WAY Off Topic!

[kep-up]

I am looking to my fellows for a bit of help. This has absolutely nothing to do with Can-Am Spyders.

Have any of y'all had any experience with re-tempering small springs? I have an old sxs shotgun, Spanish made, that has weak hammer springs. Parts are no longer available, so I need to re-temper or make new springs. They are flat V type springs and there is enough difference in the springs that they appear to have been fabricated individually by hand.

I know there is a tremendous amount of talent and experience in many different avenues of life represented by the members of this site, and I hope someone can help me get this piece consistently fireable again.

Any help will be appreciated.

[pegasus1300]

I also have an old Spanish double barrel that the springs go bad on every 2 or three years. So far the local gunsmiths have been able to repair it. Mine is a Jana Denver. It will be interesting to see what comes up.

[Bob Denman]

From what I've seen of the process: it's a matter of heating them up, and pitching them into a container of oil. nojoke
That's how my Grampa Denman used to temper leaf springs for firing mechanisms.
Good luck! :thumbup:

[2dogs]

You heat them up to a particular color and then cool them back down in linseed oil. I've never done it but I've see it done.

[Bob Denman]

I'll bet that there are Youtube videos that can better illustrate the process.... :thumbup:

[Fatcycledaddy]

From my experience, you would first want to harden it, then temper it.
When you harden it, some steels are quenched with water and some with oil. Always start with the oil, it does not quench as fast, if you start with water and it quenches to fast, the steel will develop hairline cracks and will cause failure.

Here is some good info from Metalsmith V21.2

Hardening and Tempering

Hardening
If steel is heated to a high temperature, bright or cherry red, and then quenched in oil or water, the atoms of iron and carbon re-arrange themselves in a formation which give the metal a very hard and brittle property. This process is known as hardening. If this metal is heated again to a lower temperature, dull red, and allowed to cool slowly it will revert to its soft state. Hardened steel if only partially re-heated will lose its brittleness and springiness will appear as the heat increases. This process is known as tempering. A pretty simple explanation of heat treating but all you need to know to turn pieces of stock into a serviceable spring. Selecting the right heats will require some experimentation. Every metal treating, blacksmithing, gunsmithing book and even in what I have written here speaks of heats in colors. Ever notice how many colors mother nature uses in painting cherries, and we all speak of cherry red. Cherry red, in medium sunlight, is approximately 1500 degrees. On an overcast day, in a dim shop, 1500 degrees will appear brighter and in bright sunlight will seem duller. A hint: What we are looking for is the 'critical heat", when you reach this heat the magnetic attraction of the metal will disappear. When all else fails the use of one of the temperature testing products such as Tempilaq or Tempilstick comes in handy especially for some of us that are color blind to most shades of red. When your stock reaches this heat quench it in OIL, moving it around so that it cools evenly. Your spring is now very hard and brittle.
Tempering
The next step is to reduce this hardness by tempering. The ideal temperature for tempering steel with .6 to .7 % carbon is 700 degrees f. This may be accomplished in several ways.
a.) Lead melts at about this temperature and you may submerge the spring in molten lead until it reaches the point that the lead no longer sticks to it. Submerge the part fully, and remember that steel floats in lead.
b.) Self-cleaning ovens 700 degrees in their cleaning cycle and you can clean your electric oven and temper the spring at the same time, (My wife hates this trick).
c.) Fiercely burning motor oil burns at about this temperature. if you fill a shallow tin with oil to cover the spring and heat it with a torch until it sputters and burns with a roaring flame until the oil burns away you will reach 'draw' or temper.

You may have read that springs should be tempered until they are blue. If you polish a piece of steel and heat it slowly until various colors appear. The blues begin to appear at about 580 degrees, at this temper you are in danger of having your spring still brittle and it may break.


After the above has been done the spring is ready for final polish. before any polish is done examine the spring with a magnifying glass to detect any flaws.

Cracks of a circular form in the corners indicate uneven heating. Start again!
Cracks of a vertical nature or dark fissures indicate the steel has been burned. Start again!
Dimples, show that there are hard and soft places and indicate that the heating and cooling has been uneven. Start again!
When the spring is perfect in ever respect polish it to mirror finish and place it under test**.

[Bob Denman]

:clap: I KNEW that somebody in here could find some useful information! :bowdown:

[2Paw]

If you use Facebook you might contact Brian he is my Nieces husband and my be close to you, I don't know the area.

Custer's Black Rifle Ranch

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Custers-Black-Rifle-Ranch/424014214286728


(https://www.facebook.com/pages/Custers-Black-Rifle-Ranch/424014214286728)

[2dogs]

I think I'd go buy a new shotgun. :roflblack:

[kep-up]

I think I'd go buy a new shotgun. :roflblack:

Actually have several. But this is a 410 and an absolute hoot on the sporting clays course. When it works..............:banghead:

[2dogs]

Actually have several. But this is a 410 and an absolute hoot on the sporting clays course. When it works..............:banghead:

Find yourself a good gunsmith and have it done right. You'll never regret it. :thumbup:

[Chupaca]

Have done many times but could not explain it better than Fatcycledaddy did. If you venture into it bend a few extras to harden and temper so you have stock...:thumbup:

[kep-up]

okey dokey.
Tomorrow I'm gonna give it a try on the hammer spring for the left barrel. Wish me luck!

BTW, I like to try to do stuff meself. I enjoy the challenge. thus learning to play the GHB when I was 56 years and playing in competition for a number of years.

So, I figger that if the guys in the 17th and 18th century could make springs, I should be able to do it in the 21st century.

[Chupaca]

157690Go for it...:thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

157690Go for it...:thumbup:

:agree::clap: Please let us know how this works out; the best of luck to you! :thumbup: