Help explaining Airline Charges

[canamjhb]

My wife and I are not frequent travelers. She went to visit her family recently. She booked a flight from point A to B and return to point A 4 weeks later. There was a death in the family so she had to change the date from A to B. The booking airline could not accommodate the dates needed so she canceled A to B and paid another airline for a flight from A to B. She was told and accepted that the cost of the original flight from A to B was nonrefundable. Now, come time to fly back from B back to A. The original airline would not honor her ticket. They said since she canceled the first leg of her flight a month previously that they will not honor her ticket from B back to A. And to make matters worse, they will not credit her with the amount paid. She wound up buying another ticket to get home. So, bottom line is, she bought two tickets to get to point B and two tickets to get back to point A. Does this sound like good business to you.....? What is going on with this airline system.....? I was in the banking business and If I ran the bank this way I would have been out of business in 15 minutes (or less)

[LeftCoast]

I think it’s horrible. I went through a similar experience trying to get my family home on Allegiant from Grand Forks when my son did orientation there and Allegiant cancelled the flight. We incurred an extra day car rental to drive 4 hours to Bismarck plus gas and missed every downstream connection we had with them adding an overnight in Vegas. We got maybe half our out of pocket costs reimbursed.

If you have one of those consumer advocate folks at a newspaper or tv station this is the sort of stuff to try to get them involved in. What airline was it?

[johnsimion]

My wife and I are not frequent travelers. She went to visit her family recently. She booked a flight from point A to B and return to point A 4 weeks later. There was a death in the family so she had to change the date from A to B. The booking airline could not accommodate the dates needed so she canceled A to B and paid another airline for a flight from A to B. She was told and accepted that the cost of the original flight from A to B was nonrefundable. Now, come time to fly back from B back to A. The original airline would not honor her ticket. They said since she canceled the first leg of her flight a month previously that they will not honor her ticket from B back to A. And to make matters worse, they will not credit her with the amount paid. She wound up buying another ticket to get home. So, bottom line is, she bought two tickets to get to point B and two tickets to get back to point A. Does this sound like good business to you.....? What is going on with this airline system.....? I was in the banking business and If I ran the bank this way I would have been out of business in 15 minutes (or less)

More information is needed, particularly dates and times. There are time limits that make a difference.

Even at that, I can truthfully say that I've never heard of anyone cancelling the first leg of a ticket but retaining the return leg. Did she do this online or by talking to a person? I certainly don't see any way to cancel only part of it online only. If it was a human ... maybe. Is it possible that she accidentally cancelled the entire flight? If so, depending on the timing, she might have been entitled to airline credit on another flight -- although you'd have to ask for it. See http://traveltips.usatoday.com/cancel-nonrefundable-flight-62957.html

It kind of sounds like you both got BS'd by the airline over the phone. In the future, google the airline's policies before you call them so they can't BS you over the phone. If you aren't happy with the answer you get, ask to speak to the manager. The airlines have a lot of discretion. Talking to the manager usually gets you a better result -- or at least a better explanation for what they're doing.

One way to avoid this issue in the future would be to book two one-way tickets. On Southwest, two one-way tickets cost exactly the same as a roundtrip ticket, but if you have two tickets, you can cancel one and keep the other. Again, if you cancel you should get credit for a future flight. I believe this is also true on Spirit, Allegiant, and possibly others.

[ThreeWheels]

I can't figure out the logic behind airline fares either
It's all part of what I call the "Consumer Race To The Bottom".
We're all out to try and save 2 cents whenever we can.
This forces companies to come up with some bizarre pricing schemes.
I just canceled a two day motorcycle trip because of the rain. I had gotten the "Event Special" rate at a motel.
I was charged for both days because I canceled with less than one weeks notice.
I fully understand getting charged the one day's deposit, but both days ?
I know I don't have a leg to stand on, but trying to save myself $15.00 cost me over $200.
Still that was their stated policy. So if I ever go to that event again, I'll go to another hotel, and pay the $15.00 extra.
Again, it's what I call the Race To The Bottom. It's why WalMart is flooded with such cheap crap. We're the ones buying it. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Orange Spyder Man]

simple explanation..... GREED.... not good business ... but it seems to be the new way of doing business..

[Bob Denman]

This is why I ride my Spyder to faraway places...

[Chupaca]

I know their policy of no changes, cancellations, transfers etc. They now have a basic economy that is killer but cheaper. Now if you change the schedule they used to charge you 100.00 and you paid the difference for the new price. But if it is due to a death in the family you got them a copy of death certificate (morbid I know) and they allowed changes. The only help now-a-days is flight insurance...:banghead::banghead: you could try to talk to them with proof of the reason and maybe get something back...

[LeftCoast]

The other option is to try to talk to a manager that has some decision making flexibility to help but this also depends on airline. With Allegiant it’s even hard to get to a human. With Delta my wife spent 2 hours on the phone but finally got to a manager who helped us to make changes to get my son home from college without additional change fees (we already made one set weeks ago that cost us a boatload even though we purchased a changeable ticket). It took some perseverance but this person was great and we got the needed changes made for no extra cost.

[Culpjp]

. Does this sound like good business to you.....? What is going on with this airline system.....? I was in the banking business and If I ran the bank this way I would have been out of business in 15 minutes (or less)
It's simple, how many Banks are there versus airlines? Less choices means the consumer has less options to go someplace else I'd they don't like the service.
Like others have said we have been screwed over by our own choices to always save a buck versus getting better service.

[RinconRyder]

My wife and I are not frequent travelers. She went to visit her family recently. She booked a flight from point A to B and return to point A 4 weeks later. There was a death in the family so she had to change the date from A to B. The booking airline could not accommodate the dates needed so she canceled A to B and paid another airline for a flight from A to B. She was told and accepted that the cost of the original flight from A to B was nonrefundable. Now, come time to fly back from B back to A. The original airline would not honor her ticket. They said since she canceled the first leg of her flight a month previously that they will not honor her ticket from B back to A. And to make matters worse, they will not credit her with the amount paid. She wound up buying another ticket to get home. So, bottom line is, she bought two tickets to get to point B and two tickets to get back to point A. Does this sound like good business to you.....? What is going on with this airline system.....? I was in the banking business and If I ran the bank this way I would have been out of business in 15 minutes (or less)

My wife is a reservation agent for American Airlines and deals with this issue virtually each and every day.

The short answer is that some airlines have a policy that if you cancel (the keyword is cancel) any leg of a multi leg flight their rez systems will automatically cancel the remaining legs of that itinerary. Some airlines may refund all or part of the unused fare but most won't. Note that not showing up for the next leg of the trip also cancels the entire remaining trip.

There are two possible solutions and one remote possibility:

The easiest, and most expensive, is to buy a fully refundable fare. That will cost you money up front but you can get the unused portion of the trip refunded. NOTE: It may not be refunded in cash but rather a future travel voucher AND it might expire after a period of time so read the fine print.

If you bought a non-refundable fare and can't use all of it give the reservation agent at the airline a call and explain your situation but do so BEFORE you cancel or make any changes to the original itinerary. Depending upon circumstances the agent may be able to re-accommodate you on another flight or airline or make monetary adjustments to the fare. No guarantees though.

The third option and this may or may not be available depending upon your destination is to buy the non-refundable fare but then purchase travel insurance to cover the cost of changing your trip should circumstances require. This may only be available for certain types of travel (ex: ship cruises or international travel).

Any airline agent will tell you that travel restrictions and fare determination are exceedingly complex and the airlines are doing their part to squeeze every last cent out of your trip. You can thank the federal government for deregulating these pirates of the skies.

[Easy Rider]

simple explanation..... GREED.... not good business ... but it seems to be the new way of doing business..

That pretty much sums it up.

One would think that the solution in a situation like that would be just to not USE the first leg of the round trip ticket.....and use the return portion later.

NOPE. That won't work either. When you don't show up for the first leg, they AUTOMATICALLY cancel your return booking.

REMEMBER this the next time you decide which airline to use for your subsequent travel.
Fight back with your dollars.

We pretty much use SouthWest exclusively these days when possible.
But they aren't perfect either.

[Grandpot]

I remember when I used to fly about two to three flights a week, airlines actually accommodated customers. If you had a death in the family, you were given priority treatment. Usually they required some sort of proof of the death; such as a newspaper obituary. What the heck happened to compassion?

[pitzerwm]

If I ran the bank this way I would have been out of business in 15 minutes (or less)

If you had worked for Wells Fargo, you would probably understand better.

I love the new seating arrangement economy, main cabin, business class, first class. Sounds like economy is being duct taped to the wing.

Friends found this out last week, First class on Air France 737s is no one sitting in the middle seat, same seats as the rest of the plane. Still 3x regular price.

[johnsimion]

Friends found this out last week, First class on Air France 737s is no one sitting in the middle seat, same seats as the rest of the plane. Still 3x regular price.

Either your friend is pulling your leg or somebody needs to notify both SeatGuru and Wikipedia of this -- because according to them, Air France doesn't even operate any 737s.

First class in the Boeing 777s that Air France actually does operate look pretty darned good to me: https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/classeetconfort/premiere_confort_airfrance.htm

[ThreeWheels]

If you had worked for Wells Fargo, you would probably understand better.

I love the new seating arrangement economy, main cabin, business class, first class. Sounds like economy is being duct taped to the wing.

Friends found this out last week, First class on Air France 737s is no one sitting in the middle seat, same seats as the rest of the plane. Still 3x regular price.

I flew economy on Delta airlines just two weeks ago.
I was surprised to find out that I would have had to pay extra for a seat that reclined.
All the parts were there, but the button on the armrest didn't let the seat recline.
Not that the 2" that the seat reclines is much.
EXTRA for a reclining seat ?

[canamjhb]

I talked to my wife tonight and clarified just what happened. Turns out she talked to no one. Just didn't show up for her initial flight. She booked another flight to get her to the funeral. She "assumed" that her return ticket would be good since IT WAS PAID FOR. As I mentioned, we don't fly much. The airline is now enriched by several hundred dollars at the expense of our retirement income. Lesson learned and we will never fly on that airline again...... not that they will miss us.

[RinconRyder]

Lesson learned and we will never fly on that airline again......

Virtually every airline has the same process. You will gain nothing by changing airlines.

[Culpjp]

I remember when I used to fly about two to three flights a week, airlines actually accommodated customers. If you had a death in the family, you were given priority treatment. Usually they required some sort of proof of the death; such as a newspaper obituary. What the heck happened to compassion?
Compassion went out the window, when the shareholders started telling the CEO's that if you don't raise profits every year, we will find someone who can.

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I think that everybody was flying "economy class"; in this scene: :yikes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ersxqFwDkWA

[Easy Rider]

Virtually every airline has the same process. You will gain nothing by changing airlines.

Maybe you will.

First, you should ASK and not assume.

Second, SouthWest still checks one bag and one carry-on FOR NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.
They might be the only domestic carrier left that does that.

[RinconRyder]

First, you should ASK and not assume.


It never hurts to ask of course but wifey confirmed last night she does not know of any scheduled (domestic) airline that does things differently and she has been working the rez desk for over 15 years (with three different airlines).

[canamjhb]

It never hurts to ask of course but wifey confirmed last night she does not know of any scheduled (domestic) airline that does things differently and she has been working the rez desk for over 15 years (with three different airlines).

Thanks for the education. We appreciate getting information from knowledgeable sources. Next time we will do things differently.

[RinconRyder]

Thanks for the education. We appreciate getting information from knowledgeable sources. Next time we will do things differently.

Feel free to give a holler before buying tickets next time and wifey can provide up-front info.

[Fat Baxter]

Write to your local Better Business Bureau. They get a lot of complaints about everything, so maybe they know a way to tickle the system. Make sure you tell them you were traveling due to a death in the family; that may open some doors.

Write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Most businesses will react to a story that gets them bad publicity (but as big and impersonal as the airlines are, maybe not).

Did you charge this to your credit card? If so, call them and tell them you didn't get the service you paid for, and you want your money back. Depending on airline rules (per RinconRyder above), you may not, but at least you can try to get your credit card company to go to bat for you.

If you have the energy and determination, write your Congresscritter. Remind him/her/it gently that Congress created this monster when they deregulated them, and his/her/its action/inaction may be a factor during the next election.

And, stories like this is why I prefer to drive everywhere regardless of time involved.

[Easy Rider]

It never hurts to ask of course ...............

Right answer, wrong question.

The people involved here seemed to NOT know what the policy was at all.......and assumed that the return ticket would still be good......and it wasn't.

I think there are some differences recently. Pretty sure that some airlines do not book "round trip" flights at all anymore and this might be part of the reason. If you book two separate one way tickets, then not using the first one should not affect the second.

[Easy Rider]

Write to your local Better Business Bureau.

I guess you missed the part about ALL the airlines doing it that way ?
And that has been true for a LONG time.

Seems like what you propose is a GROSS over-reaction.
One needs to pick your battles......and this one seems like a no-win situation.

Have you ever actually done all of that over something worth only a couple of hundred dollars ??

[RinconRyder]

Right answer, wrong question.

The people involved here seemed to NOT know what the policy was at all.......and assumed that the return ticket would still be good......and it wasn't.

I think there are some differences recently. Pretty sure that some airlines do not book "round trip" flights at all anymore and this might be part of the reason. If you book two separate one way tickets, then not using the first one should not affect the second.

I reviewed this with the wifey and she said that American Airlines has just issued a new policy regarding these types of events and that regular agents now have increased latitude to refund tickets or make other adjustments. This may also be true at other airlines since they generally have a follow the leader mentality.

As for your "airlines not issuing round trip tickets anymore".....incorrect. They all do. They will never pass up the possibility to get more money out of you once they have you on their website or phone. That is why they generally price round trip tix slightly below two one-way tix - so that you will be enticed to buy the RT.

You are correct though to say a one way ticket status will not affect another one way trip. This happens only on RT's (or flights with multiple legs).

[johnsimion]

I guess you missed the part about ALL the airlines doing it that way ?
And that has been true for a LONG time.

Seems like what you propose is a GROSS over-reaction.
One needs to pick your battles......and this one seems like a no-win situation.

Have you ever actually done all of that over something worth only a couple of hundred dollars ??


ER, I agree that all the airlines do this ... and I agree this is probably a no-win situation. Filing a complaint with the BBB, however, is not a "GROSS" overreaction. It's a normal reaction to want to do something when you've been screwed over by some arcane rule and you're frustrated. And I myself have used the BBB numerous times for a "couple of hundred dollars." Sometimes you file with the BBB just over the principle of the thing, to try to generate some "better business" instead of just bending over and taking it in the shorts. Do it would accomplish anything in this situation? Probably not, but what does it cost to try? Maybe the airline will issue some kind of credit, you don't know. And anyway, if enough people file complaints with the BBB for stuff like this, eventually the airlines might become a little more consumer-friendly.

[UtahPete]

I can honestly say I have not, in the last 10 years, been subject to over-charges, special fees, over-booking, cramped seats, undignified personal searches, delays, sleepovers in airports, or any of the other problems mentioned on this thread.

That's because I decided 10 years ago I was not going anywhere on an airplane ever again. Personal choice, I know, and it does involve some compromises, but I haven't missed the aggravation one bit.

[stillriding]

[QUOTE=Orange Spyder Man;1372976]simple explanation..... GREED.... not good business ... but it seems to be the new way of doing business..[/QUOTEYep...just like my cable TV provider!

[UtahPete]

[QUOTE=Orange Spyder Man;1372976]simple explanation..... GREED.... not good business ... but it seems to be the new way of doing business..[/QUOTEYep...just like my cable TV provider!
Cut the cord. nojoke

[RinconRyder]

I can honestly say I have not, in the last 10 years, been subject to over-charges, special fees, over-booking, cramped seats, undignified personal searches, delays, sleepovers in airports, or any of the other problems mentioned on this thread.

That's because I decided 10 years ago I was not going anywhere on an airplane ever again. Personal choice, I know, and it does involve some compromises, but I haven't missed the aggravation one bit.

As the spouse of an airline employee I have "free" passage anywhere AA flies and almost "free" on other airlines but the last trip I took was in 2002. I feel about airline travel as you do and will do anything to avoid flying.