Give me your tired, your poor

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I think it is time to be reminded what a certain structure means to the world, and to our heritage.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Emma Lazarus, 1883

[DGoebel]

AMEN brother, most of us are immigrants (or descendants of), legal or otherwise at some point in time.

[pegasus1300]

And that my friends is our dilemma. How do we live up to the spirit of those words and spirit that led to those words and that statue in the first place. How do we keep our promise to those who came to the front door and knocked and did all we asked of them and got their citizenship as they should with a promise to support our laws and our country and know where and how we got the rights and freedoms we have? How do we rescue the ones for whom there was no legal place,but who are here never the less and doing everything they can to live productive lives and raise their families in law and safety? I don't have any answers and neither does anybody else of national prominence or influence that I have heard.All I do know is somewhere, somehow one day we are going to have to swallow a pretty bitter pill.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:agree: ....... However there is a HUGH difference between legal immigration and what is the currant issue ...... jmho ...Mike :thumbup:............. PS and Yes I like the Wall thing

[ARtraveler]

Both sets of grandparents saw Lady Liberty upon immigrating to this country. Legally. :yes:

[UtahPete]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

[RinconRyder]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.

[ofdave]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

No where does it say we will financially support them, so let them come just don't let them take.

[Big F]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

BINGO! you hit it right on the head. forget the gazillions of dollars they want to spend on building a wall and retrain Homeland Security personnel that are competent to protect the border. this approach would save the taxpayers millions of dollars. issue solved.
BIG F

[Machinegunner]

Mexico has a wall on its southern border. Several countries near Turkey are building walls. They must think they work.

[UtahPete]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.
Actually, unless it's changed, the immigration law provision allowing for sponsorship of family members does require the sponsor to accept responsibility for sponsorees. It's been used by American military service members to bring extended family members of their foreign-born spouse into the country.

Immigration is a complex issue deserving of thoughtful bi-partisan debate and periodic updates given the ever-changing geopolitical environment.

[UtahPete]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.
You would be right, except that we have not had unrestricted immigration since 1883. Immigration law is very complex and is a very large portion of the State department responsibilities.

[Bob Denman]

This isn't 1883 any longer. We cannot allow unrestricted immigration as we have in the past. This damn country is already way too crowded.

:D We actually agree on something... :yikes:

[RinconRyder]

I have a problem with the cost of caring for those who come here expecting to be taken care of.

There should be a "Go Fund Me" cause to support the illegals who come to this country expecting but don't contribute. Those who want what they can get without any desire or need to become a citizen.

Those who think that these non-citizens deserve to be here would become responsible for paying for them.

Consider that the majority of illegals work for real companies so they pay into SS and income taxes. But because they are not legal they cannot claim benefits or refunds from those. In addition, they pay sales and property taxes just like the rest of us.

[Bob Denman]

But they use faked I.D. credentials to do this...
It might even be yours or mine! :gaah:

[MR. H1956]

How do you think all the legal folk that was born here felt when these company's fired or layed them off So they could hire all the illegals they could just to get cheap labor so they could save money and pad their own pockets.Some of my friends that were brick layers and carpenters lost jobs to illegals so their bosses could save lots of money and have nice new things while they live on food stamps and lose everything they worked hard for all their life.Now tell me where is the justice in that deal at.

[UtahPete]

How do you think all the legal folk that was born here felt when these company's fired or layed them off So they could hire all the illegals they could just to get cheap labor so they could save money and pad their own pockets.Some of my friends that were brick layers and carpenters lost jobs to illegals so their bosses could save lots of money and have nice new things while they live on food stamps and lose everything they worked hard for all their life.Now tell me where is the justice in that deal at.
There is none. Those company owners that break the law should get shut down and go to jail. But, if those 'illegals' are actually green-card holders then there is nothing wrong with what the company owners did. The real culprit is 'right to work' laws that discourage organized labor - everyone gets screwed by that (except the capitalists of course).

[Rogue Hawk]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

Walls are obsolete and a waste of money. Walls worked great when the Chinese where keeping out Mongolian horsemen. But I think modes of transport and digging technology have improved just a bit since then.

[ofdave]

Consider that the majority of illegals work for real companies so they pay into SS and income taxes. But because they are not legal they cannot claim benefits or refunds from those. In addition, they pay sales and property taxes just like the rest of us.


do you really believe that? A "majority"?
I mean, really? Property taxes?
Do you understand the penalties companies face for hiring illegals? (at least here in FL, they would have problems if they did)

I bet illegals don't get any form of welfare or free medical care either, right?
.

[MR. H1956]

Ok I quit, this is turning into another ar15 thread. Will it get to 17 pages who knows. But lets just live and agree to disagree nothing gets settled. Ride safe my friends. Happy Trails. May the Spyder God WATCH OVER YOU.

[RinconRyder]

do you really believe that? A "majority"?
I mean, really? Property taxes?
Do you understand the penalties companies face for hiring illegals? (at least here in FL, they would have problems if they did)

I bet illegals don't get any form of welfare or free medical care either, right?
.

I don't know what the situation is in Flori-duh but here in AZ:

Most undocumented workers work for bonifide businesses (mostly construction). Some of them are into drug and gun smuggling, yes.
Virtually all of them pay into SS and have taxes deducted just like the rest of us.
None of them are allowed to receive welfare and "free" medical care is supplied at the behest of the provider - no tax hit.

Hiring illegals is a farce. They will simply buy someone's SS # which passes the background check and the employer can then say "well, we didn't know" and is off the hook.

[UtahPete]

I don't know what the situation is in Flori-duh but here in AZ:

Most undocumented workers work for bonifide businesses (mostly construction). Some of them are into drug and gun smuggling, yes.
Virtually all of them pay into SS and have taxes deducted just like the rest of us.
None of them are allowed to receive welfare and "free" medical care is supplied at the behest of the provider - no tax hit.

Hiring illegals is a farce. They will simply buy someone's SS # which passes the background check and the employer can then say "well, we didn't know" and is off the hook.
All I know is that, as with most things, neither party has the solution; a solution will be found when a middle ground is negotiated by both sides. That hasn't happened since Mitch McConnell famously declared, in catering to the virulent right-wing base, that Job#1 for Republicans was to ensure President O was a one-termer. Great way to lead the country.

[Bob Denman]

The "Train-Wreck" has left the Station... :banghead:

[UtahPete]

The "Train-Wreck" has left the Station... :banghead:
As far as I'm concerned it left the tracks a long time ago. nojoke

[Bob Denman]

:D You can call me:

158279

[sandeejs]

Both sets of grandparents saw Lady Liberty upon immigrating to this country. Legally. :yes:

Mine too. They worked hard, they taught their kids (my parents) to do that, too. And darned if my parents didn't insist we work hard, too!!

~Sandee~

[UtahPete]

Mine too. They worked hard, they taught their kids (my parents) to do that, too. And darned if my parents didn't insist we work hard, too!! ~Sandee~
That is the typical immigrant ethic in my experience. And the country is better for them.

So, let's quit with the bashing of newer immigrants, just because they're not primarily from Europe. That's bigotry, not patriotism.

[canamjhb]

I am 1st generation American. My Father immigrated from Canada and Grandparents to the US via Canada. They didn't sneak, lie, cheat, or steal their way into the US. I suspect the very large majority on this forum have a similar story. Just ask yourself, did my ancestors come here illegally? The problem is not with immigration. The problem is with those people who choose to not follow OUR laws. There is a path to citizenship and legal immigration. We just need to find the best way to deal with the cheaters and law breakers. Because they are cheaters and law breakers period. Let your heart bleed for them. Be sympathetic. But understand we simply cannot accommodate each and every poor soul who wants to be here.

