Brake fluid

[lewisalice]

Do you think the brake fluid really needs to be changed every 2 years like it says in the maintenance schedule?

[pegasus1300]

Yes I really do. Mine was changed out late and it was really ugly. I am on 2 years now and it is again looking ugly. DOT3 and DOT4 are hygroscopic,they attract water which makes them boil at a lower temperature with corresponding loss of brake power.

[Highwayman2013]

Check the color of fresh DOT 4 against the fluid in the reservoir. Mine was 2 years old and it was very dark.

[oldguyinTX]

Mine was absolutely filthy at 3 years, to the point where it might have clogged the brake lines. I would say get it done.

[JayBros]

Everything Paul says about DOT 3 and 4 brake fluid is correct. I doubt most Spyder riders would be pushing their bikes hard enough to experience boiling brake fluid but that water build up in the fluid can also cause problems with seals and just generally cruds up the system. Two year flushes ensure you maintain a good, clean system. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish with your investment.

[lewisalice]

I got no problem spending the money was just curious why every 2 years

[Highwayman2013]

I got no problem spending the money was just curious why every 2 years
It is pretty much an industry standard, my other bikes also call for 2 years

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm not even suggesting you don't change every two years , .... but this is a real life experience, my 2003 Toyt. Tacoma had the fluid changed in 2006 @ 41,567 mi. ( By the previous owner )....... It's now 3-22-18 ( 12 years later :yikes: ) @ 235,000+ mi. and that fluid is still in the system ...... I have topped it off ( about once a year ) but the brakes work fine and there haven't been any leaks..... .........On another topic, many folks here report they change their wheel bearings at EVERY tire change...... yet the amount of BEARING failures reported here , well I can't remember reading about one.......... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

I'm not even suggesting you don't change every two years , .... but this is a real life experience, my 2003 Toyt. Tacoma had the fluid changed in 2006 @ 41,567 mi. ( By the previous owner )....... It's now 3-22-18 ( 12 years later :yikes: ) @ 235,000+ mi. and that fluid is still in the system ...... I have topped it off ( about once a year ) but the brakes work fine and there haven't been any leaks..... .........On another topic, many folks here report they change their wheel bearings at EVERY tire change...... yet the amount of BEARING failures reported here , well I can't remember reading about one.......... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:


Mike, I strongly disagree with what you are trying to say here. The 12 year old fluid in your Toyota is downright dangerous and I don't want to be on the road with you. On other topics you have been one of the most conservative safety proponents in this forum. I was quite surprised at this post.

In a Spyder, the fluid is SPENT by two years. It gets HOT and not just from the brakes, look where your master cylinder and lines run. Its absorbs water and becomes compressible. A large percentage of the 'Brake Failure' warnings on Spyders are from spent brake fluid.

If the bike gets driven much at all, at 2 yrs the fluid is DONE, at 3 yrs its doing damage. If you do the work yourself, it costs less than $10 to flush the system with fresh fluid. At a dealer its less than 1 hour labor. Its also a necessary part of a brake job.

[PW2013STL]

I totaly agree with the 2 years. I did mine at three years and I put the old in a glass jar. I could not see through the jar as it was so contaminated. I now follow the two year rule.

[Jetfixer]

Does anyone know how much new fluid is required to do a complete flush? (2015 RTL) Is one bottle enough? The service manual and BUDS manual do not specify quantity.

[KX5062]

Does anyone know how much new fluid is required to do a complete flush? (2015 RTL) Is one bottle enough? The service manual and BUDS manual do not specify quantity.


One bottle is plenty.

Part of the reason for the need for fluid change is the braking system is an open system. Meaning the master cylinder reservoir is open to the ambient air by way of a (large) vent in the cap. It is also positioned low and to the rear of the bike, which allows a lot of intrusion of moisture and dust kicked up from the rear tire. The F3 is completely different.

At the very least, you need to get a suction device of some sort and remove the old fluid from the master cylinder reservoir and replace it with new fresh fluid. Being careful to not take the fluid too low and expose the intake port to air. The reservoir is the source of the contamination. The fluid in the lines is relatively unaffected. I'm not recommending this per se, but it is an option.

DOT3 absorbs less water than DOT4, but has a lower boiling point. However, there are several brands of low moisture absorbing DOT4 brake fluid on the market, which is what I recommend.

Do not use DOT5 or DOT5.1 unless you know the difference between all of them.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, I strongly disagree with what you are trying to say here. The 12 year old fluid in your Toyota is downright dangerous and I don't want to be on the road with you. On other topics you have been one of the most conservative safety proponents in this forum. I was quite surprised at this post.

In a Spyder, the fluid is SPENT by two years. It gets HOT and not just from the brakes, look where your master cylinder and lines run. Its absorbs water and becomes compressible. A large percentage of the 'Brake Failure' warnings on Spyders are from spent brake fluid.

If the bike gets driven much at all, at 2 yrs the fluid is DONE, at 3 yrs its doing damage. If you do the work yourself, it costs less than $10 to flush the system with fresh fluid. At a dealer its less than 1 hour labor. Its also a necessary part of a brake job.
:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:..........JC - did you read my first sentence or just decided to forget I said it ????:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::bangh ead: and How can you KNOW what I was " trying to say " do you have a CRYSTAL BALL ?????? ........... Mike :thumbup:

[Navydad]

Brake fluid draws moisture which can cause corrosion to the internals of the system, not a good thing. I restore old bikes for giggles and one thing that ALWAYS needs rebuilt or replaced is the master cylinders and calipers because of the corrosion and rock hard crud caused by neglect.

[jcthorne]

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:..........JC - did you read my first sentence or just decided to forget I said it ????:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::bangh ead: and How can you KNOW what I was " trying to say " do you have a CRYSTAL BALL ?????? ........... Mike :thumbup:

Your presented 'real life experience' is in error. The 12 year old fluid in your Toyota that you claim is 'fine' is not. Its contaminated and unsafe. You present this experience as an alternative view to the requirement of changing fluid every two years.

Your intent was clear and its outright wrong and dangerous to suggest folks not change the fluid. You not changing fluid in your Toyota is negligent and advertising it on a public forum....well.

[lewisalice]

Mike, I strongly disagree with what you are trying to say here. The 12 year old fluid in your Toyota is downright dangerous and I don't want to be on the road with you. On other topics you have been one of the most conservative safety proponents in this forum. I was quite surprised at this post.

In a Spyder, the fluid is SPENT by two years. It gets HOT and not just from the brakes, look where your master cylinder and lines run. Its absorbs water and becomes compressible. A large percentage of the 'Brake Failure' warnings on Spyders are from spent brake fluid.

If the bike gets driven much at all, at 2 yrs the fluid is DONE, at 3 yrs its doing damage. If you do the work yourself, it costs less than $10 to flush the system with fresh fluid. At a dealer its less than 1 hour labor. Its also a necessary part of a brake job.
I do not know anyone who does the brake fluid on there cars unless the master cylinder or caliper brakes so you need to stay off the road because according to you most cars are unsafe. Now my Spyder is going on 5 years and I just noticed about the fluid change but guess what the spyder brakes are running great. I will at my next service get it done.

[GearHd]

I changed mine at 3 years and 10k miles and the stuff looked about like drain oil. I went though almost two 12oz bottles before I got everything to run nice and clean. I sucked the reservoirs empty with vacuum bleeder first, topped up with clean fluid, then pumped clean fluid through until I pulled clean fluid through each bleeder.

[jcthorne]

I do not know anyone who does the brake fluid on there cars unless the master cylinder or caliper brakes so you need to stay off the road because according to you most cars are unsafe. Now my Spyder is going on 5 years and I just noticed about the fluid change but guess what the spyder brakes are running great. I will at my next service get it done.

Suppose I should not be surprised how many folks completely neglect basic maintenance on their vehicles. I assure you, mine do not run 12 years without a brake fluid flush.

[GearHd]

I do not know anyone who does the brake fluid on there cars unless the master cylinder or caliper brakes so you need to stay off the road because according to you most cars are unsafe. Now my Spyder is going on 5 years and I just noticed about the fluid change but guess what the spyder brakes are running great. I will at my next service get it done.

That's usually the mentality of the people who think they can do their own service but are too scared or don't have the knowledge to venture out from the standard oil change. If you were to bring your vehicle back to the dealership for its regular services they'd most definitely be changing your brake fluid every 2 years. Back in day before all the complex braking systems you could get away with that stuff, now a days you can't. Look at the HUGE Harley recall from people that weren't properly changing their brake fluid.

[lewisalice]

That's usually the mentality of the people who think they can do their own service but are too scared or don't have the knowledge to venture out from the standard oil change. If you were to bring your vehicle back to the dealership for its regular services they'd most definitely be changing your brake fluid every 2 years. Back in day before all the complex braking systems you could get away with that stuff, now a days you can't. Look at the HUGE Harley recall from people that weren't properly changing their brake fluid.
I never service my own bike always bring it to the dealer

[GearHd]

I never service my own bike always bring it to the dealer

Then if the shop is actually reputable they'll change the brake fluid every 2 years as it's part of the maintenance schedule.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Your presented 'real life experience' is in error. ... The only way it could be " in ERROR " is if it wasn't TRUE - are you saying I'm a Liar :yikes:..... The 12 year old fluid in your Toyota that you claim is 'fine' is not..... I NEVER said the fluid is/was FINE .... I said my BRAKES were FINE ( as in how they felt !!!!!!!............ Its contaminated and unsafe..... It probably is ...... You present this experience as an alternative view to the requirement of changing fluid every two years, ....I didn't present any such thing , this is ALL in your MIND !!!!!! ...... in fact My Spyders brake fluid was changed last year @ 24,267 miles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your intent was clear and its outright wrong and dangerous to suggest folks not change the fluid....WRONG again JC - my FIRST sentence in my post was - " I'M NOT EVEN SUGGESTING YOU DON'T CHANGE ( meaning brake fluid which is what the thread is about ) EVERY TWO YEARS" ...........:banghead: You not changing fluid in your Toyota is negligent and advertising it on a public forum....well.....Probably but - ADVERTISING - I don't see it that way, I stated an Experience ............ see above in RED type ....... Mike :thumbup:

[teninospyder]

I'll admit to being a little perplexed here, but I'll tell my story in hopes I don't get shot over it. I'll refrain from responding further after this post.
2 years came and went on my 2014 RTL without me even thinking about changing brake fluid. I worried more about oil changes and the like, but because of my experience with cars I didn't think about this being an issue. Now it is going into 4 years and at 20,000 miles I finally changed the rear pads but the fronts are still around 50%. I got concerned and looked at flushing the fluids, however I didn't because of NOT seeing any appreciable change in color of the fluid. I'm looking right now at a bottle if Lipton Rasberry Ice Tea on my desk, and it is darker and more yellow than my brake fluid is. I do not see any darkening or specs in the fluid to concern me either. I don't recall even topping it off over these years - but don't know if the dealer did during any of the oil changes. I do know he didn't bleed the brakes at any time. To finish.....the brakes "seem" to work fine - even in a few panic stops I needed to make along the way. I will continue to keep an eye on this, but until I see a reason.....................

Like I said.....Just my story.

[Easy Rider]

It is pretty much an industry standard, my other bikes also call for 2 years

That's to cover their butts......partly.

On a vehicle without ABS or stability control, I think that is WAY overkill.

On a vehicle WITH ABS and stability control, like Spyders with the "nanny", I think you should follow that recommendation......but no need to be paranoid about it.

[Easy Rider]

Its absorbs water and becomes compressible.

Water is no more compressible than oil (brake fluid) unless it boils into steam.

And since the brake systems are supposed to be sealed........how does that water get IN there ??
Edit: I believe that you will find a flexible rubber diaphragm under that MS cap, which provides a seal (mostly) between the fluid and the atmosphere.

I am not trolling for a pointless argument here; that is a serious question.

[JayBros]

The caps on the master cylinder on my bike each have a vent that if not properly positioned, rearward when the cap is tightened, will ooze fluid onto onto the top of the reservoir as there are slits in the diaphrams. If properly oriented when tight will allow air into the reservoir.

[Navydad]

Water is no more compressible than oil (brake fluid) unless it boils into steam.

And since the brake systems are supposed to be sealed........how does that water get IN there ??
Edit: I believe that you will find a flexible rubber diaphragm under that MS cap, which provides a seal (mostly) between the fluid and the atmosphere.

I am not trolling for a pointless argument here; that is a serious question.


We read where the ethanol in gas will draw water, brake fluid does the same and very quickly. Brake systems are not sealed if there are any rubber lines in the system. Hard to believe but the moisture will get into the system through rubber lines and seals as they age. When my Spyder gets new braked fluid this year it will also get new stainless and teflon lines installed. I buy my line and fittings to make my own on my restorations and I will do the same on my Spyder. As far as the boiling part, lots of folks think they will never ride and brake hard enough to cause this problem. You need to realize that it doesn't take much to generate enough heat to vaporize the water in the brake system and even an "easy" rider can have it happen. I am amazed at how much $$$ folks will drop on seats, windshields, and other doo dads and then can't wait to show them off, but when it comes to maintaining the systems that keep us safe and on the road they are always looking for the cheapest way out or a way to extend the service intervals. That thousand dollar seat is gonna get awful messy when you jump on the brake pedal and nothing happens.

[Tbone57]

Yes I really do. Mine was changed out late and it was really ugly. I am on 2 years now and it is again looking ugly. DOT3 and DOT4 are hygroscopic,they attract water which makes them boil at a lower temperature with corresponding loss of brake power.
Good morning, I have a 2018 RT and the fluid is black, does it matter on what brand of dot 4 fluid I use? Xps is around 17 bucks a can...and options? Not looking for a cheap fix but anything comparable to xps ?
Thank you
Terry

[Baron14y]

Its absorbs water and becomes compressible When did water become compressible?:dontknow:

[jcthorne]

Water as a pure liquid is not compressible. Water in suspension in glycol based brake fluid is VERY compressible. It traps microscopic air bubbles as well when it wet. They do not settle out.

[jcthorne]

Good morning, I have a 2018 RT and the fluid is black, does it matter on what brand of dot 4 fluid I use? Xps is around 17 bucks a can...and options? Not looking for a cheap fix but anything comparable to xps ?
Thank you
Terry

Any good name brand DOT4 fluid should be fine. We use Castrol.

[Tbone57]

Thanks, any thing I need to know ...tricks or things to check?

[Tbone57]

Are you using synthetic or regular?

[jcthorne]

All DOT4 is 'synthetic'. Just some market it that way and some do not. Boiling point is the more important number but lubrication is not. All name brand DOT4 is pretty good stuff.

[Little Blue]

:coffee: I just purchased Cam Am XPS Dot 4 Brake Fluid from my Dealer (10/12/19). A 12 ounce bottle was only $10.99 + Tax.
YES, I could have purchased a different brand, but I like to give my Dealer business so they will be around down the road.....:thumbup:

[PW2013STL]

Just finished changing the brake fluid on my 2015 that I purchased used in June of 2018. I do not know when it last was changed. The fluid was darkened, but not black like my 2014 RT was when I changed it after 3 years.
I was pleased to find that it was easier to do on the F3 than the RT.