Welcome to "New California"!

[Bob Denman]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/new-california-declares-independence-california-bid-become-51st-state/1036681001/


Is there any truth to this? :dontknow:

[ARtraveler]

Interesting. First I heard of it.

Looks like the same area where they are saying the "big one" will separate the state and send it out to sea.

Fish, fish, they just may get their wish. :roflblack:

[BoilerAnimal]

If successful, it would probably lead to the formation of one of the poorest states in the nation.

[DJFaninTN]

San Franciso has an interactive map of where all the poop is located on the sidewalks and streets. That is more than enough info for me to know I won't ever return to that city.

[BajaRon]

San Franciso has an interactive map of where all the poop is located on the sidewalks and streets. That is more than enough info for me to know I won't ever return to that city.

Interactive? That sounds unhealthy!

[Cavman]

There’s been Northern CA and Southern OR that has wanted to break away as the State of Jefferson for some time now.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

if ca. wants to be liberal then let it happen, the worst that happens is they find out they are wrong & then have
to pay for it.

[Joe T.]

These people have no clue. If one added Santa Clara and Sonoma counties to the 'Yellow" (old California?), there would be no tax base left. Like Kansas, California does not properly tax agriculture land. "New California" wouldn't make it 5 years before the property taxing went through the roof and they would beg to return. Bad pipe dream.

BTW, I lived in Los Angeles County for over 23 years. Still own property (house in Santa Clarita) there and acreage in Riverside County. Best damn place I ever lived. Most exciting place to work, true visionaries. Not afraid to take risks. Why do you think all of the High Tech companies are in California?

- Amgen
- Google
- Facebook
- Tesla
- Space X
- Scaled Composites
- The Space Ship Company
- Northrop
- Lockheed Martin (Skunk Works)
- Boeing Divisions of the Old North American and McDonnell Douglas
- Hollywood Productions
- Disney

So many more but I am an Aero guy and I don't have all of the other leading edge companies at the tip of my tongue.

Joe T.

[Pirate looks at --]

Just another in a list of "New California's". The last one that fizzled out was the State of Jefferson. That would have incorporated Southern Oregon and Northern California. As mentioned, all of the Money in this scenario would be in California and New California would be scrambling to pay the rent. It is a huge state and the communities are really diverse in terms of their needs. I doubt it would ever happen. We have a lot of crazy people with a lot of crazier ideas.

[Chupaca]

They've been toying with it for years... like Puerto Rico becoming a state or Canada dividing...:dontknow: why not three states...Northern California, New California and Southern California.... we do have an exit strategy 🤔 walk over into Mexico :roflblack::roflblack:

[RinconRyder]

I moved to CA with my family at age 15 back in 1960 and remember they were talking about it back then.

The biggest issue back then was water (and still might be). The north has it. The south wants it.

Now it seems to be politics. The yellow area in the map published on the internet is decidedly urban and liberal while the blue area is largely rural and conservative. If CA were to divide along those lines the conservative area would be almost totally agricultural while the liberal area would have all the industry save AG. I fail to see how the current standard of living in the rural areas could be maintained without the gigantic tax base from the liberal area. Of course, the conservative area could legalize pot (they already grow most of it) and see it to the liberals and thereby create a whole new tax base.

Personally, after living in both areas over the years my opinion is that if they ever did divide up like that there would be a flaming civil war within five years.

[johnsimion]

Here you have a numerically small group trying to run away from policies they don't have the votes to change. I totally get the frustration, but that's how democracy works. For some reason, the "liberal" parts of California just seem to like they way they live and keep voting "liberal." Dunno why, I guess they just like it. As long as there are more of them than there are "conservatives" in the yellow parts, nothing is going to change. Too bad. However, there are solutions. If you don't like things where you live, get enough votes together to elect some lawmakers who will change things the way you like. If you can't get the votes, you either live with things the way they are or you can move somewhere that doesn't have all these regulations and welfare. Somalia, perhaps?

[Little Blue]

Makes for interesting READ. I think that I will PASS on this. :chat:

[Bob Denman]

:D Hey Gene!
I see that they've got you on OUR side of the Border! :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

These people have no clue. If one added Santa Clara and Sonoma counties to the 'Yellow" (old California?), there would be no tax base left. Like Kansas, California does not properly tax agriculture land. "New California" wouldn't make it 5 years before the property taxing went through the roof and they would beg to return. Bad pipe dream.

BTW, I lived in Los Angeles County for over 23 years. Still own property (house in Santa Clarita) there and acreage in Riverside County. Best damn place I ever lived. Most exciting place to work, true visionaries. Not afraid to take risks. Why do you think all of the High Tech companies are in California?

- Amgen
- Google
- Facebook
- Tesla
- Space X
- Scaled Composites
- The Space Ship Company
- Northrop
- Lockheed Martin (Skunk Works)
- Boeing Divisions of the Old North American and McDonnell Douglas
- Hollywood Productions
- Disney

So many more but I am an Aero guy and I don't have all of the other leading edge companies at the tip of my tongue.

Joe T.


ALL, are not. Dell and many more have taken residence in Texas as CA's tax and political climate has become unsustainable for business.

[Lew L]

Dividing the state up is the stupidest idea ever ( other than the train from No to So. Cal) and electing moonbeam TWICE. I dont think it will happen.

I left Cal. going on 26 years ago because I saw the light at the end of the tunnel --------- it was a train.

Lew L

[asp125]

So.. which California will have legal pot?





What.. too soon? ;)

[RinconRyder]

I left Cal. going on 26 years ago because I saw the light at the end of the tunnel --------- it was a train.

Lew L

Me in 1968. Too expensive but mostly way too crowded.

[Bob Denman]

So.. which California will have legal pot?
What.. too soon? ;)

The NEW one will have all of that farmland...

[johnsimion]

Another problem with splitting up California, or splitting off any other section of the U.S., is that nothing is insular. AFAIK the "reddest" red state is Oklahoma, but even there it's still 39% Democratic, and Hawaii is the "bluest" blue state and it's 30% Republican. Haven't heard the percentages of R vs. D in the "New California" but it's safe to say that neither part is anywhere near pure. So ... what happens to the minority group in states that break off or break apart? Seems to me that somebody's always going to be in the minority no matter what. I think the whole idea of secession is a stupid idea that I thought we'd gotten over with in 1865. It would be a lot better idea if we just learned to stop calling names and getting angry just because somebody won an election or we don't like somebody's policy. We'd all be a lot better off if we'd just concentrate on getting along and compromising -- and on winning more representatives for "our" side if we can't. That system worked well from 1865 onward and there's no reason it can't work now.

[Rogue Hawk]

I wish them luck.

http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/05/Gadsden-Flag-Wikipedia.jpg

[Bob Denman]

Another problem with splitting up California, or splitting off any other section of the U.S., is that nothing is insular. AFAIK the "reddest" red state is Oklahoma, but even there it's still 39% Democratic, and Hawaii is the "bluest" blue state and it's 30% Republican. Haven't heard the percentages of R vs. D in the "New California" but it's safe to say that neither part is anywhere near pure. So ... what happens to the minority group in states that break off or break apart? Seems to me that somebody's always going to be in the minority no matter what. I think the whole idea of secession is a stupid idea that I thought we'd gotten over with in 1865. It would be a lot better idea if we just learned to stop calling names and getting angry just because somebody won an election or we don't like somebody's policy. We'd all be a lot better off if we'd just concentrate on getting along and compromising -- and on winning more representatives for "our" side if we can't. That system worked well from 1865 onward and there's no reason it can't work now.

They'll tell you that it's about unfair taxation... NOT Politics. nojoke

[DJFaninTN]

The NEW one will have all of that farmland...


but very lacking in water :yikes:

[PrairieSpyder]

but very lacking in water :yikes:

Without the Cali government forbidding water retention measures, they'll have a lot of water.

[Pirate looks at --]

All of the water in the State comes from the New California. The Sierra Neveda Mountains and the reservoirs in the foothills is the source of all the water in the state, as well as all of the farm land. So they will not be short on water, but it will NEVER happen. ;)

[Joe T.]

ALL, are not. Dell and many more have taken residence in Texas as CA's tax and political climate has become unsustainable for business.


All low margin, mature 'commodity' businesses. Ya' can't compete in the commodity business arena in California. California is oriented towards tomorrow, not yesterday. It's all about new ideas, Intellectual Property that can be exploited rapidly and willingness to take risk.

BTW, Lockheed moved the Burbank Facility, except for the Skunk Works, to Georgia in 1990. Worst dang decision they ever made. After the F-22 program completed, the Lockheed Martin facility in Marietta Georgia has almost died, now just a few C-130s each year. Lockheed Martin Ft. Worth, what used to be General Dynamics/Ft. Worth, took over Lockheed after Lockheed bought GD/FT in 1994. They are now the center of the aerospace business.

Joe T.

[johnsimion]

All of the water in the State comes from the New California. The Sierra Neveda Mountains and the reservoirs in the foothills is the source of all the water in the state, as well as all of the farm land. So they will not be short on water, but it will NEVER happen. ;)

Two factual problems here. First, a very large percentage of the water in SoCal doesn't come from "New California," it comes from Lake Mead. According to the Colorado River Compact, SoCal gets 58.70% of Lake Mead water and also buys part of Nevada's allotment that Nevada itself doesn't use. Second, of the water that does come from California itself, that water is already tied up in water rights according to Western water law. "New California" wouldn't be able to end existing water rights currently owned to that water by SoCal users -- if they tried to, there would really be hell and a lot of lawyers to pay.

[jcthorne]

And a new state would require the approval of the other states. IE congress. Not going to happen. The ONLY state that has the rights to do this is Texas and that will likely never happen either.

Lots of fluff about nothing. CA needs to get its own house in order.

[jcthorne]

All low margin, mature 'commodity' businesses. Ya' can't compete in the commodity business arena in California. California is oriented towards tomorrow, not yesterday. It's all about new ideas, Intellectual Property that can be exploited rapidly and willingness to take risk.

BTW, Lockheed moved the Burbank Facility, except for the Skunk Works, to Georgia in 1990. Worst dang decision they ever made. After the F-22 program completed, the Lockheed Martin facility in Marietta Georgia has almost died, now just a few C-130s each year. Lockheed Martin Ft. Worth, what used to be General Dynamics/Ft. Worth, took over Lockheed after Lockheed bought GD/FT in 1994. They are now the center of the aerospace business.

Joe T.


Lets just say there is disagreement on what defines 'low margin commodity business' and the 'business of tomorrow'. Other than AG, California is hemorrhaging corporations to other states. There are very real reasons the economy in CA is FAR different than that of TX. One is shrinking and has an increasing tax rate. The other is growing and has a flat line tax rate for many years....and no income tax. Keep your free thinkers. We love our get er done folks.

[Bob Denman]

...CA needs to get its own house in order.

:agree: :thumbup:

[Pirate looks at --]

It's pretty much in order at this time.

[BitSlayer]

Interactive? That sounds unhealthy!
Just as long as it is not scratch-n-sniff! :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

Hmmm, did I just say that out loud.... :sour:

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Ummmm... yes: you did :barf:

[Orange Spyder Man]

pretty simple really... STATE TAX CREDITS ..


These people have no clue. If one added Santa Clara and Sonoma counties to the 'Yellow" (old California?), there would be no tax base left. Like Kansas, California does not properly tax agriculture land. "New California" wouldn't make it 5 years before the property taxing went through the roof and they would beg to return. Bad pipe dream.

BTW, I lived in Los Angeles County for over 23 years. Still own property (house in Santa Clarita) there and acreage in Riverside County. Best damn place I ever lived. Most exciting place to work, true visionaries. Not afraid to take risks. Why do you think all of the High Tech companies are in California?

- Amgen
- Google
- Facebook
- Tesla
- Space X
- Scaled Composites
- The Space Ship Company
- Northrop
- Lockheed Martin (Skunk Works)
- Boeing Divisions of the Old North American and McDonnell Douglas
- Hollywood Productions
- Disney

So many more but I am an Aero guy and I don't have all of the other leading edge companies at the tip of my tongue.

Joe T.

[TicketBait]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/16/new-california-declares-independence-california-bid-become-51st-state/1036681001/


Is there any truth to this? :dontknow:

won't happen. and btw, shouldn't happen

[Bob Denman]

:D How come all of the folks in "Old California" keep saying this...




...And all of the folks is "New California", keep saying that they're pushing forward with their plans?

[Joe T.]

Lets just say there is disagreement on what defines 'low margin commodity business' and the 'business of tomorrow'. Other than AG, California is hemorrhaging corporations to other states. There are very real reasons the economy in CA is FAR different than that of TX. One is shrinking and has an increasing tax rate. The other is growing and has a flat line tax rate for many years....and no income tax. Keep your free thinkers. We love our get er done folks.


There is no doubt low margin commodity companies are leaving California. Oil of course, is centered in Texas and Oklahoma. I was born and raised just north of Ft. "Worth. Lived there my first 33 years. My older brother lived in Houston after law school (~197) until last year when he moved to the Hill Country.

So, don't try to argue crap you don't understand. I know both sides. I lived in SoCal for over 23 years (Los Angeles County) and have experienced both. D/FW is so congested now that it makes the 405 look OK.

Here's the kicker: Because of Prop 13, the real estate taxes I pay on my home in SoCal (I still own it - makes me money every year!) has not raised since purchased. Try that in Texas or Kansas for that matter!

Texas is rapidly approaching a 'Come to Jesus' moment. Property taxes rise every year (according to my brother, the Lawyer), sales taxes rise every year. I remember whed John Connally instituted the first Texas sales tax - 1 cent!! My daddy used to say after that: "And a Penny for the Governor!"

So name all of these forward thinking 21st century companies who have bailed from California to Texas.

Again I am an airplane guy. I don't know about all of the used car dealers who have left SoCal for Texas and I couldn't care less.

Check out a friend of mine who left Lockheed and BAE SYSTEMS a few years ago. He is a little older than me not that it matters just is in Geezer Country.

Roger startup with an idea and has turned it into a major aircraft startup. Will it be the Next Apple? No. The next Facebook? Thankfully no. But let's find someone in Texas who has gone this far to land a major US Gov. program.

https://www.sierratechnicalservices.com/

A little more info:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stealth-drones-could-be-us-pilots-new-wingmen

The program will have flying full scale aerial targets in about 15 months (27 months from contract award).

Roger is just one of THOUSANDS of bright, ambitious, hard working folks in SoCal trying to invent the next revolutionary widget.

Rant over.

Joe T.

[Bob Denman]

So I guess that Kansas is a better State than California? :dontknow:


Or do you just like corn that much? :D

[Joe T.]

So I guess that Kansas is a better State than California? :dontknow:


Or do you just like corn that much? :D


Look at my signature line. I think you'll be able to figure that out.

BTW, Farmers and Ranchers are the largest single group of Welfare Queens in the USA. Not a fan because they do not PAY PROPERTY TAX, AT LEAST IN KANSAS. And having to add ethanol to my gas is just one of the Farmer Welfare programs.

Kansas has allowed me to play with airplanes. Roger is designing and building them.

Google 5GAT in about a year. The contract was awarded in ~MARCH 2016. First flight 27 months later. Roger is on schedule.

Nice try Bob. Stick with insurance in upstate NY, something you know about. You have no clue about Texas and California, I suspect. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Joe T.

[Bob Denman]

:D My, my...

Are you just a wee bit touchy about your location.... :roflblack:
I suspect that you'd be unhappy wherever you hung your hat; so I feel sorry for you. nojoke

There's a whole lot more to choosing the best State in which to live.
If one State was the best for everyone: the Country would probably tip over! :yikes: :joke:

I might know a little bit about insurance; but I'm not exactly ignorant about geography... or people!

[johnsimion]

Look at my signature line. I think you'll be able to figure that out.

BTW, Farmers and Ranchers are the largest single group of Welfare Queens in the USA. Not a fan because they do not PAY PROPERTY TAX, AT LEAST IN KANSAS. And having to add ethanol to my gas is just one of the Farmer Welfare programs.

Kansas has allowed me to play with airplanes. Roger is designing and building them.

Google 5GAT in about a year. The contract was awarded in ~MARCH 2016. First flight 27 months later. Roger is on schedule.

Nice try Bob. Stick with insurance in upstate NY, something you know about. You have no clue about Texas and California, I suspect. If I am wrong, please correct me.

Joe T.

Joe - I lived in Missouri most of my life and spent seven long years in the KC metro area before my retirement -- and spent a lot of that time on the Kansas side of the line. It never ceases to amaze me that these RED states have such high taxes. "The Legends" in KCK has a sales tax rate over 10% and that was four years ago. My Missouri property tax was more than I pay in Nevada even though my house here cost twice as much. Both Missouri and Kansas have income taxes that are quite comparable to California -- I'm familiar with all of them because I was a tax preparer for the Army legal assistance program years ago. About the only thing that was cheaper there was gas, but my water bill costing three times more than it does in Nevada (!) more than ate up that savings.

I used to have prejudices against California similar to what you often hear. Since moving here and spending more time in California, I've realized ... it's just another state. If they're bankrupt, it doesn't show. If they're overrun with illegals, it doesn't show. If they have a lot of money, yeah, that shows. There's a good reason property in California is so expensive. It's called "supply and demand." Lots of people want to live there and drive the prices up. That's because it's a pretty darned nice place (traffic aside). The problem is that many people elsewhere make generalizations about "how bad California is" based on a few bad examples, which of course is silly when applied to a huge state that has 40 million people in it.

[Bob Denman]

157173

[jcthorne]

It's pretty much in order at this time.


Thanks, I really needed a hardy laugh with my coffee this morning.

[jcthorne]

Texas is rapidly approaching a 'Come to Jesus' moment. Property taxes rise every year (according to my brother, the Lawyer), sales taxes rise every year. I remember whed John Connally instituted the first Texas sales tax - 1 cent!! My daddy used to say after that: "And a Penny for the Governor!"



Joe T.

I am not going to address your rant other than I disagree with it. But do need to correct these two points on taxes.

My property tax rate on my home purchased in 1986 has changed less than 1% in those 30 yrs. And that was water district due to EPA regs eliminating our well water use. And I live in one of the highest rate school districts in the state (Klien).

My sales tax rate has been 8% since I moved to Texas (Harris County) in 1986.

And as I stated before, we pay NO income tax.

The rates are NOT increasing no matter what the liberals in CA would have you believe in Texas.