Rverend Graham

[Bob Denman]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/21/billy-graham-americas-pastor-has-died/858017001/

R.I.P., and prayers for his family and their followers. :pray::pray:

[UtahPete]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/21/billy-graham-americas-pastor-has-died/858017001/

R.I.P., and prayers for his family and their followers. :pray::pray:
Why do people say that? What would be the content and purpose of the prayers? Seriously curious since we hear that so much on the news.

[Chupaca]

:pray:'s to family and friends.... he was all over the place for a long time and build up a following...

[UtahPete]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/21/billy-graham-americas-pastor-has-died/858017001/

R.I.P., and prayers for his family and their followers. :pray::pray:
He was a truly inspirational world class religious leader in his time. Humble and sincere, he preached and lived the gospel of the New Testament. My father was one of millions that sincerely revered him. His was a message of love, redemption and inclusion. He will be sorely missed .

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

He was a truly inspirational world class religious leader in his time. Humble and sincere, he preached and lived the gospel of the New Testament. My father was one of millions that sincerely revered him. His was a message of love, redemption and inclusion. He will be sorely missed .

he was anti semetic & anti womens rights going back to his nixon years.

[UtahPete]

he was anti semetic & anti womens rights going back to his nixon years.
That was before the civil rights and women's rights movements caused people to rethink how their religious beliefs fit into modern society. A lot of things have changed in Christian churches since then.

Also, he wasn't anti-semitic and anti-women's rights any more than he was anti-black. Back then, all Christian churches taught and practiced beliefs based more on the Old Testament than the New. I remember my father, who was the kindest, gentlest man I've known, believed the bible taught that women were to be subjective to men and that non-whites were descended from Cain's branch of the original family and thus inferior (but still loved by god).

[PrairieSpyder]

Why do people say that? What would be the content and purpose of the prayers? Seriously curious since we hear that so much on the news.

We pray for the people he leaves behind, praying for comfort and consolation in their grief.

[UtahPete]

We pray for the people he leaves behind, praying for comfort and consolation in their grief.
That makes sense. Thanks.

[wyliec]

That was before the civil rights and women's rights movements caused people to rethink how their religious beliefs fit into modern society. A lot of things have changed in Christian churches since then.

Also, he wasn't anti-semitic and anti-women's rights any more than he was anti-black. Back then, all Christian churches taught and practiced beliefs based more on the Old Testament than the New. I remember my father, who was the kindest, gentlest man I've known, believed the bible taught that women were to be subjective to men and that non-whites were descended from Cain's branch of the original family and thus inferior (but still loved by god).

Let me get something straight. Your father's beliefs, stated above, at one point were based on the old testament, and then his beliefs changed based on the new testament? What about people whose beliefs were or are not based on any testament, but based on common decency? What a bunch of horse crap that people didn't have a mind of their own, and were led around by the nose based on what the church said, or what they are currently saying. How about not using the excuse I (he, she they) did what I did because that's what's in the bible, or was in the bible at a certain point in time?

[ARtraveler]

Thoughts and :pray::pray: to family and friends. :bowdown::bowdown:

He was truly one of the "great ones." And, unlike some, he appeared to keep his faith and avoided scandals.

There are always some detractors. This is not the place for it. :sour:

[UtahPete]

Let me get something straight. Your father's beliefs, stated above, at one point were based on the old testament, and then his beliefs changed based on the new testament? What about people whose beliefs were or are not based on any testament, but based on common decency? What a bunch of horse crap that people didn't have a mind of their own, and were led around by the nose based on what the church said, or what they are currently saying. How about not using the excuse I (he, she they) did what I did because that's what's in the bible, or was in the bible at a certain point in time?
That's not what I said.

[d.o.spyder-rts]

RIP and prayers out to his family. Dale

[RinconRyder]

There are always some detractors. This is not the place for it. :sour:

You have the right to your opinions but if you are going to toot someone's horn be prepared to accept others' opinions that may differ from yours.

Although Graham lived a cleaner life, as opposed to the many religious charlatans out there, it still does not make his preaching valid or provable.

[UtahPete]

Although Graham lived a cleaner life, as opposed to the many religious charlatans out there, it still does not make his preaching valid or provable.
That's why the followers are called believers. There is no scientific basis for any religion and most practitioners don't claim there is, or feel the need to justify themselves on that basis.

[RinconRyder]

One more thing.....

