ECU Flash

[Doug]

Just a little Survey for those that have had the ECU Flashed on their Spyder. Could you provide how long it is that you have being riding with the upgrade and what your results have being, etc.

[Purple Guy]

I've had my flash done a couple months ago on my 2014 RT-Ltd.
The off the line take off is much better, when you push it past 5000 RPM it's Hold On Tight!!!
Thought I haven't documented anything, I do think my gas mileage is a bit better as well.
Not having to wait for the Spyder to go through the start up diagnostics to start it up is a definite bonus!
The only issue I had is being in Edmonton and at a higher elevation my Spyder was running a bit rich.
Steve at Monster Fuel Injection suggested he tweak the flash a bit (at no charge) and it's running perfectly!
Steve has provided nothing but Killer Customer Service!!!

[hypurone]

I have been running mine for 3 months now and have even changed exhaust config AFTER the flash was done and had no probs with the flash being able to adjust for the increased flow. I highly recommend getting it done. Even if you don't ryde like a madman you will reap benefits in every day ryding like: don't have to downshift to get power or pass, roll-ons are excellent and when you wanna "get the show on the road" in a hurry you will be stoked with how well it gets movin'!

[Peter Aawen]

:agree:

I've been running my V-twin motored 2013 RT Ltd for close on 12 months now with an ECU Upgrade done by Jase at ECU Xtreme here in Aus, and it's nothing short of bloody fantastic!! :firstplace: :yes::clap:

THIS is how Spyders should be leaving the factory - better acceleration off the line, better roll on, higher top end, more able to hold in gear as the load increases, & I even get better fuel range than I did pre upgrade (I suspect that's because I don't hafta stir the gearbox anywhere near as much as I did to keep the engine on song & pulling like a train!!) The gear changes are crisper, there are no dead spots or hesitations, it revs freely right out to the (new) red line, it goes like a cut snake & pulls like a train, & some of the engine/nanny parameters have been 'relaxed' just a little so I get to keep on the power in circumstances where before, the nanny would've been cutting things back a little (think F3 engine limits on an RT, if that helps with the concept. ;) ) And it's all done within the 'known safe' parameters of this engine, so I'm not risking hurting anything except maybe my wallet (we do have lotsa speed cameras down here and the latest in laser/lidar speed detection gear too! :p )

Anyhow, if you want to upgrade your Spyder just a little or even a whole lottle, check out the 'proper' ECU Upgrades out there - NOT the el cheapo 'internet flash' jobs that can (will?) be over-written next time your byke is serviced &/or plugged into BUDS; I mean the proper (& yeah, they are more expensive, but there's obvious reasons for that!) ECU Upgrades that aren't just patches or add-ons, so apart from the higher revs & speeds, won't be readily noticed by BUDS, but they WILL allow you to unleash more of the engine power & torque that BRP designed & built into these things & made available to these same engines when used in other machines, only they de-tuned them & damped them down for our Spyders in order to keep 'the lowest common denominator' of ryders from hurting themselves!! :banghead:

Jase copies & stores your original set-up as well as recording what upgrades have been applied, so if for any or whatever reason you ever need to go back to the original set-up or need to get the Upgrade modded or restored, it generally only costs you the postage plus any turn around time....

And all up, I'm STOKED! STILL! :2thumbs: :ohyea: :clap: :firstplace: :yes: :cheers:

[Peteoz]

I’m booked in to see Jase next Monday, Peter. I was going to ride up (about 700 km each way), but it is now forecast for 4 days of rain from Sunday (when I was going to set off). I don’t mind riding in the rain, but riding in rain all the way up and back is not high on my list of priorities these days. I’ll either reschedule, remove the ECM and mail it up, or remove the ECM and drive it up(if I feel like a couple of days away). It looks like only 3 bolts and a couple of connectors on the F3-L, although those connectors look like doozeys to disconnect. Jase thinks he has just the tune for me.......not the same as yours as I don’t really need an “into orbit” setting :D:D

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

I dunno that mine's got an 'into orbit' tune setting Pete, I've seen a couple of comp ATV's with his 'go really fast' tunes, and mine's a whole lot more civilized than they are - it's all just smooooth power delivery from the first twist of the throttle!! Admittedly, IMHO the V-twins are a 'more exciting' engine that is peakier & revs harder than the somewhat 'lethargic' seeming 1330's, which have tons of torque but don't really ever get all that 'exciting' or 'excited' unless you seriously crank that right wrist, & even then it's sorta like a party in a home for Old & Retired Nuns - they are old enough to know how to party, and they may have even seen a wild party once or twice in their lives, but they are far too proper & aware of their standing in the community to ever allow themselves to break out & tarnish that image in the slightest!! But I really do think the ECU Upgrades that Jase does basically make the Spyders do & be what you'd EXPECT them to do & be from the factory for whichever motor you've got!!

Instead of a party for old & retired Nuns, you get a full on Partee!! :shocked: In the case of the 1330's, it might be a full on Party for healthy & recently retired Baby Boomers who are still very aware of their status & standing in the community & who only want to make people THINK they could have fun & be a bit wild every now & then, but it is full on & they DO sorta 'cut loose' a bit, albeit in a little bit of a restrained & polite way; while the V-twins go from a middle aged weekend golf club 'do' to a full on Twenty to Fifty something week on a Party Cruise Ship!! Not quite a 'throw your car keys into the bowl & see what comes out' type thing, but certainly a bungee jumping, tandem parachuting, never tried to drink that, or that much type of event!! :yikes:

But whatever way you want to Party, an ECU Upgrade from Jase at ECU Xtreme will make your party a whole lot more FUN!! :2thumbs:

[Dennis in Lodi]

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

This is a clip of my flashed 2015 RT. It's not really as loud as it sounds. Kind of speaks for itself. But like Pete says it's what we deserve from can-am. Can you imagine buying an 8 cylinder Mustang and have them tune it down to a 6 cylinder? Given the Spyder's weight and the many dynos I have paid for, I suspect I'm pushing about 125 to 130 hp with the flash at 8,600 red line.

Flashed my 2016 F3L. Had a 12 mph gain through the test area speed trap over stock, 104 mph to 116 mph. Just a total hot rod that hauls butt ANYTIME you crack the throttle. 6th gear is a little sleepy. Where I really notice the power is taking 3rd or 4th gear down low in the rpm range and run it up to 7,200 rpm. It just absolutely flies through the rpm's in this area. I have the 8,600 red line and it gets kind of ridiculous from 7,200 to red line. I spend most my time shifting well below 6000 rpm as the bike really scoots around. I can smoke the tire off the line at will and can beak traction snapping the throttle open around 6000 rpm in 1st gear.

I can't explain it but a flash smooths out and improves shifting. Maybe some is break in but there is less clunking?
Dennis

[wmh9680]

I had Monster do mine about a month ago. At first I did not notice any difference til I realized the rear tire was spinning and it got up to 60 real fast. Haven't ridden as much as I would like and I'm having surgery on the 6th of June. So far I am very happy. Mike

[RudyB]

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

This is a clip of my flashed 2015 RT. It's not really as loud as it sounds. Kind of speaks for itself. But like Pete says it's what we deserve from can-am. Can you imagine buying an 8 cylinder Mustang and have them tune it down to a 6 cylinder? Given the Spyder's weight and the many dynos I have paid for, I suspect I'm pushing about 125 to 130 hp with the flash at 8,600 red line.

Flashed my 2016 F3L. Had a 12 mph gain through the test area speed trap over stock, 104 mph to 116 mph. Just a total hot rod that hauls butt ANYTIME you crack the throttle. 6th gear is a little sleepy. Where I really notice the power is taking 3rd or 4th gear down low in the rpm range and run it up to 7,200 rpm. It just absolutely flies through the rpm's in this area. I have the 8,600 red line and it gets kind of ridiculous from 7,200 to red line. I spend most my time shifting well below 6000 rpm as the bike really scoots around. I can smoke the tire off the line at will and can beak traction snapping the throttle open around 6000 rpm in 1st gear.

I can't explain it but a flash smooths out and improves shifting. Maybe some is break in but there is less clunking?
Denniswhere do I get this flash done

[hypurone]

where do I get this flash done You either ship your ECU to Monster in Canada or one of his partners in the US.

Wick-It Performance
1725D N Hearne Ave
Shreveport, LA 71107

I can't remember the name of the other place in NC but do a search on the forum and it should be posted by myself or Dennis somewhere....

Get the Flash Form from Monster's website and fill it out and include with your ECM.

It takes some time to actually apply the flash so it isn't something you can ryde in and get done on the spot I wouldn't imagine....

[stmike 1800]

Who in Canada ???

[hypurone]

Who in Canada ???

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

[fatenhappy]

Who in Canada ???

Forget the 'who in Canada' part of the question and just ask who does the best ECU remap … ANYWHERE ?

(I packed mine up (from Australia) and sent it over to Steve at Monster … and all back and in, in under 3 weeks with more than suitable amounts of their 'pixie dust' applied)

Monster ECU …. Monster ECU …. Monster ECU …. Monster ECU …. Monster ECU …. Monster ECU ….

No more dead spots, goes like stink and better fuel economy to-boot… Yehaa!

[Peter Aawen]

But Fat'n, you coulda had yours done by Jase at ECU Xtreme just down the road on the Gold Coast..... woulda been back a helluva lot quicker, & a whole lot easier to get any upgrades or fine -tuning done!! (And arguably a whooole lot better too! ;) ) :thumbup:

[fatenhappy]

But Fat'n, you coulda had yours done by Jase at ECU Xtreme just down the road on the Gold Coast..... woulda been back a helluva lot quicker, & a whole lot easier to get any upgrades or fine -tuning done!! (And arguably a whooole lot better too! ;) ) :thumbup:

Mate that's what I was originally aiming and planning for …. that is until I found out he is over $200 AUD more expensive than everything combined including freight to and from Canada to Monster return for his 'service'

Then add atop that … shipping both ways up and back from the Coast and that's bloody ridiculous … Pretty much all up better than about $250 AUD CHEAPER for me to send it return INTERNATIONALLY to Canada ...so where's the sense in that?

I don't need or want to support the local bloke when he's bending me (us) all over a barrel just because he can …

I cannot get over the greed factor that's come and coming over our country top to bottom in the last 10 or 15 years just because people recon they can … Its like everyone wants and has to be a millionaire yesterday and BTW all before they are 40 years of age or so. I expect to pay for a quality job but that's just plain greed and BS

Mate as for better … dunno … we would have to compare apples with apples but I am very, very impressed with what I received back from Monster … Goes like stink (if I want it too) great fuel economy, no more dead spots … and still not been quite game enough to explore the 'nether regions' of giving it a gutt full!

[Peteoz]

I don't need or want to support the local bloke when he's bending me (us) all over a barrel just because he can …


That’s an interesting perspective, Faten. Having recently dealt with Jason, I would have to say that ripping us off “because he can” is not part of his makeup. I assume you are privy to exactly what goes into Jason’s costs and Monster’s costs for setting up their particular aftermarket tune, otherwise your claims would be unjustified (and a bit naughty:shocked:).

I don’t know about others who have used Jason’s services, but I most certainly do not feel that I have, in any way, shape or form, been bent over a barrel, so please don’t include me in the “(us) all” that you have used in your sentence above.

Pete

[Mike,P]

I’ve had the Monster Fuel Injection flash done and after a few hundred miles I’d say it was money well spent.. My only hesitation to have this done was to have the stage 2 update in place because I didn’t want to ship back and forth and I also have been working on a cold air intake..
Glad I waited for the stage 2 and this thing rips!!!
It was a pleasure to work with Steve and like many have said before:: This is how they should run to begin with!!
Best upgrade / Bang for buck of anything so far..
BTW I have a 2015 F3s SM6

[wingit3611]

​BUMP

[amcvay1979]

I don't see a stage 2 listed on Monster's site. Where do you find that?

[Mike,P]

I don't see a stage 2 listed on Monster's site. Where do you find that?
You have to talk to Steve / call or email.. Great people to deal with 😎
I’m one of the testers..

[Dennis in Lodi]

You have to talk to Steve / call or email.. Great people to deal with 😎
I’m one of the testers..
I believe stage two is a complete kit. Air intake kit, pipe configuration and a flash. There was also a stage 3 TURBO kit just about out?? Basically it just transforms parts from the See-Doo Turbo motors to fit our motor.
I just am thrilled at the total hot rod my F3L is after the basic flash. Why anyone wouldn't want 25% more performance across the entire rpm rang for the price yet spend the same money on a cat delete that robs power is beyond me? The basic flash delivers this on a totally stock bike, no other mods required.
Dennis

[Mike,P]

[QUOTE=Dennis in Lodi;1394438]I believe stage two is a complete kit. Air intake kit, pipe configuration and a flash. There was also a stage 3 TURBO kit just about out?? Basically it just transforms parts from the See-Doo Turbo motors to fit our motor.
I just am thrilled at the total hot rod my F3L is after the basic flash. Why anyone wouldn't want 25% more performance across the entire rpm rang for the price yet spend the same money on a cat delete that robs power is beyond me? The basic flash delivers this on a totally stock bike, no other mods required.
Dennis[/QUOTE

I have the complete Stage 2 flash and also added my cold air intake to bring in cooler air from outside of the body work..
I’m very happy with the results and at this stage,, what I really need is a stickier rear tire!!!

[hypurone]

I believe stage two is a complete kit. Air intake kit, pipe configuration and a flash. There was also a stage 3 TURBO kit just about out?? Basically it just transforms parts from the See-Doo Turbo motors to fit our motor.
I just am thrilled at the total hot rod my F3L is after the basic flash. Why anyone wouldn't want 25% more performance across the entire rpm rang for the price yet spend the same money on a cat delete that robs power is beyond me? The basic flash delivers this on a totally stock bike, no other mods required.
Dennis

And what folks forget to take into consideration when they start doing mods that actually increase the HP/Torque levels above stock is, the rest of the machine isn't built for it! Remember, the Stage 1 flash (basic if you want to call it that) is simply unlocking what is already there and currently being limited by BRP's tuning!

You think there are prominent front sprocket/clutch/transmission issues now!? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HP!! And I have gone down the rabbit hole many times in my "modding" career. Most recently with my 2010 Camaro when I supercharged it etc.... But in the Spyder arena where the aftermarket support is completely missing in terms of the items I mentioned, it will be a serious gamble....

I'm with Dennis on this one and will continue to enjoy the Stage 1 flash (can't really call it basic now can we Dennis? ;)) on mine! Heck, even the Stage 1 flash has one downside! My rear tire life has gone down the tubes!! :roflblack:

[Mike,P]

And what folks forget to take into consideration when they start doing mods that actually increase the HP/Torque levels above stock is, the rest of the machine isn't built for it! Remember, the Stage 1 flash (basic if you want to call it that) is simply unlocking what is already there and currently being limited by BRP's tuning!

You think there are prominent front sprocket/clutch/transmission issues now!? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE HP!! And I have gone down the rabbit hole many times in my "modding" career. Most recently with my 2010 Camaro when I supercharged it etc.... But in the Spyder arena where the aftermarket support is completely missing in terms of the items I mentioned, it will be a serious gamble....

I'm with Dennis on this one and will continue to enjoy the Stage 1 flash (can't really call it basic now can we Dennis? ;)) on mine! Heck, even the Stage 1 flash has one downside! My rear tire life has gone down the tubes!! :roflblack:

I just wanted to post my thoughts on what I thought was a great return on my $$$..
The stage 2 upgrade is free for those who paid for the Stage 1 and gives more wiggle room for adding more air to the equation and a few more tweaks..
I’m totally good with everyone being satisfied with what they have because happy is a great place to be 😎
However,, anyone that’s been doing this for a long time like I have knows the reality of the situation and that is: You can be totally satisfied with what you have until you get passed by someone with more..
As far as driveline problems going forward,, I doubt that is a concern but time will tell.
If there is a Turbo upgrade,, I will sign up for that as well..

[KX5062]

Just remember, don't blame BRP for detuning or denutting or whatever these bikes. I'm sure they don't want to, they have to do it. They are mandated by bureaucrats from the EU, EPA, CARB, etc to make these engines smog compliant regardless of what it does otherwise.

[treva]

Mate that's what I was originally aiming and planning for …. that is until I found out he is over $200 AUD more expensive than everything combined including freight to and from Canada to Monster return for his 'service'

Then add atop that … shipping both ways up and back from the Coast and that's bloody ridiculous … Pretty much all up better than about $250 AUD CHEAPER for me to send it return INTERNATIONALLY to Canada ...so where's the sense in that?

I don't need or want to support the local bloke when he's bending me (us) all over a barrel just because he can …

I cannot get over the greed factor that's come and coming over our country top to bottom in the last 10 or 15 years just because people recon they can … Its like everyone wants and has to be a millionaire yesterday and BTW all before they are 40 years of age or so. I expect to pay for a quality job but that's just plain greed and BS

Mate as for better … dunno … we would have to compare apples with apples but I am very, very impressed with what I received back from Monster … Goes like stink (if I want it too) great fuel economy, no more dead spots … and still not been quite game enough to explore the 'nether regions' of giving it a gutt full!


I have to agree with you on this mate. I also won't support the greedy local guy or any other business charging over the top, & the number of company's that do charge fairly is almost non existent. Almost all of Australian businesses are " ADDICTED TO THE MYTH OF PERPETUAL GROWTH AND ENDLESS PROFIT".

[Sweetwater]

I see mention of cold air intakes.... I’ve been looking for one for my f3s. Any ideas of where to buy, or build my own?

[Mike,P]

I see mention of cold air intakes.... I’ve been looking for one for my f3s. Any ideas of where to buy, or build my own?
RE COLD AIR INTAKE::
I have the Stage 2 mapping from Monster Fuel Injection ..
I made mine and plan on an updated version over winter.. I wanted to make sure it wouldn’t throw any codes and in almost 400 mi in various conditions it hasn’t..
Nothing currently available by a vendor..

[Mike,P]

I have the Stage 2 mapping from Monster Fuel Injection ..
I made mine and plan on an updated version over winter.. I wanted to make sure it wouldn’t throw any codes and in almost 400 mi in various conditions it hasn’t..
Nothing currently available by a vendor..

A couple of pics of what I did are on the Spyderlovers F3 Facebook page..
Scroll down till you find it..
I think I posted it on Friday..

[SNOOPY]

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/


The flash form on this link doesn’t work, unless it just doesn’t load from a mobile device?

Who does this in the US for Monster? I’m in Va.


edit: I see the place in Louisiana, I take it that’s the only US place?

[Devious56]

The flash form on this link doesn’t work, unless it just doesn’t load from a mobile device?

Who does this in the US for Monster? I’m in Va.


edit: I see the place in Louisiana, I take it that’s the only US place?


Wick It Performance in Louisiana did mine, give them a call. Very easy to talk to and my Spyder was only down about a week due to shipping.

[trikermutha]

I am waiting for power commander to release there tuner before I do anything with the ECM.

[Spydel]

They are in the process of relocating. Forms will be updated after relocation is completed. Probably in November.

[SNOOPY]

Wick It Performance in Louisiana did mine, give them a call. Very easy to talk to and my Spyder was only down about a week due to shipping.


Wow, that’s quick. Thanks

[hypurone]

The flash form on this link doesn’t work, unless it just doesn’t load from a mobile device?

Who does this in the US for Monster? I’m in Va.


edit: I see the place in Louisiana, I take it that’s the only US place?


Wick It Performance in Louisiana did mine, give them a call. Very easy to talk to and my Spyder was only down about a week due to shipping.

What he said! And there is another in North Carolina. I don't have that info on=hand tho. but You could get it from a PM to Steve (Spyd_Piper)...

[SNOOPY]

Thanks :thumbup:

[Wildrice]

I had 2015 F3's ecu flash in Canada---runs strong above 4000 to 8100, but I lost a little from a dead stop. I can full throttle from a dead stop without wheel spin, if i get it up to 4000 it can spin tire.

The 2 sources use different parameters . Do anyone know of a Stateside location the uses the Australia parameters in their ref-lash . I heard Canada's is just timing increase.
Darrell

[Mike,P]

I had 2015 F3's ecu flash in Canada---runs strong above 4000 to 8100, but I lost a little from a dead stop. I can full throttle from a dead stop without wheel spin, if i get it up to 4000 it can spin tire.

The 2 sources use different parameters . Do anyone know of a Stateside location the uses the Australia parameters in their ref-lash . I heard Canada's is just timing increase.
Darrell

I have the stage 2 flash with a cold air intake and my bike will smoke the tire through 3rd gear / Seriously!! I have a SM6..
Does your bike have the big sprocket or the smaller one??

[Fatcycledaddy]

So what is the difference between the stage one and stage two flash?

[hypurone]

So what is the difference between the stage one and stage two flash? In the response I received from Steve about this when I asked him for clarification (it was originally going to be the flash for updated cams + airbox, Supposedly he knew someone that was going to make them), this was his response:

"It's on the stock engine with an airbox mod." :dontknow:

[Firefly]

Dynojet (the makers of the Power Commander) will soon release their PowerVision CX for the Can-Am Spyder. This will allow you to back up your ECU, flash it with new data for better performance, MPG, etc.

Unlike the various places that do flashes, Dynojet will actually show results from their system using a dyno test. I've yet to see anyone else do this.

The system will run around $400 and while it doesn't have to be plugged in while riding, it is 'linked' to your Spyder --- in other words you can't simply use it to reprogram a dozen spyders….
To me, this is a far better idea than sending in your ECU to be flashed. You'll be able to set it 'back to factory' within minutes. You will also be able to clear codes using their interface.

They currently make these for HD, Indian and many BRP off-road products.

I would expect this to be a very high quality product, which is what they are known for.

Hope to have one in my hands soon....

http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/

[trikermutha]

Dynojet (the makers of the Power Commander) will soon release their PowerVision CX for the Can-Am Spyder. This will allow you to back up your ECU, flash it with new data for better performance, MPG, etc.

Unlike the various places that do flashes, Dynojet will actually show results from their system using a dyno test. I've yet to see anyone else do this.

The system will run around $400 and while it doesn't have to be plugged in while riding, it is 'linked' to your Spyder --- in other words you can't simply use it to reprogram a dozen spyders….
To me, this is a far better idea than sending in your ECU to be flashed. You'll be able to set it 'back to factory' within minutes. You will also be able to clear codes using their interface.

They currently make these for HD, Indian and many BRP off-road products.

I would expect this to be a very high quality product, which is what they are known for.

Hope to have one in my hands soon....

http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/

When is it being released?

[SNOOPY]

Dynojet (the makers of the Power Commander) will soon release their PowerVision CX for the Can-Am Spyder. This will allow you to back up your ECU, flash it with new data for better performance, MPG, etc.

Unlike the various places that do flashes, Dynojet will actually show results from their system using a dyno test. I've yet to see anyone else do this.

The system will run around $400 and while it doesn't have to be plugged in while riding, it is 'linked' to your Spyder --- in other words you can't simply use it to reprogram a dozen spyders….
To me, this is a far better idea than sending in your ECU to be flashed. You'll be able to set it 'back to factory' within minutes. You will also be able to clear codes using their interface.

They currently make these for HD, Indian and many BRP off-road products.

I would expect this to be a very high quality product, which is what they are known for.

Hope to have one in my hands soon....

http://www.dynojet.com/PowerVision/


As with the devices Dynojet makes for cars and trucks, the manufacturers can tell if you flashed an ECU and flashed it back.

Just a note for those worried about their warranty.

.

[Benmannino]

​BUMP
I live in Louisville also, have you had it done? By who? Where do you get your service done?
thanks
Ben

[wingit3611]

[Just got mine a month ago. Have a VFC III on my Victory Vision & a variable timing disk, so I was wondering how the 2013 RT L would do. Looks like a flash requires the use of 91 octane. I want to stay with 87. Sure it could do a few degrees and still burn 87. Rick in PRP


QUOTE=Benmannino;1400028]I live in Louisville also, have you had it done? By who? Where do you get your service done?
thanks
Ben[/QUOTE]

[Dennis in Lodi]

Here goes the octane controversy, I have the monster flash. I have TESTED all fuels available with my testing of the original flashes with monster fuel. I disagree with monster fuel and most forum members. MY 30 years of dyno results on performance cycles and my spyder have proven to me that the best performance fuel is FRESH 87 octane. Consistently on a base line of 100 hp there is proven dyno hp increase of 4 hp with 87 octane vs. higher octane fuels. On my race bikes at the track that is real power i can feel in critical areas of the race track.
I have used 87 octane for 12,000 miles on my current flashed F3L.
Dennis


[Just got mine a month ago. Have a VFC III on my Victory Vision & a variable timing disk, so I was wondering how the 2013 RT L would do. Looks like a flash requires the use of 91 octane. I want to stay with 87. Sure it could do a few degrees and still burn 87. Rick in PRP


QUOTE=Benmannino;1400028]I live in Louisville also, have you had it done? By who? Where do you get your service done?
thanks
Ben[/QUOTE]

[jcthorne]

Here goes the octane controversy, I have the monster flash. I have TESTED all fuels available with my testing of the original flashes with monster fuel. I disagree with monster fuel and most forum members. MY 30 years of dyno results on performance cycles and my spyder have proven to me that the best performance fuel is FRESH 87 octane. Consistently on a base line of 100 hp there is proven dyno hp increase of 4 hp with 87 octane vs. higher octane fuels. On my race bikes at the track that is real power i can feel in critical areas of the race track.
I have used 87 octane for 12,000 miles on my current flashed F3L.
Dennis

[/QUOTE]


Sorry to disagree but I have had the unfortunate opportunity to fuel my F3 with 87 from time to time out of necessity and can immediately feel the sluggishness and loss of power as the engine pulls timing. When returning to 93 octane, its not as immediate but takes a few miles to retune again for the better spark curve. Its repeatable and quite noticeable.

[wingit3611]

Sounds like it has a knock sensor in the engine and the flash is adjusting the timing based on when it hear the knock. I guess you never hear these engines ping. I read some place the 2013 has 12 to 1 compression.. Now I know why no pining. Thanks



Sorry to disagree but I have had the unfortunate opportunity to fuel my F3 with 87 from time to time out of necessity and can immediately feel the sluggishness and loss of power as the engine pulls timing. When returning to 93 octane, its not as immediate but takes a few miles to retune again for the better spark curve. Its repeatable and quite noticeable.[/QUOTE]

[LeftCoast]

I’m just going to say this is so sad even before I ask it.

What is an ECU, where is it and are there instructions anywhere on how to remove it or send it in.

Flame away. :bowdown:

[Dennis in Lodi]

Let's pause and assume we are both correct. When doing my DYNO testing for a specific bike, I only use gas from one of two SPECIFIC BUSY GAS STATIONS. Early in my career it was always BP and usually 93 octane for testing. Then in the last years of bike testing a SUPER GAS STATION came to town and they claim to have TOP TIER FUEL?? I was Down in Mississippi near a refinery with a Liter sport bike. I filled up with 87 octane and OMG the bike was doing wheelies everywhere. Trying to understand what just happened, a local told me it's just the difference of TOP TIER FUEL. So that is what led me to try DYNO testing 87 octane TOP TIER FUEL.
So here is how we can both be correct in our experience. I have a drawer full of DYNO charts that clearly show a performance gain with 87 octane, but always based on one specific BUSY station with fresh top tier fuel. MY Spyder riding 87 octane fuel is 90% limited to these specific gas stations as they are everywhere for me. Also, this could be a big one. If I'm touring I seldom go above 5,000 rpm for shifting and may not notice power loss from a low quality or stale gas?? Usually I buy Higher octane when in doubt.
With this in mind, and believing we are both speaking from experience, I would detect the same results as you describe if I had your fueling option in my tank and you would experience the same if you had mine. MY bike dyno charts do not show any hp improvement with 87 octane until way above the rpm range of our Spyders.
So to conclude, I do not have a DYNO history for my Spyder. I am using my butt DYNO and speed trap testing to confirm that with FRESH TOP TIER FUEL it is a wash for octane testing.
Thanks for a gentleman's discussion, this is how our country should behave if we disagree.
Dennis


Sorry to disagree but I have had the unfortunate opportunity to fuel my F3 with 87 from time to time out of necessity and can immediately feel the sluggishness and loss of power as the engine pulls timing. When returning to 93 octane, its not as immediate but takes a few miles to retune again for the better spark curve. Its repeatable and quite noticeable.[/QUOTE]

[El Dorado]

Just discovered the DYNOJET is available for my RTS:
https://cart.dynojet.com/c-3197-2015.aspx

[trikermutha]

Just discovered the DYNO
JET is available for my RTS: https://cart.dynojet.com/c-3197-2015.aspx

wait for the programmer to come out

[fatenhappy]

Just a little Survey for those that have had the ECU Flashed on their Spyder. Could you provide how long it is that you have being riding with the upgrade and what your results have being, etc.

Had the remapping done by Monster back in March 2018 for my 2017-F3T …

The thing now pulls like a train with absolutely no dead spots what so ever … The difference is amazing … Best value for $$$ for improved torque and HP (as recorded by my seat of the pants tacho and eyes being forced backwards into their sockets) I've made in a long, long time ..

[hypurone]

I’m just going to say this is so sad even before I ask it.

What is an ECU, where is it and are there instructions anywhere on how to remove it or send it in.

Flame away. :bowdown:


In a nutshell, the ECU or ECM (Engine Control Unit / Engine Control Module) is what controls the engine operating parameters such as ignition timing and Air Fuel Ratios per given load/throttle position/engine temp etc etc. It is located on the left side of the byke behind the upper plastic. There are videos and some written instructions out there for removal.... It is basically 3 bolts and 2 connectors (though the connectors can be a bit tricky) once you have the plastics off... I'd say ryde it up here and I'll walk you thru it but that sounds like a lot of work to just have to repeat it once you get back home! 8-(

[308gunner]

I had my F-3 ecu re-mapped stage one a month ago.. along with a RLS cat bypass in which I had Ricky add two additional baffles....its a whole different spyder....im considering uprading to stage II in the spring...I went to the dragstrip a 1/8 track and measured the performance before and after the remap... the timing differences were really noticiable..real gains...so its worth the money.

[Peteoz]

I had my F-3 ecu re-mapped stage one a month ago.. along with a RLS cat bypass in which I had Ricky add two additional baffles....its a whole different spyder....im considering uprading to stage II in the spring...I went to the dragstrip a 1/8 track and measured the performance before and after the remap... the timing differences were really noticiable..real gains...so its worth the money.

I wasn’t so interested in that side, gunner, but I can understand those who are:2thumbs:. The biggest plus for me was no more lag in 2nd/3rd gear, smooooooooth acceleration and a generally crisper throttle response. I’m a very happy camper with my stage 2.:thumbup:

Pete

[Micha.]

Did anyone try MaptunerX? For MaptunerX, 2 maps will be available for 2-cylinder vehicles with 2013 and 3-cylinder models. Stage 1 without modification on the vehicle, Stage 2 with sports air filter and exhaust. Who has the sports mode gets the tuning recorded only in this area. So then would be Eco = reduced power, normal = standard power, sport = increased power. My question is, if someone has the tuning play and how the results are, like also by PN. I suspect that it is in the tuning range of Monster injection moves.

[308gunner]

I wasn’t so interested in that side, gunner, but I can understand those who are:2thumbs:. The biggest plus for me was no more lag in 2nd/3rd gear, smooooooooth acceleration and a generally crisper throttle response. I’m a very happy camper with my stage 2.:thumbup:

Pete

Drag racing may not be your thing...but....I actually did a real life timing run pre tune and post tune..the clock don't lie so the tune is legit not hearsay..real data!!..this was needed to show people the tune is real...and worth paying for..the 1/8 the pre run was 8.829 sec..at 74 mph..post tune...1/8 track my time is 8.497 sec at 85 mph!!..and I wasn't trying...I know it will do 8.450 or less.. this here is what people need to see..this is stage I ...I can imagine stage II.

[Revalden]

But Fat'n, you coulda had yours done by Jase at ECU Xtreme just down the road on the Gold Coast..... woulda been back a helluva lot quicker, & a whole lot easier to get any upgrades or fine -tuning done!! (And arguably a whooole lot better too! ;) ) :thumbup:

what's the web address for ECU xtreme?

[Peter Aawen]

what's the web address for ECU xtreme?

Email Jase at rotaxracing@gmail.com - and if the cost surprises you a little, please ask him to explain why. IMHO, it's more'n worth every cent! :thumbup:

[308gunner]

Today, I sent in the ECU and airbox lid in to be upgraded to a re-map stage II. I already have the race data for stock and Stage I. now for the next step...

[hypurone]

Today, I sent in the ECU and airbox lid in to be upgraded to a re-map stage II. I already have the race data for stock and Stage I. now for the next step... Cool! Dennis is also in the process of testing the Stage II Flash and looking forward to both your data sets....

[Geep]

Just installed my Monster ECU, since its snowing talk to me in May ☹️☹️

[Peteoz]

Today, I sent in the ECU and airbox lid in to be upgraded to a re-map stage II. I already have the race data for stock and Stage I. now for the next step...

......and that’s where I believe the ECU upgrades contain so much value, gunner. They give YOU better measurable times on the drag strip, and ME, crisper, balanced performance when touring. The stage 2 upgrade will certainly be done on any new Spyder I buy.:thumbup:

Pete

[SNOOPY]

Today, I sent in the ECU and airbox lid in to be upgraded to a re-map stage II. I already have the race data for stock and Stage I. now for the next step...


Why the air box lid ?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Why the air box lid ?

:agree: …. I'd love to see a Pic of what they did …. The Air box that encloses the filter has a long plastic intake that opens above the radiator air scoop. I removed that plastic intake for others reasons, but when I did I could see how small the air slots were. I'm very old school in my feelings about opening any Air Intake to allow easier breathing ( remember the Shaker hoods on cars )…. I also removed the rubber elbow which left a 3 inch Hole in the Air Box.… I connected a 3 in. metal tube that goes thru the left side panel ( see my albums for a pic ) ….. Better breathing was the goal, and I achieved that, however if the ECU isn't re-mapped not much change can occur because the Oem ECU in it's design will adjust to any breathing improvements you make. Either to the Intake Air or the Exhaust …… Mike :thumbup:

[308gunner]

Nice...did you get stage I or stage II?

[308gunner]

Just installed my Monster ECU, since its snowing talk to me in May ☹️☹️

Nice...did get stage I or stage II?

[SNOOPY]

:agree: …. I'd love to see a Pic of what they did …. The Air box that encloses the filter has a long plastic intake that opens above the radiator air scoop. I removed that plastic intake for others reasons, but when I did I could see how small the air slots were. I'm very old school in my feelings about opening any Air Intake to allow easier breathing ( remember the Shaker hoods on cars )…. I also removed the rubber elbow which left a 3 inch Hole in the Air Box.… I connected a 3 in. metal tube that goes thru the left side panel ( see my albums for a pic ) ….. Better breathing was the goal, and I achieved that, however if the ECU isn't re-mapped not much change can occur because the Oem ECU in it's design will adjust to any breathing improvements you make. Either to the Intake Air or the Exhaust …… Mike :thumbup:


I removed my whole factory air intake/cleaner years ago. I would assume when I have a remap I would simply tell them that and they can put it in their equation.


Would like to know what they are doing to the factory cover though.

.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I removed my whole factory air intake/cleaner years ago. I would assume when I have a remap I would simply tell them that and they can put it in their equation.


Would like to know what they are doing to the factory cover though.

.

:agree: and would like to see their set-up …...as I said above I just modified the OEM hole left by removing the factory ELBOE …. the 3in connecting pipe I used is cut in half so my FRUNK just slides on and off with no problem...… I did mine back in the winter of 2014 ….. Mike :thumbup:

[hypurone]

I removed my whole factory air intake/cleaner years ago. I would assume when I have a remap I would simply tell them that and they can put it in their equation.


Would like to know what they are doing to the factory cover though.

.

I was hoping Dennis would see this and post the pic he sent me of his that he just got back from Monster. Here it is. Nothing to write home about for sure. With the size and placement of the holes I see only hotter engine bay air and questionable flow gains, but time and testing will tell.... Dennis is weather locked at the moment but is contemplating a "trip" to warmer weather to do his testing. 308gunner has received his as well as is testing I believe....
168554168555

[Dennis in Lodi]

I was hoping Dennis would see this and post the pic he sent me of his that he just got back from Monster. Here it is. Nothing to write home about for sure. With the size and placement of the holes I see only hotter engine bay air and questionable flow gains, but time and testing will tell.... Dennis is weather locked at the moment but is contemplating a "trip" to warmer weather to do his testing. 308gunner has received his as well as is testing I believe....
168554168555

The holes are roughly 1 3/8 ". When my lid is on I'm barely able to insert my fingers in the holes as the air filter top blocks 70% of the hole openings. Hard to see in the assembled pic. I have been showed some dyno runs. Stock, vs. stage one, vs. stage two. Off idle to red line, Stage one has about 20% gain over stock. Stage two vs. stage one has the two hp graphs separating around 4,500 rpm and only modestly over the stage one to red line. All dynos seem to read different. There is some big gains in torque but neither Hyperone or I can figure out if the biggest torque gain for stage two is the highest torque reading. It's a really piss poor e-mail pic of the test. Here is what I see on this Dyno. Stock Daytona around 98 hp at the real wheel? Stage One around 118 hp and Stage two around 122 hp.
I was asked not to show the Dyno test as they will be up on the Monster fuel site soon.
Maybe Hyperone has had a chance to better dissect the torque charts but it shows some pretty serious torque gains happening.
Dennis

[hypurone]

Maybe Hyperone has had a chance to better dissect the torque charts but it shows some pretty serious torque gains happening.
Dennis

Sorry Dennis, no. The more I look at it the more my eyes hurt. That thing is an ugly mess!

[Lew L]

ECU pulled ( EZ) and boxed, ready for shipment. I'm doing a stage 1 flash with a slight RPM increase and the instant start feature.

Any advice is appriciated.
Lew L

[SNOOPY]

Instant start?

Do you mean you don’t have to wait for the message?

[Lew L]

Yes that is correct if I understand what instant start means. I'm calling them tomorrow to let them know the ECU is on its way.
It's an option on the website where you fill out the list of options.

Lew L

[308gunner]

Yes that is correct if I understand what instant start means. I'm calling them tomorrow to let them know the ECU is on its way.
It's an option on the website where you fill out the list of options.

Lew L

You are correct. you can start it without hitting the eco mode button...instant start.

[Dennis in Lodi]

Instant start?

Do you mean you don’t have to wait for the message?

Turn the key and start the bike. There is still a slight delay before you see the screen but it starts right away.
BTW, more current Spyders allow you to turn the key and immediately press the ECO button which allows an instant start before the screen powers up. Give it a try to see if you already have this feature? My 2016 F3L allowed me to do that before the flash.
Dennis

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I was hoping Dennis would see this and post the pic he sent me of his that he just got back from Monster. Here it is. Nothing to write home about for sure. With the size and placement of the holes I see only hotter engine bay air and questionable flow gains, but time and testing will tell.... Dennis is weather locked at the moment but is contemplating a "trip" to warmer weather to do his testing. 308gunner has received his as well as is testing I believe....
168554168555

:agree: with your assessment of what is going to occur with the Hot Air …. IMHO, if you just dis-connected the long plastic air intake and left the Elboe on you would be much better off ….. the incoming Air would be a lot cooler …………. Of course I think mine is better because it's more free flowing and much , much cooler being the air is coming from outside the body …… I'm planning on doing the flash this winter and will send pics of mine to Monster for the flash ……….. Mike :thumbup:

[SNOOPY]

Turn the key and start the bike. There is still a slight delay before you see the screen but it starts right away.
BTW, more current Spyders allow you to turn the key and immediately press the ECO button which allows an instant start before the screen powers up. Give it a try to see if you already have this feature? My 2016 F3L allowed me to do that before the flash.
Dennis

I have a 2013 STS, no eco button.

And the form on their site still shows an error for me, can you guys see the form on your mobile device (iPad) or are you using a PC?

[jcthorne]

Mode button in your case (same button).

[_..stiffler..]

does anyone have the flash with the new 2018 F3 Limited Gauge??

if I bring my spyder in for a gauge update with it erase my ecu flash? anyone know anything about this?

thanks

Stiff

[Fatcycledaddy]

If this has been asked and answered already I apologize for asking again.

What is the turn around time on getting a flash done?

[308gunner]

If this has been asked and answered already I apologize for asking again.

What is the turn around time on getting a flash done?

one week max..the time depends on how you want to ship it...I did mine fed-ex overnight both ways.

[308gunner]

[QUOTE=_..stiffler..;1414429]does anyone have the flash with the new 2018 F3 Limited Gauge??

if I bring my spyder in for a gauge update with it erase my ecu flash? anyone know anything about this?

thanks

Stiff

it shouldn`t...but... thats a good question...call wick-it performance..to confirm it.

[Jetfixer]

If this has been asked and answered already I apologize for asking again.

What is the turn around time on getting a flash done?

Mine arrives at Wick-It Performance tomorrow. They said 24 hour turn-around time. If you pre-pay, their site charges USPS return postage. I sent mine Fedex. It's supposed to be delivered tomorrow by 10:30 am. I'm hoping they can flash it and get it out in the mail same day. If so, I could have it back by the weekend.

[308gunner]

Mine arrives at Wick-It Performance tomorrow. They said 24 hour turn-around time. If you pre-pay, their site charges USPS return postage. I sent mine Fedex. It's supposed to be delivered tomorrow by 10:30 am. I'm hoping they can flash it and get it out in the mail same day. If so, I could have it back by the weekend.

Please post a review when you get it back..whether you purchased the stage I or II, your spyder is going to come alive...I got the stage II ..you`re going to love it!!!

[308gunner]

ECU RE-MAPP RACING NEWS:
I have exciting news this thursday I will be Testing/Racing the F-3 Stage II Sport at the 1/8th mile dragstrip....BUT..... here`s the twist ..I will be racing a spyder F-3 sport that ALSO has a stage II remap done to it...a true timed drag race in which BOTH spyders have true performance upgrades..as far as I know, this has not happened before. this is going to be good...Stay Tuned!!!!

[EricP]

ECU RE-MAPP RACING NEWS:
I have exciting news this thursday I will be Testing/Racing the F-3 Stage II Sport at the 1/8th mile dragstrip....BUT..... here`s the twist ..I will be racing a spyder F-3 sport that ALSO has a stage II remap done to it...a true timed drag race in which BOTH spyders have true performance upgrades..as far as I know, this has not happened before. this is going to be good...Stay Tuned!!!!

Subscribed to thread...:popcorn:
Please keep us posted, sir.

[smokster]

Well.....how was the race????

[SmoovOpRatoR]

Hey folks, do any of these ECU flashes allow traction control to be turned off or at least turned down a bit? I seem to recall that some of the 2017 models had the ability to turn traction control off and you could do donuts etc (Daytona Model perhaps?). I currently have a 2015 F3-S that I would like to flash.

[Spyd_Piper]

I was hoping Dennis would see this and post the pic he sent me of his that he just got back from Monster. Here it is. Nothing to write home about for sure. With the size and placement of the holes I see only hotter engine bay air and questionable flow gains, but time and testing will tell.... Dennis is weather locked at the moment but is contemplating a "trip" to warmer weather to do his testing. 308gunner has received his as well as is testing I believe....
168554168555

2 things you overlook. Or not quite grasping.

1:
This isn't an enclosed engine compartment. But doesn't even matter.
A 1330cc engine at a volumetric efficiency of 100% moves 1.33L of air for every cycle. At say 6000rpm, this is 3000 times per minute or 50 times per second.
50 x 1.33 litres every second is 66.5 litres of air EVERY single second at wot.
Note: As rpm is increased or the VE of a good engine can reach 110-115%, this could be up to 92 litres of air movement - EVERY SECOND.

= whatever hot air is in the small engine compartment has been sucked up, spit out and replaced with fresh cold air in under 1 second at wide open throttle. (as engine compartment air is moved, atmospheric pressure pushes new fresh cold air in within fractions of a second.

2:
A 1.5 inch / 38.1mm hole over a 0.5psi pressure drop will flow 176 cfm, which is 2.93 cf per second.
Two of these holes allows an extra 6 cubic feet of air, every second.

The holes are to provide both colder air and more air, when needed. This is the biggest that the lid can be opened up. Its also a cheap $20 part if a user was to ever return bike to stock.


A third effect is at all rpm and throttle positions. The complete plastic intake itself is heated by the engine and exhaust during partial throttle riding. This heat transfers to the air, heating up and incoming air. At low rpm all the air in the intake system is not used every combustion event. So the air sits and is allowed to absorb heat. However, with new inlets, the new closer to air filter holes allow cooler air intake quicker, thus the engine intakes colder air even at partial throttle.
On an F3, the holes in the air filter lid are 4 inches from the top air entry from direct outside air. Not engine compartment.

[Spyd_Piper]

For the record,
Stage 2 is not just random holes in an airbox. It is complete different ecu mapping.
The difference in fuel is important but partial.
The colder air intake temps along with running the fan lower allow programming different air temp torque limiters along with engine temp torque limiters.
Colder engine and air intake give higher headroom towards detonation. Therefore more ignition timing can be safely utilized. Then also less knock reduction can be utilized as well. The overall engine engine mapping for throttle, many different torque limiters, exhaust temp modelling, ignition timing, knock control is all optimized differently.


The worse people can do is misinterpret the stage tuning difference. Do not add air inlets to stage 1 tuning. And do not run stage 2 tuning without the airbox modification. Things are designed, developed and sold in ways for a reason.

Stage 1 tuning is for 91 octane (or can use 93-94) but I allow the use of 87 octane in an emergency. Just - Do not lug engine. Do shift gears fast, keep rpms high. And keep throttle below 50%. Finish your ride or get home and put 91 back in tank. And once you clear out old 87 fuel and are sure its fresh 91 again, then have at it again.

Stage 2 is for 91 octane, and 93-94 and will notice benefits. Its premium only. Never use 87 octane.

[hypurone]

2 things you overlook. Or not quite grasping.

Not overlooking or failing to grasp anything. My automotive knowledge and experiences are quite vast and I have concerns that need to see the data in real world, long term testing .... Especially when it comes to engine timing modifications....

[Jetfixer]

For the record,
Stage 2 is not just random holes in an airbox. It is complete different ecu mapping.
The difference in fuel is important but partial.
The colder air intake temps along with running the fan lower allow programming different air temp torque limiters along with engine temp torque limiters.
Colder engine and air intake give higher headroom towards detonation. Therefore more ignition timing can be safely utilized. Then also less knock reduction can be utilized as well. The overall engine engine mapping for throttle, many different torque limiters, exhaust temp modelling, ignition timing, knock control is all optimized differently.


The worse people can do is misinterpret the stage tuning difference. Do not add air inlets to stage 1 tuning. And do not run stage 2 tuning without the airbox modification. Things are designed, developed and sold in ways for a reason.

Stage 1 tuning is for 91 octane (or can use 93-94) but I allow the use of 87 octane in an emergency. Just - Do not lug engine. Do shift gears fast, keep rpms high. And keep throttle below 50%. Finish your ride or get home and put 91 back in tank. And once you clear out old 87 fuel and are sure its fresh 91 again, then have at it again.

Stage 2 is for 91 octane, and 93-94 and will notice benefits. Its premium only. Never use 87 octane.

My ECU is supposed to be returned to me tomorrow after Stage 1 flash at Wick-It. Have you done any testing using non-ethanol gas versus the 10% ethanol that is (almost) mandatory in the States? Prior to flashing, I've used almost exclusively 89 octane non-ethanol fuel and never noticed any problems. When traveling and non-ethanol was not available, I've always used 93 octane with 10% ethanol. Again, no perceived benefits or problems. Since I have both fuels available to me, what is your opinion on using the 89 octane non-ethanol with the stage 1 flash? Would you still recommend to avoid it? Thanks!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

2 things you overlook. Or not quite grasping.

1:
This isn't an enclosed engine compartment. But doesn't even matter.
A 1330cc engine at a volumetric efficiency of 100% moves 1.33L of air for every cycle. At say 6000rpm, this is 3000 times per minute or 50 times per second.
50 x 1.33 litres every second is 66.5 litres of air EVERY single second at wot.
Note: As rpm is increased or the VE of a good engine can reach 110-115%, this could be up to 92 litres of air movement - EVERY SECOND.
I have removed my long plastic Air Intake ( 2014 RT ) and the restricting slots at the front end could not imho ever allow 66.5 litres of air EVERY SECOND …..
= whatever hot air is in the small engine compartment has been sucked up, spit out and replaced with fresh cold air in under 1 second at wide open throttle. (as engine compartment air is moved, atmospheric pressure pushes new fresh cold air in within fractions of a second.
… …. I saw the three holes in the top of the Air Box ….where is the COLD AIR coming from - - not from under the Tupperware ….check my album page for a PIC of my Air Intake - 3 inch diameter straight shot from OUTSIDE the Tupperware.
2:
A 1.5 inch / 38.1mm hole over a 0.5psi pressure drop will flow 176 cfm, which is 2.93 cf per second.
Two of these holes allows an extra 6 cubic feet of air, every second.

The holes are to provide both colder air and more air, when needed. This is the biggest that the lid can be opened up. Its also a cheap $20 part if a user was to ever return bike to stock.
….again - where is the COLD air coming from …..

A third effect is at all rpm and throttle positions. The complete plastic intake itself is heated by the engine and exhaust during partial throttle riding. This heat transfers to the air, heating up and incoming air. At low rpm all the air in the intake system is not used every combustion event. So the air sits and is allowed to absorb heat. However, with new inlets, the new closer to air filter holes allow cooler air intake quicker, thus the engine intakes colder air even at partial throttle.
On an F3, the holes in the air filter lid are 4 inches from the top air entry from direct outside air. Not engine compartment.

See my responses in BLUE above ………. Mike :thumbup:

[hypurone]

For those thinking I am here just to bash, I'm not! I have the Stage 1 flash already and it took real data from Dennis to provide me with concrete evidence that it was worth doing and was safely implemented and for long term use.

That said, I am not saying the Stage 2 isn't giving results. I am doubting the "effectiveness" of the air filter lid mod and have concerns about the timing changes when relying solely on running the fans to lower ECT vs a thermostat change/plus the fans as the two will fight each other otherwise. And the potential fallout if the ECT isn't safely/properly managed (IE: the fans fail or radiators clog etc) and the knock-sensor/ECM can't pull enough timing to avoid detonation?

I just need to see some data and under what conditions (temps/loads etc) this was tested under. Cuz remember folks, this kind of thing is solely the responsibility of the end user in the event there is any damage incurred....

[SNOOPY]

Good info here. I take it most of you guys commenting have the 1330 motor?

Like to see more results on the 998.

[308gunner]

I went drag racing with the stage II with the F-3 with friend who ALSO has a stage II on his so it's an equal race...with video and timeslips..all I can say is...the stage II is no joke..the difference between the stage I and II is that the stage II is the bottom end torque...it rips...power off the line...that in opinion..is where the Spyder was lacking ...the top end was resolved on stage I...the bottom was improved too...but the stage II .. enhances the bottom end torque power...my results are on Spyder lovers on Facebook...just look for it..

[308gunner]

Well.....how was the race????

I pm you

[Peter Aawen]

Any chance those of us who don't do facebook could get to see the results/video/timeslips too? :dontknow:

[Jetfixer]

Just got my ECU back from Wick-It Performance after the stage 1 flash! Wow what a difference! I have a 2015 RTL, so I don't expect it to be a race machine, but we do a lot of 2 up riding towing an RT-622 trailer, usually in the mountains. Just on my first 20 mile ride after reinstalling the ECU, the difference is immediately apparent. Much smoother power through the complete range, and smoother shifts also. And of course, no more safety screen nag. I need to get some more miles in to really get the feel of what else is different. Also, I did fill up the tank so that I can see what affect if any it has on fuel economy. I've used the A-car app religiously to track fuel fill-ups since this bike was new and it has averaged 40 mpg over 23000 miles.

[Lew L]

Still waiting with baited breath to get my ECU back from Canada. So many good things said. It arrived there on Friday and hopefully I have it back in the bike ( easy r and r ) soonest.

Lew L

[LeftCoast]

Just got my ECU back from Wick-It Performance after the stage 1 flash! Wow what a difference! I have a 2015 RTL, so I don't expect it to be a race machine, but we do a lot of 2 up riding towing an RT-622 trailer, usually in the mountains. Just on my first 20 mile ride after reinstalling the ECU, the difference is immediately apparent. Much smoother power through the complete range, and smoother shifts also. And of course, no more safety screen nag. I need to get some more miles in to really get the feel of what else is different. Also, I did fill up the tank so that I can see what affect if any it has on fuel economy. I've used the A-car app religiously to track fuel fill-ups since this bike was new and it has averaged 40 mpg over 23000 miles.

As a fellow 2015 RTL owner I’m very interested in your impression when you have more miles on. This mod would probably be the next I’d do.

[Devious56]

As a fellow 2015 RTL owner I’m very interested in your impression when you have more miles on. This mod would probably be the next I’d do.

I have more than 12,000 mile on my 2015 RT Limited with the reflash (sstage 1), and have no regrets. You are going to kick yourself is the ass for waiting so long to do it. It has made every aspect of riding the Spyder better.

[trikermutha]

I am still trying to find the post on facebook???

[Micha.]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/F3SpyderLovers/

[Spyd_Piper]

Not overlooking or failing to grasp anything. My automotive knowledge and experiences are quite vast and I have concerns that need to see the data in real world, long term testing .... Especially when it comes to engine timing modifications....

Automotive and small engines are not very similar in most aspects than being fuel injected engines.

And what was your concerns?
What engine timing modifications are you exactly concerned about?

As for your small hole theory.... with "Questionable airflow".
2x 38.1mm holes are 100% the area of the 54mm throttle body itself.
(54mm TB = 2289.06 mm2,
(2 holes = 2279.03 mm2)
So adding the exact same area inlet as the throttle body itself is questionable in its flow?

[Spyd_Piper]

My ECU is supposed to be returned to me tomorrow after Stage 1 flash at Wick-It. Have you done any testing using non-ethanol gas versus the 10% ethanol that is (almost) mandatory in the States? Prior to flashing, I've used almost exclusively 89 octane non-ethanol fuel and never noticed any problems. When traveling and non-ethanol was not available, I've always used 93 octane with 10% ethanol. Again, no perceived benefits or problems. Since I have both fuels available to me, what is your opinion on using the 89 octane non-ethanol with the stage 1 flash? Would you still recommend to avoid it? Thanks!

Ethonal content doesn't matter. (E10 or not)
The system uses oxygen sensors and will change fuel tuning for each fuel. You can use each.
Only concern is that I would definitely get rid of the ethanol fuel for winter storage. Or at least treat it with seafoam.

However, octane is important. I have not tested 89 and cannot give you specific answer. Fuels are also different everywhere. If you are knowledgeable about engines, you could do some testing on the 89. My advice would be to avoid the 89 on the stage 1 unless you are stuck. Treat it like 87.

Use 91. And even test 93.
If you are testing 89 (on your own merit) first, test both 93 and 91. If there is performance improvement noticed with 93 over 91. Then forget 89 all together. If 91 performs better, then continue testing 91 vs 89.
But again remember, that pump fuels are different across all states in USA and provinces in Canada. As well as brands. And even northern locations have differences again in spring and fall as winter blends stat to come in. Fuel is just not the same. So results in one location will be different in another. Use the same gas station for your tests.

[Peteoz]

I have more than 12,000 mile on my 2015 RT Limited with the reflash (sstage 1), and have no regrets. You are going to kick yourself is the ass for waiting so long to do it. It has made every aspect of riding the Spyder better.

I agree completely, Devious. I couldn’t care less about 1/4 mile times.....but as you say it has made the Spyder experience significantly better overall.

Pete

[LeftCoast]

Ok I’m convinced. Not a matter of if but when.

[hypurone]

Automotive and small engines are not very similar in most aspects than being fuel injected engines.

And what was your concerns?
What engine timing modifications are you exactly concerned about?

As for your small hole theory.... with "Questionable airflow".
2x 38.1mm holes are 100% the area of the 54mm throttle body itself.
(54mm TB = 2289.06 mm2,
(2 holes = 2279.03 mm2)
So adding the exact same area inlet as the throttle body itself is questionable in its flow?

I can't believe you just said that! The only thing "not very similar" is the range of RPM operation, sure there are some differences but not that would be considered dissimilar enough as far as tuning/programming... But internally there are plenty of 1.3-1.5L engines in cars/SUV's these days that could be transposed with motorcycle engines and operate just fine with the proper electronics, mounting etc...

As for timing changes, you stated you can only lower the ECT by 7deg max by turning the fans on sooner! This is a VERY narrow window in which to operate when making timing changes and has me concerned with how much change you are making and the safety/reliability of the engine if ECT or IAT goes out of range due to inadequate cooling or hotter than anticipated intake air charge. Thus I asked if the knock-sensor is sensitive/quick enough to "catch" any change and reduce timing far enough to avoid damage. Also, how robust are these cooling fans? If you are going to be running them all the time (you would need to in hopes of staying in your ECT window) how long will they survive? How much testing was done in this regard?

As for the increased air flow, you really need to talk to Dennis about a test he ran on the air filter lid mod....

[Lew L]

Still waiting with baited breath to get my ECU back from Canada. So many good things said. It arrived there on Friday and hopefully I have it back in the bike ( easy r and r ) soonest.

Lew L

It's been shipped:yes::ohyea::yes::ohyea:

Any bets on Spyd_Piper first name--------- I'll go with Steve ( from Monster FI )

[strykerAKAmack]

I'm torn between ecu flash or the power commander V
I see that PCV has been released for the F3-S with map for 15-thru 17
I've got a 18 SM6 F3-S so wondering if tune would work that PCV has out .
I've always added a PC to my motorcycles as I like the ability to get back to
stock configuration painlessly just by pulling a plug and bypassing the whole system .
Anyone tried the PC route on an F3-S ?

[trikermutha]

Yes but not for a F3. will update when things unfreeze in my area.

I do have the PC on the RT now using a f3 map.

Going with the PVCX tuner now. More to follow later on this topic

[hypurone]

Yes but not for a F3. will update when things unfreeze in my area.

I do have the PC on the RT now using a f3 map.

Going with the PVCX tuner now. More to follow later on this topic

Wow! It took them long enough.... Please do share your opinions/findings with this and the tunes they have available (both show as stock intake/stock exhaust). Not sure how those would perform on my modded exhaust but for 400.00 and the ability to switch back and forth and clear codes etc, I could talk myself into it!

I am flashed with the Stage 1 but very interested to compare the two!

[trikermutha]

Wow! It took them long enough.... Please do share your opinions/findings with this and the tunes they have available (both show as stock intake/stock exhaust). Not sure how those would perform on my modded exhaust but for 400.00 and the ability to switch back and forth and clear codes etc, I could talk myself into it!

I am flashed with the Stage 1 but very interested to compare the two!

It will take some time as the tune was for a 16-18 RT. I am guessing they should be close for the 14 RT's. Right now just in the starting process of this. I was also wondering if the tune that you guys use can be used on the PVCX tuner??

[hypurone]

I'm torn between ecu flash or the power commander V
I see that PCV has been released for the F3-S with map for 15-thru 17
I've got a 18 SM6 F3-S so wondering if tune would work that PCV has out .
I've always added a PC to my motorcycles as I like the ability to get back to
stock configuration painlessly just by pulling a plug and bypassing the whole system .
Anyone tried the PC route on an F3-S ?


Yes but not for a F3. will update when things unfreeze in my area.

I do have the PC on the RT now using a f3 map.

Going with the PVCX tuner now. More to follow later on this topic


It will take some time as the tune was for a 16-18 RT. I am guessing they should be close for the 14 RT's. Right now just in the starting process of this. I was also wondering if the tune that you guys use can be used on the PVCX tuner??

They show that the PVCX is available for the 15-18 F3/F3-S with two tunes listed on their site. Part number = PV3-25-05. Every DynoJet unit I have used in the past saves the existing tune BEFORE writing their tune into the ECM. I have sent them an email to confirm this.... Not sure they have built in the ability to dump the tune file out of the programmer. Also, it most likely will be "coded" to the byke it came out of and I doubt would be able to be shared for use in another byke.

[trikermutha]

They show that the PVCX is available for the 15-18 F3/F3-S with two tunes listed on their site. Part number = PV3-25-05. Every DynoJet unit I have used in the past saves the existing tune BEFORE writing their tune into the ECM. I have sent them an email to confirm this.... Not sure they have built in the ability to dump the tune file out of the programmer. Also, it most likely will be "coded" to the byke it came out of and I doubt would be able to be shared for use in another byke.

It does save your original tune once you it has access to your ECM.

If I pull the tune on my 14 they will check it for me and send me a new one or use what is on there site.

[hypurone]

It does save your original tune once you it has access to your ECM.

If I pull the tune on my 14 they will check it for me and send me a new one or use what is on there site.

I just got this weird response from them:
Thanks for the inquiry. We cannot read out what is in the ECU so your first step would be to write a stock file to the ECU assuming it takes it. Then you would write one of our tunes on top of that.

We can read and clear DTCs with the device. You will be able to log channels from the ECU while riding and review them if desired.

To me this means if you already have any type of tune/flash in the ECM it will be lost because you must write a "stock tune" to it, then load one of their custom tunes! Eeeeeek!

[trikermutha]

I just got this weird response from them:
Thanks for the inquiry. We cannot read out what is in the ECU so your first step would be to write a stock file to the ECU assuming it takes it. Then you would write one of our tunes on top of that.

We can read and clear DTCs with the device. You will be able to log channels from the ECU while riding and review them if desired.

To me this means if you already have any type of tune/flash in the ECM it will be lost because you must write a "stock tune" to it, then load one of their custom tunes! Eeeeeek!

Once you plug it in it is suppose to write the stock file that's IF the tuner will work on your Spyder. So Like me I am not sure if it will work on a 14 RT since they have only tested them on the 16 -18 RT's. I am guessing it will but have to plug it in and then if it does it will show there custom files for you to upload to the ECM

[Dean8]

What do you have to remove to install Power commander and wiring on a 2016 RT?

[derichio02]

I’ve only had my F3-S for about a month. Got a killer deal on a 17 demo unit from BRP. I think I already know the answer but there is no warranty preservation with Monster or Pedal Commander right? I have tuned my Cummins diesel and know the risks but just wanted to be sure that all methods for the F3 void the factory warranty.

[hypurone]

Once you plug it in it is suppose to write the stock file that's IF the tuner will work on your Spyder. So Like me I am not sure if it will work on a 14 RT since they have only tested them on the 16 -18 RT's. I am guessing it will but have to plug it in and then if it does it will show there custom files for you to upload to the ECM

Yeah, I get that part.Like I said I have used them in many of my bikes. The part I can't seem to get a clear answer on is: Being that I am flashed already, but it is technically the stock (OEM) tune (albeit tweaked a bit), does it see it as a non-stock tune and get overwritten with what they consider a stock tune before any of their custom tunes can be loaded....

[trikermutha]

Yeah, I get that part.Like I said I have used them in many of my bikes. The part I can't seem to get a clear answer on is: Being that I am flashed already, but it is technically the stock (OEM) tune (albeit tweaked a bit), does it see it as a non-stock tune and get overwritten with what they consider a stock tune before any of their custom tunes can be loaded....

That would be the Thousand dollar Answer! I know they did say I could keep my PC hooked up when I hook up the PVCX tuner. Any way hope to hear if it will or wont in your case. That would be a sweet deal to do. Two separate tunes or more from two different vendors.

[SmoovOpRatoR]

Hey folks, I'm not too familiar with the Power Commander. If I were to install a PCV it remaps the ECU for more power, and if I needed to take my machine in for servicing I could just un plug the PCV and the shop would not know the ECU was remapped? Have I got that right?
Thanks in advance.

[SNOOPY]

Ok I’m convinced. Not a matter of if but when.


Same here, just can’t find the time to figure out where the ECU is on a STS, pull it and send it. Lol

[trikermutha]

Hey folks, I'm not too familiar with the Power Commander. If I were to install a PCV it remaps the ECU for more power, and if I needed to take my machine in for servicing I could just un plug the PCV and the shop would not know the ECU was remapped? Have I got that right?
Thanks in advance.

The Power Commader V piggy Backs thru the PC to the ECU it does not remap the ECU ,.Yes you could unplug it when servicing.

[308gunner]

It's been shipped:yes::ohyea::yes::ohyea:

Any bets on Spyd_Piper first name--------- I'll go with Steve ( from Monster FI )
Hey Lew....did you get your ECU back yet???

[Lew L]

No, as a matter of fact. I'm waiting ( with baited breath :2excited:) for the delivery-------- BUT------ the weather here is terrible. I used the snowblower 2x and 2x today. There will be one more episode with the snow machine before the day is done. The "Polar Vortex" ( otherwise known as winter in the central/eastern US.) has caused its usually chaos with transportation, ect.

Even after it arrives the streets here are going to be well iced up. I'll have to wait.:(:(:(

Lew L

[Lew L]

Well the flashed ECU has been in Chicago since last Friday. It was supposed to be deliver on the 6th. Good luck USPS.:(

[trikermutha]

With the Crazy Weather we had here in Chicago the last week and a ice storm tonight you may get it by the end of the month..

[SNOOPY]

I had a package held up for 3 extra days because it traveled through that area. :(

[308gunner]

Well the flashed ECU has been in Chicago since last Friday. It was supposed to be deliver on the 6th. Good luck USPS.:(

hopefully it have some movement this week. Id give it another week. keep us posted.

[Lew L]

hopefully it have some movement this week. Id give it another week. keep us posted.

You bet. Could complain but it certainly wouldn't help. Roads in my neighborhood are still snow/ice covered. I'll just go fast skiing but ANOTHER three day storm is due starting tonite.

Lew L

PS: USPS says it's out for delivery today:yes:

[308gunner]

You bet. Could complain but it certainly wouldn't help. Roads in my neighborhood are still snow/ice covered. I'll just go fast skiing but ANOTHER three day storm is due starting tonite.

Lew L

PS: USPS says it's out for delivery today:yes:

Then you should have it today or tommorrow..Im excited for you...Im sure others here are happy for you too...

[Lew L]

Then you should have it today or tommorrow..Im excited for you...Im sure others here are happy for you too...

I'm excited 4 me 2. ANNNND it just arrived.:yes::yes: But it's far to cold in my shop to install it.:( I'll heat up the shop tomorrow in install but won't be able to test for a while.

Lew L

[308gunner]

I'm excited 4 me 2. ANNNND it just arrived.:yes::yes: But it's far to cold in my shop to install it.:( I'll heat up the shop tomorrow in install but won't be able to test for a while.

Lew L
You have it back and will have it installed tommorrow..thats all that matters..when springtime comes you will be good to go....Congrats....welcome to the Dark Side!!!

[strykerAKAmack]

New things appear everyday . Went back to dynojet site and now they have it configurable for the 2018 F3-S .
So I input info to see products available and guess what pops up ? The Power Vision CX .
looking into that it is a ecu re-flasher and they have 2 tunes available for it .
From the horses mouth
"The Power Commander is a piggy-back device that must be installed to function. The Power Vision CX is a re-flash device that doesn’t need to be installed. Both will give you more performance and improved drive-ability by adjusting the fuel & ignition, however, the Power Vision CX allows tune changes that can only occur by re-flashing the ECM such as: lowering cooling fan turn on temp, disabling torque limiting functions, and revised drive-by-wire profiles. The Power Commander offers faster real-time tuning through the device whereas the Power Vision CX requires the ECM to be re-flashed after changes are made to the tune."
So now 2 choices from dynojet
hmmm

[Micha.]

Then, let's go. Buy and report. I will report on the MaptunerX in April.

[ddjim]

i received this today from maptunerx.
Thanks for your email.
We have stage 1 and stage 2 for your 2017 spyder f3s daytona
Stage 1 + 7Hp
Stage 2 with sport exhaust +9Hp
Tune will only affect sport mode.
Speed Limiter is removed with both stages.
dynojet told me to expect around 10%hp gain with the powervision v3.
power gains seem low compared to the monster fuel tunes +22hp ?.
would be interesting to know what monsters secret sauce is as 22%hp gain seems high for a naturally aspirated engine re-map

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I won't claim I know HOW Monster gets to their number, however the Rotax used in the Aprilla ( which is also naturally aspirated ) claims about 160 HP …… So I think the power is in the Rotax !!!! ……….. I know about power to weight ratio's, so 10% power increase will show up on a DYNO, but not really in " seat of the pants " or 1/4 mile ( or passing ability )………….. anecdotal evidence from forum members - says Monster is the way to spend your money …..jmho …. Mike :ohyea:

[Lew L]

It sure would be nice if ALL these companies selling ECU upgrades/add ons could PROVE their gains with a dyno print out. I spent my $$$ on the Monster tune based on what many folks here raved on about ( they can't all be on the payroll). I wanted plug and play-- so that's what I got.

Lew L

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It sure would be nice if ALL these companies selling ECU upgrades/add ons could PROVE their gains with a dyno print out. I spent my $$$ on the Monster tune based on what many folks here raved on about ( they can't all be on the payroll). I wanted plug and play-- so that's what I got.

Lew L

:agree: ……… However from what I've read about Dyno-ing any Spyder, it is a bit complicated...… But I think for a TUNER who is selling this type of product it would be worthwhile financially to have it done ……. jmho …. Mike :ohyea:

[ddjim]

I won't claim I know HOW Monster gets to their number, however the Rotax used in the Aprilla ( which is also naturally aspirated ) claims about 160 HP …… So I think the power is in the Rotax !!!! ……….. I know about power to weight ratio's, so 10% power increase will show up on a DYNO, but not really in " seat of the pants " or 1/4 mile ( or passing ability )………….. anecdotal evidence from forum members - says Monster is the way to spend your money …..jmho …. Mike :ohyea:

torque limiter and throttle position adjustment alone would give you " seat of the pants " or 1/4 mile improvements . i cant understand why dynojet & maptunerx would be 12% lower than with the monster tune.
after all its the same ecu tables there modifying.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

the aprilia RSV Mille version of the 998 has different cams pistons and totally different major components and 143 HP. it's based on the same platform but not the same internally.
torque limiter and throttle position adjustment alone would give you " seat of the pants " or 1/4 mile improvements . i cant understand why dynojet & maptunerx would be 12% lower than with the monster tune.
after all its the same ecu tables there modifying.

First thank you for correcting my HP number - but what I was pointing out was that the normally aspirated ROTAX engine has lots of ponies in it - that can be released ……… with the proper engine parts...…….. and does require a TURBO or Supercharger ……… Mike :ohyea:

[Micha.]

Whether 7 PS or 9 PS or 10% more horsepower is almost no matter. The force that drives you forward is important. Under what speed the newtonmeter are available. The overall package then makes the improved driveability and not the top performance, which may only be available at 8500 - 9000.

[Geep]

Dyno Jet Power Vision
“PVCX TUNES AVAILABLE

Can-Am Spyder RT 2016 has tunes, see below.

2505101
7C1153OA7VKS1 : Stock exhaust, Stock intake
2505102
7C1153OD6VMS5 : Stock exhaust, Stock intake”

Why 2016 and up? Aren’t the 1300s the same? And what are the differences between two tunes? No longer own a PC so I’m screwed ......

[SmoovOpRatoR]

I just ordered the Dynojet Power Vision, it seems to be user customizable and uses the existing port to connect. We'll see how she goes!

https://cart.dynojet.com/p-3069-power-vision.aspx

[JackSA]

Just a little Survey for those that have had the ECU Flashed on their Spyder. Could you provide how long it is that you have being riding with the upgrade and what your results have being, etc.

Mine was done in early November 2018. Stage 2, and I am so satisfied with the vehicle now. Performance better, higher torque, no negatives. Fuel consumption the same, slightly better if you ride at constant speeds. But we live in the Adelaide hills, so the extra power is applied.
Very happy.

[trikermutha]

Do we need to start a Dyno jet Tuner Thread and leave the Monster thread as is??

I do have updates on the PV Tuner and CAn Am Model Year 2014 for the Tuner.

[Jetfixer]

It's been about 3 weeks since I got my ECU back from the Stage 1 flash. The difference is amazing! However, I have always used 89 octane non-ethanol fuel. The bike had a full tank when the ECU came back. There was actually a slight increase in MPG after the flash, especially considering how many times I "tested" the flash! I've always gotten about 40 MPG according to my Acar app records. I then switched to 93 octane premium fuel with 10% ethanol. After two tanks of this fuel, my mpg has dropped to 36. I know that the ethanol causes lower MPG. I think there has only been a slight increase in power using the 93.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It's been about 3 weeks since I got my ECU back from the Stage 1 flash. The difference is amazing! However, I have always used 89 octane non-ethanol fuel. The bike had a full tank when the ECU came back. There was actually a slight increase in MPG after the flash, especially considering how many times I "tested" the flash! I've always gotten about 40 MPG according to my Acar app records. I then switched to 93 octane premium fuel with 10% ethanol. After two tanks of this fuel, my mpg has dropped to 36. I know that the ethanol causes lower MPG. I think there has only been a slight increase in power using the 93.

My .02 on the entire MPG's thing …. Unless you are driving almost the same roads - under the same weather conditions - driving you Spyder in a VERY similar manner ………...The variances in readings are going to be wider than you might expect ……….. There are a couple of folks here who have kept accurate records over many thousands of miles and even this isn't going to be truly accurate because who drives the same way on the same roads in the same weather ???? - NOBODY ……….. ……….. On Octane type - I've read info from Monster Fuel … they say you can use 91 oct. ( 93 isn't as widely available ) so if you use 89 oct. this is two points which is less than a 2% drop...………. Lots of OPINIONS ( not based on DYNO tests, but on BUTT tests ) where folks claim they can FEEL a drop in performance...OR improvement ….. In my REAL world experience people who have claimed great improvement in acceleration have been surprised when they had their veh's DYNO tested. …… Not " dissing " anyone here just trying to provide some perspective ……………. Mike :ohyea:

[Jetfixer]

My .02 on the entire MPG's thing …. Unless you are driving almost the same roads - under the same weather conditions - driving you Spyder in a VERY similar manner ………...The variances in readings are going to be wider than you might expect ……….. There are a couple of folks here who have kept accurate records over many thousands of miles and even this isn't going to be truly accurate because who drives the same way on the same roads in the same weather ???? - NOBODY ……….. ……….. On Octane type - I've read info from Monster Fuel … they say you can use 91 oct. ( 93 isn't as widely available ) so if you use 89 oct. this is two points which is less than a 2% drop...………. Lots of OPINIONS ( not based on DYNO tests, but on BUTT tests ) where folks claim they can FEEL a drop in performance...OR improvement ….. In my REAL world experience people who have claimed great improvement in acceleration have been surprised when they had their veh's DYNO tested. …… Not " dissing " anyone here just trying to provide some perspective ……………. Mike :ohyea:

That's my point exactly. I am completely against having to have ethanol added to our fuels. I don't feel there is enough difference in engine performance to justify all the drawbacks of having ethanol in the fuel. And it's scientific fact that ethanol has less BTU's, which means in order to get the same engine performance from the fuel, you must burn more of it. Hence the lower MPG's. Since I ride my Spyder as a commuter-mobile and don't race it. I feel that I'm safe using the 89 non-ethanol as long as I don't lug the engine in too low of a gear.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

That's my point exactly. I am completely against having to have ethanol added to our fuels. I don't feel there is enough difference in engine performance to justify all the drawbacks of having ethanol in the fuel. And it's scientific fact that ethanol has less BTU's, which means in order to get the same engine performance from the fuel, you must burn more of it. Hence the lower MPG's. Since I ride my Spyder as a commuter-mobile and don't race it. I feel that I'm safe using the 89 non-ethanol as long as I don't lug the engine in too low of a gear.

Jet you have the 15 RT Ltd. so you have the SE trans ….. ( so do I ) I can't think of a way to LUG that trans..... It is set-up to auto downshift when needed and I 99% sure it won't let you UP-SHIFT unless you are at the right speed and Torque load ….. please educate me if my thoughts on this are in-correct ….. Thanks …. Mike :ohyea:

[canamjhb]

So, now I'm a little confused. I am getting ready to have mine flashed for the following reason..... I want more power and responsiveness when touring...... especially at higher altitudes and when pulling my 622 trailer. My wife rides (my former) Goldwing when we tour. I lead. When in a passing situation, there is no way I can accelerate fast enough to get out of her way. She comes on the communicator and asks "whats wrong?". And I tell her, "I'am going as fast as I can". So, will a stage 1 get me more acceleration and power in those situations? Or, do I need to do more tweeking. Fuel mileage is not a concern and for the record, I always use premium fuel. I just want better responsiveness when I need it..... Another 15-20 ponies will do it for me. I am not interested in being able to do burn-outs, etc...... Jim

[hypurone]

Jet you have the 15 RT Ltd. so you have the SE trans ….. ( so do I ) I can't think of a way to LUG that trans..... It is set-up to auto downshift when needed and I 99% sure it won't let you UP-SHIFT unless you are at the right speed and Torque load ….. please educate me if my thoughts on this are in-correct ….. Thanks …. Mike :ohyea:

True, But you can still be in too high of a gear for a given throttle application and technically be "lugging" the engine.... Yes the engine operates in that parameter but loads are much greater than if you were in a better gear for the given scenario. Like say, putting along in 4th at 2k and hammer it vs 3rd gear at 2k with the same throttle application.... I think these are the scenarios he is referring to....

[larryd]

I am larryd, I am a fan of getting the 89T rear sprockets to work on our heaver, riding double, pulling trailers RT Spyders...This would make a world of difference in the performance of the RT's...When BRP wanted to step up the performance on the F3's all they did was change to the lower gearing 89T rear sprocket...Steve at MFI had been working with two different testers for this project and thought he had it perfected but a glitch showed up...I recently talked to Steve about this task and he said he would like to have a slave RT close at hand to try and get this working...I told Steve that I would donate the 89T sprocket and belt to try and make this happen...Now all that is needed is someone that lives on the Canada side of the boarder close to Steve @ MFI so he has a Spyder in hand to work with...If I lived closer it would be me, but it takes two weeks for the most part to send the ECU back and forth...On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDS menu that you can choose 89T or 79T rear sprocket ratio...I think this is a doable task, SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW...larryd

canamjhb...My above response was to respond to your towing acceleration concerns...My screw up for not attaching to your post...And my RTS has the MFI stage 1 flash...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So, now I'm a little confused. I am getting ready to have mine flashed for the following reason..... I want more power and responsiveness when touring...... especially at higher altitudes and when pulling my 622 trailer. My wife rides (my former) Goldwing when we tour. I lead. When in a passing situation, there is no way I can accelerate fast enough to get out of her way. She comes on the communicator and asks "whats wrong?". And I tell her, "I'am going as fast as I can". So, will a stage 1 get me more acceleration and power in those situations? Or, do I need to do more tweeking. Fuel mileage is not a concern and for the record, I always use premium fuel. I just want better responsiveness when I need it..... Another 15-20 ponies will do it for me. I am not interested in being able to do burn-outs, etc...... Jim

As I stated in my post #155 above …. I'm quite sure if you have an SE trans. a LUGGING scenario is not very likely …. I would try and an LUG my 2014 RT but it's buried in my basement due to WINTER :roflblack:...…….. Mike

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

True, But you can still be in too high of a gear for a given throttle application and technically be "lugging" the engine.... Yes the engine operates in that parameter but loads are much greater than if you were in a better gear for the given scenario. Like say, putting along in 4th at 2k and hammer it vs 3rd gear at 2k with the same throttle application.... I think these are the scenarios he is referring to....

Here's my thoughts on your scenario …. ( not dissing you ) …. " anyone can do something ridiculous/outrageous etc.... I think it's written in the US Constitution " , but I'm not one who would - are you ????? ( again not dissing you ) ……… BRP has done a hugh amount of homework on how to prevent a rider from having an accident ………. However they nor anyone else can prevent someone from just driving off the road or slamming into a bridge abutment …. but imho it's so rare an occurrence I don't think it's been done yet …… and again NOT dissing anyone here ….. Mike :ohyea:

[ddjim]

if you put in fuel with an octane rating too low for your vehicle, it can create a knock. An octane rating is the measure of a fuel type’s ability to resist premature detonation of the air-fuel mixture in the engine. This combustion causes “knocking” or “pinging” monster change timing and knock sensor values for 91 octane fuel engine knock can do this169414 .from the monster website ''Note: 89 or 87 can be used in an ''emergency''. If used, stay below 50% grip throttle and don't lug engine in a high gear with low rpm. Keep engine rpms higher (5000+rpm) only using low gears. The throttle opening should never outpace
engine rpm (load engine). Cycle fuel tank before riding normal again. Always use 91+ on stage 2 setups'' doesn't sound like fun to me to stay below 50% throttle i wouldn't risk it with 89 or 87 unless i had to. you do not get good mpg with melted valves and pistons

[Jetfixer]

Between my last post and this one, I agree with all of you. And if I remember correctly, there was some info from Monster that said their flash (Stage 1) essentially kept the factory parameters below 3000 rpm. The new settings kicked in above 3k. And as with any engine, it's best to not lug it when cold. That said, with my Stage 1 flash, my bike still downshifts at the same points if left on its own, and does allow me to upshift even if I feel it might be too low of an rpm. As detrimental as pre-ignition (knock, ping, etc.) is, I almost wish there was a way to know for sure if it would be audible on this bike. I swear I've never heard any either before or after the flash. The Monster Stage 1 flash absolutely comes to life after 3000! This thing just wants to go! I use my Spyder as a daily driver commuter mobile in any weather except icing and brine covered roads. For some reason now, even though I leave my house at the same time, I get to work earlier each day!;)

[JS3535]

Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

[hypurone]

Here's my thoughts on your scenario …. ( not dissing you ) …. " anyone can do something ridiculous/outrageous etc.... I think it's written in the US Constitution " , but I'm not one who would - are you ????? ( again not dissing you ) ……… BRP has done a hugh amount of homework on how to prevent a rider from having an accident ………. However they nor anyone else can prevent someone from just driving off the road or slamming into a bridge abutment …. but imho it's so rare an occurrence I don't think it's been done yet …… and again NOT dissing anyone here ….. Mike :ohyea:

And they will! I was only confirming that yes, a person can technically "lug" the engine, even with the SE trans, which makes the loads on the rod bearings/wrist pins & rings that much greater.... And once they have the "flashed" power/torque curve, they tend to get "lazy" with the shifting cuz it pulls so well.....

[ddjim]

JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

sounds like a good plan to me

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

sounds like a good plan to me

You might not be happy with the way that stuff is created ( ie chemically ) …… Mike :ohyea:

[strykerAKAmack]

Trigger pulled Vision CX ordered :)

[canamjhb]

JS3535 Sent mine off for stage 1....can’t hardly wait to get it back!!!

What do you guys think of carrying a bottle of octane boost for emergencies?
I go up to the mountains a lot & always fill up before because most places only have a 87 pump.

sounds like a good plan to me

You need LOWER octane at higher altitudes. Less oxygen at higher altitudes so you need to have a lower flash point for the fuel. Your bike will adjust and compensate for the altitude and you should realize better fuel mileage while experiencing reduced performance. Adding octane booster would be counter-productive..... Jim

[308gunner]

I am larryd, I am a fan of getting the 89T rear sprockets to work on our heaver, riding double, pulling trailers RT Spyders...This would make a world of difference in the performance of the RT's...When BRP wanted to step up the performance on the F3's all they did was change to the lower gearing 89T rear sprocket...Steve at MFI had been working with two different testers for this project and thought he had it perfected but a glitch showed up...I recently talked to Steve about this task and he said he would like to have a slave RT close at hand to try and get this working...I told Steve that I would donate the 89T sprocket and belt to try and make this happen...Now all that is needed is someone that lives on the Canada side of the boarder close to Steve @ MFI so he has a Spyder in hand to work with...If I lived closer it would be me, but it takes two weeks for the most part to send the ECU back and forth...On the F3's there is a selection in the BUDS menu that you can choose 89T or 79T rear sprocket ratio...I think this is a doable task, SOMEONE JUST NEEDS TO FIGURE OUT HOW...larryd

canamjhb...My above response was to respond to your towing acceleration concerns...My screw up for not attaching to your post...And my RTS has the MFI stage 1 flash...

I asked steve about this too..hes working on it..when hes successful in doing this in which he will (he needs more time)..a lot of people will have it done..

[kdp1308]

I just asked Steve about the 89t rear sprocket and this was his reply, "We started to look into allowing sprocket changes, but never finished. Personally, I think the higher gearing of the 79T is better. Just add power to match the 89T acceleration. And I think a better mod would be for the 80T users to install the 79T setup. (Not the opposite)."
I just want to be able to get off the line riding 2 up and to be able to use 5th gear.

[larryd]

The only thing the 79 T rear sprocket may be good at is top speed...And then only if you have the HP to push the Spyder thru the air resistance...

When ever you purchase a vehicle with the towing package they have the same HP as all the others but have a lower rear gear to make them pull...

I would like to see two exactly the same EVERYTHING F3 Spyders line up against each other, with the only difference, one equipped with 79T and the other with 89T rear sprockets...I would bet the 89T would kick A** every time...Why do you think BRP changed to the 89T F3??? It was the easiest way to make them quicker...No other reason...

I have offered to loan a 89T black rear sprocket and a new belt to anyone that lives near Steve at MFI to get this developed...He needs a slave bike close at hand to work on...There is too much shipping and riding time lost mailing the ECM's around...

This 89T sprocket change for the RT would really wake these heavy machines up...

larryd

[strykerAKAmack]

I just ordered the Dynojet Power Vision, it seems to be user customizable and uses the existing port to connect. We'll see how she goes!

https://cart.dynojet.com/p-3069-power-vision.aspx

Have you tried hooking it up yet ?
Mine arrived yesterday and connecting to port just right of rad cap I get nothing {F3-S} , key turned on , unless I plug in my computer to power unit , but then when I try to do first flash to marry it , it says "no ecu" connected .
thanks

[strykerAKAmack]

Have you tried hooking it up yet ?
Mine arrived yesterday and connecting to port just right of rad cap I get nothing {F3-S} , key turned on , unless I plug in my computer to power unit , but then when I try to do first flash to marry it , it says "no ecu" connected .
thanks

digging a little deeper seems got a wrong cable , on the bike plug pins 12345 have cables plugged in but on the PV cable it has pins for 123&6 so 123 pins connect to bike while pin 6 is dead ended . and calls to dj gets phones are down at moment

[trikermutha]

I used tech support online. You have the wrong cable. Seems like they been sending the wrong cables for the spyder. And it will never read your ECU . Once you get the correct cable you may have to send the ECU in to pull your tune and then they create one for your Spyder.

Then load the maps to your Tuner and then you can load the revised tune to the ECU.

I was sent cable # # 76950960 this is what they said I needed. Took them 3 times to get it correct.

[JS3535]

I called & talked to a guy at Dynojet about a month ago. He couldn’t really give me a good description of how the unit worked, what tunes were available or what features it would do (like quick start). I called back a week later & talked to someone else & same thing. Needless to say I ended up sending my ECU to monster. Should have it back next week, hope the weather holds out to be able to test it.

[Lew L]

After reading the last page of this thread------ I'm glad I chose Monster Fuel Injection. Just wish the roads were clear of snow so I could run the :spyder2: with the Flashed ( plug and Play ) installed.

Lew L

[strykerAKAmack]

Yea finally got thru to em , wrong cable they Fed ex one for monday morning . Iv'e had PC on all my machines since my Honda CBR F2 and have never had a major problem with any of the units over the years So I don't think they will mess this up ,they been doing this 30 plus years So I got no issues with them .
Best about it {once working of course} is you have control over tunes instead of having to ship out for any thing needed to be done , now if they had OTA updates like Tesla :)

[308gunner]

Yea finally got thru to em , wrong cable they Fed ex one for monday morning . Iv'e had PC on all my machines since my Honda CBR F2 and have never had a major problem with any of the units over the years So I don't think they will mess this up ,they been doing this 30 plus years So I got no issues with them .
Best about it {once working of course} is you have control over tunes instead of having to ship out for any thing needed to be done , now if they had OTA updates like Tesla :)
Did you receive the right cable?...if so...does it work?

[308gunner]

i received this today from maptunerx.
Thanks for your email.
We have stage 1 and stage 2 for your 2017 spyder f3s daytona
Stage 1 + 7Hp
Stage 2 with sport exhaust +9Hp
Tune will only affect sport mode.
Speed Limiter is removed with both stages.
dynojet told me to expect around 10%hp gain with the powervision v3.
power gains seem low compared to the monster fuel tunes +22hp ?.
would be interesting to know what monsters secret sauce is as 22%hp gain seems high for a naturally aspirated engine re-map

The reason why monster is putting out more horsepower than dynotune is because dynotune is only upgrading the software, While Monster opens the ECU box, Replaces hardware components on the ECU board AND Upgrade the software. thats why it cost more and has to be sent in!!!. the only advantage I see of dynotune is that you can tune multiple vehicles with one unit IF you pay additional money. the Disadvantage on dynotune is that you get less horsepower gain ratings...the only disadvantage of monster is you have to remove the ecu and air box lid and send it in to their facility. A lot of people are not that mechanic inclined to do that. I`m glad I am... monster is the better deal overall.

[Firefly]

The reason why monster is putting out more horsepower than dynotune is because dynotune is only upgrading the software, While Monster opens the ECU box, Replaces hardware components on the ECU board AND Upgrade the software. thats why it cost more and has to be sent in!!!. the only advantage I see of dynotune is that you can tune multiple vehicles with one unit IF you pay additional money. the Disadvantage on dynotune is that you get less horsepower gain ratings...the only disadvantage of monster is you have to remove the ecu and air box lid and send it in to their facility. A lot of people are not that mechanic inclined to do that. I`m glad I am... monster is the better deal overall.

If Monster is really adding/changing hardware inside the ECU (I've never heard this from anyone else), then you are for sure going to void your warranty. With the Dyno Powervision you can easily flash back to stock.
I don't doubt the Monster and other 'ship and flash' places work good, but their gain claims seem exaggerated and I've never seen any Dyno's provided by them.
The PowerVision claims are much more reasonable and DynoJet has a long history on doing this.
You can buy extra licenses and do more than one Spyder, or even get an unlimited 'garage' license and do tunes for others.... similar to what Monster is doing....without the alleged electronic modifications--- which I find very hard to believe.
No way would I want them permanently changing internal hardware on the ECU...…

My PowerVision should be in later this week, although it's not riding season up here in Michigan...

[308gunner]

If Monster is really adding/changing hardware inside the ECU (I've never heard this from anyone else), then you are for sure going to void your warranty. With the Dyno Powervision you can easily flash back to stock.
I don't doubt the Monster and other 'ship and flash' places work good, but their gain claims seem exaggerated and I've never seen any Dyno's provided by them.
The PowerVision claims are much more reasonable and DynoJet has a long history on doing this.
You can buy extra licenses and do more than one Spyder, or even get an unlimited 'garage' license and do tunes for others.... similar to what Monster is doing....without the alleged electronic modifications--- which I find very hard to believe.
No way would I want them permanently changing internal hardware on the ECU...…

My PowerVision should be in later this week, although it's not riding season up here in Michigan...

the ECU can be put back to standard configuration at the customer request..I just send it back..ask yourself...why do monster request to send the ECU in...just to program it?...hhhhmmm...NO!!....chances are theyre upgrading/replacing the EEPROM hardware/software to a LARGER BYTE SPACE EEPROM (more room for the enhanced software) combined with the enhanced software which makes sense. thats why you get more true horsepower...similiar to upgrading the speed/memory on a computer (hardware upgrade/replacement). Software only goes so far. With that being said Monster to me is better. better yet..when you get your powervision...race someone who has a monster and see who wins...shouldnt be hard to find a competitor....and when you do, post it ...inquiring minds wants to know the results.

[JS3535]

Inquiring minds want to know...has anyone had engine or transmission problems after having monster flash their ECU? Stage 1 or 2?

[fatboy]

my only problem is i cant stop spinning rear tire and smiling

[hypurone]

Inquiring minds want to know...has anyone had engine or transmission problems after having monster flash their ECU? Stage 1 or 2?

None that I have heard of and if anyone would have experienced it, it would have been Dennis with his RT. He flogged that poor thing mercilessly being the "test mule" for the initial development of the Stage 1 flash. He said it was running just as strong when he traded in for an F3T....

[kdp1308]

When it was pointed out to me that the Powervision was now available I looked and it does list some Spyders if you use the vehicle fitment search. They only list the RT for 2016-2017 and the F3 for 2015-2018. So I emailed them about the availability of one for my Spyder (2013 RT-S) and this was their response:
"The PowerVision has the ability to work on your model. The problem is that there are many stock files from Canam for each model and if we have not seen that file yet then we would need you to send in your ECM. Once we have that we can get you a tune to start with. We won't know if this is the case until you get the PV and connect to the vehicle though."
So they don't know if it will work until you plug it in, assuming they send you the right cable. Then if they don't have any tunes for it, I would have to send the ECU to them. They make up a generic tune and then you have to play with it. I read the pdf they have on how to use their software and it was like reading a DOS manual. I don't want to hook up a laptop to my spyder and spend hours playing and testing with no idea what I am doing.
I did email Steve at Monster and he answered all my questions and there are so many good reviews on here that my ECU in now on its way to Monster. I did ask him for dyno charts and he did send them to me. Stock verses stage 1 and 2, HP and torque.
169623
169624

[Firefly]

the ECU can be put back to standard configuration at the customer request..I just send it back..ask yourself...why do monster request to send the ECU in...just to program it?...hhhhmmm...NO!!....chances are theyre upgrading/replacing the EEPROM hardware/software which makes sense. thats why you get more true horsepower...similiar to upgrading the speed/memory on a computer (hardware upgrade/replacement). Software only goes so far. With that being said Monster to me is better. better yet..when you get your powervision...race someone who has a monster and see who wins...shouldnt be hard to find a competitor....and when you do, post it ...inquiring minds wants to know the results.

So you're not sure they upgrade any electronics.. you're just guessing?
You have to send it in because the average joe simply doesn't have the computer hookup to make the adjustments... which is probably done with either BUDS or something similar to the Power Vision. There should be no need to upgrade any electronics in the ECU.. because it's already programmable.
Racing is fun, but really not a good judge of such improvements.. because the #1 variable in a race is the rider and the launch. That's why Dyno results are a good thing to look at instead.
I'm betting the Power Vision can do the same thing as these 'ship and flash' guys are doing... might even be able to copy their maps and use them.....

[ddjim]

the ECU can be put back to standard configuration at the customer request..I just send it back..ask yourself...why do monster request to send the ECU in...just to program it?...hhhhmmm...NO!!....chances are theyre upgrading/replacing the EEPROM hardware/software which makes sense. thats why you get more true horsepower...similiar to upgrading the speed/memory on a computer (hardware upgrade/replacement). Software only goes so far. With that being said Monster to me is better. better yet..when you get your powervision...race someone who has a monster and see who wins...shouldnt be hard to find a competitor....and when you do, post it ...inquiring minds wants to know the results.

monster can flash the ecu without splitting the ecu only in Canada though .why do monster request to send the ECU in. how would they flash it if you didn't:roflblack: monster dump your stock file edit it then flash it back to the ecu. it seems dynojet and maptunerx have removed the speed limiter monster hasn't managed to crack:yikes:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

When it was pointed out to me that the Powervision was now available I looked and it does list some Spyders if you use the vehicle fitment search. They only list the RT for 2016-2017 and the F3 for 2015-2018. So I emailed them about the availability of one for my Spyder (2013 RT-S) and this was their response:
"The PowerVision has the ability to work on your model. The problem is that there are many stock files from Canam for each model and if we have not seen that file yet then we would need you to send in your ECM. Once we have that we can get you a tune to start with. We won't know if this is the case until you get the PV and connect to the vehicle though."
So they don't know if it will work until you plug it in, assuming they send you the right cable. Then if they don't have any tunes for it, I would have to send the ECU to them. They make up a generic tune and then you have to play with it. I read the pdf they have on how to use their software and it was like reading a DOS manual. I don't want to hook up a laptop to my spyder and spend hours playing and testing with no idea what I am doing.
I did email Steve at Monster and he answered all my questions and there are so many good reviews on here that my ECU in now on its way to Monster. I did ask him for dyno charts and he did send them to me. Stock verses stage 1 and 2, HP and torque.
169623
169624

Thanks for the Dyno maps …… However there are THREE lines and NONE are identified ……….. at least none that I can see …… Mike :ohyea:

[trikermutha]

So you're not sure they upgrade any electronics.. you're just guessing?
You have to send it in because the average joe simply doesn't have the computer hookup to make the adjustments... which is probably done with either BUDS or something similar to the Power Vision. There should be no need to upgrade any electronics in the ECU.. because it's already programmable.
Racing is fun, but really not a good judge of such improvements.. because the #1 variable in a race is the rider and the launch. That's why Dyno results are a good thing to look at instead.
I'm betting the Power Vision can do the same thing as these 'ship and flash' guys are doing... might even be able to copy their maps and use them.....

You will not be able to read your ECU with this tuner as we all thought. You can write to it but not read it on the Can am Models

[hypurone]

Thanks for the Dyno maps …… However there are THREE lines and NONE are identified ……….. at least none that I can see …… Mike :ohyea:

This has always been the challenge with Steve. What he says and sends can differ greatly and what you actually get is almost indecipherable.... I have dyno graphs that look like a 3yr old was let loose with the graphing paper! Even though I am happy with his Stage 1 that I have, I am hesitant to send it back for the "new and improved" Stage 1 much less the Stage 2 at this point.

[JS3535]

This has always been the challenge with Steve. What he says and sends can differ greatly and what you actually get is almost indecipherable.... I have dyno graphs that look like a 3yr old was let loose with the graphing paper! Even though I am happy with his Stage 1 that I have, I am hesitant to send it back for the "new and improved" Stage 1 much less the Stage 2 at this point.

What is this “new & improved” you speak of? I just sent mine back (still waiting on it’s return) am I going to be new & improved or old & worsen?

[Lew L]

I'm wondering the same thing??? Just installed the stage 1 flashed ECU in my 2014 RTS. Improved or not??? Enquiring minds want to know.

Lew L

[hypurone]

What is this “new & improved” you speak of? I just sent mine back (still waiting on it’s return) am I going to be new & improved or old & worsen?


I'm wondering the same thing??? Just installed the stage 1 flashed ECU in my 2014 RTS. Improved or not??? Enquiring minds want to know.

Lew L

In an email chain I received from Dennis who has just jumped to the Stage 2 but hasn't tested it yet, Steve stated he has made some improvements to the Stage 1 flash as well.... So most likely you both will end up with the newer version I would imagine. But who knows....

[308gunner]

In an email chain I received from Dennis who has just jumped to the Stage 2 but hasn't tested it yet, Steve stated he has made some improvements to the Stage 1 flash as well.... So most likely you both will end up with the newer version I would imagine. But who knows....

That's very interesting...its getting better..that's just stage I...imagine stage II.

[JS3535]

This is from an email conversation I had with Steve from Monster. If this doesn’t make you want to have yours done, then...I don’t know what will

The stock engine is lean for emissions. Besides fuel and timing for heat addressing, the stock cooling fan and engine keep temperatures at 214*F.
The high engine heat helps burn any fuel in engine. (Along with engine life) But thats why they run it so hot.
I knock that down for the engine to stay under 200*F. Even lower for stage 2.
The speed limit is raised on both stages - However, the VCM on each bike controls the top speed. Not ecu.
There is well over 30 remapping modifications in the ecu.
Cooling fan, Throttle Control, Torque Limiting, Ignition Timing, Fuel delivery, rev limits, speed limits etc.
An ecu controls the engine. Fuel, ignition timing along with external control of things like the electronic throttle and cooling fan.
The whole package is remapped.

Longevity is increased. The factory engine runs lean and hot. The remapping addresses both. Both the exhaust and the engine run much cooler than stock.
You can drive the piss out of it. The most important things for longevity are keeping your oil changed. And using good fuel with octane from 91 to 94.
The Bosch ecu is 2 pieces and is opened by removing the clips. This is how programming is accessed.
It is resealed better than stock. (Special silicone, not just putting clips back on)

Oh…. You will notice more power.

[WIDOWSSON]

My Stage 2 is scheduled to be here Monday. So SO SO SO ... So glad I decided to do this. Especially after reading this post.

[Mike,P]

Monster Fuel Injection did the stage 2 on my F3s and in 46 years of modifying cars n motorcycles I’ve never seen / felt such a high return on my investment on any single modification like this!!
Very satisfied customer here!!

[308gunner]

This is from an email conversation I had with Steve from Monster. If this doesn’t make you want to have yours done, then...I don’t know what will

The stock engine is lean for emissions. Besides fuel and timing for heat addressing, the stock cooling fan and engine keep temperatures at 214*F.
The high engine heat helps burn any fuel in engine. (Along with engine life) But thats why they run it so hot.
I knock that down for the engine to stay under 200*F. Even lower for stage 2.
The speed limit is raised on both stages - However, the VCM on each bike controls the top speed. Not ecu.
There is well over 30 remapping modifications in the ecu.
Cooling fan, Throttle Control, Torque Limiting, Ignition Timing, Fuel delivery, rev limits, speed limits etc.
An ecu controls the engine. Fuel, ignition timing along with external control of things like the electronic throttle and cooling fan.
The whole package is remapped.

Longevity is increased. The factory engine runs lean and hot. The remapping addresses both. Both the exhaust and the engine run much cooler than stock.
You can drive the piss out of it. The most important things for longevity are keeping your oil changed. And using good fuel with octane from 91 to 94.
The Bosch ecu is 2 pieces and is opened by removing the clips. This is how programming is accessed.
It is resealed better than stock. (Special silicone, not just putting clips back on)

Oh…. You will notice more power.

Thats why I had mine done..also..with the map..you can SAFELY change out your exhaust cat because its not running lean anymore...if you going to change out your exhaust cat, do a Re-map FIRST!!!...
Just remember to change your oil every 5000 miles, along with good quality gasoline. like you said....AND..watch your front drive sprocket for red dust!

[308gunner]

A friend of mine is having his remapped...ON A f-3 with A MANUAL 6 SPEED!!!!!. They are out there, but not many. Especially on the west coast...that thing is going to be very fast. He`s excited thats for sure.

[JS3535]

Get mine back today!!! But it’s raining!!! Don’t think I want to test it out in the rain (or do I?), might be a little crazy...or it might be fun.

[308gunner]

Get mine back today!!! But it’s raining!!! Don’t think I was to test it out in the rain (or do I?), might be a little crazy...or it might be fun.

DO IT....DO IT!!!! you know you want to!!...Hook up your go pro camera and do it!!

[canamjhb]

I was just looking over Monsters web site. It lists "Gen 1" flash for 2014+ and "Gen 2" flash for 2017+. So, I guess it makes a difference what year bike you have. Not the "official" word. Just what's on their web site..... Jim

[JS3535]

Well I did it....if I could of got traction I would let you know how it is. Roads were wet, Spyder was 90 degrees to the roadway, I got soaked...enough said until dry weather

[Lew L]

I cant wait!!!

[308gunner]

Well I did it....if I could of got traction I would let you know how it is. Roads were wet, Spyder was 90 degrees to the roadway, I got soaked...enough said until dry weather

I'm willing to bet..You enjoyed every minute of it!!...
Welcome to the darkside!!

[Dennis in Lodi]

Monster Fuel Injection did the stage 2 on my F3s and in 46 years of modifying cars n motorcycles I’ve never seen / felt such a high return on my investment on any single modification like this!!
Very satisfied customer here!!

Ditto with my experience. I have spent thousands on race bikes to get a measly five hp. But to keep this in perspective, it's not the 25% gain in performance across the rpm range from the flash, it's that we were ROBBED by can-am of what the bike should have been. Especially on the F3 platform. In today's market most manufacturers give the consumer at least 1.3 hp per 10 cc of displacement including Can-Am in their other products, Snowmobile, Water Craft, and UTVs. We Spyder owners, who have the highest price tag of ANY market product get LESS THAN .8 hp per 10 cc of displacement.
There is the rub for me.
Dennis
ps. I know most RT owners give a rats ass about getting more power. But, come on man my F3 deserved at least the basic market average hp!
even after the stage two flash it is still only about .95 hp per 10 cc of displacement.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ditto with my experience. I have spent thousands on race bikes to get a measly five hp. But to keep this in perspective, it's not the 25% gain in performance across the rpm range from the flash, it's that we were ROBBED by can-am of what the bike should have been. Especially on the F3 platform. In today's market most manufacturers give the consumer at least 1.3 hp per 10 cc of displacement including Can-Am in their other products, Snowmobile, Water Craft, and UTVs. We Spyder owners, who have the highest price tag of ANY market product get LESS THAN .8 hp per 10 cc of displacement.
There is the rub for me.
Dennis
ps. I know most RT owners give a rats ass about getting more power. But, come on man my F3 deserved at least the basic market average hp!
even after the stage two flash it is still only about .95 hp per 10 cc of displacement.

:agree:, with most of what you said ……. However there is a saying " speed kills " :lecturef_smilie: …… Not You or Me or a few other Talented folks … But BRP would have been Foolish to design a radical concept motorcycle that could go like a " raped ape " and put it in the hands of a " less than talented " General Public. - AT THE OUTSET !!!!….. After a slew of horrible accidents were widely reported by the Media. The Spyder might have been stopped in production ( or the Demise of BRP - period ) …...…… That being said, I am a strong Fan of the Monster Fuel product - forget the CAT delete thing … for what Monster is selling their Flash for it's a No Brainer to get it done ……. jmho , ….. Mike :ohyea:

[Michaelscs]

What am I missing? I can't find anything on Monster's website about Stage 2. There's a Gen 1 & Gen 2 for '17 and newer, but no mention of stage 2.
Also, no way to contact them except through their website. I find their site lacking much of any info. Am I blind?

[JS3535]

monsterfuelinjection@icloud.com

Just email with any questions. He responds quick & will answer any questions you have.

[Dennis in Lodi]

What am I missing? I can't find anything on Monster's website about Stage 2. There's a Gen 1 & Gen 2 for '17 and newer, but no mention of stage 2.
Also, no way to contact them except through their website. I find their site lacking much of any info. Am I blind?

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/home/canam/canam-spyder/1330cc/
Here is the link with the form to fill out. He expects you to circle at the top the words stage 1, or stage 2. I would hand write what you want directly on the form to be clear. Ask for stage two, ask for 50% throttle transition if you have hot rod blood

[Devious56]

monster can flash the ecu without splitting the ecu only in Canada though .why do monster request to send the ECU in. how would they flash it if you didn't:roflblack: monster dump your stock file edit it then flash it back to the ecu. it seems dynojet and maptunerx have removed the speed limiter monster hasn't managed to crack:yikes:

This is the first I've heard of a Spyder speed limiter, could you explain that to me. Thanks

[larryd]

Ditto with my experience. I have spent thousands on race bikes to get a measly five hp. But to keep this in perspective, it's not the 25% gain in performance across the rpm range from the flash, it's that we were ROBBED by can-am of what the bike should have been. Especially on the F3 platform. In today's market most manufacturers give the consumer at least 1.3 hp per 10 cc of displacement including Can-Am in their other products, Snowmobile, Water Craft, and UTVs. We Spyder owners, who have the highest price tag of ANY market product get LESS THAN .8 hp per 10 cc of displacement.
There is the rub for me.
Dennis
ps. I know most RT owners give a rats ass about getting more power. But, come on man my F3 deserved at least the basic market average hp!
even after the stage two flash it is still only about .95 hp per 10 cc of displacement.

Dennis, I really wish you would have stayed with your RT a little longer, and YOU & Steve would have gotten the 89T rear sprocket deal worked out...These heaver, double ridden & trailer pulling RT's could really benefit from this option...I have a 89T black sprocket & belt that I would loan to someone that would work with Steve to get this accomplished...larryd

[ddjim]

This is the first I've heard of a Spyder speed limiter, could you explain that to me. Thanks

at 105 mph for the f3s and 95 mph for the rt the ecu starts limiting throttle input you can still hit 125 mph but its slow getting there the faster you go the throttle progressively closes until you hit 125 mph limiting top speed

[Michaelscs]

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/home/canam/canam-spyder/1330cc/
Here is the link with the form to fill out. He expects you to circle at the top the words stage 1, or stage 2. I would hand write what you want directly on the form to be clear. Ask for stage two, ask for 50% throttle transition if you have hot rod blood

The info on that 'Flash Order Form' is the info he should have on one of the tabs on his website headers. It's the info I was looking for and would not have found without your help. I didn't look there because I wasn't ready to order until I could do more research.

Thanks!
Mike

[Michaelscs]

monsterfuelinjection@icloud.com

Just email with any questions. He responds quick & will answer any questions you have.

Where did you find his email? Pretty important selling tool I couldn't find on his site!

[jcthorne]

Trouble is getting different information each time he is asked. So much conflicting information here and vs real world experience. Lots of smoke and mirrors to go around. There is performance to be had, but take specifics with a whole shaker of salt.

[WIDOWSSON]

Can you explain what you are saying, please?

[canamjhb]

Does anyone know if the Monster flash is obviously detectable by a dealer when plugging the bike into BUDS? I assume a dealer would be able to detect when the bike has been operated abnormally such as higher RPM. But is a flashed ECU otherwise detectable if the bike was not subject to anything unusual.....? Jim

[Lew L]

The roads are ice free and it's almost 50* out there. The flashed ECU will be tested in a few minutes and I'll let you all know in an hour or so.
Lew L

[Dennis in Lodi]

Does anyone know if the Monster flash is obviously detectable by a dealer when plugging the bike into BUDS? I assume a dealer would be able to detect when the bike has been operated abnormally such as higher RPM. But is a flashed ECU otherwise detectable if the bike was not subject to anything unusual.....? Jim

Your question is valid. I traded in a flashed RT that has been up to 9,100 rpm. I was in a cold sweat as the BUDS were hooked up. A puzzled tech called over another tech as they BOTH looked at something. Later, I got the courage to ask the techs. He said they could see some misc error codes that happened during my ECU testing for Monster fuel. They also could see the 9,100 rpm and thought it must be incorrect. I told them a young child was sitting on my bike while it was idling and pulled the throttle wide open until the rev limit stopped it. They said that made sense as it would free spin from energy past the rev limit.
So it seems the flash itself is NOT detectable.
Having close to 20,000 miles on the stage one flash with two different Spyders I feel that there is not any power advantage or NEED to shift above the designed red line of our Spyders. I rarely have any need to shift above 7,200 rpm. To me it feels 7,200 rpm is where power and torque give my F3L all it needs to get flying.
I agree with jcthorne that it gets more confusing when trying to get a technical answer.
But, the proof is in the reviews that really big gains are happening across the entire rpm range. The Dyno chart that was shared with me show stock being about 95 hp at the rear wheel, stage 1 about 118 hp and stage 2 about 122 hp.
Hope this info helps.
Dennis

[Lew L]

Yes----- the ECU flash is worth every cent you pay.

1. Not haveing to wait the 20 or so seconds to start in very nice. Turn the key and stare your :spyder2:

2. Low speed is the same as before---below about 2500 rpm.

3. A very usable improvement above 3000rpm.

4. Above 6000 rpm ------ I don't know as I quickly ran out of safe testing space.:2thumbs:

5. More testing must take place

Lew L

[308gunner]

Your question is valid. I traded in a flashed RT that has been up to 9,100 rpm. I was in a cold sweat as the BUDS were hooked up. A puzzled tech called over another tech as they BOTH looked at something. Later, I got the courage to ask the techs. He said they could see some misc error codes that happened during my ECU testing for Monster fuel. They also could see the 9,100 rpm and thought it must be incorrect. I told them a young child was sitting on my bike while it was idling and pulled the throttle wide open until the rev limit stopped it. They said that made sense as it would free spin from energy past the rev limit.
So it seems the flash itself is NOT detectable.
Having close to 20,000 miles on the stage one flash with two different Spyders I feel that there is not any power advantage or NEED to shift above the designed red line of our Spyders. I rarely have any need to shift above 7,200 rpm. To me it feels 7,200 rpm is where power and torque give my F3L all it needs to get flying.
I agree with jcthorne that it gets more confusing when trying to get a technical answer.
But, the proof is in the reviews that really big gains are happening across the entire rpm range. The Dyno chart that was shared with me show stock being about 95 hp at the rear wheel, stage 1 about 118 hp and stage 2 about 122 hp.
Hope this info helps.
Dennis

From 95 (stock) to 122 horsepower thats a big jump in performance. Im going to assume the dyno testing was done on your RT(with a 79 tooth rear sprocket). The horsepower output is probably higher on a 89 rear tooth sprocket sport model. Add a Few more horsepower if your running a cat delete exhaust with a K & N air filter...all in all, thats a big jump in performance thats inexpensive and easy to do.

[308gunner]

Yes----- the ECU flash is worth every cent you pay.

1. Not haveing to wait the 20 or so seconds to start in very nice. Turn the key and stare your :spyder2:

2. Low speed is the same as before---below about 2500 rpm.

3. A very usable improvement above 3000rpm.

4. Above 6000 rpm ------ I don't know as I quickly ran out of safe testing space.:2thumbs:

5. More testing must take place

Lew L

Great to hear...Enjoy your NEW ride!!!

[jcthorne]

The Monster Flash does not remove the speed limiter even though Steve said it would. The flash works, no doubt, just don't put much stock in any specifics he gives you.

[308gunner]

The Monster Flash does not remove the speed limiter even though Steve said it would. The flash works, no doubt, just don't put much stock in any specifics he gives you.

Has anybody taken it to max. Speed and witnessed the cut off? On both stage I and stage II?..the stage II could have the limiter removed.

[Dennis in Lodi]

Has anybody taken it to max. Speed and witnessed the cut off? On both stage I and stage II?..the stage II could have the limiter removed.

Yes, Yes and Yes. I complained to Monster Fuel during testing that the speed restrictions need to be addressed. Like Jcthorne says, he claims it's possible then says it's a liability issue, then says it's complicated and overlaid in more that the ECU.
I have not tested stage 2 yet, It's winter here.
Dennis

[hypurone]

Has anybody taken it to max. Speed and witnessed the cut off? On both stage I and stage II?..the stage II could have the limiter removed.

I have never seen a "hard & fast" number of what the speed limiter actually is... I have seen info from between 115 all the way up to 127... I don't have the room to run it safely until runs out of breath or hits whatever the speed limiter is. But I'm pushing the latter number currently at 124 in approx 1/2 mile (126 minus the 2mph error on avg)... Not sure I can reach whatever it is with the drag that is induced from my Route 129....

[308gunner]

I have never seen a "hard & fast" number of what the speed limiter actually is... I have seen info from between 115 all the way up to 127... I don't have the room to run it safely until runs out of breath or hits whatever the speed limiter is. But I'm pushing the latter number currently at 124 in approx 1/2 mile (126 minus the 2mph error on avg)... Not sure I can reach whatever it is with the drag that is induced from my Route 129....

The max I went was 125.3 mph at 7400 rpm ..I ran out of freeway...at the end it was still climbing...that 1330 definitely had more still left in it..my cutoff is 8600..so who knows what the cutoff is... especially on a stage II..all in all I'm still happy with what I got...

[Dennis in Lodi]

The max I went was 125.3 mph at 7400 rpm ..I ran out of freeway...at the end it was still climbing...that 1330 definitely had more still left in it..my cutoff is 8600..so who knows what the cutoff is... especially on a stage II..all in all I'm still happy with what I got...

My information on speed limit restrictions must be dated. Until I got the stage 2 flash which I have not tested,, I have been using a stage one that was not the finale version. I kind of burned out with testing and just wanted to ride.
It seems to me that my F3 Limited has the same speed restrictions as the RT platform. I made Monster fuel aware of my suspicions and asked if they could see this in the files.

[derichio02]

I have a 17 F3-S SE6. Any drawback to flashing with a semi auto?

[Lew L]

None at all. :coffee: Ive only had mine out once with the Flashed ECU------- It's great and the best proformance mod for the $$$.

Lew L

PS; Some say the rear tire get used up a bit quicker:clap:

[Poseidon]

From 95 (stock) to 122 horsepower thats a big jump in performance. Im going to assume the dyno testing was done on your RT(with a 79 tooth rear sprocket). The horsepower output is probably higher on a 89 rear tooth sprocket sport model. Add a Few more horsepower if your running a cat delete exhaust with a K & N air filter...all in all, thats a big jump in performance thats inexpensive and easy to do.
Sprocket size is the equivalent of changing gear ratios. It has no effect on HP output.

[308gunner]

You're right Poseidon...but...the rear sprocket size does have an effect the spyders low to mid range torque ..the power off of the line (In combination with the stage II re-map)...that's why I mentioned it...the RT has 79 tooth sprocket and the sport has 89 tooth sprocket..which is better.

[dolittle]

Hi all
I have a 2017 rt with 9,000 miles sway bar and cat delete, i had the stage 2 done and it was warm to day and got out for a nice ride it runs way better then stock very smooth and the power is right there at a slit move of the throtle, i also think it shifts better. Some people say it jumps after 5000 pm but i dont know about that but it sure doesnt slow down.Will tell more when the weather stays warm. I had the flash done in the states at wick-it performance. I didnt have any trouble with them and quick return.

[WIDOWSSON]

OMG... Had enough time to put my ECU back on and take her out for a quick ride around the corner. QUICK IT WAS. This is the machine I thought I was purchasing in 2015. Satisfied so far. Getting oil change and really put it to the test on the highway.

[308gunner]

OMG... Had enough time to put my ECU back on and take her out for a quick ride around the corner. QUICK IT WAS. This is the machine I thought I was purchasing in 2015. Satisfied so far. Getting oil change and really put it to the test on the highway.

AWESOME!!!....let us know how your NEW spyder performs on the highway.

[WIDOWSSON]

Will keep you posted. Most definitely going to need a new back tire. But going to run this one until then.

[308gunner]

Will keep you posted. Most definitely going to need a new back tire. But going to run this one until then.

Rear tires are not expensive to replace..so youre good there...did you get stage I or II?

[308gunner]

Will keep you posted. Most definitely going to need a new back tire. But going to run this one until then.

Rear tires are not expensive to replace..so youre good there...did you get stage I or II?

[larryd]

Sprocket size is the equivalent of changing gear ratios. It has no effect on HP output.

Poseidon, You are exactly correct...And that was the exact way BRP chose to increase the performance of the F3's...I'm sure BRP could have reflashed the ECM for more performance...but they took the safest and easiest way to get it to out perform the other models...And I would like to see this happen to the 1330 RT's...larryd

[JS3535]

Well....I’m disappointed. I expected more with all the hype. There is slightly more power & seems to run a bit better but not as I imgained it would be. Maybe stage 2? Put about 20 miles on it so maybe it will get better. I remember when it was stock & I took it into the dealer for them to replace the throttle assmy. When I got it back it was slower & not as responsive, it took awhile but it slowly came back to normal. Maybe the ECU learns if you drive like an old man or a bat out of hell & adjusts accordingly. Whatever it may be, I hope it does get better. Going for a 400 mile ride this weekend so
I will report back.

[WIDOWSSON]

Stage 2

[WIDOWSSON]

Rear tires are not expensive to replace..so youre good there...did you get stage I or II?

Stage 2

[Geep]

Well....I’m disappointed. I expected more with all the hype. There is slightly more power & seems to run a bit better but not as I imgained it would be. Maybe stage 2? Put about 20 miles on it so maybe it will get better. I remember when it was stock & I took it into the dealer for them to replace the throttle assmy. When I got it back it was slower & not as responsive, it took awhile but it slowly came back to normal. Maybe the ECU learns if you drive like an old man or a bat out of hell & adjusts accordingly. Whatever it may be, I hope it does get better. Going for a 400 mile ride this weekend so
I will report back.

Anxiously awaiting that report...but doesn’t their website say 2 tankfuls of gas to fully “learn” new configuration?

[JS3535]

I hope that is the case. I didn’t look much at the website, can you provide a link to where it states that?

[Lew L]

Had mine out today for about 20 miles. Likeing it more every time.
Lew L

[Peteoz]

That’s interesting, JS.....my advice from Jase was to take it easy for the first 20km, and then let it rip...... which I did. There was no “2 tankfulls” mentioned......and I find the powerband and throttle response significantly improved. I wonder where the difference lies with yours? (Jase put a stage 2 in mine because I’m a nice guy :ohyea: ) and there are no downsides for me :2thumbs:

Pete



Well....I’m disappointed. I expected more with all the hype. There is slightly more power & seems to run a bit better but not as I imgained it would be. Maybe stage 2? Put about 20 miles on it so maybe it will get better. I remember when it was stock & I took it into the dealer for them to replace the throttle assmy. When I got it back it was slower & not as responsive, it took awhile but it slowly came back to normal. Maybe the ECU learns if you drive like an old man or a bat out of hell & adjusts accordingly. Whatever it may be, I hope it does get better. Going for a 400 mile ride this weekend so
I will report back.

[Dennis in Lodi]

That’s interesting, JS.....my advice from Jase was to take it easy for the first 20km, and then let it rip...... which I did. There was no “2 tankfulls” mentioned......and I find the powerband and throttle response significantly improved. I wonder where the difference lies with yours? (Jase put a stage 2 in mine because I’m a nice guy :ohyea: ) and there are no downsides for me :2thumbs:

Pete

Yes, this is important. You have to go through the full throttle range to red line.
Dennis

[JS3535]

Does anyone know how the ECO button affects the flash. I turned the Eco off on mine the day I bought it & it hasn’t been on since. I don’t even want to turn it back on with the flash to see what it does. Just curious if anyone knows. If it gives you ludicrous speed I might try it.

[hypurone]

Does anyone know how the ECO button affects the flash. I turned the Eco off on mine the day I bought it & it hasn’t been on since. I don’t even want to turn it back on with the flash to see what it does. Just curious if anyone knows. If it gives you ludicrous speed I might try it.

It won't do anything for you power/speed wise. It is only there to "supposedly" increase fuel economy by prompting you to shift sooner (more economical rpm) and possibly retarding the timing some but I'm not 100% on the that...