The Dreaded P0174 Trouble Code

[Spyder Insyder]

I recently sold my Goldwing Gl1800 as I no longer feel confident on an 800 plus pound bike with the wife and luggage. About 2 weeks ago I replaced it with a 2012 Spyder RT Limited with 3700 original miles. The bike looks and runs like new, however, over the weekend, while on a short ride into the mountains 125 miles N. E. of Phoenix the check engine light came on. The code came up P0174. Upon checking the forum, I learned of many members with this same problem. Many have spent hundreds of dollars and made numerous return trips to dealer service, and still have an ongoing problem. I took mine to a dealer in N.W. Phoenix a couple days ago, and got a call from the service advisor today. He told me the problem was diagnosed as a bad battery and the sensor is throwing the code due to low voltage. Working at a new car dealership I have seen erroneous codes due to low voltage (battery) problems, and I am hoping that is the case here. I approved the installation of a new battery, and will pick the bike up this weekend. Here's hoping this ends the problem.

[Bfromla]

:welcome: & more info about P0174 According to Spyder codes app:firstplace::
system too lean Bank 2
check injector & fuel supply system. Yes a low battery can cause faults but usally its multiple not just one all by itself, so there may be a lingering problem worth keeping an eye out for, running some fuel treatment also wouldn't hurt. Run some ethonal free gas if you can find
https://www.pure-gas.org
hope does come out all fine for you, be glad it was not the HORRIBLE "DESS code":yikes::banghead:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I recently sold my Goldwing Gl1800 as I no longer feel confident on an 800 plus pound bike with the wife and luggage. About 2 weeks ago I replaced it with a 2012 Spyder RT Limited with 3700 original miles. The bike looks and runs like new, however, over the weekend, while on a short ride into the mountains 125 miles N. E. of Phoenix the check engine light came on. The code came up P0174. Upon checking the forum, I learned of many members with this same problem. Many have spent hundreds of dollars and made numerous return trips to dealer service, and still have an ongoing problem. I took mine to a dealer in N.W. Phoenix a couple days ago, and got a call from the service advisor today. He told me the problem was diagnosed as a bad battery and the sensor is throwing the code due to low voltage. Working at a new car dealership I have seen erroneous codes due to low voltage (battery) problems, and I am hoping that is the case here. I approved the installation of a new battery, and will pick the bike up this weekend. Here's hoping this ends the problem.
:agree: … Our Spyders computers are very sensitive to low voltage / amperage so this may very well be the case here ….You Spyder is now 6 years old, the low mileage has little to do with Battery strength if it is the original batt. It is OLD …. The thing that might be an issue ( @ 6 yrs.) is the Vacuum hoses at the Throttle body ( if they are the original ones )....BRP doesn't use SILICONE versions for them and they probably have … microscopic … cracks which will cause leaks and issues...…. they may look OK, but likely aren't change them out for silicone …………..Mike :thumbup:

[Aracnid]

:welcome: & more info about P0174 According to Spyder codes app:firstplace::
system too lean Bank 2
check injector & fuel supply system. Yes a low battery can cause faults but usally its multiple not just one all by itself, so there may be a lingering problem worth keeping an eye out for, running some fuel treatment also wouldn't hurt. Run some ethonal free gas if you can find
https://www.pure-gas.org
hope does come out all fine for you, be glad it was not the HORRIBLE "DESS code":yikes::banghead:

Had same problem with my (ex) '12. In and out of shop for months :banghead: until a dealership (who was tired of dealing with me and my problem) began tracing "fuel" system after throttle assembly, plugs, vacuum lines, etc were replaced. Turns out the Pressure Regulator was installed upside down (still can't figure that one out). When that problem was corrected the RT ran great.:clap: I put 61k b4 upgrading to current '16.:ohyea:

Copy of work done:
Service Required: SEEM TO BE RUNNING RICH IN STOP AND GO TRAFFIC -SEEM TO BE WORSE ONCE TEMP GUAGE REGISTERED OVER 'II2WAY??
KURT SAID HE WOULD PAY FOR NEXT OIL CHANGE SPYDER RS & RT SERVICE AUTO Service Preformed: HOOK UP TO BUDS -#2 BATIK TOC RICH, FAUI-T CODE
REMOVE ALL SIDE PANELS AND CAB^/VINDSHIELD -INSPECT THROTTLE BODY ASSEMBLY -INSPECT INTAKE AND THROTTLE BODY FLANGES -INSPECT FUEL SYSTEM AND EVAP CANISTER -CHANGE PLUGS -HAD REPLACED THE PURGE VALVE PRIOR -WEIGH EVAP
WITHIN SPEC -INSPECT VACUM
PERFECT -AFTER TALKING WITH BRP WE DID REPLACE THE VACCUM LINES
TEST DRIVE
REPLACING THE VACCUM LINES DID NOT FIX THE RICH ISSUES IN BANK #2
GO BACK INTO THE UNIT AND DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING WE WORKED ON BEFORE AND A COUPLE OF NEW THINGS TO CHECK FROM BRP -FOUND THAT THE PRESSURE REGULATOR HAD BEEN INSTALLED UPSIDE DOWN AT SOME POINT
TEST DRIVE UNIT -PUT OVER 1OO MILES ON UNIT IN TOWN DRIVING, STOP AND GO AND NEVER HAD AN ISSUE

[SpyderAnn01]

I’ve never heard of P0174 being traced to a battery issue.

[Spyder Insyder]

:agree: … Our Spyders computers are very sensitive to low voltage / amperage so this may very well be the case here ….You Spyder is now 6 years old, the low mileage has little to do with Battery strength if it is the original batt. It is OLD …. The thing that might be an issue ( @ 6 yrs.) is the Vacuum hoses at the Throttle body ( if they are the original ones )....BRP doesn't use SILICONE versions for them and they probably have … microscopic … cracks which will cause leaks and issues...…. they may look OK, but likely aren't change them out for silicone …………..Mike :thumbup:


Thanks to all for your comments. I will keep you posted. Hopefully this doesn't get too expensive.

[M109Dreamer]

I had the same code on out 11 RTS. For a while we would pull over pull the key out do a weather dance and keeping riding. It got to a point where it was happening all the time. It turned out to be the throttle bodies. Luckily it was replaced under warranty. In the older models this was a pretty regular occurrence that I saw posted here. Especially for the 2010-2013 RT's (998)

[BigGuy66]

I had the same code on out 11 RTS. For a while we would pull over pull the key out do a weather dance and keeping riding. It got to a point where it was happening all the time. It turned out to be the throttle bodies. Luckily it was replaced under warranty. In the older models this was a pretty regular occurrence that I saw posted here. Especially for the 2010-2013 RT's (998)

Yep - replaced the body and all is well - 2010 RT SM5

[Spyder Insyder]

Yep - replaced the body and all is well - 2010 RT SM5

Seems like the throttle body replacement would be a worst case scenario. What did that cost, or was it warrantied?

[2dogs]

In and out of the dealership more times than I care to recall. Each time it threw the code it would show limp mode. After having so dam many limp modes, frustration set in so I just rode it like I stole it. Thank goodness it was still under warranty . On the last trip to the dealership to pick up my beloved spyder (it was a Sunday) the service department was closed. My 1330 has never missed a beat since. I had no luck in trying to uncover the solution to solving my P0174 code because shortly there after the service department had been restocked with new staff. I spoke to the salesman who sold me the splder and he told me the problem was likely a small vacuum hose leak which was often overlooked, but not an uncommon issue. A simple, simple fix.

[Spyder Insyder]

I recently sold my Goldwing Gl1800 as I no longer feel confident on an 800 plus pound bike with the wife and luggage. About 2 weeks ago I replaced it with a 2012 Spyder RT Limited with 3700 original miles. The bike looks and runs like new, however, over the weekend, while on a short ride into the mountains 125 miles N. E. of Phoenix the check engine light came on. The code came up P0174. Upon checking the forum, I learned of many members with this same problem. Many have spent hundreds of dollars and made numerous return trips to dealer service, and still have an ongoing problem. I took mine to a dealer in N.W. Phoenix a couple days ago, and got a call from the service advisor today. He told me the problem was diagnosed as a bad battery and the sensor is throwing the code due to low voltage. Working at a new car dealership I have seen erroneous codes due to low voltage (battery) problems, and I am hoping that is the case here. I approved the installation of a new battery, and will pick the bike up this weekend. Here's hoping this ends the problem.


Update: I just picked up the Spyder, for the second time on Saturday. The new battery install did not solve the problem. the check engine light returned after about 300 miles. The Dealer did send a truck and trailer to pick up the bike. A nice gesture since they are over 100 miles away. This time they replaced the purge valve. They said it failed to open 50% of the time during cycle testing. At this point, I am out of pocket almost $600. I will be happy if this fixes the problem. However, at this point I have only put on about 175 miles since picking it up.

[SpyderAnn01]

Update: I just picked up the Spyder, for the second time on Saturday. The new battery install did not solve the problem. the check engine light returned after about 300 miles. The Dealer did send a truck and trailer to pick up the bike. A nice gesture since they are over 100 miles away. This time they replaced the purge valve. They said it failed to open 50% of the time during cycle testing. At this point, I am out of pocket almost $600. I will be happy if this fixes the problem. However, at this point I have only put on about 175 miles since picking it up.

That makes a lot more sense than replacing the battery did. I hope the new purge valve takes care of your issues.

[Spyder Insyder]

I picked up the bike a little over a week ago, and after about 200 miles, the check engine light / P0174 code returned. The dealer picked up the bike again this morning.

[JKMSPYDER]

​Tell the dealer to replace the vacuum lines and that may solve the problem.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

​Tell the dealer to replace the vacuum lines and that may solve the problem.

Right - surprised they hadn't done that yet. Vacuum lines to the MAP sensor. Left side of throttle bodies. That should point them in the right direction. Also a general inspection for vacuum leaks. The rear cylinder runs with less margin to the limit due to the much shorter header length. A healthy fuel injector cleaning is also effective. Techron, Seafoam, B-12. A canisterectomy will eliminate any interference from the purge valve system, but you'd have to do that yourself. In some rare instances on the 2012, a rear cylinder fuel injector replacement was the cure. Less expensive than a full blown throttle body.

[tjsox]

I picked up a check engine light and the P0174 code. Dealer replaced a faulty purge valve on warranty and everything has been fine since. There is a youtube video (in French) out there on the purge valve replacement.

[Spyder Insyder]

Right - surprised they hadn't done that yet. Vacuum lines to the MAP sensor. Left side of throttle bodies. That should point them in the right direction. Also a general inspection for vacuum leaks. The rear cylinder runs with less margin to the limit due to the much shorter header length. A healthy fuel injector cleaning is also effective. Techron, Seafoam, B-12. A canisterectomy will eliminate any interference from the purge valve system, but you'd have to do that yourself. In some rare instances on the 2012, a rear cylinder fuel injector replacement was the cure. Less expensive than a full blown throttle body.

Thanks, Doug. I thought about the injectors, since the bike is a 2012 RTL (same color as yours BTW) and only had about 4K miles when I got it. Obviously a lot of garage time, so I have run several tanks with Sea Foam since the problem began.
I have noticed some small, clear, shiny spots on the hangar floor directly under the engine where the bike is parked, and I've been wondering if it could be overflow or leakage from the evap canister, and if so, would that cause a lean condition. They don't seem to have an oily residue feel to them.

Dennis

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey Dennis. What you're seeing under the bike is the condensation of the vapors from the fuel tank. The purge valve / canister system on the V-Twin RT might have looked good on paper, but in real life it was about as useful as a soup sandwich. One thing is that it only taps into, and uses, vacuum from the rear cylinder. So almost every chronic problem - rich or lean - with the rear cylinder can be traced back to that. And there is no check valve in the vent line from the canister to atmosphere. So, when the purge valve opens it not only sucks in vapors and any liquid from the canister and fuel tank, but also fresh air. Some of us, maybe a lot of us, have just removed the system. Do a search for Canisterectomy. I'm not saying that your problem is solely the purge valve system. Just that removing it eliminates that piece of it.

It's a long story that covers everything from gas smell, to boiling in the fuel tank, to fires and a recall in 2013. But essentially, underbody temps and fuel tank temps are the root of all evil for the bike. There's such an excessive amout of evaporation from the fuel tank that the canister is useless. If you get down at floor level after a ride, and look at the butt end of that rubber hose that sticks out from below, you'll see the dripping coming from there. Contrary to a once popular believe, it is NOT due to overfilling the tank. It's just condensation of fuel tank vapors.

I can't tell for sure by looking at your picture if you have the air scoops from the 2013 recall installed. They fit previous year RT's, also. They go into the body work under your mirrors and direct airflow under the body. They're not just vent holes but actual scoops. They sit where the original fixed air deflectors are located and are black unless painted. They help a lot with all of those heat issues. Do a search for information for that. You'll be glad you installed those if they aren't already there.

You might want to try some Berryman's B12 if the Seafoam doesn't yield results soon. And maybe consider replacing the fuel filter. There's a lot of garage time on that, too. Right side, right behind the canister. And followup with those vacuum hoses. The 2012 is the best of the V-Twin RTs. You just need to get this little glitch taken care of. If you do your own maintenance on that beautiful bird behind you, you can fix a Spyder. We had a 75 Cardinal for over 20 years. Decided to see the world at ground level for awhile.

[Spyder Insyder]

Hey Dennis. What you're seeing under the bike is the condensation of the vapors from the fuel tank. The purge valve / canister system on the V-Twin RT might have looked good on paper, but in real life it was about as useful as a soup sandwich. One thing is that it only taps into, and uses, vacuum from the rear cylinder. So almost every chronic problem - rich or lean - with the rear cylinder can be traced back to that. And there is no check valve in the vent line from the canister to atmosphere. So, when the purge valve opens it not only sucks in vapors and any liquid from the canister and fuel tank, but also fresh air. Some of us, maybe a lot of us, have just removed the system. Do a search for Canisterectomy. I'm not saying that your problem is solely the purge valve system. Just that removing it eliminates that piece of it.

It's a long story that covers everything from gas smell, to boiling in the fuel tank, to fires and a recall in 2013. But essentially, underbody temps and fuel tank temps are the root of all evil for the bike. There's such an excessive amout of evaporation from the fuel tank that the canister is useless. If you get down at floor level after a ride, and look at the butt end of that rubber hose that sticks out from below, you'll see the dripping coming from there. Contrary to a once popular believe, it is NOT due to overfilling the tank. It's just condensation of fuel tank vapors.

I can't tell for sure by looking at your picture if you have the air scoops from the 2013 recall installed. They fit previous year RT's, also. They go into the body work under your mirrors and direct airflow under the body. They're not just vent holes but actual scoops. They sit where the original fixed air deflectors are located and are black unless painted. They help a lot with all of those heat issues. Do a search for information for that. You'll be glad you installed those if they aren't already there.

You might want to try some Berryman's B12 if the Seafoam doesn't yield results soon. And maybe consider replacing the fuel filter. There's a lot of garage time on that, too. Right side, right behind the canister. And followup with those vacuum hoses. The 2012 is the best of the V-Twin RTs. You just need to get this little glitch taken care of. If you do your own maintenance on that beautiful bird behind you, you can fix a Spyder. We had a 75 Cardinal for over 20 years. Decided to see the world at ground level for awhile.

Thanks for all the good information and advice Doug. I got a call this afternoon from the service advisor at the shop, telling me that the tech is now recommending new 02 sensors. Because of the ongoing problem and the money I have already spent, the service manager is also discounting the labor. I told them while they have it opened up, I also want the vacuum hoses replaced. I'm really hoping we have this sorted out by the end of the month, when the wife and I have a 200 mile ride planned with hotel reservations etc. We have the H.D. Road King as a back up, but she really does not like to ride on it. So far, the Spyder has not gone into limp mode with the code, but I haven't tried driving it any real distance with the check engine light on.

It appears my bike does not have the air scoops. It is interesting that you mention them. A Can Am dealer in the East Valley a few miles east of Phoenix, who used to sell and service Spyders, also mentioned the heat build up within the bodywork and all the associated problems. If you know where they are available I would be very interested. I saw an old post on this forum with a Can Am part number, but they were quite expensive. Has anyone produced an aftermarket alternative?

I bet you miss the Cardinal. I think the Cardinal was the sexiest of the high wing Cessna's I have always been partial to Cessna's and had a 182P Skylane that I loved. I would love to have another one some day. Anyway, with avfuel nearly $5.00/gal. I have been doing much less flying, and spending a lot more time on my bikes since I retired.

Dennis

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Dennis. You're wanting to get - RT Vent Kit #219800388. Should be able to be found for less than 70 bucks. Your dealer could get them through the system and they are available at other outlets, Amazon, eBay, etc. They don't just bolt on, there's a little cutting involved with that top panel. The history is that the 2013 RT model Spyder was involved in a recall for heat issues. Those scoops were part of the fix and can be fitted to previous model year RT's.

If you want to paint them and do the install yourself, Doc Riverside can help you out with user friendly instructions.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?84770-RT-vent-kit-on-2014-RT

Not to be confused with the other modified panels that were for a completely different Spyder model - the 2013 ST. In that case there was no recall, but the two side panels for the ST were redesigned to increase airflow, also with scoops. Those panels will NOT fit your RT. So when you speak to your dealer about it, details and terminology are really important.

Yeah, I miss the Cardinal. After a wash and wax, sometimes I would just sit there and look at it. But I don't miss $6.00 a gallon Av-Gas, hanger rent and annual inspections. It was a hard decision that turned into relief.

[Spyder Insyder]

Well, it finally beat me into submission. I went down to pick up the Spyder for the third time from the shop this morning. While I was discussing all of the repairs so far with the service manager, the lot attendant went to retrieve my bike. About 5 minutes later he returns and informs us that he can't get the bike started. After some 20 - 30 minutes of testing it was determined that the brand new battery that was replaced on my first visit was dead due to an unknown current draw. Upon hearing this, my wife says she has lost all confidence in the bike and would not want to ride any distance on it. After lengthy negotiations with the sales department, they agreed to allow me within $1000 of what I paid for the bike in trade, and increased the BRP 2018 discount to $8000 on a new RT Limited. They also ate the $335 due for the repair bill. Also, because of this experience, I did something I have never done before. I purchased an extended bumper to bumper warranty.

Although I never expected to spend this much money, I do feel I was treated fairly, and now we can just ride with some peace of mind.

[jlc41]

Glad to hear you are out of your troubled spyder. It's a shame that some service departments don't seem to have the in depth knowledge to fix the bikes the first time around. Hope you have many trouble free miles going forward.

Joe

[bikerbillone]

I commend the dealer for trying to make this right for 'customer satisfaction'. Sounds like the dealer was almost as frustrated as the 'owner'.

[Mikey]

:clap::clap::clap::clap:Good for you!!!!! Now you can ride and not wonder if you are going to get back. Happy trails:yes::yes:

[Grandpot]

I hope this truly ends up being a happy ending after so much frustration. :clap:

[vindex1963]

That's the same dealership we bought my wife's bike and they are decent people to deal with. You for sure tried and in the end you realized it was enough, smart.

Congratulations on the new ride, hopefully soon we can meet and go for a ride.

[2dogs]

Been there done that, on more than one occasion. Once you lose all confidence in something it's not worth the uncertainty of owning it any longer. Just the agony of wondering when or where it's going to die on you and leave you stranded is enough to make the trip not worth taking. Wish you all the luck with your new purchase and happy trails from here on out. Sounds like the dealer was a standup guy. Not too many of those fellows around these days.

[tibadoe]

Glad you were able to work out a solution. Good luck going forward with your new RT Limited.

[gkamer]

After lengthy negotiations with the sales department, they agreed to allow me within $1000 of what I paid for the bike in trade, and increased the BRP 2018 discount to $8000 on a new RT Limited. They also ate the $335 due for the repair bill. Also, because of this experience, I did something I have never done before. I purchased an extended bumper to bumper warranty.


While it sounds like you made out alright on the the deal, I can't help but wonder what they are going to do with your old Spyder? Pass the headache along to someone else?

[Spyder Insyder]

I think it was sold. I got a frantic call from their business mgr. about three weeks later asking for the title, which surprised me, since I had signed the official ADOT power of attorney documents when the deal was done. Anyway, I hope the new owner has better luck than I did. It was a beautiful bike with less than 4K miles. Maybe since the dealer had it for three plus weeks after I traded it, they were able to spend more time diagnosing the problem without the pressure of a customer waiting.