Doctors in Canada think they make too much and others make too little

[UtahPete]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/07/hundreds-of-canadian-doctors-demand-lower-salaries/?undefined=&utm_term=.7c55c42df22a&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

What do you think about this? Shouldn't be too controversial, right? :ohyea:

[kep-up]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/07/hundreds-of-canadian-doctors-demand-lower-salaries/?undefined=&utm_term=.7c55c42df22a&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

What do you think about this? Shouldn't be too controversial, right? :ohyea:

And this is the health care system the US should emulate???

[UtahPete]

And this is the health care system the US should emulate???
Did I say that? I don't think we should emulate anyone else's system. I think we need a uniquely American solution to the looming disaster.

[canamjhb]

The government sets the salaries of doctors.......? HMMMMMM

[wyliec]

My dr. once told me, if you want to control the cost of health insurance you need to start at the top of the food chain, the healthcare insurance company execs. He told me his yearly income and his neighbor's income who was an exec for a healthcare ins. co. I told him he needed to be an exec, and not a dr.

UP knowing what I know of you, you'll probably tell me this was not what you were looking for.:dontknow:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Dr. salaries should be regulated

[Bob Denman]

The nightmare that is our healthcare system will not be fixed until:
1. Tort reform is enacted.
2. Pharmaceutical Companies are actually forced to compete for our dollars
3. Ditto for the health insurance Companies
4. The paperwork and procedures necessary to comply with regulations is streamlined


And you thought that School Safety was tough?? :dontknow:

nojoke

[UtahPete]

My dr. once told me, if you want to control the cost of health insurance you need to start at the top of the food chain, the healthcare insurance company execs. He told me his yearly income and his neighbor's income who was an exec for a healthcare ins. co. I told him he needed to be an exec, and not a dr.

UP knowing what I know of you, you'll probably tell me this was not what you were looking for.:dontknow:
I'm not looking for anything other than an intelligent discussion.

[Gordy]

i find this hard to believe

[kep-up]

Dr. salaries should be regulated

Is YOUR salary regulated? If so, by whom?

How about regulating everything in America?

Then our country could be known as the USSSA. (United Soviet Socialist States of America, for those of us who are a bit challenged)

C'mon people, let's not get stupid, waddaya think?!

[UtahPete]

Is YOUR salary regulated? If so, by whom? How about regulating everything in America? Then our country could be known as the USSSA. (United Soviet Socialist States of America, for those of us who are a bit challenged) C'mon people, let's not get stupid, waddaya think?!
I'm a libertarian in many ways and would like no limits on my freedoms. But, I'm also realistic and recognize that our country would not have many of the things that I enjoy, and would be a very unsafe, hostile place if the government had not placed some restrictions on individual freedom in order to create a better society for us all.

So, I think we are going to have to accept some more restrictions on our individual freedoms in order to solve the health care crisis in this country. The question is - what does that look like?

[wyliec]

I'm a libertarian in many ways and would like no limits on my freedoms. But, I'm also realistic and recognize that our country would not have many of the things that I enjoy, and would be a very unsafe, hostile place if the government had not placed some restrictions on individual freedom in order to create a better society for us all.

So, I think we are going to have to accept some more restrictions on our individual freedoms in order to solve the health care crisis in this country. The question is - what does that look like?

I'm sorry, that went over my head. I understood Bob's answer perfectly well. If you care to dumb it down for me, I'm all ears. Please don't mention the opiod crisis.

[UtahPete]

I'm sorry, that went over my head. I understood Bob's answer perfectly well. If you care to dumb it down for me, I'm all ears. Please don't mention the opiod crisis.
Without limits on individual freedoms there would be no civil society. Laws & Regulations, for better or worse and whether we agree with them or not, are government's way of trying to protecting the greater public from the abusive exercise of freedoms by others, including businesses, individuals and other government agencies. In other words, there is no way to solve society's problems (i.e. protect the greater good) without limiting someone's freedoms.

We all accept limits on where and how we drive in order to create an orderly flow of traffic for the safety and protection of society as a whole. The same is going to be true about resolving the chaotic healthcare delivery and payment system in this country. The profiteers are going to have to be reined in by government. Pure and simple. Individuals have 'freedoms' but lack the power to shop around or negotiate for affordable health care in the way we do most other services.

[Malathion]

We can argue freedom or socialism forever, this is a moral decision. I commend them for their balanced position in light of a larger problem. One must always remember no form of government will succeed without moral underpinnings.

[wyliec]

The profiteers are going to have to be reined in by government. Pure and simple. Individuals have 'freedoms' but lack the power to shop around or negotiate for affordable health care in the way we do most other services.

I got rid of all the extraneous b.s. Now I understand and agree.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Is YOUR salary regulated? If so, by whom?

How about regulating everything in America?

Then our country could be known as the USSSA. (United Soviet Socialist States of America, for those of us who are a bit challenged)

C'mon people, let's not get stupid, waddaya think?!

i'm pretty sure mcdonald's sets/regulates the price on the happy meal, tempurpedic regulates the price of their
mattress, pharma bro got in trouble when he jumped the price on the epipen, gasonline is regulated on price, didn't
trump put tariffs today on steel & aluminum to help regulate the price for u.s. production and not have china dump
it on us at a lower price. i'm not sure if others have heard of minimum wage which is run by the government.
has anyone paid $100 for a car inspection, if not i will bet the price of that sticker is regulated.

[wyliec]

i'm pretty sure mcdonald's sets/regulates the price on the happy meal, tempurpedic regulates the price of their
mattress, pharma bro got in trouble when he jumped the price on the epipen, gasonline is regulated on price, didn't
trump put tariffs today on steel & aluminum to help regulate the price for u.s. production and not have china dump
it on us at a lower price. i'm not sure if others have heard of minimum wage which is run by the government.
has anyone paid $100 for a car inspection, if not i will bet the price of that sticker is regulated.

I don't believe all of the items you mentioned are regulated by the gov't. I believe kep-up may have been talking about gov't regulation. So, you're left with minimum wage, and inspection stickers. As for minimum wage, if you want to earn more, get a different job; so, your wages are not regulated by the gov't, but by you The drs. in Canada are pretty much limited to what the gov't agency that oversees their skill decides.

[UtahPete]

We can argue freedom or socialism forever, this is a moral decision. I commend them for their balanced position in light of a larger problem. One must always remember no form of government will succeed without moral underpinnings.
And no government in an advanced society can succeed based on moral persuasion (i.e. peer pressure) alone. Hence rules, regulations and laws to express the will of a majority of the people.

All we can hope for is fairness; not everyone will be pleased or satisfied with the outcome, but we do have a system that can change. Most times for the better.

[Holly]

I'm a libertarian in many ways and would like no limits on my freedoms. But, I'm also realistic and recognize that our country would not have many of the things that I enjoy, and would be a very unsafe, hostile place if the government had not placed some restrictions on individual freedom in order to create a better society for us all.

So, I think we are going to have to accept some more restrictions on our individual freedoms in order to solve the health care crisis in this country. The question is - what does that look like?




Well the government puts restrictions on how many wives you can have, but it doesn't stop those fine outstanding citizens that live in Utah. :roflblack:

My point is, law breakers don't abide by restrictions no matter the subject matter is. :thumbup:

[vided]

lib·er·tar·i·an·ism
ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/
noun


an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens.









Feedback (https://www.google.com/search?q=libertarianism+definition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#)

[UtahPete]

lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun
an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens. Feedback (https://www.google.com/search?q=libertarianism+definition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#)

This should be the operating philosophy of Homeowner Associations, but they're in fact the worst of tyrannical governments in my experience.

[vided]

You boasted "I'm a libertarian". Then you criticize libertarianism.

[Bob Denman]

Well the government puts restrictions on how many wives you can have, but it doesn't stop those fine outstanding citizens that live in Utah. :roflblack:

Any person that wants to have more than one Spouse, is much tougher than I am! :bowdown:
I have enough trouble handling just one of them! :gaah:

[UtahPete]

You boasted "I'm a libertarian". Then you criticize libertarianism.
No, I didn't. I said;

I'm a libertarian in many ways and would like no limits on my freedoms. But, I'm also realistic and recognize that our country would not have many of the things that I enjoy, and would be a very unsafe, hostile place if the government had not placed some restrictions on individual freedom in order to create a better society for us all.

[UtahPete]

Well the government puts restrictions on how many wives you can have, but it doesn't stop those fine outstanding citizens that live in Utah. :roflblack:

My point is, law breakers don't abide by restrictions no matter the subject matter is. :thumbup:
Holly, you just demonstrated your complete lack of respect for the truth. And, your point is moot.

[vided]

No, I didn't. I said;

I'm a libertarian .


you did it again

[loisk]

The petition is about doctors in the public system - in public hospitals and the like. They are talking about the distribution of scarce resources, ie taxpayers dollars, within that system. They are seeing the nurses and other hospital professionals, with whom they have to interact, being poorly paid, understaffed and overworked - and are simply stating their preference that those scarce dollars go elsewhere within their health care system for the benefit of staff and patients.

I presume that, as in oz, not all doctors are in the public system - their salaries remain market-driven. This is not about minimum wages anywhere... It is not about anything outside the public health care system in Canada. I am unsure as to whether the USA has public hospitals along the same funding basis, with (almost) free health care for all.

Democracies are based on utilitarianism - broadly, the greatest good for the greatest number. How they achieve this, eg big/small govt intervention, varies across countries and eras. Democracies are not simply about what the majority wants - governments have a role of governing for all, not just a numerical majority on any issue. A key role is the equitable division of scarce resources, including to health care, but the list covers so much more.

i for one applaud the Canadian doctors petition.

To the person who mentioned the steel/aluminium tariff - it's not just China! If it isn't softened, or targeted, your country will suffer economically (and in other ways) along with the rest of the world.

[vided]

I should have known it was too much to hope for an intelligent discussion on this forum.


158473

[UtahPete]

The petition is about doctors in the public system - in public hospitals and the like. They are talking about the distribution of scarce resources, ie taxpayers dollars, within that system. They are seeing the nurses and other hospital professionals, with whom they have to interact, being poorly paid, understaffed and overworked - and are simply stating their preference that those scarce dollars go elsewhere within their health care system for the benefit of staff and patients.

I presume that, as in oz, not all doctors are in the public system - their salaries remain market-driven. This is not about minimum wages anywhere... It is not about anything outside the public health care system in Canada. I am unsure as to whether the USA has public hospitals along the same funding basis, with (almost) free health care for all.

Democracies are based on utilitarianism - broadly, the greatest good for the greatest number. How they achieve this, eg big/small govt intervention, varies across countries and eras. Democracies are not simply about what the majority wants - governments have a role of governing for all, not just a numerical majority on any issue. A key role is the equitable division of scarce resources, including to health care, but the list covers so much more.

i for one applaud the Canadian doctors petition.

To the person who mentioned the steel/aluminium tariff - it's not just China! If it isn't softened, or targeted, your country will suffer economically (and in other ways) along with the rest of the world.
God, why can't Americans understand this? We are, in many ways, really ignorant and therefore doomed.

[Holly]

God, why can't Americans understand this? We are, in many ways, really ignorant and therefore doomed.




You really need to stop getting your news from The Washington Post and CNN. :joke:

[loisk]

Huh?
What are you saying Holly?
That the Canadian doctors petition doesn't exist? Or what?
FYI the info in my post did not come from any newspaper!

[Netminder]

Our Canadian health care system may not be perfect, but let me tell you from personal experience it definitely works when you need it the most. I applaud the doctors from my home province for realizing our tax dollars could go to other hard working people within their profession!:clap::clap:And nobody worry, my oncologist retired on his boat in France, and good on him, but they are not hurting, while some others in the health care field deserve more.

[blitzkreig]

As a Canadian ...

Canadian Drs. for the most part participate in the "public health system". They don't have to ... they can opt to be outside of the system and bill what ever they want when ever they want.

They are (for the most part again) paid fee for service. So a visit to the Dr. depends on what you are seen for. Most office visits cost far less than $100 (Canadian of course). From this amount the office staff, the real estate costs, and all of the consumables must be paid. That is why you get less than 10 minutes with the doctor. The doctor must pay multiple nurses and office staff from that gross amount. The costs of education come out of that and that could be much more than $100,000 in student loans alone.

My Dr. uses a different billing system which is called "capitation" in which they are paid a flat fee to keep me healthy. Whether I see the Dr. or not. Or if I see the Dr. hundreds of times in a year ... The very same amount. It is just over $1,000 per year (again Canadain money here). Again from that amount comes staff costs, drug costs, real estate costs and etc .... Kind of a gamble if you ask me but it is a lifestyle decision to go the capitation route.

Most family doctors are paid net of all costs very reasonably if you ask me. Somewhat less than $200,000 per year.

Specialists are paid considerably more of course.

So why a family doctor would protest overpayment beats me.

[RinconRyder]

I'm not looking for anything other than an intelligent discussion.

The headline doesn't explain what is really going on. In the province of Quebec there are other health care workers who are not being paid what the doctors think is required by their jobs. So they are suggesting that the doctors return the raises they were awarded and the money distributed to these other parts of the health care system. It is sort of a strike without the strike.

[UtahPete]

The headline doesn't explain what is really going on. In the province of Quebec there are other health care workers who are not being paid what the doctors think is required by their jobs. So they are suggesting that the doctors return the raises they were awarded and the money distributed to these other parts of the health care system. It is sort of a strike without the strike.
Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?

[JerryB]

Hi Pete,

Re: I should have known it was too much to hope for an intelligent discussion on this forum.

Yup. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Jerry Baumchen

[r1100rider]

Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to

[wyliec]

there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to

I'm looking at my 1040A, and I don't see it.:dontknow: I do see on line 48A where it asks how much you want refunded to you from your over payment. Is that what you're talking about?

[wyliec]

Good point. What are the chances the well-to-do in American society would ask the government to redistribute their ample income to the less fortunate?

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.:dontknow:

[UtahPete]

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.:dontknow:
It was about whatever thoughts the article brought to mind. For me, it was the incredible difference in attitudes between our two countries. It is the difference between a caring society and one that is not. As individuals, we may be generous toward others less fortunate, but as a society we are not.

[kep-up]

It was about whatever thoughts the article brought to mind. For me, it was the incredible difference in attitudes between our two countries. It is the difference between a caring society and one that is not. As individuals, we may be generous toward others less fortunate, but as a society we are not.

Really?? That comment is so not well thought out (stupid?) that I won't comment on it any further. "Snowflakes don't know when to quit", sooo accurate. Getting a grip on real life seems to also be rather difficult.

[vided]

158483

[UtahPete]

158483
Exactly. Thanks for demonstrating so graphically what I was saying.

As a society, we denigrate as 'bleeding heart liberals' those who view society as a team effort, rather than 'survival of the fittest' (and meanest).

[vided]

Here's some jewelry so you can pin it on your sleeve 158484

[RinconRyder]

Well the government puts restrictions on how many wives you can have, but it doesn't stop those fine outstanding citizens that live in Utah.

The "gubmint" didn't put limits on anything - the people did - through their representatives in Congress or through state or local gubmints.

You should read up on our gubmint. Find out where the laws come from.



My point is, law breakers don't abide by restrictions no matter the subject matter is.

Well.....duh! That's why they call them "lawbreakers".

[vided]

Is that your idea of wit?

This just keeps getting better and better.:clap:


You really don't act like a librarian :thumbup:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

In our area you can always find the less fortunate setting up with their signs at street corners/stop signs/stop lights asking for your support. I'm sure you must have the same in your area. Are you doing your part to redistribute? What is the dollar cutoff point for ample income?

How did we go from healthcare to the well-to-do and redistribution of their ample income? On second thought, maybe the OP was not really about healthcare, and more about the generosity of others, and we actually took it off track.:dontknow:

there was a less fortunate who ask for money last night at a nyc subway and when he said no the bum beat him up
and smashed his phone. I guess this is the less fortunate we should help.

[Holly]

there is an option on everyone’s tax return where they can pay extra money if they want to


I'm looking at my 1040A, and I don't see it.:dontknow: I do see on line 48A where it asks how much you want refunded to you from your over payment. Is that what you're talking about?




Ron, you must of over looked it.

There is clearly a box dedicated to the resistance where they can pay the extra money. I included the photo below and pointed to it with a red arrow. :thumbup:

158485

[vided]

Exactly how i knew you'd react :thumbup::thumbup:

[r1100rider]

The "gubmint" didn't put limits on anything - the people did - through their representatives in Congress or through state or local gubmints.

You should read up on our gubmint. Find out where the laws come from.



Well.....duh! That's why they call them "lawbreakers".
[/LEFT]if they just wouldn’t sell us all out once they get elected

[Netminder]

And yet another thread just waiting to be closed. Sad.

[UtahPete]

And yet another thread just waiting to be closed. Sad.
And we wonder why Washington is so dysfunctional? It's just a reflection of our self-centered and selfish society.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It was about whatever thoughts the article brought to mind. For me, it was the incredible difference in attitudes between our two countries. It is the difference between a caring society and one that is not. As individuals, we may be generous toward others less fortunate, but as a society we are not.


Really?? That comment is so not well thought out (stupid?) that I won't comment on it any further. "Snowflakes don't know when to quit", sooo accurate. Getting a grip on real life seems to also be rather difficult.
It seems to me you have not grasped the fundamental difference between the two sides of our society. On the one side are those who unequivocally and unapologetically espouse the credo that, "It's every man for himself!" On the other side is the belief and attitude that, "We are all in this together!" The challenge that today's American society refuses to rationally discuss is where is the most effective balance point between the two. The opinions shared on this forum from both sides clearly demonstrate that.

[TicketBait]

And we wonder why Washington is so dysfunctional? It's just a reflection of our self-centered and selfish society.
Completely agree and then some. Doesn't just stop with the medical field or a dysfunctional Washington either.

[RinconRyder]

if they just wouldn’t sell us all out once they get elected

You do have a point but we can always replace them. That's why there is a ballot box. It does take an informed public though. Something we seem to be lacking at the moment.

[Bob Denman]

And we wonder why Washington is so dysfunctional? It's just a reflection of our self-centered and selfish society.

Pete,
I get bugged, when folks think that it's okay to take what I've worked for my entire adult life; and "redistribute" it to folks who have never worked a day in theirs...
My Missus and I do donate to the causes that we feel are worthy:
1.Wounded Warriors

I guess that's about it... :dontknow:

[kep-up]

Let's talk about redistribution of wealth.........

I am a strong believer in "a hand up, not a hand out" and I help through my church and several charities as I am able. A good start to helping out is called a "tithe". 10% of one's income. It would be an interesting study of how many politically conservative versus politically liberals actually give at least a tithe to those who need it.

[UtahPete]

Let's talk about redistribution of wealth....I am a strong believer in "a hand up, not a hand out" and I help through my church and several charities as I am able. A good start to helping out is called a "tithe". 10% of one's income. It would be an interesting study of how many politically conservative versus politically liberals actually give at least a tithe to those who need it.
Let's NOT. Start your own thread if that's what you want to discuss.nojoke

But, if you insist on going down this path, you will regret it. I have no use for religious hypocrites, particularly the pious ones. Incidentally, Jesus had no use for them either. Are you ready for this?

[Bob Denman]

He's not discussing Religion: he's discussing a method by which folks can donate to the truly needy in their community. :thumbup:

[UtahPete]

He's not discussing Religion: he's discussing a method by which folks can donate to the truly needy in their community. :thumbup:
Bob, tithing is a religious concept. Some churches do good work in the local community, and others don't. The act of tithing in itself means little in the way of sharing one's blessings with those in need, so much as obeying the church's dictums. Look at the mega-churches, with their millionaire pastors and lavish lifestyles...

I just think that bringing religion into this discussion tends to obfuscate the issue of personal responsibility toward others, which is what this thread was originally about.

[nhoj]

I'm not looking for anything other than an intelligent discussion.

How's that working out for you :)

[UtahPete]

How's that working out for you :)
About as well as can be expected :ohyea:

[Holly]

Bob, tithing is a religious concept. Some churches do good work in the local community, and others don't. The act of tithing in itself means little in the way of sharing one's blessings with those in need, so much as obeying the church's dictums. Look at the mega-churches, with their millionaire pastors and lavish lifestyles...

I just think that bringing religion into this discussion tends to obfuscate the issue of personal responsibility toward others, which is what this thread was originally about.




I give back almost everyday so I believe I have fulfilled my personal responsibility towards others that make bad choices.

Everyone's 401k has exploded and the Dow is at all time highs because of MY smart vote. Your welcome. :joke:

[UtahPete]

I give back almost everyday so I believe I have fulfilled my personal responsibility towards others that make bad choices. Everyone's 401k has exploded and the Dow is at all time highs because of MY smart vote. Your welcome. :joke:
I'm glad you understand that is a complete joke. nojoke

[kep-up]

BTW, UP, how's that Spyder cover working for you? Or should I start a new thread??

[vided]

[/LEFT]
I'm glad you understand that is a complete joke. nojoke



Please explain, I've asked that on other post and got your smug bs.
so again, please explain why you think Holly's post is a joke.

[UtahPete]

BTW, UP, how's that Spyder cover working for you? Or should I start a new thread??
It's working fine thanks.

[kep-up]

Bob, tithing is a religious concept. Some churches do good work in the local community, and others don't. The act of tithing in itself means little in the way of sharing one's blessings with those in need, so much as obeying the church's dictums. Look at the mega-churches, with their millionaire pastors and lavish lifestyles...

I just think that bringing religion into this discussion tends to obfuscate the issue of personal responsibility toward others, which is what this thread was originally about.

Methinks you took my comment and interpreted it into your own special way of thinking.

I know tithing is basically a Jewish concept, but it is a good way for an individual to discipline himself to help those in need. Jewish or not, religious or not, doesn't matter to the subject at hand. Give to a church or whatever charity or hand out to individuals does not relieve one of doing the research to learn where the money is going.

[kep-up]

The time, it is a-changin'. I'm goin to bed.

[UtahPete]

Methinks you took my comment and interpreted it into your own special way of thinking. I know tithing is basically a Jewish concept, but it is a good way for an individual to discipline himself to help those in need. Jewish or not, religious or not, doesn't matter to the subject at hand. Give to a church or whatever charity or hand out to individuals does not relieve one of doing the research to learn where the money is going.
If I did, I apologize. I think I agree with what you're saying here, but I'm not sure how it is relevant to the thread discussion topic.

[UtahPete]

Please explain, I've asked that on other post and got your smug bs. so again, please explain why you think Holly's post is a joke.
She used the joke emoji on her post.

[vided]

Ok

[RinconRyder]

Everyone's 401k has exploded and the Dow is at all time highs because of MY smart vote.



Ask the coal miners in West Virginia how they appreciate your "smart vote". You know, the ones that didn't participate in T-rump's "Great Recovery".

Ask the Middle Class who have seen their wages stagnant and harmed greatly by T-rump's taxes.

Get ready to ask the steel and aluminum workers and all sorts of other workers (est. 156,000 of them per the Dept of Labor) who are about to be laid off due to rising domestic prices because of the T-rump tariffs.

Yeah.....You're the "smart" vote!


Your welcome.



Oh, and BTW, learn English grammar.

[r1100rider]

Ask the coal miners in West Virginia how they appreciate your "smart vote". You know, the ones that didn't participate in T-rump's "Great Recovery".

Ask the Middle Class who have seen their wages stagnant and harmed greatly by T-rump's taxes.

Get ready to ask the steel and aluminum workers and all sorts of other workers (est. 156,000 of them per the Dept of Labor) who are about to be laid off due to rising domestic prices because of the T-rump tariffs.

Yeah.....You're the "smart" vote!




Oh, and BTW, learn English grammar.the last president was the one who vowed the shut down the coal industry,the tariffs are applied to import steel not domestic

[vided]

Ask the Middle Class who have seen their wages stagnant


Oh, and BTW, learn English grammar.


Why are you always bashing THE Skinny Community DIVIDER. He was voted out.
oh, and BTW, stuff your grammar lessons

[Bob Denman]

Bob, tithing is a religious concept.
"Charity" isn't a religious concept: no matter what you call it. :2thumbs:

If a Church is giving the money to worthwhile charities: what' the harm in that? :dontknow:

[UtahPete]

"Charity" isn't a religious concept: no matter what you call it. :2thumbs:

If a Church is giving the money to worthwhile charities: what' the harm in that? :dontknow:
I agree.

[UtahPete]

Why are you always bashing THE Skinny Community DIVIDER. He was voted out.
Now that is a certifiably ignorant and false statement.

[UtahPete]

I finally read through the entire article and was ready to respond, but it's gone.

[wyliec]

I finally read through the entire article and was ready to respond, but it's gone.

The bottom line is that those that responded felt I was trying to start something controversial; so, I removed it. I read the article all the way thru, and just found it interesting, and was not intending to take one side or the other. I actually felt that no one else but you would read the entire article, and I don't believe those that responded did. :dontknow: And, thanks for reading.

[vided]

Now that is a certifiably ignorant and false statement.


not at all, she lost, which meant no third term for the skinny community divider :yes:

[R FUN]

Back to the subject of medical ethics, Call the Canadian system SOCIALIST or whatever you wish but in my opinion it works great.Pretty well every civilized country in the world has a socialized health system except the USA.Does this mean we are all socialist and wrong and the US is the only one that has it right. Our doctors are free to start there own private practice the same as our dentists,optometrists, audiologists etc. and charge what they wish. They are also free to leave our country and practice elsewere including the USA but I have never seen a line up of doctors trying to cross the border or leave period. Maybe I am wrong but I think we have a wonderful system and would not want it any other way even if all systems has its flaws. Everyone to there own opinion.
All the best
Roger

[wyliec]

not at all, she lost, which meant no third term for the skinny community divider :yes:


We are all entitled to our opinion. I think the division is greater now, unless we are not talking the same division.

[UtahPete]

The bottom line is that those that responded felt I was trying to start something controversial; so, I removed it. I read the article all the way thru, and just found it interesting, and was not intending to take one side or the other. I actually felt that no one else but you would read the entire article, and I don't believe those that responded did. :dontknow: And, thanks for reading.
I saw those comments and I can understand why others might have felt that way, but I didn't. It is a very thought-provoking article, addressing many controversial issues (e.g. allocation of scarce public resources, legal vs. religious definitions of death, society's obligations to pay for the consequences of someone's belief-based decisions, the role of science vs. religion in making public policy, etc.)

Your question was really quite limited; is anyone committing murder by pulling the ventilator system from this woman? My opinion is NO, but that is based on my personal beliefs not on any legal or medical protocols, which I'm not qualified to address.

[vided]

The division is left over from the last 8 yrs and the identity bashing.

[UtahPete]

not at all, she lost, which meant no third term for the skinny community divider :yes:

It's small-minded people and attitudes like yours that continue to divide communities, not political leaders.

[JerryB]

Hi Pete,

Re: It's small-minded people and attitudes like yours that continue to divide communities, not political leaders.

Yup,

Jerry Baumchen

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Let's talk about redistribution of wealth.........

I am a strong believer in "a hand up, not a hand out" and I help through my church and several charities as I am able. A good start to helping out is called a "tithe". 10% of one's income. It would be an interesting study of how many politically conservative versus politically liberals actually give at least a tithe to those who need it.

giving charity out of the goodness of your heart is a lot different then taking someones money and then distributing a percentage as that person sees fit.

don't tell me what to do with my money and i won't tell you how to have sex with your wife!!

[vided]

This thread is getting very political and will get pulled.
the elitist are also throwing their usual insults.
so I am retiring from this bs

[UtahPete]

giving charity out of the goodness of your heart is a lot different then taking someones money and then distributing a percentage as that person sees fit. don't tell me what to do with my money and i won't tell you how to have sex with your wife!!
You're creating an issue where none exists.

[vided]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8K0bPc-BE

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

You're creating an issue where none exists.

most off topic threads are issues.

[Bob Denman]

You're the one that made it that way. And, you're the one that began with the insults. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen and good riddance.
:lecturef_smilie: Telling folks to leave isn't cool... nojoke

[vided]

:lecturef_smilie: Telling folks to leave isn't cool... nojoke


No one, I mean no one, pays him any mind :roflblack::roflblack:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Liberals, can't live with them can't round 'em up & send to canada.

[UtahPete]

Liberals, can't live with them can't round 'em up & send to canada.

You live with "liberals" all around you whether you choose to acknowledge us and our contribution to society or not. We are everywhere, including LEO, military, churches, gun owners, business owners and executives. There aren't enough of you to 'round us up and send us to Canada'.

Why do you feel the need to bash everyone who doesn't buy into the far-right-wing propaganda, which incidentally is the MAJORITY in this country?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

You live with "liberals" all around you whether you choose to acknowledge us and our contribution to society or not. We are everywhere, including LEO, military, churches, gun owners, business owners and executives. There aren't enough of you to 'round us up and send us to Canada'.

Why do you feel the need to bash everyone who doesn't buy into the far-right-wing propaganda, which incidentally is the MAJORITY in this country?

I live in nyc under the very liberal mayor deblasio the city is sliding down for those who work for a living. liberals here
always have their hands out for others but never want to reach into their own pocket.

[UtahPete]

I live in nyc under the very liberal mayor deblasio the city is sliding down for those who work for a living. liberals here
always have their hands out for others but never want to reach into their own pocket.
Don't you think maybe that's just your bias?

[Bob Denman]

Pete,
But couldn't this be your bias.. against his bias? :dontknow:

:shocked: My head is starting to hurt... :shocked:

[vided]

You live with "liberals" all around you whether you choose to acknowledge us and our contribution to society or not. We are everywhere, including LEO, military, churches, gun owners, business owners and executives. There aren't enough of you to 'round us up and send us to Canada'.

Why do you feel the need to bash everyone who doesn't buy into the far-right-wing propaganda, which incidentally is the MAJORITY in this country?


You claimed you were a libertarian, now your a libie, lol :yikes::yikes:
as far as bashing, you dear boy are always the first with some type of insult.
as Nicky said "Be nice, be nice"

[UtahPete]

Pete, But couldn't this be your bias.. against his bias? :dontknow: :shocked: My head is starting to hurt... :shocked:
Bob, he's making such a broad statement about the conditions in NY and how 'liberals' behave, I don't think it's my bias (and yes, I do have them) bringing his claims into question.

[Bob Denman]

:opps: Pete... you kind of did... :banghead:

[Bob Denman]

Bob, he's making such a broad statement about the conditions in NY and how 'liberals' behave, I don't think it's my bias (and yes, I do have them) bringing his claims into question.

But he DOES liver there, and he is trying to run a business...
I'd trust his take on the situation; he has to see what is going on there... every day! :shocked:

[UtahPete]

:opps: Pete... you kind of did... :banghead:
You think it's my bias that his statement is biased? You think it's fact-based and not just his perception?

[Bob Denman]

You think it's my bias that his statement is biased? You think it's fact-based and not just his perception?
:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shoc ked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Lnz64vXB8

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Don't you think maybe that's just your bias?

perhaps so but don't you think it could be true? if deblasio really wanted to help nyc then he probably wouldn't
be renting out his house for over $5k/month while he & his family live in the mayors mansion. nyc liberals ask
and take more then they are willing to give and NO that is not my opinion or bias.

[Bob Denman]

I think that he should convert his house into a homeless shelter...

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I think that he should convert his house into a homeless shelter...

i have said that for many years, but since he is a liberal he doesn't want to spend HIS money on others, it should only
be public money like when he gave a $100k grant to an anti american hate group with ties to Hamas.

[UtahPete]

i have said that for many years, but since he is a liberal he doesn't want to spend HIS money on others, it should only
be public money like when he gave a $100k grant to an anti american hate group with ties to Hamas.
You don't think there is anything wrong with saying this? You don't think this is a bigoted statement?

Never mind. Judging from your history of posts, I'd say the answer is no to both questions.

[Bob Denman]

Pete,
I have to ask: how would YOU describe Bill DiBlasio? :dontknow:

Personally: I think that calling him a "Liberal"; seems rather polite...

[UtahPete]

Pete, I have to ask: how would YOU describe Bill DiBlasio? :dontknow: Personally: I think that calling him a "Liberal"; seems rather polite...
I think he probably is a liberal. That's not what I was objecting to. I was objecting to the bigoted statement (and all the other similarly bigoted statements on this forum) that 'because he's a liberal, then ..... whatever'.

That is absurd. You can't make broad statements about a certain class of people (liberals, democrats, blacks, muslims, vegetarians) without expecting to be called out on it.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

You don't think there is anything wrong with saying this? You don't think this is a bigoted statement?

Never mind. Judging from your history of posts, I'd say the answer is no to both questions.

pete usually when i make statements like that i base it on a little known thing called facts. at any time i can back
up what i say but that would be pointless to you.
Oh by the way under the first amendment i am allowed to make those statements, under the first amendment
i am allowed to lie and the aclu would have to back me up.

[vided]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/13/bill-de-blasios-socialist-dream-david-boaz-column/659138001/

[Bob Denman]

That is absurd. You can't make broad statements about a certain class of people (liberals, democrats, blacks, muslims, vegetarians) without expecting to be called out on it.
This is funny: I didn't se a single mention of:
Republicans
Conservatives
Whites
Middle-Class
Firearms enthusiasts
or even
Males

Wassup wit DAT? :D

[UtahPete]

This is funny: I didn't se a single mention of:
Republicans
Conservatives
Whites
Middle-Class
Firearms enthusiasts
or even
Males

Wassup wit DAT? :D

I was using examples of groups of people about which any broad statements would be unsupportable and based only on the speaker's biases.

E.g. "All white males are mysoginists"

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Pete is the statement bigoted even if it is true?

[UtahPete]

Pete is the statement bigoted even if it is true?
No, what makes a statement bigoted is to say that a person belongs to a certain class of people and that certain class of people is defined by a certain set of characteristics.

If you want to say that in your opinion Blasio is running the city into the ground, that's one thing.

But it's another thing altogether to say that he and all liberals are selfish socialists looking for a handout, or are anti-gun, or are un-American or whatever, and that since (in your opinion) Blasio belongs to the 'liberal' class, then he and they are ..... fill in the blanks.

Most of your statements tend to be blanket condemnations of a certain class of people that you don't happen to like - that's bigoted.

[vided]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InaRIYFPMiY

[Bob Denman]

I was using examples of groups of people about which any broad statements would be unsupportable and based only on the speaker's biases.
E.g. "All white males are misogynists"

I KNOW that this one is false: we're actually all masochists! :yikes:

As a group: we tend to marry while females!

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

No, what makes a statement bigoted is to say that a person belongs to a certain class of people and that certain class of people is defined by a certain set of characteristics.

If you want to say that in your opinion Blasio is running the city into the ground, that's one thing.

But it's another thing altogether to say that he and all liberals are selfish socialists looking for a handout, or are anti-gun, or are un-American or whatever, and that since (in your opinion) Blasio belongs to the 'liberal' class, then he and they are ..... fill in the blanks.

Most of your statements tend to be blanket condemnations of a certain class of people that you don't happen to like - that's bigoted.

pete why are you trying to interpret what i say instead of just reading it and taking on face value? it seems you are
much more bigoted or opinionated then you allow others to be.
deblasio is liberal, not an opinion, he rents his house out for top dollar and does not donate any of his properties
to allow the poor or homeless to stay in. as mayor of ny he did give a $100k grant to a woman who runs an organization that IS anti american and her family Does have ties to hamas and family members have been arrested for it. If you lived in ny you would know of many many other things he has done for personal gain and of little concern to the working class and he is also very hated by nypd and fdny as he has offended them many times. Please tell me of what i have said is bigoted, racist or opinionated in any way.

[Bob Denman]

Al,
It might help if you listed some of the sources for your information... :dontknow:

[UtahPete]

pete why are you trying to interpret what i say instead of just reading it and taking on face value? it seems you are much more bigoted or opinionated then you allow others to be. deblasio is liberal, not an opinion, he rents his house out for top dollar and does not donate any of his properties to allow the poor or homeless to stay in. he did give a $100k grant to a woman who runs an organization that IS anti american and her family Does have ties to hamas and family members have been arrested for it. If you lived in ny you would know of many many other things he has done for personal gain and of little concern to the working class and he is also very hated by nypd and fdny as he has offended them many times. Please tell me of what i have said is bigoted, racist or opinionated in any way.
I quit. As a wise man once said;

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I quit. As a wise man once said;

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

try being a wise man and you might

[Netminder]

Wow! Still not shutdown, way off topic, but still going! Amazing.:dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: I have a question:
If I take the headache that this thread has given me to a Doctor in Canada: is he going to slap me on the back, and hand me a couple of aspirins? :dontknow:
Or will he do what they do down here?
Draw blood for lab tests...
Call in another Doctor...
Who calls in a Specialist!
Who then orders a PET scan, CAT scan, termite scan, and a financial scan! :gaah:
After Six weeks of tests, and time off from work: they'll THEN give you a prescription for a pain-killer that your insurance won't pay for! :cus::cus::cus:

[wyliec]

:shocked: I have a question:
If I take the headache that this thread has given me to a Doctor in Canada: is he going to slap me on the back, and hand me a couple of aspirins? :dontknow:
Or will he do what they do down here?
Draw blood for lab tests...
Call in another Doctor...
Who calls in a Specialist!
Who then orders a PET scan, CAT scan, termite scan, and a financial scan! :gaah:
After Six weeks of tests, and time off from work: they'll THEN give you a prescription for a pain-killer that your insurance won't pay for! :cus::cus::cus:

Sounds like he should slap you on the back of the head and then a boot in the a$$.:p

You are going to love Medicare when the time comes, and you have to go for blood work, and the Dr./nurse writes the wrong code, and you call Medicare with questions concerning the code used. They are the experts in talking in circles.

[Netminder]

He will give you two aspirins, Bob, unless you tell him other threads give you headaches too!:yikes::yikes: Then he will order all the scans etc. But it will not matter whether I am low income, middle income or high income, I should get the same care. But the higher the income the more paid on our taxes for this universal health care, it is definitely not free, but it is not as painful as if you are low income and cannot afford the care when you really need it.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I think he probably is a liberal. That's not what I was objecting to. I was objecting to the bigoted statement (and all the other similarly bigoted statements on this forum) that 'because he's a liberal, then ..... whatever'.

That is absurd. You can't make broad statements about a certain class of people (liberals, democrats, blacks, muslims, vegetarians) without expecting to be called out on it.

pete my bias is aimed at deblasio and his liberalism, if you have the time just google deblasio to see what he has done
and while you are at it google linda sarsour and what deblasio has done for her and her american hate campaign. don't
believe me just read with an open mind. :yikes:

[wyliec]

I KNOW that this one is false: we're actually all masochists! :yikes:

As a group: we tend to marry while females!

:hun:
I guess I need to weigh myself; I'm feeling kind of dense.

[Mickay]

Dr. Getean Barrette is the minister of health it's a radiologist and the prime minister is a cardiologist... 2 doctors at the head of the province of Quebec... Dr. Getean Barrette before going in politics was the president of the union of doctor specialist... and he left with a bonus of 1 million $. The budget for the health care system cost more than 50% of the budget province.

My main concern that the 2 doctor has both hands in the candy bag... Does not look that they fix their salary for when they leave politics.