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Crisis
09-10-2018, 05:05 PM
Sold my 2008 GS just in the nick of time :yes: These are going to destroy resale values!!:banghead:

Bob Denman
09-10-2018, 05:20 PM
:roflblack: Yup! :thumbup:

But now you'd be competing with value and features: not with pricing... :D

BryanSD
09-10-2018, 06:21 PM
Sold my 2008 GS just in the nick of time :yes: These are going to destroy resale values!!:banghead:

I think so. For the past month I had considered buying a 2014 RS (998) as a second Spyder for my family...but not anymore after seeing the Ryker. The 998s from the very early years and in good condition may hold value as a collectible down the road, but for me as a buyer today seeing the Ryker...I won't consider buying anything used unless it's a good deal on a F3 or RT 1330.

asp125
09-10-2018, 06:33 PM
Apples and oranges. GS/ST crowd probably would be different than the Ryker crowd. Sleek and sporty vs bobber and urban

Vader
09-10-2018, 06:45 PM
Glad I still have my GS. Not sure how a smaller Ryker would be a better fit for me. And for what I purchased mine for in 2014 with very low miles. Sure, you'll be able to get a 900 Ryker for less than $10K..naked. With nothing. No frunk to speak of. So, will those that own a GS, RS, RS-S, or ST suffer if they want to sell theirs, to say, purchase an RT or F3, perhaps. Or maybe they just will buy a Ryker to mess around with. Shorter trips. Ice cream run...etc.:dontknow:

C. Lee
09-11-2018, 07:54 AM
this ryker won't have any negative effect on the resale of our rides. I say this because the ryker will increase brand awareness and value. Chris

Bob Denman
09-11-2018, 08:02 AM
It'll also open up more folks to the idea of riding! :thumbup:

ThreeWheels
09-11-2018, 09:25 AM
I'm not real happy with the styling of the Ryker.
Still, with a 1.8 gallon tank, probably about 1.5 gallons of useful space, it's a completely different motorcycle.
Did the Honda Ruckus affect the resale value of the Gold Wing ??
I don't think so.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure somebody on this forum will let me know.

Road-Kill
09-11-2018, 09:39 AM
I agree. People go with the money.
Most people are not into long distance high mileage touring and will want to save a few bucks.

Sold my 2008 GS just in the nick of time :yes: These are going to destroy resale values!!:banghead:

Bob Denman
09-11-2018, 09:46 AM
I'm not real happy with the styling of the Ryker.
Still, with a 1.8 gallon tank, probably about 1.5 gallons of useful space, it's a completely different motorcycle.
Did the Honda Ruckus affect the resale value of the Gold Wing ??
I don't think so.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure somebody on this forum will let me know.

Fuel tank is 20 Liters.

165617

ThreeWheels
09-11-2018, 09:55 AM
Fuel tank is 20 Liters.

165617

Thank you , Mr. Carpenter

Chefex
09-11-2018, 09:55 AM
No power, 75 hp on the base model. If you're already riding an RT or F3, who'd want to down grade to that. Nice for the entry level, but I'll stick to my F3 limited.

PW2013STL
09-11-2018, 09:57 AM
I'm not real happy with the styling of the Ryker.
Still, with a 1.8 gallon tank, probably about 1.5 gallons of useful space, it's a completely different motorcycle.
Did the Honda Ruckus affect the resale value of the Gold Wing ??
I don't think so.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure somebody on this forum will let me know.

That is the size of the glove box - not the gas tank.

UtahPete
09-11-2018, 10:12 AM
My unsolicited and decidedly uninformed opinion is that BRP made a conscious decision to spin the Ryker off as a different 'brand' rather than extend the Spyder brand into a Ryker model within the Spyder lineup. This would give BRP distinct marketing benefits and flexibility. It also helps preserve the Spyder as a premium brand that would otherwise be cheapened by the down-market and smaller Ryker.

Bob Denman
09-11-2018, 10:17 AM
165618

Wrong again...
It's a Spyder.
Marketed as a Spyder
Sold by Spyder Dealerships
built by Can Am
Developed by Can Am
It's even listed right on the Can Am Spyder website...

What would their logic be in carving it off on it's own?:dontknow:

Culpjp
09-11-2018, 10:17 AM
I think I'll be selling my GS next spring and getting a Ryker next fall when they are trying to get rid of the 2019's. The Ryker works for me. I don't go touring. More back and forth to work and pleasure rides on the weekends for at most a couple of hours. I'm not worried about trying to go 100mph, and being able to beat a Harley in a drag race. It's not a grocery getter either.
I'll take a more reliable engine, better riding style for me, and a cheaper machine to have fun with.

UtahPete
09-11-2018, 10:23 AM
165618

Wrong again...
It's a Spyder.
Marketed as a Spyder
Sold by Spyder Dealerships
built by Can Am
Developed by Can Am
It's even listed right on the Can Am Spyder website...

What would their logic be in carving it off on it's own?:dontknow:

Nowhere have I seen it referred to as a Spyder Ryker.

It is sold by BRP dealerships, along with ATVs, snowmobiles and PWCs. It is on the CanAm-BRP website.

Bob Denman
09-11-2018, 10:25 AM
Take a quick peek at your own signature line...

Did you refer to your own bikes as:
"Spyder RT-L"

UtahPete
09-11-2018, 10:29 AM
Take a quick peek at your own signature line...Did you refer to your own bikes as:
"Spyder RT-L"
Good point. I think I now need to change that. Except this is a SpyderLovers forum, not a BRP reverse-trike lovers forum...

Interesting conundrum!

JAS POWER
09-11-2018, 10:35 AM
When someone asks what I have in the garage I say I have a Spyder, If I had A Ryker I would say I have a Ryker. I see this as if its a brand within a brand. If I had more money than god I would say I have a Acura in the garage I would never want to say I have a Honda even though thats who makes the Acura :dontknow: it seems as they are just taking after the car industry.

UtahPete
09-11-2018, 10:38 AM
When someone asks what I have in the garage I say I have a Spyder, If I had A Ryker I would say I have a Ryker. I see this as if its a brand within a brand. If I had more money than god I would say I have a Acura in the garage I would never want to say I have a Honda even though thats who makes the Acura :dontknow: it seems as they are just taking after the car industry.
Perfect analogy. Thanks.

Firefly
09-11-2018, 10:39 AM
My unsolicited and decidedly uninformed opinion is that BRP made a conscious decision to spin the Ryker off as a different 'brand' rather than extend the Spyder brand into a Ryker model within the Spyder lineup. This would give BRP distinct marketing benefits and flexibility. It also helps preserve the Spyder as a premium brand that would otherwise be cheapened by the down-market and smaller Ryker.

I agree 100% and am glad they went with a different name for these entry level 'moped-like' trikes.
They did it on purpose so as not to cheapen the Spyder name.

That being said, I'm sure us Spyderlovers will embrace it as our 'little brother' and they'll be welcome to come play with the rest of us. I'd expect a new forum area out here for them just like for the F3 and RT models...

Deanna777
09-11-2018, 11:06 AM
It'll also open up more folks to the idea of riding! :thumbup::agree: Deanna

Culpjp
09-11-2018, 11:09 AM
That being said, I'm sure us Spyderlovers will embrace it as our 'little brother' and they'll be welcome to come play with the rest of us.

Have we now gone from "it's not a real motorcycle" to " it's not a real Spyder"?

bscrive
09-11-2018, 11:24 AM
165618

Wrong again...
It's a Spyder.
Marketed as a Spyder
Sold by Spyder Dealerships
built by Can Am
Developed by Can Am
It's even listed right on the Can Am Spyder website...

What would their logic be in carving it off on it's own?:dontknow:

When I go on the Can-Am site they have two tabs one for Ryker and one for Spyder, so I don't think that they are really marketing as a spyder, but as another model.

Firefly
09-11-2018, 02:29 PM
Have we now gone from "it's not a real motorcycle" to " it's not a real Spyder"?

Well.. it's not a Spyder... it's a Ryker......

If you have an issue with that then take it up with BRP..... ;)

asp125
09-11-2018, 03:59 PM
Now we need a new sub-forum for the Ryker.

C. Lee
09-12-2018, 07:01 AM
You guys are crazy! It cost a lot of money for a company to brand themselves. There are many people who don't know what a Spyder is let alone what a ryker is. Can am is not launching another brand call Ryker, they are merely introducing a new line of Spyders that will appeal to a Different type of buyer, nothing more. Auto manufacturers have many different models under the same manufacturer, this is the same thing.

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 07:05 AM
Thank you: :agree:

BryanSD
09-12-2018, 07:14 AM
You guys are crazy! It cost a lot of money for a company to brand themselves. There are many people who don't know what a Spyder is let alone what a ryker is. Can am is not launching another brand call Ryker, they are merely introducing a new line of Spyders that will appeal to a Different type of buyer, nothing more. Auto manufacturers have many different models under the same manufacturer, this is the same thing.

Originally, I would agree with you...but the more I look into the Ryker the more I'm convinced it's a lot more than just a cheaper Spyder. The Ryker can do something the Spyder can't...go on gravel and dirt roads with peace of mind due to it having a drive shaft instead of a belt. Around my area...there are so many people that drive street-legal ATVs. Before I could afford a Spyder, I had an ATV that I would ride around town but while doing so envied those riding a motorcycle. While the Ryker isn't an ATV it is being marketed as an All-Road Vehicle. I'm pretty convinced the Ryker isn't just going to be marketed toward a younger demographic but those people bought an ATV nor really for utility, hunting, or go all-terrain...but just for recreational fun on the city streets and country gravel roads. The Ryker can easily be marketed as an "ARV" that allows you to do some of what an ATV can do and most of what a Spyder can do. Not sure if ARV is a new category...but it is a new customer base for the reverse trike vehicles. It would be a huge mistake for a dealer to promote a Ryker as nothing more than just a low-end Spyder. There are some advantages to a Ryker over a Spyder that can't be ignored.

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 07:48 AM
It's the test-bed for a new drivetrain configuration.
Folks have been screaming for shaft drive for years, and BRP has listened! :thumbup:
Give them some time: I'll bet that you see this feature in all of the bikes (eventually)

C. Lee
09-12-2018, 07:51 AM
Originally, I would agree with you...but the more I look into the Ryker the more I'm convinced it's a lot more than just a cheaper Spyder. The Ryker can do something the Spyder can't...go on gravel and dirt roads with peace of mind due to it having a drive shaft instead of a belt. Around my area...there are so many people that drive street-legal ATVs. Before I could afford a Spyder, I had an ATV that I would ride around town but while doing so envied those riding a motorcycle. While the Ryker isn't an ATV it is being marketed as an All-Road Vehicle. I'm pretty convinced the Ryker isn't just going to be marketed toward a younger demographic but those people bought an ATV nor really for utility, hunting, or go all-terrain...but just for recreational fun on the city streets and country gravel roads. The Ryker can easily be marketed as an "ARV" that allows you to do some of what an ATV can do and most of what a Spyder can do. Not sure if ARV is a new category...but it is a new customer base for the reverse trike vehicles. It would be a huge mistake for a dealer to promote a Ryker as nothing more than just a low-end Spyder. There are some advantages to a Ryker over a Spyder that can't be ignored.


I agree with that statement. There are things the Corvette can do that a Cruze can not do and things the Silverado can do things that a Corvette can't do. Each one is advertised on it's own merits. They don't advertise them as GM Corvettes or Silverados just Corvettes or Silverados. Every time I introduce a new service for my business I do so to increase brand awareness and give more people a reason to call me instead of my competition. A basic business premise is to make yourself more appealing to the customer then the next guy so they use you instead of him. So the Ryker is merely an avenue to increase the Spyder brand, nothing more nothing less.

On an unrelated note, My RTL needs to be shaft driven. That would be fantastic!

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 08:13 AM
I'm betting three years, and you'll see shaft drive on the other models. :thumbup:

delkhouri
09-12-2018, 08:26 AM
I'd be curious to see their rationale behind the name Ryker. If it's about bringing awareness and accessibility to the Spyder line why not call it the Can Am Spyder R6 (600cc) R9 (900cc) and RR (rally).... Or if the R is too over used from other models (rs, rss, rt, rts, rtl etc) pick another letter. Someone in another thread even suggested calling it an F1?

I guess the one takeaway is that the Ryker is NOT a Spyder and they don't want it to be, if they wanted it to be another Spyder model they would have named it such.

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 09:14 AM
I've got to go with Shakespeare on this one"


"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Kratos
09-12-2018, 09:37 AM
One thing is for sure. It's bringing back people to the brand. Heck, it's got me back. :-)

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 09:38 AM
:D I was just gonna say "Welcome back!" to you! :2thumbs:

Kratos
09-12-2018, 10:00 AM
:D I was just gonna say "Welcome back!" to you! :2thumbs:

Haha, good ole Bob. Nice to see you're still the same. :D

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 10:03 AM
I'm not the same...
Older
Grayer
The bones creak more
The eyes are shot!

Getting old can be a bit unhandy at times! :D

Kratos
09-12-2018, 10:05 AM
I'm not the same...
Older
Grayer
The bones creak more
The eyes are shot!

Getting old can be a bit unhandy at times! :D

Haha.....good point.

jcthorne
09-12-2018, 10:27 AM
You guys are crazy! It cost a lot of money for a company to brand themselves. There are many people who don't know what a Spyder is let alone what a ryker is. Can am is not launching another brand call Ryker, they are merely introducing a new line of Spyders that will appeal to a Different type of buyer, nothing more. Auto manufacturers have many different models under the same manufacturer, this is the same thing.


Nope, its a whole new brand. The Ryker is NOT a Spyder. Both Ryker and Spyder are brands under CanAm On Road Vehicles Team. There are models under each of those brands.

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 10:55 AM
I've got to go with Shakespeare on this one"


"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."


Repeat this as often as is necessary... :D

Joe T.
09-12-2018, 11:32 AM
Interesting.

I, personally, do not believe a motorcycle (or three wheeler) should cost the same as a typical car. There is no comparison of the utility of the two, and therefore the inherent value. Just my opinion. I am sure many will not agree.

As some examples:

A nicely optioned new Mustang at $26,120 with a 315 hp EccoBoost 2.3L 4:

https://shop.ford.com/build/mustang/?searchid=||81844959256271&s_kwcid=AL!2519!10!81844929144347!81844959256271&ef_id=W3gTQwAAALlUOQIT:20180912155041:s#/select/

A nicely optioned new Camaro at $28,960 with a 3.6L V6 DI engine at 335 HP

https://www.chevrolet.com/byo-vc/client/en/US/chevrolet/camaro/2018/camaro/summary



Now, let's compare some Spyders:

A Spyder RT Limited configured nicely is $29,828.

https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/build-and-price/vehicle-configuration.html?configAirProfileName=BRP_SPY&configAirPlatformId=SPY_RT&modelYear=2019#buildId/b4cbb192-f0f0-45c6-aab8-ebcf2ceb5d9a/step/4


A nicely optioned Spyder F3-S is $20,758.

https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/build-and-price/vehicle-configuration.html?configAirProfileName=BRP_SPY&configAirPlatformId=SPY_F3_SPORT&modelYear=2019#buildId/f7610a11-37d9-4e39-9601-c416168c8929/step/4



Let's now look at the new Ryker models:


A nicely optioned Ryker with the 900 ACE configured for a single rider is $11,333.

https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/build-and-price/vehicle-configuration.html?configAirProfileName=BRP_SWI&configAirPlatformId=SWI_SWIFT&modelYear=2019#buildId/3c9f0818-de57-475b-ad22-92dc31beca75/step/4



For a little more than the price of a nicely optioned F3-S, I can purchase two nice Rykers. For the price of an RT Limited we could have two nice Rykers and a LOT OF $$$ LEFT OVER!!

My wife could ride one and I the other. Freedom to enjoy the road.

So, this Ryker model looks much more attractive to me.

Regards,
Joe T.

Kratos
09-12-2018, 12:18 PM
Interesting.

I, personally, do not believe a motorcycle (or three wheeler) should cost the same as a typical car. There is no comparison of the utility of the two, and therefore the inherent value. Just my opinion. I am sure many will not agree.


Joe T.

Well my 2018 A Class motorhome cost less than all my cars. It's a freeking house on wheels with beds, kitchen, bathroom, shower, etc. if you want to speak on "utility", LOL.

So the market on these motored vehicles make no sense across the enitre board. Buy what you want and enjoy. :-)

IdahoMtnSpyder
09-12-2018, 12:35 PM
I, personally, do not believe a motorcycle (or three wheeler) should cost the same as a typical car. There is no comparison of the utility of the two, and therefore the inherent value. Just my opinion. I am sure many will not agree.
I've often said to people, when I was riding a Goldwing, that a Goldwing, new or used, was about the same price as a Honda Civic. That's been the case for years and years, maybe even decades!

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 12:50 PM
Well my 2018 A Class motorhome cost less than all my cars. It's a freeking house on wheels with beds, kitchen, bathroom, shower, etc. if you want to speak on "utility", LOL.

So the market on these motored vehicles make no sense across the enitre board. Buy what you want and enjoy. :-)

Which RV do you have? :D

(We're packing our 2018 Thor Outlaw 29H for a Columbus Day weekend trip right now... :thumbup:)
But it's just a Class C...

Kratos
09-12-2018, 02:11 PM
Which RV do you have? :D

(We're packing our 2018 Thor Outlaw 29H for a Columbus Day weekend trip right now... :thumbup:)
But it's just a Class C...

We had a 2016 Thor Four Winds 27H C Class and loved it. Awesome bang for buck those C classes are. My jeep wrangler cost more than it did. :shocked:

We now have a 2018 Thor Windsport, and it also is a great bang for dollar for those wanting to get into the A classes. And it too cost less than my cars, which makes no sense to me. Mind blowing actually.

But that's what we're talking about here.......the world of motors has no sense of scale/utility.

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 02:22 PM
I LIKE the Windsports: :thumbup:
But we went with the toyhauler for the Spyder... and now the golf cart! :shocked:

UtahPete
09-12-2018, 03:56 PM
A basic business premise is to make yourself more appealing to the customer then the next guy so they use you instead of him.

So the Ryker is merely an avenue to increase the Spyder brand, nothing more nothing less.

That is not a basic business premise.

You're wrong about the purpose of the Ryker. It is not even a Spyder.

Maybe you should stick with what you do know. :lecturef_smilie:

Bob Denman
09-12-2018, 05:02 PM
Actually: it sure the Hell! nojoke
But if you prefer to call it as only a basic premise of marketing: go ahead!
You have to remember that a sound marketing strategy is also a basic premise of business... :D
And it IS a Spyder!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoYsfbq3vMc

BlkHawk73
09-12-2018, 06:33 PM
I go to the Can Am website. Click on "explore off road" and choose [Models]. You then choose SSV or ATV. Two different model types. From there, you can view each model within that type.

Back at can-Am homepage... Click on "discover on road" and choose [Models]. It then allows you to choose Can-Am Ryker or Can-Am Spyder, separated the exact same way as the off road types. So... kinda screams the Ryker and the Spyder are by the factory recognized as two different model types.

Not seeing where these are marketed by Can-Am as the Spyder Ryker.


Go into any motorcycle manufacturer's site and they divide by type of bike then within that, individual models then variations of that model. Huh...just like Can-Am has done.

UtahPete
09-12-2018, 07:00 PM
I go to the Can Am website. Click on "explore off road" and choose [Models]. You then choose SSV or ATV. Two different model types. From there, you can view each model within that type.

Back at can-Am homepage... Click on "discover on road" and choose [Models]. It then allows you to choose Can-Am Ryker or Can-Am Spyder, separated the exact same way as the off road types. So... kinda screams the Ryker and the Spyder are by the factory recognized as two different model types.

Not seeing where these are marketed by Can-Am as the Spyder Ryker.


Go into any motorcycle manufacturer's site and they divide by type of bike then within that, individual models then variations of that model. Huh...just like Can-Am has done.
It's not a Spyder!

BlkHawk73
09-12-2018, 08:16 PM
It's not a Spyder!


Exactly what I'm saying. There's all separated on their site.

Rob Rodriguez
09-12-2018, 09:11 PM
Exactly what I'm saying. There's all separated on their site.

I agree. My guess is because the Ryker line is going to evolve into the sporty performance machine line. Not just entry level but also more expensive, sport, dual sport and performance minded machines. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 900ACE turbo in that chassis (or a very similar one) in the next model year or two.

The Spyder line will remain and continue to be larger cruiser and touring type machines.

Lets face it, people hear Spyder and they think "old peoples bike". Not trying to offend anyone......its just the way it is. Easiest way for BRP to kill off that notion is start a new brand. Don't try and rebrand the old mans Spyder, just create the young mans Ryker.

Just a guess?

delkhouri
09-12-2018, 09:43 PM
I agree. My guess is because the Ryker line is going to evolve into the sporty performance machine line. Not just entry level but also more expensive, sport, dual sport and performance minded machines. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 900ACE turbo in that chassis (or a very similar one) in the next model year or two.

The Spyder line will remain and continue to be larger cruiser and touring type machines.

Lets face it, people hear Spyder and they think "old peoples bike". Not trying to offend anyone......its just the way it is. Easiest way for BRP to kill off that notion is start a new brand. Don't try and rebrand the old mans Spyder, just create the young mans Ryker.

Just a guess?

A good guess at that....... I am wondering if they plan on keeping both the F3 and RT that they rename them (or their successors) and have the Ryker, the Spyder (current F3) and, __________ (current RT). Basically the end goal of diversifying models as well as model names and not just all being called spyder..... I know Bob will say that a name is just a name, but this isn't just about names it's about their business plan and more specifically about them being all in on a business plan of making three wheeled trykes available to all.

Crisis
09-12-2018, 09:44 PM
Sold my 2008 GS just in the nick of time :yes: These are going to destroy resale values!!:banghead:

There is no way the Purchaser of my GS would have paid the amount he did if this new Can Am model was around. He would be the proud owner of a new 2019 vehicle instead of a used 2008 vehicle for a few hundred more dollars more. Take a look at how many used Spyders are for sale out there. I can’t believe I sold mine :ohyea:

C. Lee
09-13-2018, 07:47 AM
[QUOTE=Bob Denman;1391259]Actually: it sure the Hell! nojoke
But if you prefer to call it as only a basic premise of marketing: go ahead!
You have to remember that a sound marketing strategy is also a basic premise of business... :D
And it IS a Spyder!

Thank you Bob. I will resist the urge to make a nasty comment on Pete's post. He obviously knows more then me.

tjsox
09-13-2018, 08:23 AM
Sold my 2008 GS just in the nick of time :yes: These are going to destroy resale values!!:banghead:

I can’t see my wife traveling several thousand miles on a trip with a Ryker holding all her gear. It is a different product and niche. So there is no need to compare the GS, ST or STL to the Ryker. A Spyder is a Spyder. A Ryker is a Ryker period!

Tanshanomi
09-13-2018, 03:35 PM
I, personally, do not believe a motorcycle (or three wheeler) should cost the same as a typical car. There is no comparison of the utility of the two, and therefore the inherent value. Just my opinion. I am sure many will not agree.

People routinely foul up that comparison by bench-marking the most expensive motorcycles against fairly ordinary, middle-of-the-range cars. If you want to compare the cost of a Spyder RT Limited to a car, choose a similarly top-of-the-line luxury automobile like a Toyota Avalon Limited, which starts at $41,800. Conversely, A V6 Camaro or Ecoboost Mustang sits waaay lower on automotive cost spectrum. I'd probably say their position in the car market is equivalent in the motorcycle segment to maybe an MT-07, at $7599. [...or a Ryker?]
It's like comparing the price of one restaurant's 5 oz Kobe filet mignon to their competition's half-pound turkey sub — that doesn't really accurately reflect the cost difference between beef and turkey.

Firefly
09-13-2018, 11:15 PM
I agree. My guess is because the Ryker line is going to evolve into the sporty performance machine line. Not just entry level but also more expensive, sport, dual sport and performance minded machines. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 900ACE turbo in that chassis (or a very similar one) in the next model year or two.

The Spyder line will remain and continue to be larger cruiser and touring type machines.

Lets face it, people hear Spyder and they think "old peoples bike". Not trying to offend anyone......its just the way it is. Easiest way for BRP to kill off that notion is start a new brand. Don't try and rebrand the old mans Spyder, just create the young mans Ryker.

Just a guess?

No way is it going to be the 'performance' line... certainly not with a CTV !
The 'old peoples bike' might be the RT, but sure isn't the F3. If you see a turbo it will be on the F3..... that has a far better chance of being their 'performance' line.

CJ.RamMan
09-14-2018, 06:54 AM
After reading many of the posts in this thread I figured i would throw in my three cents. The way I see it is BRP is the parent company, Can-Am is the brand, Spyder, Ryker, etc are the models with different trim levels under the models. A Ryker is not a Spyder. Sure they are both reverse trikes made by the same manufacturer but they are different models. Comparing the cost of a Spyder, Ryker, Harley, sport bike, etc to a car is a poor comparison. Why? Because WE along with many many other people are paying these prices for these machines. Sure we could all buy a twenty thousand dollar economy car to travel around in but where is the fun in that? They know they have a product we want so we will pay their prices.

IWN2RYD
09-14-2018, 07:02 AM
Actually: it sure the Hell! nojoke
But if you prefer to call it as only a basic premise of marketing: go ahead!
You have to remember that a sound marketing strategy is also a basic premise of business... :D
And it IS a Spyder!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoYsfbq3vMc


Bob,

The Ryker is not a Spyder. It is a Can Am product that has been developed to be on its own.

Can Am says it best...


"Can-Am Ryker and Ryker Rally Edition models were launched opening new horizons for the Can-Am On-Road family." (Link (https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/experience/story.html))

Notice they are not saying "Spyder family"? Think of it like GMC and GM. Or Ford & Mercury. or Honda and Acura Etc. Etc. Or better yet... Think of the Ryker as the Sport car division and the Spyders are the luxury/cruiser division.

The Ryker is a product standing on its own merits that will have it's own product line. They did this to not dilute the Spyder line and allow each line to have a clear line in the sand. This is how you protect the resale values and "Crowd" so to speak.

Let's be honest. We all know when the Spyder came out the idea was not aimed squarely at the 50+ year olds. Can Am assumed all ages would love the Spyder. Yet here we are a decade later and it is more of an "40+ Seasoned Adult" product than one for everyone.

The Ryker is a product that will attract a wider audience.

We also know from being "Business smart" That the expensive products pay for the R&D of the less expensive and future products. So the Ryker could not have been the first vehicle launched because the R&D was not there nor was the history to know how to even develop the Ryker.

I could see the Ryker bringing folks back to the Can Am products, get more into the 30+ age market (And of course it will get to some 20+, but not like the crotch rockets do) and be a second "Fun in the sun" rid3 for others that currently have a Spyder.

The Ryker is not a Spyder. The Spyder is not a Ryker. They are family members...

Michaelscs
09-14-2018, 08:01 AM
No way is it going to be the 'performance' line... certainly not with a CTV !
The 'old peoples bike' might be the RT, but sure isn't the F3. If you see a turbo it will be on the F3..... that has a far better chance of being their 'performance' line.

To the red - Your from MI. Haven't you ever driven a snowmobile? They have a CVT exactly like the Ryker and will out perform pretty much anything you've ever driven. A properly set up CVT will not hold back the performance! Now, of course the engine will come in to play.
That being said, for me, I'd want a manual trans.

Rob Rodriguez
09-14-2018, 08:11 AM
No way is it going to be the 'performance' line... certainly not with a CTV !
The 'old peoples bike' might be the RT, but sure isn't the F3. If you see a turbo it will be on the F3..... that has a far better chance of being their 'performance' line.

I think you'll see the current F3 phazed out in the next 4 model years. Not sure what will replace it? A cruiser style bike isn't a performance bike in my opinion. Sure you can have a cruiser that has big power (turbo or no turbo) but that doesn't mean its a "performance" bike. It just means its a big bike with lots of power. An old mans performance bike maybe. Like a big ole Caddy.

Performance bikes are smaller in size, lighter in weight, big on power, ergos that allow the rider to move around them (not locked in to feet up and forward) and have braking and suspension to stop quick and stick to the road. Performance bikes don't care so much about 2nd person seating, storage cases, big windshields, cruise control, heated grips, sound systems, pulling a trailer, etc, etc. (that's the Spyder line F3 and RT) They are built to be powerful, quick, road hugging and agile.

The current Ryker fits my "performance" bike definition much more so than the F3 or RT.. The Ryker really only lacks more power and adjusted ergos. I agree a performance bike needs a proper transmission but I'm sure the SE6 can be place on the Ryker. The CVT is bullet proof and a good tranny but lacks the "drop a gear and punch it ability" I bet the 1330 will even fit into the chassis although I wouldn't call the 1330 a performance engine. I highly doubt BRP would produce an all new chassis that wasn't designed to allow for a true tranny and larger engine. In the next couple of model years you are going to see a Ryker with more power....no doubt. I'm guessing they name it the Ryker RS

vondalyn
09-14-2018, 09:23 AM
I think you'll see the current F3 phazed out in the next 4 model years. Not sure what will replace it? A cruiser style bike isn't a performance bike in my opinion. Sure you can have a cruiser that has big power (turbo or no turbo) but that doesn't mean its a "performance" bike. It just means its a big bike with lots of power. An old mans performance bike maybe. Like a big ole Caddy.

I sure hope not -- I really love my F3S and when I eventually ride it into the ground I'd love to replace it with a newer one.

UtahPete
09-14-2018, 12:18 PM
https://youtu.be/FYtfcKwKe-A

ARtraveler
09-14-2018, 01:51 PM
https://youtu.be/FYtfcKwKe-A

A good video from BRP's marketing dept.
:bowdown::bowdown:

Triumphcycleman
09-15-2018, 02:17 PM
Perception: Spyder = Old People (sad but mostly true)
Ryker = young people (hopefully true)
Perception sometimes equals reality
[
.
It's a Spyder.
Marketed as a Spyder
Sold by Spyder Dealerships
built by Can Am
Developed by Can Am
It's even listed right on the Can Am Spyder website...

What would their logic be in carving it off on it's own?:dontknow:[/QUOTE]

Joe T.
09-17-2018, 04:33 PM
People routinely foul up that comparison by bench-marking the most expensive motorcycles against fairly ordinary, middle-of-the-range cars. If you want to compare the cost of a Spyder RT Limited to a car, choose a similarly top-of-the-line luxury automobile like a Toyota Avalon Limited, which starts at $41,800. Conversely, A V6 Camaro or Ecoboost Mustang sits waaay lower on automotive cost spectrum. I'd probably say their position in the car market is equivalent in the motorcycle segment to maybe an MT-07, at $7599. [...or a Ryker?]
It's like comparing the price of one restaurant's 5 oz Kobe filet mignon to their competition's half-pound turkey sub — that doesn't really accurately reflect the cost difference between beef and turkey.


I think you got my point.

Joe T.

Sarge707
09-17-2018, 04:53 PM
In a Few years there will be a Ryker Fest BUT they May allow Spyders?:opps:

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 06:09 PM
Got to disagree with you there firefly. I believe the F3 and RT will continue on as the "adult", refined tourers but performance will come from the Ryker line. My opinion comes from direct conversation from the engineering team at conference. And believe me, one ride on a 165hp sled with cvt will make you reevaluate your opinion of it. Heck, ride the 900 Ryker and you will quickly discover that from 0-40 it's already quicker than an F3. speaking of F3-S, they are very, very hard to sell, even tho they are (were) our "performance" Spyder. Why? Because our Spyder customer isn't about performance. He/she is about comfort and touring niceties. Sure there are a few exceptions, but ask your local dealer what sells and what doesnt. Spyder means RT and F3 limited. Period. The Ryker will rock the performance arena

No way is it going to be the 'performance' line... certainly not with a CTV !
The 'old peoples bike' might be the RT, but sure isn't the F3. If you see a turbo it will be on the F3..... that has a far better chance of being their 'performance' line.[/QUOTE]

pegasus1300
09-17-2018, 06:12 PM
Have we now gone from "it's not a real motorcycle" to " it's not a real Spyder"?


:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

Pirate looks at --
09-17-2018, 06:12 PM
I agree 100% and am glad they went with a different name for these entry level 'moped-like' trikes.
They did it on purpose so as not to cheapen the Spyder name.

That being said, I'm sure us Spyderlovers will embrace it as our 'little brother' and they'll be welcome to come play with the rest of us. I'd expect a new forum area out here for them just like for the F3 and RT models...
These are not mopeds. I was close to 80 on the freeway with the 600. I am quite sure that triple digits are within easy reach for the 900.

Pirate looks at --
09-17-2018, 06:17 PM
You guys are crazy! It cost a lot of money for a company to brand themselves. There are many people who don't know what a Spyder is let alone what a ryker is. Can am is not launching another brand call Ryker, they are merely introducing a new line of Spyders that will appeal to a Different type of buyer, nothing more. Auto manufacturers have many different models under the same manufacturer, this is the same thing.
After talking with a BRP contingent, this is not a Spyder. The only thing they have in common is the "Y". They are a separate line of vehicles that will be marketed differently than a Spyder.

Pirate looks at --
09-17-2018, 06:21 PM
I'd be curious to see their rationale behind the name Ryker. If it's about bringing awareness and accessibility to the Spyder line why not call it the Can Am Spyder R6 (600cc) R9 (900cc) and RR (rally).... Or if the R is too over used from other models (rs, rss, rt, rts, rtl etc) pick another letter. Someone in another thread even suggested calling it an F1?

I guess the one takeaway is that the Ryker is NOT a Spyder and they don't want it to be, if they wanted it to be another Spyder model they would have named it such.
Yep not a Spyder! The name RYKER is being used to emphasize what this product has in common with the Spyder the "Y" and the VSS.

delkhouri
09-17-2018, 06:22 PM
These are not mopeds. I was close to 80 on the freeway with the 600. I am quite sure that triple digits are within easy reach for the 900.

What were your rpms at 80 on the freeway with the 600?

Pirate looks at --
09-17-2018, 06:28 PM
I couldn't tell you as I was holding on for dear life!:yikes:

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 06:29 PM
Firefly,
Ask your local dealer what he/she ordered and why.




Got to disagree with you there firefly. I believe the F3 and RT will continue on as the "adult", refined tourers but performance will come from the Ryker line. My opinion comes from direct conversation from the engineering team at conference. And believe me, one ride on a 165hp sled with cvt will make you reevaluate your opinion of it. Heck, ride the 900 Ryker and you will quickly discover that from 0-40 it's already quicker than an F3. speaking of F3-S, they are very, very hard to sell, even tho they are (were) our "performance" Spyder. Why? Because our Spyder customer isn't about performance. He/she is about comfort and touring niceties. Sure there are a few exceptions, but ask your local dealer what sells and what doesnt. Spyder means RT and F3 limited. Period. The Ryker will rock the performance arena

No way is it going to be the 'performance' line... certainly not with a CTV !
The 'old peoples bike' might be the RT, but sure isn't the F3. If you see a turbo it will be on the F3..... that has a far better chance of being their 'performance' line.[/QUOTE]

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 06:46 PM
Rob, what engine is in our most powerful sxs, the X3? It's the turbocharged 900. And it is 172 hp trying to rapidly move a whole lot more weight than a Ryker using..... you guessed it, a souped up CVT. That package is the future of BRP performance, and it is already practically perfected


QUOTE=Rob Rodriguez;1391626]I think you'll see the current F3 phazed out in the next 4 model years. Not sure what will replace it? A cruiser style bike isn't a performance bike in my opinion. Sure you can have a cruiser that has big power (turbo or no turbo) but that doesn't mean its a "performance" bike. It just means its a big bike with lots of power. An old mans performance bike maybe. Like a big ole Caddy.

Performance bikes are smaller in size, lighter in weight, big on power, ergos that allow the rider to move around them (not locked in to feet up and forward) and have braking and suspension to stop quick and stick to the road. Performance bikes don't care so much about 2nd person seating, storage cases, big windshields, cruise control, heated grips, sound systems, pulling a trailer, etc, etc. (that's the Spyder line F3 and RT) They are built to be powerful, quick, road hugging and agile.

The current Ryker fits my "performance" bike definition much more so than the F3 or RT.. The Ryker really only lacks more power and adjusted ergos. I agree a performance bike needs a proper transmission but I'm sure the SE6 can be place on the Ryker. The CVT is bullet proof and a good tranny but lacks the "drop a gear and punch it ability" I bet the 1330 will even fit into the chassis although I wouldn't call the 1330 a performance engine. I highly doubt BRP would produce an all new chassis that wasn't designed to allow for a true tranny and larger engine. In the next couple of model years you are going to see a Ryker with more power....no doubt. I'm guessing they name it the Ryker RS[/QUOTE]

Rob Rodriguez
09-17-2018, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=Triumphcycleman;1392471]Rob, what engine is in our most powerful sxs, the X3? It's the turbocharged 900. And it is 172 hp trying to rapidly move a whole lot more weight than a Ryker using..... you guessed it, a souped up CVT. That package is the future of BRP performance, and it is already practically perfected


Yeah, its in the sleds as well (although detuned to 150hp) and from what I'm told in the Sea-Doo. I fully expect the Ryker to have a 800 ACE turbo and I'm hoping that happens next model year (2020). I only wish BRP had done all this sooner.

I'm no stranger to CVT's. I used to snocross race sleds and have been riding them all my life. Sleds are awesome (well the 2 stroke ones) at corner to corner pull and acceleration. In fact that's one of the things I miss in my spyder. It just doesn't have the same "snap" a sleds has corner to corner. I'm hoping the Ryker brings that to the fun. My only issue with a CVT in a bike is the "pass factor". There are times when you need to quickly drop a gear (boost RPM) and punch the throttle for a quick pass. That's tough to do with a CVT. With a CVT you need to just punch it to raise the RPM and gain more speed but doing that may not bring the speed on fast enough. I'm sure you know what I mean. Other than that I'm totally fine with a CVT. Anything to make the experience more sled like I'm all for.

My only other concern with the Ryker is seating position. I don't do the F3 because there is no comfortable seating position. As long as the foot pegs can be brought back far enough so my legs are basically straight up and down or just slightly forward it will be OK. if that's not possible then the Ryker will be a tough sell to me.

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 07:23 PM
Well that might be a tough one for you, quite honestly. The seat height is so low and into the chassis that there is no room directly under you (like an RS). I started my demo ride with the pegs super close to me and it felt like I imagine a gynacologists chair does. I ended up moving it about 1/2 way along its axis and it felt great. The best analogy would be a pre rev MXZ chassis foot position. Definately feet forward, but not exactly cruiser like


My only other concern with yhe Ryker is seating position. I don't do the F3 because there is no comfortable seating position. As long as the foot pegs can be brought back far enough so my legs are basically straight up and down or just slightly forward it will be OK. if that's not possible then the Ryker will be a tough sell to me.[/QUOTE]

Rob Rodriguez
09-17-2018, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=Triumphcycleman;1392477]Well that might be a tough one for you, quite honestly. The seat height is so low and into the chassis that there is no room directly under you (like an RS). I started my demo ride with the pegs super close to me and it felt like I imagine a gynacologists chair does. I ended up moving it about 1/2 way along its axis and it felt great. The best analogy would be a pre rev MXZ chassis foot position. Definately feet forward, but not exactly cruiser like

Yes, there is no way I can ride a pre REV sled anymore. My kids have older style sleds. I ride a couple laps around the field and I wonder how snowmobiling survived before the REV LOL :) I own an RS now. There are definitely things about the RS I'd change but the seating position suits me well. I'd love to buy a new Spyder/Ryker but I need a bike I can be comfortable on for 400-500 miles a day and the correct seating position is key for that. I'll have to test ride one and see how it goes. A 30 mile test ride on the F3 and I was done. I knew it would never work.

I suppose the only Spyder that would be close to an RS seating position now is an RT but I'd throw myself off a cliff before i bought/rode one. Ha :)

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 07:43 PM
Maybe if the aftermarket world comes up with a much higher seat...

Yes, there is no way I can ride a pre REV sled anymore. My kids have older style sleds. I ride a couple laps around the field and I wonder how snowmobiling survived before the REV LOL :) I own an RS now. There are definitely things about the RS I'd change but the seating position suits me well. I'd love to buy a new Spyder/Ryker but I need a bike I can be comfortable on for 400-500 miles a day and the correct seating position is key for that. I'll have to test ride one and see how it goes. A 30 mile test ride on the F3 and I was done. I knew it would never work.

I suppose the only Spyder that would be close to an RS seating position now is an RT but I'd throw myself off a cliff before i bought/rode one. Ha :)[/QUOTE]

Rob Rodriguez
09-17-2018, 07:56 PM
[QUOTE=Triumphcycleman;1392482]Maybe if the aftermarket world comes up with a much higher seat...

Maybe I should design my own. I'm sure better mirrors are in order over the factory handlebar ones and a few others things could be done.

Triumphcycleman
09-17-2018, 08:22 PM
That's a great observation and pretty darn accurate per the test ride. I am pretty darn sure the Ryker will beat an F3 to 50, maybe 60. After that the torque and transmission of the F3 would likely pull it past the Ryker in short order. I think only a turbo (or supercharger from the Sea Doo) timed to boost via the rear wheel speed sensor linked to the crank trigger sensor (avoid boost at wheel spin) would allow a precise waste gate operation and greatly increase the torque. They would likely change the CVT clutch fingers on the drive clutch to optimize the transition. That and changing the main clutch spring. Actually, the more I think about it, the ramps would probably be what they change. And that is the great thing about a CVT. It is so tunable, unlike a regular gearbox




My only issue with a CVT in a bike is the "pass factor". There are times when you need to quickly drop a gear (boost RPM) and punch the throttle for a quick pass. That's tough to do with a CVT. With a CVT you need to just punch it to raise the RPM and gain more speed but doing that may not bring the speed on fast enough. I'm sure you know what I mean. Other than that I'm totally fine with a CVT. Anything to make the experience more sled like I'm all for.

Bfromla
09-18-2018, 02:12 AM
After talking with a BRP contingent, this is not a Spyder. The only thing they have in common is the "Y". They are a separate line of vehicles that will be marketed differently than a Spyder.
What about access for checking fluids & battery?:dontknow: Read about the sliding door for gas, does it lock??
thx

Dubliner
09-18-2018, 05:40 AM
There is no way the Purchaser of my GS would have paid the amount he did if this new Can Am model was around. He would be the proud owner of a new 2019 vehicle instead of a used 2008 vehicle for a few hundred more dollars more. Take a look at how many used Spyders are for sale out there. I can’t believe I sold mine :ohyea:

I don’t know, I’m considering buying an RSS over the Ryker. I’d love to see the new Ryker model of course and get an idea of the physical size of it but my fear is that with both of us on it we might look like two bumblebees on a match. Of course you guys will be getting it for a lot less than those of us north of the border. Which makes it more sense to look at the older model for me.
I think I’ll wait though ‘till it makes it’s appearance before I make any final decision! They have made a few unique changes that might make it all worthwhile. There again those of us who take the plunge will be the guinea pigs. It is curious though that they are offering only one year warranty which you can extend (at an extra cost) so they must know that the whole plot is thoroughly reliable or they’ve ironed all the bugs out of it.

Sarge707
09-18-2018, 07:26 AM
I don’t know, I’m considering buying an RSS over the Ryker. I’d love to see the new Ryker model of course and get an idea of the physical size of it but my fear is that with both of us on it we might look like two bumblebees on a match. Of course you guys will be getting it for a lot less than those of us north of the border. Which makes it more sense to look at the older model for me.
I think I’ll wait though ‘till it makes it’s appearance before I make any final decision! They have made a few unique changes that might make it all worthwhile. There again those of us who take the plunge will be the guinea pigs. It is curious though that they are offering only one year warranty which you can extend (at an extra cost) so they must know that the whole plot is thoroughly reliable or they’ve ironed all the bugs out of it.

When I did an on line pre-order pending test drive they are offering an additional year of BEST FREE if you actually order before Jan 31st, I believe.

Pirate looks at --
09-18-2018, 08:44 AM
What about access for checking fluids & battery?:dontknow: Read about the sliding door for gas, does it lock??
thx
Just open a panel on the side, it just pops open easily, and your dip stick is right there. They even have a clip on funnel to add oil!

Bob Denman
09-18-2018, 09:27 AM
can we go back to the "almost 80 mph" statement?
I assume that you were riding solo...
Did the Ryker appear to reach that speed with relative ease; or did it come with a hefty amount of effort? :dontknow:

Tanshanomi
09-18-2018, 12:14 PM
My only issue with a CVT in a bike is the "pass factor". There are times when you need to quickly drop a gear (boost RPM) and punch the throttle for a quick pass. That's tough to do with a CVT. With a CVT you need to just punch it to raise the RPM and gain more speed but doing that may not bring the speed on fast enough. I'm sure you know what I mean. Other than that I'm totally fine with a CVT. Anything to make the experience more sled like I'm all for.

Properly tuned, a CVT should run at the engine's peak torque RPM, regardless of speed. You should already BE at the engine speed you'd shift down to get to on a manual transmission. That's the beauty of a CVT.

ARtraveler
09-18-2018, 12:33 PM
I don’t know, I’m considering buying an RSS over the Ryker. I’d love to see the new Ryker model of course and get an idea of the physical size of it but my fear is that with both of us on it we might look like two bumblebees on a match. Of course you guys will be getting it for a lot less than those of us north of the border. Which makes it more sense to look at the older model for me.
I think I’ll wait though ‘till it makes it’s appearance before I make any final decision! They have made a few unique changes that might make it all worthwhile. There again those of us who take the plunge will be the guinea pigs. It is curious though that they are offering only one year warranty which you can extend (at an extra cost) so they must know that the whole plot is thoroughly reliable or they’ve ironed all the bugs out of it.

Based on what I have seen so far--there was a picture of the Ryker parked by an RT. The Ryker was about 3/4 size.

IMO--the Ryker is not going to be a good "two up" machine. I have referred to the optional passenger seat as a "suicide" seat. No friend of mine would be relegated to that seat. The seat is available--but definitely a second or third class ride for the passenger.

I was a "beta tester" for 2008, 2009 SE, 2010 RT, and 2014 1330 RT. I am going to leave that for others this go around. I will add, that my experiences were ALL GOOD though. :yes:

Bob Denman
09-18-2018, 01:08 PM
They've crossed this County on scooters: nythinbg is possible... :thumbup:

Triumphcycleman
09-18-2018, 01:48 PM
That funnel was to be able to add gasoline to the tank when filling from a jug. It has a cap-less fuel intake just like my F150 pickup, and unless you have a gas station style pump nozzle, it will be tough to add fuel without the little funnel to open the vent in system



Just open a panel on the side, it just pops open easily, and your dip stick is right there. They even have a clip on funnel to add oil!

jdsky
09-18-2018, 02:10 PM
New to the forum and joined to learn a bit more about the Ryker. So being an avid sledder and currently have two 4 stroke Doo's. One is with the 900 Ace engine which I have had now for five seasons. It has been bullet proof so the decision to bring this mill to yet another summer toy is genius. Question. Why is the 900 rated at 77HP? It is 90HP+ in my sled and with a couple of simple and cheap mods 100HP is easy. A turbo in the future is likely a no brainer in the future as most new toys come first with lower outputs and then get more powerful options in future model years to spur sales.

So while I get the no turbo option right now but why only 77HP from a motor that is capable of much more in naturally aspirated form???

Rob Rodriguez
09-18-2018, 02:15 PM
New to the forum and joined to learn a bit more about the Ryker. So being an avid sledder and currently have two 4 stroke Doo's. One is with the 900 Ace engine which I have had now for five seasons. It has been bullet proof so the decision to bring this mill to yet another summer toy is genius. Question. Why is the 900 rated at 77HP? It is 90HP+ in my sled and with a couple of simple and cheap mods 100HP is easy. A turbo in the future is likely a no brainer in the future as most new toys come first with lower outputs and then get more powerful options in future model years to spur sales.

So while I get the no turbo option right now but why only 77HP from a motor that is capable of much more in naturally aspirated form???


I'd love to know the answer to this as well.

Tanshanomi
09-18-2018, 02:24 PM
New to the forum and joined to learn a bit more about the Ryker. So being an avid sledder and currently have two 4 stroke Doo's. One is with the 900 Ace engine which I have had now for five seasons. It has been bullet proof so the decision to bring this mill to yet another summer toy is genius. Question. Why is the 900 rated at 77HP? It is 90HP+ in my sled and with a couple of simple and cheap mods 100HP is easy. A turbo in the future is likely a no brainer in the future as most new toys come first with lower outputs and then get more powerful options in future model years to spur sales.

So while I get the no turbo option right now but why only 77HP from a motor that is capable of much more in naturally aspirated form???

I can guess at two possible factors: 1) meeting the much more stringent emissions requirements of road-going vehicles, and, 2) Being softer tuned for better reliability, especially with the thermal issues inherent in summer/desert heat, which sleds don't have to endure.

old Timer
09-18-2018, 02:26 PM
I suspect two good reasons.

The first is EPA emission and sound regulations.

The second is the engine is most likely tuned for torque which is the ideal with a ATV style CVT transmission. Higher torque is generally somewhere in the mid RPM range where higher HP is generally at the high end of the RPM range.

Enhancing the torque of an engine would be more user friendly and more ideal for this application.

Bob Denman
09-18-2018, 02:27 PM
:agree:, and Welcome to the Forum! :2thumbs:
(You good old RykerLyker! :roflblack:)
And thanks for the comments about the 900's reliability!

jdsky
09-18-2018, 08:04 PM
Absolutely love my Ski Doo 4 stroke snowmobiles. I have been sledding for decades and with running two machines, one for myself and one for my son, it makes a ton of sense to ditch burning oil and going with something engineered for reliability. These ACE motors are just fantastic engines and a testament to BRP's ability to design motors that can handle the punishment of both winter and summer powersports extremes.

Appears that BRP is following what they have done with watercraft and the Sea Doo Spark bringing a similar philosophy to their three wheeled asphalt machines. Incredibly smart and will open up a completely new world for three wheeled enthusiasts.

I have to come clean. While I have owned BRP products since 2005 I have test ridden the Spyder at my dealer quite a few times and even though it has evolved a lot over the years it has just not been for me. I have however been a long time fan of two wheels, first dirtbike at the age of 11 and first road bike at the age of 15. I have also been on three wheels the last 4 years in the Slingshot. That was an extremely fun toy and one that my wife and I enjoyed quite a bit. I recently sold the Slingshot and now this comes along.

I will definitely be taking one out for a test ride next season and at this price point think BRP will have a huge winner on their hands. I would definitely be interested in a Rally as we have a lot of rough paved roads here and even more gravel roads that I could totally see hammering with this toy. Something we do now with UTV's but on this can see the potential for having even more fun. May just be adding a pair of these to the toy shed next year....

old Timer
09-19-2018, 06:13 AM
Appears that BRP is following what they have done with watercraft and the Sea Doo Spark bringing a similar philosophy to their three wheeled asphalt machines. Incredibly smart and will open up a completely new world for three wheeled enthusiasts.

Absolutely. :thumbup:

Culpjp
09-19-2018, 08:33 AM
So while I get the no turbo option right now but why only 77HP from a motor that is capable of much more in naturally aspirated form???

You have to remember an on road vehicle is used much differently than an off road vehicle.
Not many ATV's and snowmobiles are ridden at highway speeds for hours, and hours at a time.
BRP has shown a turbo for the 1330, but never put it into production. They have their reasons why.
Cost could be another. A turbo isn't going to be as cheap, and low price is one selling point that BRP is pushing with the Ryker.

Kiry
09-19-2018, 09:24 AM
IF I purchased a Ryker, it would be for a fun machine. That go out and hit the gravel roads, and short spins. It would not be to replace my F3. It's looks like a different machine, different tool.

I still think it's pretty cool. Kind of reminds me of a dirt bike in a way.

jdsky
09-19-2018, 04:04 PM
You have to remember an on road vehicle is used much differently than an off road vehicle.
Not many ATV's and snowmobiles are ridden at highway speeds for hours, and hours at a time.
BRP has shown a turbo for the 1330, but never put it into production. They have their reasons why.
Cost could be another. A turbo isn't going to be as cheap, and low price is one selling point that BRP is pushing with the Ryker.

Makes sense but I have seen some of the dune crasher's push their turbo Can-AM SxS's pretty hard in the desert. Many of these are also tuned far beyond stock turbo HP levels and the 900 Ace just keeps taking all of the abuse.

To the cost standpoint. The cost delta between a Turbo and non-Turbo snowmobile is only $2500 everything else being the same. While that might push the cost of a Turbo 900 Ryker closer to the $14K mark that is still a price-point that I think an enthusiast looking for this kind of performance woudl definitely pay for.

Rob Rodriguez
09-19-2018, 07:24 PM
Makes sense but I have seen some of the dune crasher's push their turbo Can-AM SxS's pretty hard in the desert. Many of these are also tuned far beyond stock turbo HP levels and the 900 Ace just keeps taking all of the abuse.

To the cost standpoint. The cost delta between a Turbo and non-Turbo snowmobile is only $2500 everything else being the same. While that might push the cost of a Turbo 900 Ryker closer to the $14K mark that is still a price-point that I think an enthusiast looking for this kind of performance woudl definitely pay for.


Yep, I'd count out the cash right now for a 900 turbo

monkeyboymorton
09-21-2018, 10:53 AM
Yep, I'd count out the cash right now for a 900 turbo

Me too, I'd be happy to pay £13000-£14000 for a Ryker Turbo.

jdsky
09-21-2018, 01:13 PM
I don't think they could build 900 Turbo versions fast enough to keep up with demand. The Maverick Turbo SxS is rated at 154HP. The new Turbo 900 powered snowmobile is rated at 150HP but early dyno runs are looking as if that's very conservative as one was recently published at 166HP. BRP has always been very conservative when publishing HP numbers for this motor. Which leads me to believe its possible even the 77HP number for the Ryker will also be a bit on the low side of actual.

Even if they stayed conservative with the ECU mapping for a Ryker turbo version at 120 or 130HP it would be far within the limits of what this motor is actually capable of and be the the most wicked performance trike on the market for the money. A quick tune and it could easily become a 150 -175HP asphalt shredder.......

Bob Denman
09-21-2018, 01:36 PM
Rotax has always known how to build horsepower... :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

gg194
09-21-2018, 06:56 PM
Horsepower yes! Had a 175cc Can Am dirt bike in '75 that was a rocket, would run with most 250's and some open class bikes.

Deanna777
09-21-2018, 07:07 PM
this ryker won't have any negative effect on the resale of our rides. I say this because the ryker will increase brand awareness and value. Chris:agree: Deanna

jcthorne
09-22-2018, 06:38 AM
this ryker won't have any negative effect on the resale of our rides. I say this because the ryker will increase brand awareness and value. Chris


Not directly, but indirectly it already has. BRP lowered list pricing for the 2019s and tossed 5k rebates on 18s...

Street pricing for new F3L is down to 20k from 28
New F3T down to 16.5 and F3S at 13.5.

The used market is dropping fast to slip in under those points. With used F3S now below 10k its going to push 998 bikes further down. With the Ryker at under 10k new, there will be pressure to push older RS and ST models even further down. You will see them in the 7k range soon after the Ryker becomes readily available and also discounted.

Bob Denman
09-22-2018, 07:29 AM
Horsepower yes! Had a 175cc Can Am dirt bike in '75 that was a rocket, would run with most 250's and some open class bikes.
If I remember correctly: that was a rotary valve two-stroke... in a World of piston port engines!
A "Wolf among the Sheep"!

Nico75
03-19-2019, 03:42 PM
It's a bleeding RYKER full stop.

Beebo
03-20-2019, 05:43 AM
I’ve got about 1000 miles on my Ryker rally now. One 400 mile round trip on the super slab and the rest just raging around the Metroplex. GREAT FUN! Its different from a spider and more like a snowmobile for the asphalt. Loads of fun and is a blast to drift everywhere! For me it was a great purchase. YMMV

JAS POWER
03-20-2019, 07:29 AM
What about the Ryker resale value???

My opinion is they won't be very good.

Also when I was at the dealership over the weekend they had the Ryker lined up next to the Spyder's, and they look like a little big wheel compared to the Spyder's when lined up the way they had them at the dealership. What stood out to me is when you look at them next to a Spyder my 1st though was you get what you pay for, there is absolutely a reason the Ryker has a cheaper MSRP. You can see that plain as day.

The Rykers in my opinion will not hurt resale value to Spyder's. They are in a class / brand by themselves. Someone else mentioned the styling won't appeal to all. I don't see the Ryker as comfortable (you can feel how small it is), and or good looking in the least bit. I like the RS-S style seating position / foot position, & a super sport bike look.

I wouldn't be concerned with the resale of Spyder's, but the Ryker I would bet you will be able to pick these up used for cheap in less than 4 years.

Ryker2112
03-20-2019, 07:48 AM
Personally, I really think they are different markets / targets (as an overarching statement).

I've never had any interest (and still don't) in the Spyder line. They are way too "touring" focused to suit me, the closest I've ever owned to a touring machine is a Ducati Monster, lol.

The Ryker on the other hand is a 3 wheeled fun machine that caught my interest the minute I saw it. To be honest, I wrote it off at first assuming pricing would be way higher like the spider line. Started doing some online research and put a deposit down later that week...

I there there is a portion of the population of Spyder owners who will also have interest in the Ryker, but I have to believe there is a much larger population out there like myself, who wouldn't be on 3 wheels at all without a machine like this. Smaller, lighter, sportier, a "toy".

They are pulling new people into their fold, which is an awesome move.

Resale on used I'm sure will be very reasonable. These shouldn't depreciate much more or less than any other sport oriented bikes. The next few years will probably bring decent used money until more get out into the used marked, and like anything else it will depend on what the market will bring in any given area.

I also have to assume that they are trying to force some into the used market by offering and seemingly pushing pretty hard on leases. That's a great way to get some used on the sales floors relatively quickly.

Given the price points being what they are, I can't say that resale value really came into my mind as a part of the purchase decision.



What about the Ryker resale value???

My opinion is they won't be very good.

Also when I was at the dealership over the weekend they had the Ryker lined up next to the Spyder's, and they look like a little big wheel compared to the Spyder's when lined up the way they had them at the dealership. What stood out to me is when you look at them next to a Spyder my 1st though was you get what you pay for, there is absolutely a reason the Ryker has a cheaper MSRP. You can see that plain as day.

The Rykers in my opinion will not hurt resale value to Spyder's. They are in a class / brand by themselves. Someone else mentioned the styling won't appeal to all. I don't see the Ryker as comfortable (you can feel how small it is), and or good looking in the least bit. I like the RS-S style seating position / foot position, & a super sport bike look.

I wouldn't be concerned with the resale of Spyder's, but the Ryker I would recon you will be able to pick these up used for cheap in less than 4 years.

JAS POWER
03-20-2019, 08:34 AM
I've never had any interest (and still don't) in the Spyder line. They are way too "touring" focused to suit me, the closest I've ever owned to a touring machine is a Ducati Monster, lol.

Agree 100% the Spyder lineup since 2014 is very touring/ cruising focused (that's the crowd that is buying them), the Spyder GS, & RS(S) models are the sportiest Spyder / Rykers by far!

My RS-S in my garage looks just as sporty as my Yamaha super sport bike! The riding position of the RS-S is also very similar to my Yamaha super bike. I don't know of any "sporty" bike that puts the legs out in front of you as the Ryker / F3 does, & making you reach for the sky to find the handle bars for sure is far from a sporty feel. I don't see any bikes at a race track that resemble the Ryker riding position.

The Ryker if you want to compare it to a "sporty" bike would be like Harley's attempt at the sport bike, all those have terrible resale value.

I think Can-Am tip toed on the styling, riding position, because they know the age of people buying the Spyder's, and still are not sure if they are going to pull the young kids out of their cars. Can-Am made sure the crowd buying Spyder's now will have some interest in the Ryker in the way of looks, & riding position in general.

In a nut shell any new low MSRP priced bike / Ryker will carry a low resale value, same is even true with cars. The one thing I feel that can add to a low priced new MSRP vehicle in general is its reputation for dependability. Then people won't be afraid to purchase a used one with some miles opposed to buying a new one.

Ryker2112
03-20-2019, 08:54 AM
Don't disagree, and certainly didn't mean to imply that the riding position itself shares any similarities with a sport bike.

I WILL say, for what its worth, its the first thing I've been on where I still feel fully in control with a feet forward and body upright riding position.

I've ridden plenty of Harleys, and other touring bikes and have never truly felt comfortable / in control with my feet forward. This machine is very different and I don't have any of those same reservations when riding it. Regardless of foot and bar position, this thing just begs to be thrown around, slid around, and played with. Its simply awesome.

That said, its not a replacement for my sport bike / track toy either, but is a fun evening / weekend warrior and pleasant addition to the stable.



Agree 100% the Spyder lineup since 2014 is very touring/ cruising focused (that's the crowd that is buying them), the Spyder GS, & RS(S) models are the sportiest Spyder / Rykers by far!

My RS-S in my garage looks just as sporty as my Yamaha super sport bike! The riding position of the RS-S is also very similar to my Yamaha super bike. I don't know of any "sporty" bike that puts the legs out in front of you as the Ryker / F3 does, & making you reach for the sky to find the handle bars for sure is far from a sporty feel. I don't see any bikes at a race track that resemble the Ryker riding position.

The Ryker if you want to compare it to a "sporty" bike would be like Harley's attempt at the sport bike, all those have terrible resale value.

I think Can-Am tip toed on the styling, riding position, because they know the age of people buying the Spyder's, and still are not sure if they are going to pull the young kids out of their cars. Can-Am made sure the crowd buying Spyder's now will have some interest in the Ryker in the way of looks, & riding position in general.

In a nut shell any new low MSRP priced bike / Ryker will carry a low resale value, same is even true with cars. The one thing I feel that can add to a low priced new MSRP vehicle in general is its reputation for dependability. Then people won't be afraid to purchase a used one with some miles opposed to buying a new one.

JAS POWER
03-20-2019, 09:05 AM
I WILL say, for what its worth, its the first thing I've been on where I still feel fully in control with a feet forward and body upright riding position.

I've ridden plenty of Harleys, and other touring bikes and have never truly felt comfortable / in control with my feet forward. This machine is very different and I don't have any of those same reservations when riding it. Regardless of foot and bar position, this thing just begs to be thrown around, slid around, and played with. Its simply awesome.

Very happy to hear this! I HATE the rider forward feel on everything else I've ridden or even sat on!

I am betting the low seat height (center of gravity) plays a huge role in what you are saying.?.?. I could easily see the big grin just like when you were a kid and 1st put your butt in a "big wheel" thats what the Ryker feels like to me when sitting on one:clap: I still would have a hard time buying one new anyways because of the rider position / looks. Couple years from now a used one may very well be in the garage.

Rob Rodriguez
03-20-2019, 09:28 AM
I was playing with seating positions the other day at the dealer. I current own an RS and I haven't bought a new Spyder because the seating position of the F3 is not for me and the RT....well, I'm not old enough to have an RT :) I find with the Ryker the adjustment is enough to get my feet mostly underneath me if I want or put them out in front. The 30 min. I spent trying it out on the showroom floor I think having my feet in front of me just a bit (not quite all the way back on the slider) was best. Felt comfortable and in control. I just need the snow to go away so I can test ride one to be sure.

cdakers
03-20-2019, 09:36 AM
If I remember correctly: that was a rotary valve two-stroke... in a World of piston port engines!
A "Wolf among the Sheep"!
Absolutely correct! I remember cutting the disk that constituted the 'rotary valve' to cause to intake port to stay open longer. Even more hp for free! The weak link was the suspension. More like a complete lack of. I fixed the rear by relocating the lower shock mount on the swingarm several inches forward and swapping the shocks for a longer set of Bilstein. That helped, but it was still a handful. Great engine!