Please reference this short scene from the TV series "West Wing" from the so-called "book of truth". While 'President Bartlett' and the show are clearly fiction the Bible references are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPjWd4MUXs
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPjWd4MUXs)

[ARtraveler]

You have the right to your opinions but if you are going to toot someone's horn be prepared to accept others' opinions that may differ from yours.

Although Graham lived a cleaner life, as opposed to the many religious charlatans out there, it still does not make his preaching valid or provable.

Both of you tend to disagree with me most of the time. No problem. :yes:

[UtahPete]

Please reference this short scene from the TV series "West Wing" from the so-called "book of truth". While 'President Bartlett' and the show are clearly fiction the Bible references are not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPjWd4MUXs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPjWd4MUXs)
I never called the bible the 'book of truth'. I wish more political leaders would call out the religious charlatans the way Bartlett did. All the references are from the Old Testament, (from which we get the Ten Commandments considered so sacrosanct by those who have obviously never read them) and supports my point that the Old Testament has no relevance to Christianity and only serves to confuse the issue. Charlatans preach everything but the Gospel.

Genesis, from the Old Testament, is where the creation myth comes from and should be considered as such by readers. But, since Christians believe that every word of the bible is the 'word of god', without making a distinction between Old and New, then they are compelled to somehow reconcile their New Testament-based beliefs in Christ's message of hope and redemption, with what they know can't possibly be true (Old Testament explanations of unfathomable phenomena).

Which is why I came to reject all of it, rather than struggle any more with the inconsistencies.

[PrairieSpyder]

You have the right to your opinions but if you are going to toot someone's horn be prepared to accept others' opinions that may differ from yours.

Although Graham lived a cleaner life, as opposed to the many religious charlatans out there, it still does not make his preaching valid or provable.


Oh, they are definitely provable, but you have to die to see it! :ohyea:

[UtahPete]

Oh, they are definitely provable, but you have to die to see it! :ohyea:
Sorry, but that makes no sense.

[JerryB]

Hi Pete,

Re: Sorry, but that makes no sense.

As do all religions.

Jerry Baumchen

[ARtraveler]

Remember Cuzn John? :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Merlot2015]

R.I.P., and prayers for his family and their followers. :pray::pray:


Thank you Billy...the world is a warmer place because of you!

[RinconRyder]

There is no scientific basis for any religion and most practitioners don't claim there is, or feel the need to justify themselves on that basis.

Sure they do. Most religious people either shun non-believers or pressure them to convert to their "one" religion. They will try to justify their beliefs on the Bible or other published writings but there is no proof that those texts had any basis in fact for their pronouncements.

History is full of official Christian teachings on just that and you only need read the front page of any large daily newspaper in the USA to see the effects of other religions and the violence they practice in that regard.

Religions were the first human government and the instrument some people used to control others. The sheep continue to be led to the slaughter.

[Merlot2015]

R.I.P., and prayers for his family and their followers. :pray::pray:


Thank you Billy...the world is a warmer place because of you!

[RinconRyder]

Which is why I came to reject all of it, rather than struggle any more with the inconsistencies.

You are much more elegant than I. About the age of 10 I called the whole thing BS and do not practice anything but common sense.

I remember sitting in my parent's church one Sunday morning and the preacher said something to the effect that "if what we are preaching is not true it is the greatest charade in history".

I have always thought that was the most profound thing I ever heard him say - and perhaps the only truthful thing as well.

[UtahPete]

You are much more elegant than I. About the age of 10 I called the whole thing BS and do not practice anything but common sense.

I remember sitting in my parent's church one Sunday morning and the preacher said something to the effect that "if what we are preaching is not true it is the greatest charade in history".

I have always thought that was the most profound thing I ever heard him say - and perhaps the only truthful thing as well.
:agree: :yikes:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Oh, they are definitely provable, but you have to die to see it! :ohyea:

and how would you know that, are you dead?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

anyone here remember how billy graham wanted to slaughter up to 1 million people in vietnam, does anyone want
to truly defend that action? and then there was his friendship with kim il sung and how he said he was not that bad
of a communist. but since the westboro baptist church doesn't like him he can't be all bad.

[Bob Denman]

It's kind of easy to pick on folks who aren't here to defend themselves: isn't it?
People are allowed to change their minds, and evolve; if their perspective changes.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

bob you are right but what i wrote is kinda hard to defend since they are documented statements he had decades
to take back.
we know hitler was an anti semite, will you defend him and it is because of him we have vw