyderwheels.html

Just "doing an alignment" to the BRP supplied spec's isn't good enough.

[QuasiMotard]

But the critical part of that isn't often mentioned in the discussion.

The key is to get a GOOD alignment, which means going a bit beyond the BRP recommended settings......AND getting both sides the same.

My dealer has the laser alignment equipment but is waffling on doing anything outside of the BRP recommended "specs".


I'd settle for straight and true... not perfect, but straight. BRP specs would be a good starting point at the very simplest. I hope not to offend anyone by asking/insisting, but watch my YouTube video about my ride back to the dealer. The effect is patently obvious... it's not safe to ride in city traffic, and downright dangerous at freeway speeds.

The VLOG is a bit long, but the first effect is really noticeable when I get on the freeway at the 13:13 marker. Also keep in mind that my GoPro Hero7 Black has image stabilization that masks most of the REAL twitchy behavior... it is smoothed out of the final product. In reality, the bike is always twitchy and nervous... it is a constant battle to keep it tracking straight at any speed. The first freeway jaunt lasts a couple of minutes and then I jump off the freeway to stop playing motorized Russian Roulette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1194&v=TBTc_61bwgM&t=793s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBTc_61bwgM&t=793s

--
QM

[QuasiMotard]

Look here: www.spydercomfort.com They make the laser alignment equipment and have a list of dealers.

Look here for an explanation of what needs to be done and why: www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/spyderwheels.html

Just "doing an alignment" to the BRP supplied spec's isn't good enough.

BTW... I just digested the info in your second link (lindsayroland.com). That's great stuff, thanks for the link. I am reaching out to several of the "Texas dealers" and independents on the SpyderComfort (True Laser Track) site. I haven't found any hits so far, as the information seems to be outdated on many of the dealers, but I did find a possible hit from the "independent" section that is here in Houston, TX. I'll post back with any updates, in case anyone in this area needs a similar service.

As for the original/primary dealer, they don't want to mess with it any further. I called the service mgr this evening, and he advised that it has been sitting there for days waiting to be picked up... apparently untouched despite my invitation to let all of the service personnel ride/flog it to make their opinions known... (no calls, no news, no "we're working on it updates"). I'm planning to pick it up from them tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday if the weather permits.

I found another local dealer that is willing to tear into it and give me a second opinion on what's "normal". I'll be paying standard shop rate for the assessment initially ($129/hr, prob 2 hrs minimum) to get their diagnosis. Their backlog is currently about 2 weeks, but that service mgr said that he would do his best to line-cut the queue if possible. If they find anything seriously out of spec that might indicate an impact or other damaged part, then we'll escalate from there (e.g. warranty, primary dealer complaint, etc). In any case, this secondary dealer will align it to the best of their ability (and to my satisfaction) and I'll take it as-is. What's a few hundred more bucks in the long run?

After that point, whether aligned properly or not, I plan to have the laser alignment performed somewhere... even if I have to trailer it to another state. Whether it's stable enough to ride there or not will determine if that trip will be as a road warrior or a trailer queen. I'm determined to resolve this issue now for the greater good of the community. I'm out the cash one way or another, so hopefully someone else can benefit from my trials and tribulations. I'll report back with the details, good or bad... maybe I'm crazy, maybe not.

--
QM

[Freddy]

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

[Easy Rider]

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

Good luck with that one.
They generally don't care about motorcycles.
And they don't REALLY care about other complaints either unless and until they get enough of them that it looks like a serious, widespread and verifiable problem.

Most of the handling "problem" with a 3 wheel vehicle is just inherent in having 3 wheels running in different tracks on the road.
A proper alignment will help.
Proper and balanced tire pressure will help.
Better tires might help......but the tread pattern is important.
Time-in-seat helps a LOT too.
But when one wheel wants to move in a direction that the other two do NOT, that is a problem that "design" can't fix.

[ARtraveler]

A word of caution for those involved in the above mechanical issues.

Do NOT threaten BRP with any litigation. They will immediately "let their lawyers" take care of businesss. The result will be...no more direct communication with BRP.

[QuasiMotard]

A word of caution for those involved in the above mechanical issues.

Do NOT threaten BRP with any litigation. They will immediately "let their lawyers" take care of businesss. The result will be...no more direct communication with BRP.

Yep, so I've heard.

That posture is to be expected of any large corporation because of the intricacies and liabilities of any communication with the consumer after their intention to litigate has been made. I have tried to keep this as level and open as possible without even discussing the dealer buy-back or other remediation paths. I just want the dealer to fixed their mistakes and certify that the machine is operating "safely". Then I plan to try going down the "BRP Cares" path to get an extension to my warranty... just in case I have any other surprises ahead of me. I typically keep my bikes for 6+ years, so my current 4-year warranty (and my current set of circumstances) lends me to believe that might not be enough.

--
QM

[karg]

Hi,

I was going to buy a Ryker, but because of the previous comments, I have decided not to, at least not until they have these issues resolved. If enough of us won't buy, then maybe, just maybe, someone will take care of these issues.
-Thanks

[Freddy]

There's a world of difference between threatening litigation and reporting valid vehicle safety issues to the appropriate authority, regardless of dealer diligence.

[Freddy]

Hi,

I was going to buy a Ryker, but because of the previous comments, I have decided not to, at least not until they have these issues resolved. If enough of us won't buy, then maybe, just maybe, someone will take care of these issues.
-Thanks


It hasn't stopped BRP from unloading unroadworthy trikes on the general public in the past. This is just another example. :banghead:

[007james]

I really believe BRP will eventually take care of this problem. Its too serious to keep ignoring, considering the 20 Units per Dealer, plus the Ten Grand Display they forced each of their Dealers to invest in , in order to remain a Dealer. But considering they have had this Alighnment problem since Spyders came out in 2008, and their Alighnment procedures have never worked, I knew these Rykers would be even more hazardous to drive in traffic on the Freeways over 50 MPH. My 2012 RT Limited was aligned several times using the Factory procedures, but kept wearing my front tires to the cord on the inside walls at 12,000-13,000 miles for the first 44,000 miles, until I finally caved in and paid the $169.00 charge to get the ROLO Alighnment done by a Dealer close by whose’s Service sucks to High Heaven. But they did invest in the ROLO Alignment Kit, where my preferred Dealer, 50 miles away has not. But with these Rykers, BRP will be forced to either provide the ROLO Kit to all Dealers, or make 100% certain they come out of the Factory properly aligned. My 2012 was fine, after the ROLO $169 Alighnment, plus, I had my 2016 RT Limited alligned before I took delivery, and my front OEM Kenda tires did still wear a lot more on the inside, but lasted 27,500 miles before I changed them out to Car tires. BRP finally worked with the Guy’s Dealer who got stuck in Winslow, Arizona, to finally get his entire Wiring Harness replaced, after his Waurentee expired, as I remember, so the “ Squeaky Wheel” finally got greased with out Litigation. Keep squeaking! Also, last Summer, when I was getting blown off with bogus excuses by tne Dealer who sold me my 2016 RT Limited, and my Spyder was tied up for 2-1/2 months in the Shop not getting fixed for the failing front Sprocket Pulleys, I contacted BRP direct, and their Service Rep. got my Spyder Fix expedited by the Dealer who kept blowing smoke up my Butt and treating me like a Mushroom. ( keeping me in the dark and feeding me poop.) I asked BRP to extend my Factory Waurentee, and they came through, and granted me an Extra 4 months for my 2-1/2 months of Summer down time and my Dealer related aggrivation and Stress. So, BRP came thru for me as they did for the Winslow Arizona Wiring Harness Guy, plus we Spyder Owners should NEVER forget the 2013 Spyders with the Hot Seats that were catching on fire before BRP finally had a Recall on all 2013s and did Custom fixes to cool them down. But all the 2013 Owners and Dealers who still had unsold 2013s lost their butts on resales, because only Fools or Neophites would buy any 2013 at normal prices with out getting almost Salvage Deals on them. So, it will be intersting to see how the Ryker Allignment problems are going to be played out by BRP and their Dealers. I know if I was a BRP Dealer and had my Order in for the 20 Rykers BRP had forced on me, and I only had 4 of them dilvered so far, I’d surely cancel the order for the remaing 16 Units until BRP either guranteed Alignment out of the Factory, or cut me one hell of a deal on a ROLO Allghment Kit along with a week end Training Course for my Tech training him how to use it!



Yep, so I've heard.

That posture is to be expected of any large corporation because of the intricacies and liabilities of any communication with the consumer after their intention to litigate has been made. I have tried to keep this as level and open as possible without even discussing the dealer buy-back or other remediation paths. I just want the dealer to fixed their mistakes and certify that the machine is operating "safely". Then I plan to try going down the "BRP Cares" path to get an extension to my warranty... just in case I have any other surprises ahead of me. I typically keep my bikes for 6+ years, so my current 4-year warranty (and my current set of circumstances) lends me to believe that might not be enough.

--
QM

[jcthorne]

Its not just the cost of the tools. MANY dealers bought the Rolo laser alignment tools for the Spyders and never did one alignment for customers. Or worse, did them VERY wrong. Its not like using a Hunter alignment machine that tells you to move bolt A 3 turns. There are angles, measurements etc to be calculated and while not rocket science, for those not familiar, there is a learning curve that has shown to be too difficult for some dealers to master. Many dealers refer their customers to local shops that specialize in the Rolo laser alignments. Our local dealers do this.

For the Ryker, there is one more fly in the ointment at the moment. Soon to be resolved. Rolo does not yet have the hub adaptors for the Ryker available. They are a few weeks out. We and other Rolo shops have them on order.

They Spyders went through this as well. A proper laser alignment will sort out a lot of the driving twitch issues being complained about. BRP has never covered these alignements under warranty. I suspect its one more reason dealers do not bother investing in the tools. There is no return on the investment, all owners would expect the alignment for 'free'. Its easier to send them to an outside shop. Not saying the situation is right, just what it is and has been for years now. If its any consolation, Polaris and Vanderhall are the same way.....(we align those too).

[Easy Rider]

Hi,

I was going to buy a Ryker, but because of the previous comments, I have decided not to, at least not until they have these issues resolved. If enough of us won't buy, then maybe, just maybe, someone will take care of these issues.
-Thanks

This "issue" is similar or exactly the same as how the original Spyders handled......and still do to this day.
They could help the problem a LOT by being sure that the alignment is right when new machines go out the door......but that would first require them to admit the problem.......which they aren't likely to do.
BRPs customer service generally SUCKS.
Don't hold your breath for it to get better.

[Easy Rider]

There are angles, measurements etc to be calculated and while not rocket science, for those not familiar, there is a learning curve that has shown to be too difficult for some dealers to master.

I'm surprised that some of the "grease monkeys" that call themselves mechanics these days can find their way to work every morning BUT.......

I think that statement above is just a bit misleading.
There is only ONE parameter in the alignment that can be adjusted, right ? And there is only ONE adjustment to change that setting.....right ??
And the math involved is really complicated; something like multiplying the desired actual setting by 5 to get the setting on the laser target.....right ??

MY problem so far hasn't been finding a dealer with the equipment but with convincing them to go just a tiny bit beyond the BRP recommended setting.......and that nothing will blow up if they do that.

I'm about to give up on them, which is sad because I really liked dealing with them most of the time.

[jcthorne]

I'm surprised that some of the "grease monkeys" that call themselves mechanics these days can find their way to work every morning BUT.......

I think that statement above is just a bit misleading.
There is only ONE parameter in the alignment that can be adjusted, right ? And there is only ONE adjustment to change that setting.....right ??
And the math involved is really complicated; something like multiplying the desired actual setting by 5 to get the setting on the laser target.....right ??

MY problem so far hasn't been finding a dealer with the equipment but with convincing them to go just a tiny bit beyond the BRP recommended setting.......and that nothing will blow up if they do that.

I'm about to give up on them, which is sad because I really liked dealing with them most of the time.

And that is why most dealers never figured it out. Nope there is more to it than that. I know what you think you know, toe, is all that is adjusted but its not that simple. First its adjusted on both sides to reference the correct thrust vector, then there is aligning the DPS and torque sensors to match the new alignment settings. IE the toe has to be centered on the rear wheel thrust line and the DPS zero point must match as well as zero steering torque at that point.

Lastly, there ARE NO BRP SPECS for a proper laser alignment setting. The specs they reference are to the frame, not the rear wheel thrust line. Also they are with fixed length struts bolted in where the shocks and springs are normally. For most Spyders they are NOT the same and the BRP method results in a very poor alignment. BRP has endorsed the Rolo laser method but does not provide specs for it. Rolo does.

[WilliamTRyker]

For most Spyders they are NOT the same and the BRP method results in a very poor alignment.

I was considering bringing in my Ryker to the dealer for a manual (non-laser) alignment but from what was just explained, would that make things worse from the OOTB alignment issues that folks have been having?

[jcthorne]

Just take it to a Rolo laser alignment shop. Forget the BRP method. Could be better, could be worse, will not be right.

[ryker]

I had a 2012 spyder RS, traded it in 2016. During that time i never noticed any alignment issues. So was i just not savvy enough to notice or is it a sporadic problem? i pick up my ryker tomorrow

[jcthorne]

Some are worse than others. But I can tell you of the many we have had in our shop for alignment, only one was correct from the factory. He got a freebie. I think Ann (Squared Away) has had 2 or 3. Its a very small number.

[Freddy]

This "issue" is similar or exactly the same as how the original Spyders handled......and still do to this day.
They could help the problem a LOT by being sure that the alignment is right when new machines go out the door......but that would first require them to admit the problem.......which they aren't likely to do.
BRPs customer service generally SUCKS.
Don't hold your breath for it to get better.


Amen to that bro.

[Easy Rider]

BRP has endorsed the Rolo laser method but does not provide specs for it. Rolo does.

My dealer has the equipment but doesn't seem to know THIS.
I may need to remind them.

Actually I'm going to Daytona in a couple of weeks and might just visit "the factory" while I'm there and get it done right.

[Easy Rider]

So was i just not savvy enough to notice or is it a sporadic problem? i pick up my ryker tomorrow

It is not a matter of "savvy" but one of rider sensitivity.
And what kind of riding and roads you do.

Some riders never experience any problem.......or just adapt without thinking about it.

I bet there are THOUSANDS of owners out there who would be amazed if they got to ride one that is properly aligned.

[RykerUSA]

To this point, I have always been amazed at how many spyders are for sale with less than a 1000 miles on them. My hunch is these owners don't realize that they are not in proper alignment and do not like the ride.

[Easy Rider]

To this point, I have always been amazed at how many spyders are for sale with less than a 1000 miles on them. My hunch is these owners don't realize that they are not in proper alignment and do not like the ride.

I second that hunch.
But some people just find that they don't like riding (anything) as much as they thought they would.

[QuasiMotard]

Well, finally some truly positive news in all of this drama... BRP has updated the Ryker Operator's Manual in their download site: http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=8879abc3-258c-4bb1-a36d-0294a504c709

I haven't reviewed all of the updates, but they have added a significant number of new diagrams and procedures. For example, the gearbox oil check/fill procedures are now moved down to pp.105-108 (previously pp.103-104). They have included the expanded diagrams and verbiage for the component locations.

Excellent work! I hope that they advise all current owners and dealers where to obtain the new manual. I have already printed the updated version and bound it in a 3-ring binder.

--
QM

[BajaRon]

[QUOTE=RykerUSA;1419213]To this point, I have always been amazed at how many spyders are for sale with less than a 1000 miles on them. My hunch is these owners don't realize that they are not in proper alignment and do not like the ride.[/QUOTE

Though this issue may be part of the problem. I think it is more that people just do not give the Spyder a chance. They come off of 2 wheels and ride just enough to get aggravated that the Spyder is much different than a 2 wheeled machine. They want the Spyder to fit their riding style and experience. But to really enjoy the Spyder, you have to modify your riding style to fit the machine. It is more than some want to do.

Sometimes it's more of a mind set than a flaw in the machine.

[amachoward]

Thanks for the information. My dealer said to check the final drive. Now I have checked both gearbox and final drive on both machines. Added as needed and am ready to go.

For those checking the final drive. A round end 8mm allen will allow for easy enough access with the wheel turned to an opening and a small syringe works well for adding fluid.

Happy riding.
Mac

[WilliamTRyker]

I think it is more that people just do not give the Spyder a chance. They come off of 2 wheels and ride just enough to get aggravated that the Spyder is much different than a 2 wheeled machine.

Do you think the retention rate (longer term owners) is higher amongst non previous 2-wheel riders?

[Tslepebull]

Well, finally some truly positive news in all of this drama... BRP has updated the Ryker Operator's Manual in their download site: http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/Index.aspx?lang=E&s1=8879abc3-258c-4bb1-a36d-0294a504c709

I haven't reviewed all of the updates, but they have added a significant number of new diagrams and procedures. For example, the gearbox oil check/fill procedures are now moved down to pp.105-108 (previously pp.103-104). They have included the expanded diagrams and verbiage for the component locations.

Excellent work! I hope that they advise all current owners and dealers where to obtain the new manual. I have already printed the updated version and bound it in a 3-ring binder.

--
QM

Nice to see that Can-Am is responsive to the concerns of their customers. Maybe now they can address the discrepancy between their predicted fuel economy and what the owners are actually getting. I believe they will do the right thing.

[BajaRon]

Do you think the retention rate (longer term owners) is higher amongst non previous 2-wheel riders?

I don't know. But my experience is, those who have no 2 wheel experience take to the Spyder/Ryker much more readily right out of the gate than those with moderate to extensive 2 wheel experience. It's a mental thing going from one to the other. Those with little or no experience do not carry the 2 wheel ingrained, instinctive mental baggage that seems to be a big, initial hindrance. Believe me, I experienced it.

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of good habits that transfer from 2 wheels to 3. But there are other habits that don't work well at all. Bottom line is, it's USUALLY not the machine (not withstanding really bad alignment issues), it's the rider. Some will accept this truth and they end up with a huge smile on their face. Those who don't or won't acknowledge this fact tend not to last very long.

[Tslepebull]

I don't know. But my experience is, those who have no 2 wheel experience take to the Spyder/Ryker much more readily right out of the gate than those with moderate to extensive 2 wheel experience. It's a mental thing going from one to the other. Those with little or no experience do not carry the 2 wheel ingrained, instinctive mental baggage that seems to be a big, initial hindrance. Believe me, I experienced it.

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of good habits that transfer from 2 wheels to 3. But there are other habits that don't work well at all. Bottom line is, it's USUALLY not the machine (not withstanding really bad alignment issues), it's the rider. Some will accept this truth and they end up with a huge smile on their face. Those who don't or won't acknowledge this fact tend not to last very long.

I could not agree more and think what you are identifying is pre-conceived notion. For example, my experience is that it is easier to teach a novice to shoot well than someone with some minor experience. There is no time wasted on breaking bad habits before teaching good ones.

[QuasiMotard]

Nice to see that Can-Am is responsive to the concerns of their customers. Maybe now they can address the discrepancy between their predicted fuel economy and what the owners are actually getting. I believe they will do the right thing.

I just received an email, and then a phone call from Olivier Dickson, a customer service representative from BRP! We talked about my issues and expectations, and he is setting up a conference call for tomorrow afternoon with their lead product developer for the Ryker platform! How's that for customer service?!!! It might have taken a few weeks to get the smoke signals up there, but they are definitely responding to my (our) concerns! Way to go BRP!

I'll post another update after the call tomorrow.

--
QM

[skullshark]

I just received an email, and then a phone call from Olivier Dickson, a customer service representative from BRP! We talked about my issues and expectations, and he is setting up a conference call for tomorrow afternoon with their lead product developer for the Ryker platform! How's that for customer service?!!! It might have taken a few weeks to get the smoke signals up there, but they are definitely responding to my (our) concerns! Way to go BRP!

I'll post another update after the call tomorrow.

--
QM

Thank You so much for all your time & effort & info regarding some issues with the Ryker. I will be getting mine in a few days and thanks to this forum & your youtube video I am aware of some issues and I will check the gearbox oil myself. If I find the alignment to be bad I will address that also.

Many of the Ryker buyers me included are first time bike owners & have little mechanical knowledge. Most people assume when they buy something brand new there shouldn't be any major issues. Knowing about these issues can save many people in costly repairs & headaches down the road.

Are there any new updates with the gearbox issue?

[McRuss]

I rode BMW motorcycles for years; they 'required' new washers on drain and fill plugs but I only changed them every four or five changes. Never had a leak. YMMV.

[bb12489]

I'm a new rider, and owner of a Ryker 600. First thing I noticed off the lot was the alignment issue. It's all over the place at high speeds. Unfortunately the communication with my dealer hasn't been great to say the least, and I know they don't have the laser alignment system. Do I have any other options?? Should I contact BRP and inform them of this? It's not sitting to well with me that I just spent all this money on a product that isn't properly configured for use.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I'm a new rider, and owner of a Ryker 600. First thing I noticed off the lot was the alignment issue. It's all over the place at high speeds. Unfortunately the communication with my dealer hasn't been great to say the least, and I know they don't have the laser alignment system. Do I have any other options?? Should I contact BRP and inform them of this? It's not sitting to well with me that I just spent all this money on a product that isn't properly configured for use.

Contacting BRP will do you no good. If they cared they would align them properly at the factory or require dealers to laser align them before they left their shop. Best thing you can do is find the closest dealer to you that does laser alignment

[jcthorne]

BRP does not cover laser alignments as a warranty item. Its on the owner unless the dealer wants to cover it. This is also why many dealers choose not to do them.

[skullshark]

I bought a Ryker 900 today. They will deliver it to me in a week. I like the look, ease of use, speed and affordable price but lately as people start using them I keep hearing all these issues with them.

I drove it in the dealer parking lot and every time you accelerate from stop it makes an extremely loud clank sound. Only if you accelerate very slowly will it not happen.

They told me its normal and they all do that. They drove the demo model and it did it also. There was also a guy there who's owned one for 2 months and he says his does it to.

Do you guys hear a loud clank when you accelerate? I guess this is related to low oil in the gearbox.

[CTAC]

I believe most owners will remark that it is "normal" to this machine. I personally do not believe the implementation is as good as it could be. With some practice, you can mitigate the clunk but it does take away from the spontaneity of operating the bike.

I received a phone call this evening from BRP asking me a slew of very specific questions regarding my opinions and suggestions for the Ryker. I voiced my biggest disappointment being the loud drivetrain. I told her don't get me wrong... I love the bike... just not the excessive gear lash and subsequent clunk... especially from reverse to forward. That transition startles me and my passenger sometimes.

I also echoed QuasiMotard's belief that BRP should ensure each Ryker is laser-aligned by the dealer prior to customer delivery. I suggested BRP offer to pay qualified laser alignment techs/shops to do this service for us current owners as a matter of safety.

[skullshark]

I believe most owners will remark that it is "normal" to this machine. I personally do not believe the implementation is as good as it could be. With some practice, you can mitigate the clunk but it does take away from the spontaneity of operating the bike.

I received a phone call this evening from BRP asking me a slew of very specific questions regarding my opinions and suggestions for the Ryker. I voiced my biggest disappointment being the loud drivetrain. I told her don't get me wrong... I love the bike... just not the excessive gear lash and subsequent clunk... especially from reverse to forward. That transition startles me and my passenger sometimes.

I also echoed QuasiMotard's belief that BRP should ensure each Ryker is laser-aligned by the dealer prior to customer delivery. I suggested BRP offer to pay qualified laser alignment techs/shops to do this service for us current owners as a matter of safety.

Being a 900cc fast bike most people are gonna wanna accelerate pretty quick from a light or stop sign. When I test rode it at the dealer it felt & sounded like someone hit the bike with hammer when I accelerated. It seems like you have to go really slow at first then accelerate faster for the clunk to not be as loud. When I accelerated from a dead stop it went bang. It felt like i'm damaging something. I only drove it for about 7 minutes so you guys would now way more about it.

[robhowen]

This is from David Levitt, Owner of Sierra Cycles and Can-Am Dealer:

Actually this was a Service Bulletin/Recall from January (attached as a word document because the pdf file size was too large). We had a failure here at the dealership on one of our units, so yes this is in fact a thing, although this was only for the first few units that shipped back in December. There is a huge red bulletin when you (the dealer I assume) go to register the sale with Can-Am making sure the repair (inspection) has been completed.

Ride safe!

David Levitt

Owner
Sierra Cycles
W (520)459-2589

[skullshark]

This is from David Levitt, Owner of Sierra Cycles and Can-Am Dealer:

Actually this was a Service Bulletin/Recall from January (attached as a word document). We had a failure here at the dealership on one of our units, so yes this is in fact a thing, although this was only for the first few units that shipped back in December. There is a huge red bulletin when you (the dealer I assume) go to register the sale with Can-Am making sure the repair (inspection) has been completed.

Ride safe!

David Levitt

Owner
Sierra Cycles
W (520)459-2589

Thank you for the document. I think I will check it myself for piece of mind.

[kmonroe99]

My Ryker purchased last spring had a completely burned up transmission/CVY within 100 miles. I never checked any of the fluids after purchase thinking that the dealer would have done that as part of the build and prep. I have no idea if it was done or not. It took almost 2 months to get the entire CVY unit replaced, thankfully under warranty.

[oregoncoast]

I agree. It took a few weeks to get used to 3 wheels, but stability of 3 is a huge advantage for me, especially in the wet. If your rear wheel starts fish-tailing it's not all that scary like on 2 wheels. I liked it right from the start, the drive lash sound rarely happened going forward but will always happen in reveres due the change in shaft direction. I can remember many old cars and trucks that also had the drive lash clunk. My fuel mileage on my 900 is up to 40mph. I bought a new horn that is much less polite and am hoping to get it installed shortly if the rain here ever stops.