[UtahPete]

I am 1st generation American. My Father immigrated from Canada and Grandparents to the US via Canada. They didn't sneak, lie, cheat, or steal their way into the US. I suspect the very large majority on this forum have a similar story. Just ask yourself, did my ancestors come here illegally? The problem is not with immigration. The problem is with those people who choose to not follow OUR laws. There is a path to citizenship and legal immigration. We just need to find the best way to deal with the cheaters and law breakers. Because they are cheaters and law breakers period. Let your heart bleed for them. Be sympathetic. But understand we simply cannot accommodate each and every poor soul who wants to be here.
I agree completely. My heart doesn't bleed for those who circumvented the system and now find themselves in trouble.

[RinconRyder]

I agree completely. My heart doesn't bleed for those who circumvented the system and now find themselves in trouble.

I do think we need different standards for the people brought here as young children. They had no say in what their parents did and it seems very unjust to send them 'back' to a country in which they never lived.

[UtahPete]

I do think we need different standards for the people brought here as young children. They had no say in what their parents did and it seems very unjust to send them 'back' to a country in which they never lived.
Yep, Congress needs to deal fairly with the 'Dreamer' issue and remove the doubt and fear for these young people.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If you're willing to engage in some lengthy reading here are two very interesting research reports by the Pew Research Center about the Hispanic population in the US, what percentage are immigrants vs. US born, and what has been the trend in migration, mostly unauthorized.

In short since about 2000 the net migration from Mexico has been about zero. As many Mexicans are going back to Mexico as are coming here! Less and less of the annual increase in Hispanic population is from migration and more and more from US births.

The report has several tabs. In the tab of Current Data you'll find the following bit of data about the income level of Hispanic families. In 2015 dollars the median household income was $44,800.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2017/09/18/facts-on-u-s-latinos/
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

Enjoy the read. It's rather enlightening. At least it is to me!

[MR. H1956]

As far as I'm concerned it left the tracks a long time ago. nojoke
I think it broke down before it ever left the station. Just get back off and head home and try again Monday.

[Bob Denman]

Please tell me that we're not lumping legal, and illegal immigrants into the same pile of people... :shocked:

[Easy Rider]

AMEN brother, most of us are immigrants (or descendants of), legal or otherwise at some point in time.


Nice sentiment.

The problem NOW is: The USA may not be equipped to handle the influx of unskilled and untrained people. We might not even be equipped to handle those that are trained AND skilled without having a negative impact on those already here.

I would like to start seeing the REAL unemployment numbers......that don't exclude those who have "given up and aren't looking for work anymore".

[TicketBait]

Nice sentiment.

The problem NOW is: The USA may not be equipped to handle the influx of unskilled and untrained people. We might not even be equipped to handle those that are trained AND skilled without having a negative impact on those already here.

I would like to start seeing the REAL unemployment numbers......that don't exclude those who have "given up and aren't looking for work anymore".

I would like to see real unemployment and REAL employment #'s over the last 50 years. Should be somewhere you would think. I grew up where my mom was a stay at home mom in the fifties and sixties. Then many more women entered the workforce, very few males switched roles. Families became two working households, The divorce rate skyrocketed to 50%, women needed to work to help raise families. Not sure if I am going anywhere with this. But the unemployment% is always given and not the actual number of People.

[RinconRyder]

Please tell me that we're not lumping legal, and illegal immigrants into the same pile of people... :shocked:

The problem with Dreamers is they don't fit the legal profile.

They are technically illegal because they did not process through our immigration system but they could hardly be considered as such because they were brought here by their parents or guardians and thus not responsible for their actions.

The USA does not hold children responsible for petty crimes they commit due to age so why is it different for the immigration system?

As for automatic citizenship being born on American soil - that has proved to be a major cause of family disruption recently. Congress should resolve that defect immediately by tying the child(ren) to the citizenship of the mother.

[RinconRyder]

I would like to start seeing the REAL unemployment numbers......that don't exclude those who have "given up and aren't looking for work anymore".

How would you possibly measure the number of people who are not actively looking for work?

[MR. H1956]

You guys all know how the government works. They just like to throw numbers out there and hope something sticks. Kinda like when you cook spaghetti. Pull out a noodle and chunk it at the wall if it sticks it done. If not cook it some more then throw another one

[UtahPete]

You guys all know how the government works. They just like to throw numbers out there and hope something sticks. Kinda like when you cook spaghetti. Pull out a noodle and chunk it at the wall if it sticks it done. If not cook it some more then throw another one

You do realize don't you that in a democracy WE are the government? I realize it hasn't been too responsive lately but it seems progressives have more to complain about than conservatives do. But, responsive or not to specific issues that interest us, there is no THEY.

We have met the enemy and they is us..... Who said that?

[UtahPete]

The problem with Dreamers is they don't fit the legal profile.

They are technically illegal because they did not process through our immigration system but they could hardly be considered as such because they were brought here by their parents or guardians and thus not responsible for their actions.

The USA does not hold children responsible for petty crimes they commit due to age so why is it different for the immigration system?

As for automatic citizenship being born on American soil - that has proved to be a major cause of family disruption recently. Congress should resolve that defect immediately by tying the child(ren) to the citizenship of the mother.
There's a lot of hypocrisy at work here. Melania, Ted Cruz, etc.

[Bob Denman]

The problem with Dreamers is they don't fit the legal profile.

They are technically illegal because they did not process through our immigration system but they could hardly be considered as such because they were brought here by their parents or guardians and thus not responsible for their actions.

The USA does not hold children responsible for petty crimes they commit due to age so why is it different for the immigration system?

As for automatic citizenship being born on American soil - that has proved to be a major cause of family disruption recently. Congress should resolve that defect immediately by tying the child(ren) to the citizenship of the mother.

What's a "Dreamer"?
My family has dreams: I'm sure that yours does also.
If you're referring to the children brought in by illegal alien parents: I think that our President has tried to offer a solution for them...
And most of them are already adults now anyway; they could apply for citizenship at ANY time.

[canamjhb]

Let's say that many (Many, many) years ago my pregnant mother goes to Norway (the land of very liberal social benefits) and gives birth to me. Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits? That's what we do with our "anchor baby" program and it's a very big drain on you and me. It has to end.

[UtahPete]

Let's say that many (Many, many) years ago my pregnant mother goes to Norway (the land of very liberal social benefits) and gives birth to me. Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits? That's what we do with our "anchor baby" program and it's a very big drain on you and me. It has to end.
Please quantify 'big drain'. The 'big drain' on our economy is; a) our military, b) our so-called homeland 'security', c) the most expensive and cost-inefficient health care system in the world.

Nothing else comes close. Certainly not anchor babies. What liberal social benefits are they collecting anyway? Healthcare? Nope -they pay just like the rest of us.

[Bob Denman]

A Nation that doesn't defend itself: is a goner! nojoke
The Military defends our freedom.
And since you choose to not use firearms to defend yourself: you should be VERY thankful for them. :thumbup:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

A Nation that doesn't defend itself: is a goner! nojoke
The Military defends our freedom.
And since you choose to not use firearms to defend yourself: you should be VERY thankful for them. :thumbup:

are you saying we should arm the citizens and shoot illegals?

[Bob Denman]

:dontknow: I suppose that if they're robbing your house or your business... :dontknow:
Or threatening your family!

158297

[johnsimion]

I do think we need different standards for the people brought here as young children. They had no say in what their parents did and it seems very unjust to send them 'back' to a country in which they never lived.

I agree it would be unfair to deport those who lived their whole lives here and are already working adults. No problem with that -- the actual problem is where do you draw the line? At what age must the child have arrived in America? What if the child arrived here at the age of 16 and is now 18? Why should such a child be entitled to special protection? What about 15? 12?

For those who are STILL young children -- even though they may have been brought here as mere infants and grown up thus far in America -- somebody has to raise and take care of them until they are adults. Who is going to do that? If you give them amnesty, does this then mean we also have to accept their illegal immigrant parents to raise them? Is this not, then, benefiting the parents for not following the law?

So, you say, the parents can go home and the children can be raised by other (legal) family members. But at what age do you allow them to do that? Say the child came here at 18 months and is now two years old. Send the child home with its parents or let it stay here with (legal) family members? And is not also cruel to break up a family like that? Would it not be better to send such young children home with their own parents?

As for how "unjust" this is, is it not true that children everywhere pay the price for their parents' misconduct? If a parent commits robbery, for example, his or her child suffers, doesn't he?

I do not know the answers here but I am tired of the constant stereotyping we do in this country. Things are way too complicated for simplistic solutions.

[Easy Rider]

How would you possibly measure the number of people who are not actively looking for work?

They usually are getting some kind of public assistance.
Easy to count.

How do they count those who ARE looking......if they aren't drawing unemployment benefits ??

[JerryB]

Hi Bob,

Re: they could apply for citizenship at ANY time.

You should stick with what you know: Insurance

And stay out of any legal discussion.

They cannot apply because they have no status.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryB]

Hi canamjhb,

Re: Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits?

I cannot speak for Norway. However, I know a woman whose son was born in a US Military hospital in France. He has dual citizenship, American & French. He once told me he would never return to France because he would be elegible for the French military conscription.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I also knew a number of people born in Brazil to Dutch citizens and they had dual citizenship.

[johnsimion]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.

I petitioned my wife to come to America in 1988 and she became an American citizen in 1991. LEGALLY.
In 1994, she petitioned one brother and one sister to come to America, and the petitions were approved. LEGALLY.
BUT that doesn't mean they came here. NOOOOO. If you have an approved petition, you still have to wait until the Department of State determines there is a Visa Number available. As of 2018 -- that is, 24 years later -- one brother is now preparing to actually immigrate. LEGALLY.

Don't tell me that "chain migration" is a big problem, not when it takes 24 years to actually come here.
And BTW the farthest you can go with "chain migration" is brother or sister. There is NO provision for aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. etc. as the misinformed would like to believe.
Also BTW, the law actually says that LEGAL immigrants cannot get welfare. Ask me how I know? Because I had to sign an Affidavit of Support for my wife and my brother-in-law in which I personally had to swear that they would never go on public assistance. You can look it up -- it's Form I-864 and I-864A. I think the problem is that nobody bothers to enforce that law.

I do not deny that illegals are getting free medical care at ERs all across the country. The ERs are required to provide this. But that is a law that could and SHOULD be changed. Just don't blame the LEGAL immigrants for it. Yes, some LEGAL immigrants probably slip by and get stuff free, too, but that's because nobody enforces the law. Non-enforcement of the law is one of the biggest problems we have in this country, both for guns and for immigration.

Those of us who have complied with the law regarding immigration get really PO'd about illegal immigrants being able to benefit from their own misconduct and even MORE PO'd when Trump wants to punish us for being good guys and actually complying. I sometimes think my wife's brother should have just come here illegally 20 years ago, he'd be better off today. Heckuva note.

[johnsimion]

Hi canamjhb,

Re: Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits?

I cannot speak for Norway. However, I know a woman whose son was born in a US Military hospital in France. He has dual citizenship, American & French. He once told me he would never return to France because he would be elegible for the French military conscription.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I also knew a number of people born in Brazil to Dutch citizens and they had dual citizenship.

Here's how it actually works: My eldest son was born in the Philippines while I was assigned there. His mother is Filipina. Our son was issued a Philippine birth certificate and the U.S. Department of State issued him a "Certificate of Birth of a United States Citizen Born Abroad." As a natural-born U.S. citizen, he was simultaneously issued issued a U.S. passport.

The Constitution says you must be a "natural born" citizen to be President. However, "natural born" does not mean "born in the geographic United States." By federal law, our son was a United States citizen the instant he was born. Period. That makes him a "natural born" U.S. citizen and the U.S. Department of State agrees. All that baloney about ***** being born in Kenya simply doesn't matter. *****'s mother was an American citizen. Even if he had been born in Kenya (which is BS anyway), he was a natural born U.S. citizen.

[Bob Denman]

I have a Cousin who was born in Canada. His Mom was German, and was waiting for her paperwork to allow her to emigrate to the U.S.
My Uncle is American born and bred...

Can I send "Cousin Dougie" back to Canada, and trade for someone different?

[UtahPete]

I petitioned my wife to come to America in 1988 and she became an American citizen in 1991. LEGALLY.
In 1994, she petitioned one brother and one sister to come to America, and the petitions were approved. LEGALLY.
BUT that doesn't mean they came here. NOOOOO. If you have an approved petition, you still have to wait until the Department of State determines there is a Visa Number available. As of 2018 -- that is, 24 years later -- one brother is now preparing to actually immigrate. LEGALLY.

Don't tell me that "chain migration" is a big problem, not when it takes 24 years to actually come here.
And BTW the farthest you can go with "chain migration" is brother or sister. There is NO provision for aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. etc. as the misinformed would like to believe.
Also BTW, the law actually says that LEGAL immigrants cannot get welfare. Ask me how I know? Because I had to sign an Affidavit of Support for my wife and my brother-in-law in which I personally had to swear that they would never go on public assistance. You can look it up -- it's Form I-864 and I-864A. I think the problem is that nobody bothers to enforce that law.

I do not deny that illegals are getting free medical care at ERs all across the country. The ERs are required to provide this. But that is a law that could and SHOULD be changed. Just don't blame the LEGAL immigrants for it. Yes, some LEGAL immigrants probably slip by and get stuff free, too, but that's because nobody enforces the law. Non-enforcement of the law is one of the biggest problems we have in this country, both for guns and for immigration.

Those of us who have complied with the law regarding immigration get really PO'd about illegal immigrants being able to benefit from their own misconduct and even MORE PO'd when Trump wants to punish us for being good guys and actually complying. I sometimes think my wife's brother should have just come here illegally 20 years ago, he'd be better off today. Heckuva note.
:agree:

[UtahPete]

I have a Cousin who was born in Canada. His Mom was German, and was waiting for her paperwork to allow her to emigrate to the U.S.
My Uncle is American born and bred...Can I send "Cousin Dougie" back to Canada, and trade for someone different?
Why would you want to? You got something against the people who build your Spyder? :ohyea:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

All that baloney about ***** being born in Kenya simply doesn't matter. *****'s mother was an American citizen. Even if he had been born in Kenya (which is BS anyway), he was a natural born U.S. citizen.
Interestingly, that isn't the case. I was just looking up stuff on dual citizenship and came across a CNN article about Ted Cruz' citizenship. The article states that the law in effect at the time O was born was that to be an automatic US citizen the mother or father had to have been physically present on US soil for at least 5 years after the age of 14. O's mother was 18 when he was born, so if she had been residing in Kenya when he was born he would not have been a US citizen because she wouldn't have met the 5 year requirement. The law concerning citizenship of children born to US citizens while abroad has been changed a few times since 1790 when the first such law was enacted.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Please tell me that we're not lumping legal, and illegal immigrants into the same pile of people... :shocked:
If you're referring to the Pew Research report I link to, yes they are. As many legals and illegals have gone back to Mexico as have come here since 2000.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits?
In England, at least 30 years ago, you do not need to be a citizen to take advantage of their social benefits. At least not in the realm of medical care. I lived in England for a year in 1988-89. During that time I got visits to a physician and a crown on a tooth at zero cost to me.

[UtahPete]

In England, at least 30 years ago, you do not need to be a citizen to take advantage of their social benefits. At least not in the realm of medical care. I lived in England for a year in 1988-89. During that time I got visits to a physician and a crown on a tooth at zero cost to me.
Most civilized countries consider health care to be a basic right and necessity for PEOPLE. Period. None of this bull**** we put our citizens and visitors through.

[Bob Denman]

nojoke We would like to interrupt this discussion with a brief "entre act".
Please enjoy the music! :roflblack:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OtzJtp-EM

[Easy Rider]

Well, don't let me stop you. Get your ass out there and start counting, as any patriotic American would.

Really useful comment, Pete. :duh:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Most civilized countries consider health care to be a basic right and necessity for PEOPLE. Period. None of this bull**** we put our citizens and visitors through.

Is using other peoples money to pay for it part of the basic right? I agree health care should be cheaper but i don't
bust my ass at work to help others who don't work at all. Pete how many homeless or poor do you house at any
given time and what is your limit?

[RinconRyder]

Hi canamjhb,

Re: Does that make me a Norwegian Citizen and eligible for all the Norwegian benefits?

I cannot speak for Norway. However, I know a woman whose son was born in a US Military hospital in France. He has dual citizenship, American & French. He once told me he would never return to France because he would be elegible for the French military conscription.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I also knew a number of people born in Brazil to Dutch citizens and they had dual citizenship.

Dual citizenship is quite common throughout the world now. USA didn't use to recognize it but does now. My two adopted daughters were both Romanian citizens before adoption and are now naturalized US citizens but they still hold Romanian passports as well. No big deal.

My wife was born on an American airfield in Japan but was not a citizen of either country until age 18 when she had to choose. She chose USA but has come to regret it. And before an argument begins.....the only American soil in Japan (and in most other countries) is the embassy. A military airfield is still the host countries property. But this does go to show the lack of wisdom our early lawmakers had with regard to citizenship. Someone born on foreign soil to American parents (and military no less) is not automatically an American citizen but someone who manged to be delivered on American soil becomes a citizen upon birth even though neither parent is.

[RinconRyder]

Can I send "Cousin Dougie" back to Canada, and trade for someone different?

I'll go.

[RinconRyder]

Is using other peoples money to pay for it part of the basic right? I agree health care should be cheaper but i don't
bust my ass at work to help others who don't work at all. Pete how many homeless or poor do you house at any
given time and what is your limit?

What do you consider "other peoples money"? I pay for our entire society through my taxes and have my entire working life. That is the price of getting to live in this society. If you are one of those "I've got mine and piss on you" you don't belong here. That is not what made this country as great as it used to be (and hopefully will become again).

[Bob Denman]

I'll go.

:shocked: Dougie... Is that you?!?

[johnsimion]

Someone born on foreign soil to American parents (and military no less) is not automatically an American citizen but someone who manged to be delivered on American soil becomes a citizen upon birth even though neither parent is.

Someone born to ONE American parent is a natural born American citizen.* It has nothing to do with whether you're military or not, even though it happened that I personally was in the military at the time our eldest son was born in the Philippines. His mother was a Philippine citizen then and he was born on Clark Air Base, which was and is property of the Philippine government then under lease to the U.S. Our son was issued his "Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America" and a U.S. passport within a couple of weeks after his birth in the Philippines. Also see: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/birth-abroad.html

* Another person here mentioned that the rules may have changed over the years but what I describe here was the law in 1987 and is correct today.

[RinconRyder]

* Another person here mentioned that the rules may have changed over the years but what I describe here was the law in 1987 and is correct today.

Yes, the law was changed after the fact. I was referring to the year my wife was born.

[wyliec]

What do you consider "other peoples money"? I pay for our entire society through my taxes and have my entire working life. That is the price of getting to live in this society. If you are one of those "I've got mine and piss on you" you don't belong here. That is not what made this country as great as it used to be (and hopefully will become again).

Do you mean it is not great again?:roflblack:

Okay UP, do you see it now? I was just joking.

[wyliec]

I think it is time to be reminded what a certain structure means to the world, and to our heritage.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Emma Lazarus, 1883


I guess this didn't apply to the Native Americans of that time period.

[RinconRyder]

Do you mean it is not great again?:roflblack:


No, it is not and worse, with our current total lack of proper legislative action it is going rapidly in the wrong direction.

For your consideration:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk

[RinconRyder]

I guess this didn't apply to the Native Americans of that time period.

Nor to the Irish escaping the potato famine.

Nor to the Asians attempting immigration in the last half of the 1800's (and continuing through the first few decades of the 1900's).

Nor to the Latin Americans trying to find a means of supporting their families of the late 1900's.

America tends to embrace very high ideals which seldom are executed successfully.

[Bob Denman]

Sooooo... Where will you be moving to?

And when?

[r1100rider]

Trump wants to eliminate the 'chain immigration' loophole (the one his wife used to bring her parents here). If there were no 'chain immigration' when my parents wanted to bring my sister and I to America, we would still be in England no doubt. We were 'sponsored' by my father's sister.

The only 'wall' I respect is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the Washington Mall. Border walls are an offense to humanity AND an admission that Homeland Security is a pathetic waste of taxpayers' money.
You must talking about those walls every Hollywood star politician,the White House ,and Israel has right those ones that don't work

[UtahPete]

You must talking about those walls every Hollywood star politician,the White House ,and Israel has right those ones that don't work
What is the highest level of education you ever accomplished? Seriously, everything you post is gibberish.

[r1100rider]

What is the highest level of education you ever accomplished? Seriously, everything you post is gibberish.
Ok I’ll go slowly.

the Hollywood stars have walls around there houses

The White House has walls

the congressman Personal houses have walls

Iseral has a wall

they all are effective at keeping them separated from those they don’t want inside there personal space That clear enough?

[JerryB]

Hi r1100rider,

Re: That clear enough?

Did you sleep through your English Comp. classes in school?

Jerry Baumchen

[Bob Denman]

Hi Jerry,
With all of the absurd posturing on ALL sides of this thread: was his choice of sentence structure the only thing that you could come up with?

[UtahPete]

Hi Jerry, With all of the absurd posturing on ALL sides of this thread: was his choice of sentence structure the only thing that you could come up with?
I think anything more would have been wasted on the audience anyway, Bob.

[wyliec]

Hi Jerry,
With all of the absurd posturing on ALL sides of this thread: was his choice of sentence structure the only thing that you could come up with?

Bob,

I know you won't believe this, but on the way home just now (from work) I thought of r1100rider's post, and that someone would say something about sentence structure, and you would defend. I can't believe I was even thinking about this place. I think I need to work out 7 days a week, instead of 5. I think it may be time to do what cuznjohn did. I think my head is ready to explode.

[UtahPete]

Bob, I know you won't believe this, but on the way home just now (from work) I thought of r1100rider's post, and that someone would say something about sentence structure, and you would defend. I can't believe I was even thinking about this place. I think I need to work out 7 days a week, instead of 5. I think it may be time to do what cuznjohn did. I think my head is ready to explode.
I don't think he was defending.

[RinconRyder]

Ok I’ll go slowly.

the Hollywood stars have walls around there houses - So Do I (and I don't live anywhere near Hollywood).

