the growing rebelian agains the EU

[Rogue Hawk]

---Sorry about the title misspellings---

I do pay attention to what goes on in Europe. I don't want to be myopic and ignorant regarding the rest of the planet. Of course, if someone only watched US news the only things they hear about are Stormy and Roseanne (sarcasm).

More and more member countries are becoming rebellions against the EU. They are seeing the EU as a foreign dictatorship leaching away their national sovereignty. This is most pronounced in the East. They know all too well what it's like to live under an oppressive government that has no interest in their welfare. I do see what they mean. Countries are being force to take in refugees they can't absorb. It's also creating a great deal of social unrest. Carbon emission standers are another sore spot.

The EU is acting more and more like a Soviet style dictatorship. One thing I noticed in this story...
"Morawiecki, a former finance minister, said Central European countries would also present a common front in looming negotiations on the EU’s next seven-year budget that starts in 2021." Seven year budget? Is this central planning?

The EU is also bent on punishing any country that defies it. They have threatened England with sanctions. I hope the US will not abandon England in their new "Time of need". They also have made threats to Poland.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/eu-priorities-2020/news/eu-rebels-poland-hungary-show-united-front/

[bhern]

...more specifically, I lived there for a couple of years in the recent past, and I'd say you've got just about half of the story.

No quibble with much of how you are characterizing the EU -- there is definitely a my way or the highway aspect to the cartel. As the kids say these days, "It is what it is."

However, (a) a lot of the protests arising are coming from folks who want to eat their cake and have it, too, and (b) there is a disturbing trend in those places to suppress dissent from *their* POV.

I lived in Hungary, and Viktor Orban, the prime minister there, is happy to spend the EU's money, but doesn't want to play in the sandbox with others as a condition of getting it. (Hungary was a net "receiver" of approximately 5 billion Euros annually from 2011-2015, the easiest data for me to find.) Orban and his party also aren't fans of things like "criticism" and "rule of law." Having bulled his way to an overwhelming (two-thirds) majority in their parliament, despite receiving just under half the vote, he's got the revised constitutional ability to implement his vision and is doing so with a vengeance, likening criticism of his government to criticism of the country, and passing restrictions on media, etc.

(BTW, his rise to power often gets tarred as "gerrymandering," which is untrue. To their credit, Hungary has a very reasonably-defined system and structure for its voting process, and it looks nothing like the nonsense we have in the US with some of our congressional districts that literally defy belief. Orban has simply played the system and has read the populace well.)

But I digress. The point is that you correctly note one side of ideologues without noting the other. And there's really where the rub is -- the reality is that the rather extreme views that the EU takes are not 100% right... but nor are they 100% wrong. Ditto for the emerging populist leaders like Orban and the rest. There have been many benefits to the EU's existence, and those involved in the UK's Brexit temper tantrum are about to find that out. (The "threats" you note to the UK are simply that of the cartel articulating the conditions and costs of continuing down the road they have chosen.) But denying national interests is... not in anyone's national interests, so the real solution lies somewhere in between, in that vast grey area called compromise. Seems to be a lost art, but we can all hope.

I typically stay out of the dangerous turf of the Off-Topic Board, but felt I could add at least a little local color to this specific area of discussion.

Peace and pleasant ryding this weekend to all.

[Chupaca]

I like to keep up with the rest of the world but to do so I have to go to foreign news programs...they still report the new as it is. So watch English news and Latin news but unfortunately those are the only languages I speak but get the Israeli new translated from my wife with some French news.:bowdown: for your link...

[kickinbar]

This has what to do with Spyders???

[BoilerAnimal]

It’s Off Topic, hence, not Spyder related.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This has what to do with Spyders???

Nothing. Just like 90% of all the other threads in the Off Topic Section.

[BajaRon]

...more specifically, I lived there for a couple of years in the recent past, and I'd say you've got just about half of the story.

No quibble with much of how you are characterizing the EU -- there is definitely a my way or the highway aspect to the cartel. As the kids say these days, "It is what it is."

However, (a) a lot of the protests arising are coming from folks who want to eat their cake and have it, too, and (b) there is a disturbing trend in those places to suppress dissent from *their* POV.

I lived in Hungary, and Viktor Orban, the prime minister there, is happy to spend the EU's money, but doesn't want to play in the sandbox with others as a condition of getting it. (Hungary was a net "receiver" of approximately 5 billion Euros annually from 2011-2015, the easiest data for me to find.) Orban and his party also aren't fans of things like "criticism" and "rule of law." Having bulled his way to an overwhelming (two-thirds) majority in their parliament, despite receiving just under half the vote, he's got the revised constitutional ability to implement his vision and is doing so with a vengeance, likening criticism of his government to criticism of the country, and passing restrictions on media, etc.

(BTW, his rise to power often gets tarred as "gerrymandering," which is untrue. To their credit, Hungary has a very reasonably-defined system and structure for its voting process, and it looks nothing like the nonsense we have in the US with some of our congressional districts that literally defy belief. Orban has simply played the system and has read the populace well.)

But I digress. The point is that you correctly note one side of ideologues without noting the other. And there's really where the rub is -- the reality is that the rather extreme views that the EU takes are not 100% right... but nor are they 100% wrong. Ditto for the emerging populist leaders like Orban and the rest. There have been many benefits to the EU's existence, and those involved in the UK's Brexit temper tantrum are about to find that out. (The "threats" you note to the UK are simply that of the cartel articulating the conditions and costs of continuing down the road they have chosen.) But denying national interests is... not in anyone's national interests, so the real solution lies somewhere in between, in that vast grey area called compromise. Seems to be a lost art, but we can all hope.

I typically stay out of the dangerous turf of the Off-Topic Board, but felt I could add at least a little local color to this specific area of discussion.

Peace and pleasant ryding this weekend to all.

I think Brexit was a good move. Time will tell.

Yes, England was making a buck, sure. But it is costing them their country. Pretty much similar to a reverse mortgage. It may be a great ride. But you lose everything at the end.