BUDS diagnoses no contact in start button - my DIY Fix!

[ricrum]

I just want to pass-along some tech info that could be of some help to my fellow Spyder owners. I recently had (and fixed) an issue with an increasing no-start condition. Just for a bit of intro, wifey and I bought this 2010 Spyder RT-SE5 in January from a friend (who says he never experienced the problem with it). We knew that it needed a new battery, and it was changed immediately after purchase. Within a few months this intermittent start issue began, and at first it was just an inconvenience because after trying to start the bike a couple of times, it would eventually kick over. I say inconvenience because we bought it for my wife, and it’s what she uses to go to and from work. Bear with me - this is how to make a “short story long”!

Eventually (just over a month ago) it wouldn’t start no matter how much we wiggled and played with the engine kill switch and start button. I really had no idea what the actual problem was for certain because (as you all know) there are a number of things that have to occur correctly to get it started. After researching the internet for answers, the best I could find was that allot of the bikes (it seems) have this problem due to loosening ground (or negative) wire contact points at random locations around the bike. The most common fix suggested was to take off all of the body panels and start tracing/chasing-down all of the wires until the loose connection is found. I hate the sound of that, so I decided instead to purchase a BUDS system because even though I’m a very skilled do-it-yourselfer, these bikes have many things that can go wrong (7 control modules worth) - and I want to know for sure what it is. I prefer NOT to go at it myself with guess-work and all of the internet “disinformation” that’s available, and we can’t afford to have it looked at by a BRP service shop. Besides, the nearest one is 28 miles away.

Well after installation, the BUDS hardware/software told me immediately what was wrong. The start button wasn’t making contact. So I opened the multi-switch assembly (right-hand side, engine kill/cruise control/start button) only to find an array of tape (or ribbon) switches that are mechanically activated by the hardware toggle, slide and push buttons, and all of the ribbons lead to a factory sealed junction that leads out with a gang of bunched wires in a rubber tube going to the middle inside the handlebars, and ending in a multi-pin pigtail connector.

So back to the internet I go to discover that the only (FACTORY) fix for this is to replace the entire multi-switch/wire harness assembly. At around $130 JUST for the part(s) (and BEFORE a shop’s mark-up) - I decided to try another approach first. I researched electronics sites and found a low profile, circuit-board mount, DPST, momentary push-button switch that I was able to buy from Amazon. I couldn’t find a single one and had to buy a five-pack, but at $11 and change - it’s well worth it. Regarding clearance within the assembly, it turned-out to be a perfect fit! I cut off the old switch, scraped away a small bit of the tape covering the copper “traces” that ended inside the old switch, tinned those ends with solder, soldered the new switch to them, and then epoxied the new switch to the spot where the old switch was. I’ve included a few photos to show the old switch (and it’s soft rubber cover - next to it) alongside one of the new switches and it’s packaging (for part number reference). Also 2 pics of the new switch in place (top and edge view) before reassembly. It works perfectly now.

Yes the BUDS system is expensive, but I’m the machine’s mechanic (for the foreseeable future) and it has already saved me allot of time and effort, guessing, hair pulling, headaches and backaches. I hope this info will do the same for some of you and if I can assist further by answering any questions, please - ask away! Thanks for reading, and happy holidays.

[frj322]

Great write up and fix! Just curious where and how do you purchase the BUDS system? I'm sure we're talking about some sort of computer diagnostic program correct? As a former GM master tech I'm familiar with their system (now running 30-40 computers) per vehicle. How is the interface between the computer and the bike handled?

[safecracker]

Awesome repair. Great �� info. Bruce

[UtahPete]

Great write up and fix! Just curious where and how do you purchase the BUDS system? I'm sure we're talking about some sort of computer diagnostic program correct? As a former GM master tech I'm familiar with their system (now running 30-40 computers) per vehicle. How is the interface between the computer and the bike handled?

I'm interested in this also. Maybe a club could buy one for the benefit of members....hmmm

[Grandpot]

Nice job. I bought a BUDS system shortly after buying my 2011 RTS. Worth the money if you can work on the Spyder yourself.

[Chupaca]

Great repair...The way of the futute is good or replace and you are old school much like myself and will first find the way to repair it. :clap:
There was a pirate BUDS system selling for a time but BRP had to finally release the system to the public and you can get it through them. Don't know if cheapcycleparts.com has it. Thats where I shop for all oem parts and acc.:thumbup:

[UtahPete]

Here's an explanation of BUDS; http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/buds-how-it-works/

Here's one place to buy it I think; https://www.amazon.com/BUDS2-Diagnostic-Scanner-SEADOO-SKIDOO/dp/B06XP5XKRS/ref=pd_cp_263_1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=07D868824XHVQKBXZHPM&pd_rd_wg=hAbn1&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=4vlIm&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=fbb6c947-f109-11e8-b4a1-71fe8814db4b&pd_rd_i=B06XP5XKRS&psc=1&refRID=07D868824XHVQKBXZHPM

[trikermutha]

You have to buy the License once you get the hardware.

If you are only using it once in awhile it may not be worth all the money just to have a license for the day it breaks.

[canamjhb]

I read the explanation of BUDS. Looked at the price. Gave some thought about how BRP wants to keep diagnostic and repair to their own dealers. Thought about how sophisticated this system is. Then wondered why there are so many examples of breakdowns where dealers cannot fix the problem. Bikes sitting in shops for weeks and sometimes months. Lots of examples on this forum. Just wondering why all this has to be a big deep, dark, expensive secret when there are so many obvious faults in the system...... Just wondering.

[BigBlock]

Thanks for the write up and pictures. Greatly appreciated.

[youngers]

I read the explanation of BUDS. Looked at the price. Gave some thought about how BRP wants to keep diagnostic and repair to their own dealers. Thought about how sophisticated this system is. Then wondered why there are so many examples of breakdowns where dealers cannot fix the problem. Bikes sitting in shops for weeks and sometimes months. Lots of examples on this forum. Just wondering why all this has to be a big deep, dark, expensive secret when there are so many obvious faults in the system...... Just wondering.

most likely the problem of cycles in weeks of repair , get one cycle in like ric rum has had to fix , after getting it broken down , in comes 2 more cycles with easier things too repair and the shop advisor told those folks it would be 2 days ( now the original cycle is 2 or 3 days pushed back / providing they do not have a service contract rider ... and so the land slide of cycles is loading up , put in the mix of 1 or 2 repair guys , and one ends up sick :yikes: what a mess ! )

[SpyderAnn01]

If you have a 16 or older you can use BUDS but if you have a late build 17 or newer you need BUDS2. We require both for alignments but I cannot see purchasing it otherwise.

[trikermutha]

RICRUM - Bet it was pretty expense for a 5Year license. They do sell them for a shorter license too.

Basically you checked the circuit thru BUDS .

[Gonzo5776]

My 2012 RSS is starting to have the same symptoms and i have a feeling i might have to replace my switch also, i stated having that same issue once in a while but now its def getting worse. Thanks for the great info ricrum! :2thumbs:

[wingit3611]

Could you give us the site and number of the switch you got? Thanks

[oldgoat]

You have been most helpful with your description, pics & links

Thank you.

[ricrum]

You have been most helpful with your description, pics & links

Thank you.

You're quite welcomed (all). Thanks oldgoat.

[ricrum]

My 2012 RSS is starting to have the same symptoms and i have a feeling i might have to replace my switch also, i stated having that same issue once in a while but now its def getting worse. Thanks for the great info ricrum! :2thumbs:

You're quite welcomed Gonzo5776!

[ricrum]

Could you give us the site and number of the switch you got? Thanks

Here's a link to the switch that I bought on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[ricrum]

RICRUM - Bet it was pretty expense for a 5Year license. They do sell them for a shorter license too.

Basically you checked the circuit thru BUDS .

For what I paid, I thought the five year license I was offered was very generous - so I didn't ask for a shorter license term. The BUDS software shows multiple pages of different info for each ECM-controlled system. The start system page includes green colored ("lit up") dots that show when a button or switch is successfully activated or making contact. The start switch indicator didn't show green, and I confirmed the problem by cutting a 3/4" straightened section of a paper clip - filing the ends to a point - bending the piece into a U shape - then holding the piece with pliers, I poked the sharpened ends through the ribbon coating onto the copper traces which caused a short between the two (which is the same thing that the original switch did). When the starter jumped to life - I broke into a victory dance!

[ricrum]

You have to buy the License once you get the hardware.

If you are only using it once in awhile it may not be worth all the money just to have a license for the day it breaks.

Hello trikermutha. The site that I bought it from included a 5 year license/authorization key along with the kit.

[ricrum]

Great repair...The way of the futute is good or replace and you are old school much like myself and will first find the way to repair it. :clap:
There was a pirate BUDS system selling for a time but BRP had to finally release the system to the public and you can get it through them. Don't know if cheapcycleparts.com has it. Thats where I shop for all oem parts and acc.:thumbup:

Thanks for the compliments Chupaca.

[ricrum]

I'm interested in this also. Maybe a club could buy one for the benefit of members....hmmm

Thanks for the "props"! This is the site that I bought mine from: http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/home/ .........but after my experience with the representative that I was in communications with, I would never buy from them again - and had I known in advance what was in store, would kept looking and bought my system elsewhere. There are alternatives - just Google "BRP BUDS" and you'll see for yourself. To answer your last question - the CAN hardware interface connects to one of your computers USB ports with an included cable

[ricrum]

Great write up and fix! Just curious where and how do you purchase the BUDS system? I'm sure we're talking about some sort of computer diagnostic program correct? As a former GM master tech I'm familiar with their system (now running 30-40 computers) per vehicle. How is the interface between the computer and the bike handled?

Thanks for the "props"! This is the site that I bought mine from: http://www.brpdiagnostics.com/home/ .........but after my experience with the representative that I was in communications with, I would never buy from them again - and had I known in advance what was in store, would kept looking and bought my system elsewhere. There are alternatives - just Google "BRP BUDS" and you'll see for yourself. To answer your last question - the CAN hardware interface connects to one of your computers USB ports with an included cable

[ricrum]

Awesome repair. Great �� info. Bruce

Glad to help Bruce.

[jbauto3]

My question is to the people that are having this problem do you use the kill switch to turn off your bike?

[ricrum]

My question is to the people that are having this problem do you use the kill switch to turn off your bike?We use the kill switch every time. My understanding is that the kill switch shuts the engine down - and then the ignition switch shuts down the computerized systems or modules after they've had time to register the fact that the engine was already shut down. That makes the most sense IMHO.

[carbonation]

We use the kill switch every time. My understanding is that the kill switch shuts the engine down - and then the ignition switch shuts down the computerized systems or modules after they've had time to register the fact that the engine was already shut down. That makes the most sense IMHO.

This is how I've always done it as well.
On my 2012, if I shut off with the key, the radio would lose station presets, and tone control settings. Kill switch, then key, and always worked.
The clock, OTOH, would never keep time. Always gaining.

[stant52]

This link is no longer valid . Do you have brand, part number of switch you used ? Thanks

[stant52]

Here's a link to the switch that I bought on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

the link is no longer valid. Do u have the brand , part number ?/ Thanks