The White House has walls - So Do I (and I don't live anywhere near Hollywood).

the congressman Personal houses have walls - You do not know that.

Iseral has a wall - More like fences in most areas.

they all are effective at keeping them separated from those they don’t want inside there personal space That clear enough?

Is that why an intruder easily scaled the White House fence a few weeks ago and made it almost to the building itself? And his isn't the only intrusion.

Is that why several Hollywood people recently have had to hire armed guards and several others have been assaulted and killed over the past decades?

You blame the Israeli's from trying to prevent terrorists from killing them?

Are those clear enough?

[r1100rider]

Is that why an intruder easily scaled the White House fence a few weeks ago and made it almost to the building itself? And his isn't the only intrusion.

Is that why several Hollywood people recently have had to hire armed guards and several others have been assaulted and killed over the past decades?

You blame the Israeli's from trying to prevent terrorists from killing them?

Are those clear enough?why do
you need to live behind a wall?

and yes I do know many in Congress live behind walls Pelosi,Ryan, many others many like Waters won’t even live in the district they so proudly represent

Why does it matter if you live in Hollywood ?

[No 2817]

The problem with Dreamers is they don't fit the legal profile.

As for automatic citizenship being born on American soil - that has proved to be a major cause of family disruption recently. Congress should resolve that defect immediately by tying the child(ren) to the citizenship of the mother.


I am 65. When I was in my twenty's I was hearing about all the border towns of U.S. and Mexico going broke because of the pregnant women coming across the border and having there children here. The system has been broke for a long time. If they would have changed the automatic citizenship law back in the '70's we would not have some of the problems we have now. You do not hear any mention ever of this, and it is time that it is changed also.

Chris

[Bob Denman]

http://www.newsweek.com/mexican-stole-americans-identity-claim-361000-government-benefits-829940

[vided]

158336

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

What do you consider "other peoples money"? I pay for our entire society through my taxes and have my entire working life. That is the price of getting to live in this society. If you are one of those "I've got mine and piss on you" you don't belong here. That is not what made this country as great as it used to be (and hopefully will become again).

You are missing my point, working as a society is one thing just giving it away is another. if you feel deeply about
helping the homeless then i guess you personally house them instead of asking or telling others to do so. if you
want to take in immigrants that will only drain our taxes then you should take them in.
How would you feel if i walk into your house, open your refrigerator and made my lunch... everyday? I don't know of
anyone on this forum that will say YOU shouldn't but this isn't a democracy when you tell ME and others that we have to.
So again tell me and all of those on this forum how many immigrants do you sponsor or personally take in? If you
are too afraid to answer then i guess the answer is NONE, ZIP , ZERO.
Oh and by the way what made this country great was the self sacrifice of those who came here to work.

[RinconRyder]

why do
you need to live behind a wall? I don't. Already told you that. There is a city-required wall around my back yard because it contains a swimming pool but no walls otherwise.

and yes I do know many in Congress live behind walls Pelosi,Ryan, many others many like Waters won’t even live in the district they so proudly represent People live behind walls for protection from stalkers, burglars and the general public who don't want to leave them alone. Not only politicians but entertainment folks and just plain folks like walls for the security they get. It means nothing more than that. In the old days the President would sometimes answer the White House door if citizens came calling. Not a good idea today. Wouldn't you agree? Way too many wackos out there.

Why does it matter if you live in Hollywood ? Read your own post. I was answering your question....

[RinconRyder]

I am 65. When I was in my twenty's I was hearing about all the border towns of U.S. and Mexico going broke because of the pregnant women coming across the border and having there children here. The system has been broke for a long time. If they would have changed the automatic citizenship law back in the '70's we would not have some of the problems we have now. You do not hear any mention ever of this, and it is time that it is changed also.

Chris

Fully agree BUT it isn't only Mexicans and other Central America people coming to deliver their babies on U.S. soil. There is a very large business operating out of Los Angeles that provides transportation and medical costs for Chinese women to have their babies here as well. This should have been addressed decades ago by Congress but we all know they are interested only in enriching themselves at the expense of the nation.

[Bob Denman]

158338

[RinconRyder]

158336

Except.....you are totally wrong. People here illegally are arrested and deported, sometime jailed if they have criminal activity. O-b-a-m-a deported many more illegals than did Baby Bush or T-rump has to date.

[Bob Denman]

I recently heard a suggestion that we sell California to Mexico: at least that would help pay for the changes in the wall's design...

158339


:joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::j oke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke::joke:

[vided]

Except.....you are totally wrong. People here illegally are arrested and deported, sometime jailed if they have criminal activity. O-b-a-m-a deported many more illegals than did Baby Bush or T-rump has to date.

Not if they live in a sanctuary city/state.

[UtahPete]

Not if they live in a sanctuary city/state.
bull****

[RinconRyder]

You are missing my point, working as a society is one thing just giving it away is another. if you feel deeply about
helping the homeless then i guess you personally house them instead of asking or telling others to do so. if you
want to take in immigrants that will only drain our taxes then you should take them in.
How would you feel if i walk into your house, open your refrigerator and made my lunch... everyday? I don't know of
anyone on this forum that will say YOU shouldn't but this isn't a democracy when you tell ME and others that we have to.
So again tell me and all of those on this forum how many immigrants do you sponsor or personally take in? If you
are too afraid to answer then i guess the answer is NONE, ZIP , ZERO.
Oh and by the way what made this country great was the self sacrifice of those who came here to work.

I have not missed your point but it is totally off base. We, as a society, have some basic human principles and one of them is helping people to need help. Now you can claim, accurately, that system has been greatly abused and I agree however that does not stop the desire, as a society, for us to give aid and comfort to the needy among us. If you don't buy into that premise then you do not belong in the USA. Go elsewhere.

Our welfare programs have been tightened up considerably since the Great Society days of freebie handouts (which almost everyone objected to). There is more work to do which does not create a dependent society of loafers who will not work.

I am not a proponent of illegal immigration but I do think this nation owes citizenship to those Dreamers who were brought here as youngsters and have known nothing of their "home" countries. "We" allowed this to happen (and Reagan is a perfect example) and it is not their fault they are here. There are a ton of Dreamers who are fully integrated into our society, educated (including college) and are ready to take their place in our workforce. It makes no sense whatsoever to not take advantage of their education and talents. THAT is how this nation became the greatest in the world (for a short while at least and was aided in great part by two world wars).

[RinconRyder]

Not if they live in a sanctuary city/state.

ICE operates in every city and state in the country. They perform sweeps even in sanctuary cities. If they catch illegals they are put in the evaluation/deportation system. The cities have no authority over the federal laws or operations.

[Bob Denman]

I am not a proponent of illegal immigration but I do think this nation owes citizenship to those Dreamers who were brought here as youngsters and have known nothing of their "home" countries. "We" allowed this to happen (and Reagan is a perfect example) and it is not their fault they are here. There are a ton of Dreamers who are fully integrated into our society, educated (including college) and are ready to take their place in our workforce. It makes no sense whatsoever to not take advantage of their education and talents. THAT is how this nation became the greatest in the world (for a short while at least and was aided in great part by two world wars).

I don't think that we OWE them anything...
But if we were to offer them a chance at amnesty, and w way to obtain a legal resident status: I wouldn't be dead-set against it.
But what will they give us in return?

[UtahPete]

I don't think that we OWE them anything...
But if we were to offer them a chance at amnesty, and w way to obtain a legal resident status: I wouldn't be dead-set against it.
But what will they give us in return?
That's not a very Christian attitude, is it?

[vided]

Mutt and Jeff are just to predictable and BORING.
I'm going to poughkeepsie to do some picking :roflblack::roflblack:

[vided]

That's not a very Christian attitude, is it?


Neither was this
158340

[Bob Denman]

That's not a very Christian attitude, is it?
That's funny: I don't ever recall saying that I followed all of the Christian tenets...
The Masonic Lodges have a saying: "To the length of my Cable-tow".
It essentially means that they will do what they can to help...

...But that there are limits.

As a Nation: we can no longer afford to give everything to everybody.
I'm saying that if they're willing to give us something in return: I can work with them on finding a solution.
After all: the most useful streets run in both directions. :thumbup:

[johnsimion]

Ok I’ll go slowly.

the Hollywood stars have walls around there houses

The White House has walls

the congressman Personal houses have walls

Iseral has a wall

they all are effective at keeping them separated from those they don’t want inside there personal space That clear enough?

Well, I won't respond to the sentence structure or spelling. I'll just say, "common sense." The border between the U.S. and Mexico is almost 2000 miles long. The walls you describe are MUCH, MUCH smaller and easily defended and BTW they aren't foolproof, either. People scale those walls and dig under them with regularity. There are walls right now in the San Diego area and the drug cartel has dug tunnels hundreds of yards long under them already. Common sense says that a solid wall such as Trump advocates would be ridiculously expensive and it's pathetic to see Mexico laughing at us when he says they're going to pay for it. SAD! Having said that, I have no objection to putting in a VIRTUAL wall; i.e., one which consists of, e.g. laser tripwires, increased drone surveillance, increased border patrols, etc. For that matter, we could have the military patrol the border rather than maintaining bases and getting in wars overseas. I definitely think we need better border security, but Trump's answer only appeals to those who live and die by emotion rather than reason.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I have not missed your point but it is totally off base. We, as a society, have some basic human principles and one of them is helping people to need help. Now you can claim, accurately, that system has been greatly abused and I agree however that does not stop the desire, as a society, for us to give aid and comfort to the needy among us. If you don't buy into that premise then you do not belong in the USA. Go elsewhere.

Our welfare programs have been tightened up considerably since the Great Society days of freebie handouts (which almost everyone objected to). There is more work to do which does not create a dependent society of loafers who will not work.

I am not a proponent of illegal immigration but I do think this nation owes citizenship to those Dreamers who were brought here as youngsters and have known nothing of their "home" countries. "We" allowed this to happen (and Reagan is a perfect example) and it is not their fault they are here. There are a ton of Dreamers who are fully integrated into our society, educated (including college) and are ready to take their place in our workforce. It makes no sense whatsoever to not take advantage of their education and talents. THAT is how this nation became the greatest in the world (for a short while at least and was aided in great part by two world wars).

so i take it you don't let homeless stay at your house that we all own, WHY NOT? Why do you feel society is
responsible but you personally won't take any responsibilty since if you did you would have them staying with you?
you are right it is not the dreamers fault they are here it is their parents who knowingly broke the law so let the
dreamers stay and throw their parents out would then be the right thing to do.
Now is there a reason you didn't actually answer my questions, are you scared that you will be arrested or that
god will kill you, if not then i really don't know why? You do seem intelligent and rational enough to answer my
questions if you weren't afraid for your life.
So again:
If you feel deeply about helping the homeless then i guess you personally house them instead of asking or telling others to do so. if you want to take in immigrants that will only drain our taxes then you should take them in.
How would you feel if i walk into your house, open your refrigerator and made my lunch... everyday? I don't know of
anyone on this forum that will say YOU shouldn't but this isn't a democracy when you tell ME and others that we have to.
So again tell me and all of those on this forum how many immigrants do you sponsor or personally take in? If you
are too afraid to answer then i guess the answer is NONE, ZIP , ZERO.
Oh and by the way what made this country great was the self sacrifice of those who came here to work.

[Holly]

I have a idea to eliminate the border jumpers coming here illegally and save the cost of building a wall.


Plan name........ Border Buddies.



Plan outline......Millions of Americans currently hunt in the US already, it is a multi million dollar industry (if not billions). Through a permit system (sort of like a deer permit you purchase and wear) and background check our government will allow a regulated amount of citizens to patrol the border at the direction of approved border agents to hunt anyone crossing the border illegally. The border will essentially be outlined by humans and no physical wall would be needed. The government will allow the use of non-lethal rubber bullets to be fired upon anyone that try's to cross into the US illegally. These border jumpers will instantly turn around and quickly let their other criminal friends know that trying to cross into the US illegally is a Bad idea. The welts on their body will be proof of that. Think of it as one big paintball game, but more fun.


Plan positives........

1. Through the permit system a new stream of revenue will be insure that there is no cost of this program to Americans.
2. You will have no problem finding Americans that would gladly use their time from work for this yearly vacation.
3. Border states will see a huge increase in their economy ( Airports, rental cars, hotels, bed and breakfast, dinners, tourism, ect)
4. The strain on our country's social programs will see a significant drop.
5. It could be something that family's do together and pass down tradition from one generation to the next.
6. If somehow they got by us, we could quickly alert Border Patrol to their location for quick apprehension.


Plan negatives....
1. Can't really think of any besides less votes for a certain group. :joke:


Remember, I said non lethal bullets. Like the ones police use to fire upon citizens that riot and block the streets. They will not be harmed with this plan.
I know it's in the early stages of development and I'm sure there would be things added that I haven't thought of but, what do you think of Border Buddies before I send it to Donald for approval ? :rolleyes:

[JerryB]

Hi Bob,

Re: There are a ton of Dreamers who are fully integrated into our society, educated (including college) and are ready to take their place in our workforce.

Re: But what will they give us in return?

Do your reading skills need some improvement?

Jerry Baumchen

[vided]

I have a idea to eliminate the border jumpers coming here illegally and save the cost of building a wall.


Plan name........ Border Buddies.



Plan outline......Millions of Americans currently hunt in the US already, it is a multi million dollar industry (if not billions). Through a permit system (sort of like a deer permit you purchase and wear) and background check our government will allow a regulated amount of citizens to patrol the border at the direction of approved border agents to hunt anyone crossing the border illegally. The border will essentially be outlined by humans and no physical wall would be needed. The government will allow the use of non-lethal rubber bullets to be fired upon anyone that try's to cross into the US illegally. These border jumpers will instantly turn around and quickly let their other criminal friends know that trying to cross into the US illegally is a Bad idea. The welts on their body will be proof of that. Think of it as one big paintball game, but more fun.


Plan positives........

1. Through the permit system a new stream of revenue will be insure that there is no cost to this program to Americans.
2. You will have no problem finding Americans that would gladly use their time from work for this yearly vacation.
3. Border states will see a huge increase in their economy ( Airports, rental cars, hotels, bed and breakfast, dinners, tourism, ect)
4. The strain on our country's social programs will see a significant drop.
5. It could be something that family's do together and pass down tradition from one generation to the next.
6. If somehow they got by us, we could quickly alert Border Patrol to their location for quick apprehension.


Plan negatives....
1. Can't really think of any besides less votes for a certain group. :joke:


Remember, I said non lethal bullets. Like the ones police use to fire upon citizens that riot and block the streets. They will not be seriously harmed with this plan.
I know it's in the early stages of development and I'm sure there would be things added that I haven't thought of but, what do you think of Border Buddies before I send it to Donald for approval ? :rolleyes:


158341

[wyliec]

Mutt and Jeff are just to predictable and BORING.
I'm going to poughkeepsie to do some picking :roflblack::roflblack:

I can't make up my mind if I like Kingston or Poughkeepsie better.

[r1100rider]

Except.....you are totally wrong. People here illegally are arrested and deported, sometime jailed if they have criminal activity. O-b-a-m-a deported many more illegals than did Baby Bush or T-rump has to date.
You do realize that ***** changed the way they counted deportation numbers he included the people who were stopped at the boarder

[vided]

I can't make up my mind if I like Kingston or Poughkeepsie better.


Popeye knows :yes:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I have a idea to eliminate the border jumpers coming here illegally and save the cost of building a wall.


Plan name........ Border Buddies.



Plan outline......Millions of Americans currently hunt in the US already, it is a multi million dollar industry (if not billions). Through a permit system (sort of like a deer permit you purchase and wear) and background check our government will allow a regulated amount of citizens to patrol the border at the direction of approved border agents to hunt anyone crossing the border illegally. The border will essentially be outlined by humans and no physical wall would be needed. The government will allow the use of non-lethal rubber bullets to be fired upon anyone that try's to cross into the US illegally. These border jumpers will instantly turn around and quickly let their other criminal friends know that trying to cross into the US illegally is a Bad idea. The welts on their body will be proof of that. Think of it as one big paintball game, but more fun.


Plan positives........

1. Through the permit system a new stream of revenue will be insure that there is no cost of this program to Americans.
2. You will have no problem finding Americans that would gladly use their time from work for this yearly vacation.
3. Border states will see a huge increase in their economy ( Airports, rental cars, hotels, bed and breakfast, dinners, tourism, ect)
4. The strain on our country's social programs will see a significant drop.
5. It could be something that family's do together and pass down tradition from one generation to the next.
6. If somehow they got by us, we could quickly alert Border Patrol to their location for quick apprehension.


Plan negatives....
1. Can't really think of any besides less votes for a certain group. :joke:


Remember, I said non lethal bullets. Like the ones police use to fire upon citizens that riot and block the streets. They will not be harmed with this plan.
I know it's in the early stages of development and I'm sure there would be things added that I haven't thought of but, what do you think of Border Buddies before I send it to Donald for approval ? :rolleyes:

love it. only those who break our laws would be afraid of the punishment.
how many here have or plan to have a bomb shelter with all those nukes pointed at us? if the answer is zero then
it means most are not afraid of what won't happen.

[johnsimion]

I have a idea to eliminate the border jumpers coming here illegally and save the cost of building a wall.


Plan name........ Border Buddies.



Plan outline......Millions of Americans currently hunt in the US already, it is a multi million dollar industry (if not billions). Through a permit system (sort of like a deer permit you purchase and wear) and background check our government will allow a regulated amount of citizens to patrol the border at the direction of approved border agents to hunt anyone crossing the border illegally. The border will essentially be outlined by humans and no physical wall would be needed. The government will allow the use of non-lethal rubber bullets to be fired upon anyone that try's to cross into the US illegally. These border jumpers will instantly turn around and quickly let their other criminal friends know that trying to cross into the US illegally is a Bad idea. The welts on their body will be proof of that. Think of it as one big paintball game, but more fun.


Plan positives........

1. Through the permit system a new stream of revenue will be insure that there is no cost of this program to Americans.
2. You will have no problem finding Americans that would gladly use their time from work for this yearly vacation.
3. Border states will see a huge increase in their economy ( Airports, rental cars, hotels, bed and breakfast, dinners, tourism, ect)
4. The strain on our country's social programs will see a significant drop.
5. It could be something that family's do together and pass down tradition from one generation to the next.
6. If somehow they got by us, we could quickly alert Border Patrol to their location for quick apprehension.


Plan negatives....
1. Can't really think of any besides less votes for a certain group. :joke:


Remember, I said non lethal bullets. Like the ones police use to fire upon citizens that riot and block the streets. They will not be harmed with this plan.
I know it's in the early stages of development and I'm sure there would be things added that I haven't thought of but, what do you think of Border Buddies before I send it to Donald for approval ? :rolleyes:

That actually does sound like it would work great for a very short time -- but don't you think the border jumpers will figure out what's going on and just ignore the rubber bullets and keep running INTO the U.S.? Or, don't you think they might start arming themselves with real bullets and shooting the Americans who are using rubber bullets? This may indeed result in less votes for a certain group, but not the group you're thinking of. Of course, the Americans on patrol will have to start using real bullets to defend themselves and then we can have a real bloodbath. No, thanks.

I have no sympathy for illegals at all, but I think more Border Patrol, drones and laser tripwires would work better with fewer lives lost on either side of the border. Better yet, how about fixing things here so the illegals don't want to come here? More enforcement of the I-9 program against the employers who hire these illegals and a National ID card that must be used to qualify for any kind of government benefit.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

That actually does sound like it would work great for a very short time -- but don't you think the border jumpers will figure out what's going on and just ignore the rubber bullets and keep running INTO the U.S.? Or, don't you think they might start arming themselves with real bullets and shooting the Americans who are using rubber bullets? This may indeed result in less votes for a certain group, but not the group you're thinking of. Of course, the Americans on patrol will have to start using real bullets to defend themselves and then we can have a real bloodbath. No, thanks.

I have no sympathy for illegals at all, but I think more Border Patrol, drones and laser tripwires would work better with fewer lives lost on either side of the border. Better yet, how about fixing things here so the illegals don't want to come here? More enforcement of the I-9 program against the employers who hire these illegals and a National ID card that must be used to qualify for any kind of government benefit.

Don't make it the responsibility of the employer to do the governments job, punish the hooker not the johns.

[RinconRyder]

so i take it you don't let homeless stay at your house that we all own, WHY NOT? Why do you feel society is
responsible but you personally won't take any responsibilty since if you did you would have them staying with you? You are an idiot and now on ignore for your feeble attempt at drawing me into an idiot's argument.

you are right it is not the dreamers fault they are here it is their parents who knowingly broke the law so let the
dreamers stay and throw their parents out would then be the right thing to do. Yup. Nothing like breaking up families to promote poverty and crime.

Now is there a reason you didn't actually answer my questions, are you scared that you will be arrested or that
god will kill you, if not then i really don't know why? You do seem intelligent and rational enough to answer my
questions if you weren't afraid for your life. Afraid of what? Never mind. You will be on ignore by then.

So again:
If you feel deeply about helping the homeless then i guess you personally house them instead of asking or telling others to do so. if you want to take in immigrants that will only drain our taxes then you should take them in. I have five adult children, three of whom are adopted, two from a foreign country (orphans). What has your sorry ass done to benefit others?

How would you feel if i walk into your house, open your refrigerator and made my lunch... everyday? Safe to say I would grab you by the butt cheeks and march you to the door.

I don't know of anyone on this forum that will say YOU shouldn't but this isn't a democracy when you tell ME and others that we have to. Nonsensical.

So again tell me and all of those on this forum how many immigrants do you sponsor or personally take in? If you
are too afraid to answer then i guess the answer is NONE, ZIP , ZERO. The answer is two, Two, TWO. You should learn to read.

Oh and by the way what made this country great was the self sacrifice of those who came here to work. What made this country great was the work ethic of those looking for a better life and a set of laws and customs that provided for the general well being of every citizen. Your statement of "self sacrifice" was a huge joke considering in our early days we had such things as debtor prisons and orphanages. If a substantial number of people like you founded this country we would have wound up like a typical banana republic and our main business today would be money laundering for Wall Street and the mob....

[RinconRyder]

You do realize that ***** changed the way they counted deportation numbers he included the people who were stopped at the boarder

You realize that 'boarder' and 'border' mean two different things?

[vided]

You realize that 'boarder' and 'border' mean two different things?



Oh goodie anotta speling lesson, thanks mork

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

OK, i'm tired from working all day and i am tired of this thread, so who wants to support me now? i need health
care & i need a place to stay & i need a new :spyder2: and i should probably have insurance too.

[Bob Denman]

Holly may be onto something here...
But instead of non-lethal rounds: How about .50 BARs placed at 500 yard intervals...

...With REAL bullets! :thumbup:

My Grampa Denman used to have to shoot the woodchucks that dug holes in his hayfields. He'd set up early in the Spring, and dump a couple of them each year. He'd hang the carcasses on the fences, and it did a pretty good job of discouraging future trespassing woodchucks. :shocked:
How many illegals do you thing we'd need to hang on the fences?

Seriously: give them first-rate night vision capabilities, a spotter, and a 3rd person tasked as a "advance position look-out". That one would come out of the emplacement during periods of poor visibility, and let the gunner know who's coming to the Party.

Who thinks that I'm serious, and who thinks that I'm just joking?

[RinconRyder]

Oh goodie anotta speling lesson, thanks mork

It's not spelling. It is ignorance.

[johnsimion]

Don't make it the responsibility of the employer to do the governments job, punish the hooker not the johns.

All I can say to that is, "Wow, no wonder we have a problem with illegal immigrants." We have Americans who hire these people and you want to let them keep doing it??? My own house was built by illegals working for a major U.S. builder -- that information came direct from our American-born warranty rep himself. The illegals are coming here to work and companies like my own builder are hiring them because illegals work cheap. The people who hire illegals are profiting by breaking the law. To correct your example, the employers here are not the johns, they're the pimps who profit from the hookers.

[Bob Denman]

To correct your example, the employers here are not the johns, they're the pimps who profit from the hookers.

And we're the ones getting screwed! :gaah:
I had a contractor show up here, to put on a new roof. His employees looked... awfully new to the U.S.
I asked him what the story was, and he told me that they were Guatemalans, and not legal.
I told him to leave: take his materials with him, and to NOT return. nojoke

I paid a bunch more for the next guy; but you have to take a stand... :dontknow:

[wyliec]

And we're the ones getting screwed! :gaah:
I had a contractor show up here, to put on a new roof. His employees looked... awfully new to the U.S.
I asked him what the story was, and he told me that they were Guatemalans, and not legal.
I told him to leave: take his materials with him, and to NOT return. nojoke

I paid a bunch more for the next guy; but you have to take a stand... :dontknow:

How did you select that contractor?

[vided]

Freddy, I told you he'd answer to mork :yikes:

[johnsimion]

And we're the ones getting screwed! :gaah:
I had a contractor show up here, to put on a new roof. His employees looked... awfully new to the U.S.
I asked him what the story was, and he told me that they were Guatemalans, and not legal.
I told him to leave: take his materials with him, and to NOT return. nojoke

I paid a bunch more for the next guy; but you have to take a stand... :dontknow:

Good for you. I wish I'd known before we bought our house, but then what are you supposed to do? We were buying from a big-name national contractor. Also, there are many Spanish-speaking guys around here who ARE both legal and really good workers, two of which clean my yard every month and are just the friendliest, nice, LEGAL Mexicans you could meet. I just think one ought to be able to rely on an American contractor not to hire the illegals, which was my original point about enforcing the law through those who hire the illegals (recognizing, of course, that many of them are using other people's SSNs and the employer always says he had no idea). You were lucky this guy was at least honest about where his employees came from. I wonder how often THAT happens ... Wyliec asked you a good question, which was how DID you pick the next guy?

[r1100rider]

You realize that 'boarder' and 'border' mean two different things?
Thanks for the spelling correction and the deflection of facts

[wyliec]

Holly may be onto something here...
But instead of non-lethal rounds: How about .50 BARs placed at 500 yard intervals...

...With REAL bullets! :thumbup:

My Grampa Denman used to have to shoot the woodchucks that dug holes in his hayfields. He'd set up early in the Spring, and dump a couple of them each year. He'd hang the carcasses on the fences, and it did a pretty good job of discouraging future trespassing woodchucks. :shocked:
How many illegals do you thing we'd need to hang on the fences?

Seriously: give them first-rate night vision capabilities, a spotter, and a 3rd person tasked as a "advance position look-out". That one would come out of the emplacement during periods of poor visibility, and let the gunner know who's coming to the Party.

Who thinks that I'm serious, and who thinks that I'm just joking?

Would you shoot someone who is unarmed, and not threatening you? Holly and Randy you cannot answer this question :joke:

[Bob Denman]

If you hang a few of them on the fences...

People die every day, and nobody gets out of here alive.

As for how I initially chose that contractor; the obvious answer is: "poorly". nojoke

[wyliec]

If you hang a few of them on the fences...

People die every day, and nobody gets out of here alive.

s for how I initially chose that contractor: the obvious answer is "poorly". nojoke


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::firstplace::firstpl ace::firstplace::firstplace:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

And we're the ones getting screwed! :gaah:
I had a contractor show up here, to put on a new roof. His employees looked... awfully new to the U.S.
I asked him what the story was, and he told me that they were Guatemalans, and not legal.
I told him to leave: take his materials with him, and to NOT return. nojoke

I paid a bunch more for the next guy; but you have to take a stand... :dontknow:

First off i would like to state all my guys are legal and on the books, now if an employer needs workers and legal
citizens don't want to work what should an employer do? in my area we would probably not have any landscapers or
car wash employees or used tire shops or roofers. i commend bob for standing up and saying no, most would not
want to spend more and that is where the problem is with hiring illegals, they work cheap.
Again i say don't give the employer the chance and he probably won't do it, don't supply the drug addict and he
may not do drugs. Give the illegal a opportunity to be legal, not easy nor cheap for him but give him the chance.

Now RINCON i don't think you answered my question of how many illegals you personally house, why are you
afraid to reply i promise you won't die or be injured in doing so.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Would you shoot someone who is unarmed, and not threatening you? Holly and Randy you cannot answer this question :joke:

by illegally entering someones property (the u.s.) you are threatening and we the citizens of the u.s. can not be sure
of your motives. DON'T TRESPASS, DON'T GET SHOT or NO TRASPASAR, NO OBTENER SHOT.

[RinconRyder]

Thanks for the spelling correction and the deflection of facts

We all know it ain't spelling there Hoss.

[wyliec]

by illegally entering someones property (the u.s.) you are threatening and we the citizens of the u.s. can not be sure
of your motives. DON'T TRESPASS, DON'T GET SHOT or NO TRASPASAR, NO OBTENER SHOT.

That doesn't answer the my original question. Are you doing what you accused Rincon of doing?

The question was based on what Bob suggested at the U.S. border.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

That doesn't answer the my original question. Are you doing what you accused Rincon of doing?

NO. But when you break the law you are threatening and if you are wearing clothes at the time i really won't know
what you might be hiding. Also if you weren't breaking the law why would i even notice you?
So is Rincon going to answer my question now?

[UtahPete]

158379

[Bob Denman]

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: :clap::clap::clap::clap: :firstplace:

And the job is even being done for less money! :2thumbs:

[vided]

She had one of those no show jobs, and she did that poorly :banghead::banghead:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

158379

what job was that?

[Holly]

what job was that?


A "division" teacher....... :2thumbs:

[Bob Denman]

:D Bravo! :clap: :firstplace:

[Lew L]

158379


I like it Pete.

Not that it makes any difference but the current first lady looks and dresses much better.

Lew L

[Bob Denman]

Not that it makes any difference but the current first lady looks and dresses much better.
Lew L
Even though we're not supposed to talk about things like this: :agree: