cat delete negatives?

[SailnDive]

Are there any cat delete negatives? I ordered one yesterday. I guess I should have asked this before I ordered;).

[the_bandit]

Only negative thought I have... is that I sould've bought one sooner! ;)

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Are there any cat delete negatives? I ordered one yesterday. I guess I should have asked this before I ordered;).
Ask first - buy later :lecturef_smilie: ........... The only two I can think of is the Price if bought new , and if you didn't buy the baffle it will be a little louder ..... But you won't miss the 20 lbs of weight or the heat they produce ....... Mike :thumbup:

[Mazo EMS2]

Really depends on what you're putting it on, and of course what you expect from it. I put one on our 2016 RTs, with the 1330 of course, and I was hoping for a better sound....I didn't get what I hoped for:sour:....BUT, I do think there was a little bit of performance boost. The only negative I found (smelled) was fumes. I noticed more exhaust fumes, especially when pulling our trailer. I sold it and went back to stock....no more fumes

[Chupaca]

I think most that have gone that route have been to try to get that sewing machine sound to be more like a motorcycle. The elimination of heat would be the best effect the weight is not that much of a benefit. Now there are several suppliers and some have added a baffle for sound. Youtube has some clips you can listen to or find someone in your ryding group that has made the change to hear the sound....:thumbup:

[jaherbst]

None here on either RT.

Jack

[nslowmotion]

​More exhaust fumes when you pull a trailer

[2dogs]

Install can be a b****h if you don't have a spring hook. My butt dyno tells me there's a little more torque when I installed the baffle but that could be because my wallet is a little less heavy. I think pound for pound and dollar for dollar your best performance up grade would be an ECU remap. Penny wise, what you spent for the cat delete pipe, is only the cost of a couple rounds of drinks away from the price of an ECU up grade. :dontknow: Hey, I did exactly what you're doing so just go for it and don't look back. :2thumbs:

[robtdonna]

I had the bypass on the 2014 RT. Didn't care for the sound and wife didn't either, so put the cat back on when I sold it and then sold the pipe.

I'm happy with the stock set up soundwise on my new F3-T, but I do feel some heat on that side and that stock cat is nothing but a huge heatsink IMO, so was thinking about the by-pass again.

If the heat proves to be an issue this summer, then I'm thinking about a by-pass and some sort of custom muffler, maybe a Supertrapp set up that can be tuned. We shall see.


I think most that have gone that route have been to try to get that sewing machine sound to be more like a motorcycle. The elimination of heat would be the best effect the weight is not that much of a benefit. Now there are several suppliers and some have added a baffle for sound. Youtube has some clips you can listen to or find someone in your ryding group that has made the change to hear the sound....:thumbup:

[SpyderAnn01]

I love the bypass with baffle and the stock muffler. I tried the bypass with a Two Bros on my RT and it was too loud for me and I also passed on the one piece bypass/exhaust for the same reason.

[fatenhappy]

I'm always a little bemused that 'some' seem to have fierce opposition to the 15 to 20lbs or so of weight and associate heat that's generated by a Cat set up ... no matter what type of vehicle its on.

Their whole design and function is to burn off unburnt fuel and stop the same from getting out into the atmoshere ...

Love them or loath them (and I am happy to say I place myself firmly in the latter - but each to their own) ... they need to be the way they current are designed with current technologies being what they are. Otherwise how can they achieve their design parameters ?

I am just about to do a total exhaust replacement from behind my 02 sensor primary pipe on my 1330, to help the little puppy breath a whole lot more easily. But the big proviso is that it can't be ridiculously loud in doing so ... (I don't tow a trailer either so I don't have those constraints) ... Otherwise I see nothing but pluses for the replacement ...

Personally, I find the price being asked for the vast majority of the simple 'S' shaped manufactured (plain versions) of 'Cat Delete' piping to be absolutely gluttonous and ridiculous. That's also another reason I am going to a motorcycle exhaust 'specialist' that will on site manufacture the complete system I require. So NO I see nothing but pluses if the Cat delete is done properly - but again, each to their own !

[ThreeWheels]

Negatives ??
Well...............
Other than the fact that it's illegal ?
None that I can think of.

[SailnDive]

Personally, I find the price being asked for the vast majority of the simple 'S' shaped manufactured (plain versions) of 'Cat Delete' piping to be absolutely gluttonous and ridiculous. That's also another reason I am going to a motorcycle exhaust 'specialist' that will on site manufacture the complete system I require. So NO I see nothing but pluses if the Cat delete is done properly - but again, each to their own !

The workman ship of the Lamonster pipe is excellent. As a welder I am totally aware of the difficulty in producing this level of fabrication. The pipe is totally worth the price being charged. Otherwise I would have made one myself. BTW the part being replaced by the pipe is not a Catalytic Converter.

[KX5062]

................


BTW the part being replaced by the pipe is not a Catalytic Converter.


Oh???

[jroberts650]

Not sure what year RT you're installing one on but I had a bypass on a 2010 with the Vtwin and stock muffler. It did sound better and you could smell more exhaust fumes. The thing I didn't like was it made the stock muffler sound more raspy especially right at the rpm where you shift up. It sounded good when decelerating but I just didn't care for the raspiness. I did notice a little more mid range torque but I felt as though I lost some grunt when taking off from a stop.

If you have a 1330 it may not have that sound, I haven't those in person. If you're going for sound a muffler is the best way to go.

[ofdave]

BTW the part being replaced by the pipe is not a Catalytic Converter.

OK, so what is it then?

[Don'tPanic]

If your bike is still covered under warranty, any modifications to the exhaust system might void it.
Oh, yeah, it's also illegal.

[Don'tPanic]

You can read the manual or call any dealer. Akropovic is fine because it's "approved" by BRP - read between the lines. Any "unapproved" modification will void the warranty - it's written in the warranty card. I didn't come up with it, I wasn't even using my memory, I just copied from the manual :) (attached below)

Now, to your other point: "exhaust mods are done downstream of the O2 sensor there is no effect on the engine controls and therefore no warranty concern" - is this an official statement from BRP??? could you please post a link?

Exhaust is specifically designed to provide "back-pressure" and computer takes this into consideration. To check this - remove everything after the O2 sensor and try to ride your bike - the Nanny will freak out, and the torque curve will be completely different.

Now, to your last point: "Attempts at fear mongering based on zero data are not appreciated" - this just pisses me off. Google it, you'll find plenty of cases where a warranty claim was denied because of modified exhaust. Here's some of them:
http://www.can-amforum.com/forums/can-am-outlander/46423-what-voids-warranty.html
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/458147-aftermarket-exhaust-void-warantee/

Listen, I'm not saying don't do it. Do it if you want to, just be aware of the consequences. I'll probably do it myself when my warranty expires.


The warranty part is absolutely untrue. CanAm also sells Akropovic exhaust upgrades as well.

Pretty much as long as exhaust mods are done downstream of the O2 sensor there is no effect on the engine controls and therefore no warranty concern.

LOTS of Spyders have primary muffler bypass pipes installed and there has not been even ONE instance of warranty refusal by BRP reported for having one installed. Not one.

Attempts at fear mongering based on zero data are not appreciated.

160532 160533

[Don'tPanic]

I will start by saying that experience in this area has shown differently than you allude to. We disagree.

Neither of the two warranty 'examples' are dealing with Spyders. They are dealing with off road vehicles. They are also examples of service writers at dealerships pontificating on things they know little about. We have not seen a single example where BRP, not a dealer, has denied warranty for the use of a primary muffler bypass pipe. NOT ONE. In a specific example, MANY 2013 RT owners installed them before the fire recall in attempts to reduce exhaust heat. BRP PAID for many of them as part of the settlements after the recall was announced. They paid for both of mine and allowed them to remain on the bike after the recall was done.

We have laws dealing with the use of aftermarket parts. The warranty is not void unless they CAUSE a problem. Generally, BRP has been very good on these areas. MUCH better than most car companies. My statement about the 02 sensor was a generalization that most aftermarket exhaust systems downstream of the 02 sensor will have no negative effect on the bike and therefore no warranty concern. No doubt there may be an extreme example where it might not be true. But the primary muffler bypass pipe we are speaking of in this thread has been proven to work well and not cause any warranty concerns.

Do what makes you happy.

Dude, I wasn't alluding, agreeing, or disagreeing to/with anything, I just copied from the manual, to answer SailnDive's question. ...AND I probably will install a CAT-delete after my warranty expires to be on the safe side :)

Alright, a serious question then: how do you pass emissions test without a CAT?


P.S. I can't always do what makes me happy - sometimes I have to do what makes my wife happy. (I highly recommend this practice) :)

[Dennis in Lodi]

Can ANYONE show me supporting test data that shows any increase in performance anywhere across the entire rpm range that a cat delete pipe with or without a baffle nets any measurable gains?
ALL of my exhaust configuration testing has shown that there is hesitation and power loss off the line through about 4,000 rpm with the installation of a cat delete pipe.
Now, I have an RLS delete with a resonator that I had to modify. Currently, I am now using a total of three in line baffles to best match the pressure loss by removing the cat.
At best, I am now equal to the performance of the original cat in place with an open exhaust pipe.
I will acknowledge that there is something happening north of 7,000 that should be measurable for performance improvement over the cat. But, when you factor in the hesitation off the line, flat until 4k, and how far away 7k is as usable street power, a cat delete is a hard sell as a performance upgrade.
No more butt Dyno or feels like more.
This is nothing to do with a flash, just apples to apples cat or delete comparison.
Show me the money / Dyno that supports a cat delete provides power gains any where in the rpm range.

Dennis

[crazycanuck]

after reading all of this I am still going to install the new exhaust with the cat delete pipe :opps:

[UtahPete]

If your bike is still covered under warranty, any modifications to the exhaust system might void it. Oh, yeah, it's also illegal.
Illegal and irresponsible if you care anything about the environment. And, I wonder about that warranty issue...

[johnsimion]

1) If it's not a catalytic converter, why are people referring to it as a "cat bypass" or "cat delete"?
2) If removal doesn't affect the engine's performance or emissions, why did several people in this thread refer to increased fumes?

I find this from https://www.riderzlaw.com/motorcycle-info/motorcycle-laws/noise-and-emissions/. You can argue if you want but these are other lawyers talking, not just me:
Many riders are familiar with the idea that a “modified exhaust” is illegal. This is an over-statement, and is not entirely accurate. It is illegal to modify a motorcycle in a way that makes it become non-compliant with EPA emissions requirements. This rule has not changed since 1980.
It is not illegal to change a motorcycle’s exhaust system. However, the new exhaust must still be in compliance with EPA standards. Many after-market exhausts are not. Which raises the question of how people get away with putting on after-market exhausts that do not meet regulations? The answer is a lack of enforcement.
In fact, enforcement of the modified exhausts rule is lax, to say the least. That is because it is up to states to enforce it. As a result, many motorcycles on the road today are technically not within compliance. Several states, most notably California, have considered laws that would require smog and emissions checks for motorcycles (just like they already do with automobiles).

[Don'tPanic]

It is NOT illegal to replace the primary muffler. There is no part on the Spyder actually called a catalytic converter.

See user manual below ->

160581 160582

[Don'tPanic]

1) If it's not a catalytic converter, why are people referring to it as a "cat bypass" or "cat delete"?

...other than it sounding better than "muff-bypass" ? :)

[jcthorne]

I give up. Not going to argue the point any further. You do what you want with your bike.

Many have used the primary muffler bypass pipes to great effect and have had absolutely no negative effects to the bike or warranty coverage. If its not for you for what ever reason, sound, environmental concern, whatever, then dont do it.

[KX5062]

Illegal and irresponsible if you care anything about the environment. And, I wonder about that warranty issue...


That's another myth too. :rolleyes: