Global Warming......yeah, about that!

[Roadster Renovations]

Minus 9 here in Indiana this morning! Too cold to do my annual New Years' Ryde. :yikes::yikes::yikes::gaah::gaah::gaah: If this keeps up we will have to put heaters on our Spyders.:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecture f_smilie::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Been back in 1870...something since we were this low.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
At least this should kill off some mosquitoes for the summer....:clap::clap::clap:

[BajaRon]

Minus 9 here in Indiana this morning! Too cold to do my annual New Years' Ryde. :yikes::yikes::yikes::gaah::gaah::gaah: If this keeps up we will have to put heaters on our Spyders.:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecture f_smilie::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Been back in 1870...something since we were this low.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
At least this should kill off some mosquitoes for the summer....:clap::clap::clap:

One of my favorite pictures.



https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7a/d4/7f/7ad47f7fda52c725fe5658d32904debb--global-cooling-time-magazine.jpg

[Bob Denman]

:D I remember all of that talk about us getting chilled...




...forty years ago! :roflblack:

:shocked: Right now; I could use a little bit of global warming! nojoke

[UtahPete]

Now, don't get me started on this :lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie :

[Lew L]

Well we do live under a variable star ( a G2V type star) on a planet with an elliptical orbit with an axis that does wobble a bit. When these effects come into play the temperature of the earth will seem to change. The stacking effect ( machining and engineering term) is real ( in my humble opinion) Over a LOOOOONG period of time the change tends to average out. Over our SHORRRRRRT lives it may seem to make a big difference.


Let the flaming and fake news begin:doorag:

Lew L

[ARtraveler]

In Alaska this AM: We have 45 degrees above zero. The Pineapple Express winds are blowing again. The snow is melting again. I have not used my snowblower this season yet.

Global warming is noticeable here. The glaciers are melting very fast--as in almost a mile a year now. The Northwest Passage is open in summer and getting earlier each year.

Eventually we may have a Spyderfest in January here. :roflblack::roflblack:

[Road-Kill]

One of my favorite pictures.



https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7a/d4/7f/7ad47f7fda52c725fe5658d32904debb--global-cooling-time-magazine.jpg

If the majority of the worlds population knew how people are manipulated.
Either we are freezing or we are heating up.......what they want is taxes, manipulation and control.
One fact remains.....the industrial age wiped out the dinosaurs. :joke:

[Chupaca]

That is a mite chilly....:yikes: hope you catch a break soon and get in that new year ryde....:clap:

[UtahPete]

In Alaska this AM: We have 45 degrees above zero. The Pineapple Express winds are blowing again. The snow is melting again. I have not used my snowblower this season yet. Global warming is noticeable here. The glaciers are melting very fast--as in almost a mile a year now. The Northwest Passage is open in summer and getting earlier each year. Eventually we may have a Spyderfest in January here. :roflblack::roflblack:
That would be great. Before the mosquitoes!

[Lew L]

You go ahead and believe that scientific BS. Me, I'll get my answers out of Revelations if you don't mind.

Hi Pete,

I am a God fearing man and the bible is very important and not to be taken lightly. But the "scientific BS" does have merit. Too bad some folks have manipulated it ( both the science and the bible) to their advantage by interpreting info to their own gain.

Lew L

[CA Railwhale]

In Alaska this AM: We have 45 degrees above zero. The Pineapple Express winds are blowing again. The snow is melting again. I have not used my snowblower this season yet.

Global warming is noticeable here. The glaciers are melting very fast--as in almost a mile a year now. The Northwest Passage is open in summer and getting earlier each year.

Eventually we may have a Spyderfest in January here. :roflblack::roflblack:

The only problem with that is according to a buddy of mine who was stationed at Fort Richardson, the mosquitoes are large enough to fly away with our Spyders. I'm not a big fan of flying insects than can drain the blood out of me with one sip.

[Bob Denman]

:gaah: If I ever get a chance to grab that Gore fella by the neck... :gaah::cus:

[Indyron]

Let the deniers rejoice, can y’all swim? Hope so.

[Peteoz]

Been back in 1870...something since we were this low.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: ...

I didn’t realise you were that old, Doc.......have you been riding a Spyder all that time ?;):D

Pete

[Mick N]

Hi Pete,

I am a God fearing man and the bible is very important and not to be taken lightly. But the "scientific BS" does have merit. Too bad some folks have manipulated it ( both the science and the bible) to their advantage by interpreting info to their own gain.

Lew L


Not knowing all that is in the Bible despite my religious WASP upbringing, I think the recent high winds, fires, floods, storms, earthquakes... all could be the from the breath of God... a warning? or... you ain't seen nothing yet?! May be something to ponder over while enjoying your morning coffee or your evening beer... I'm not ready, but I am observing with interest....

[UtahPete]

:gaah: If I ever get a chance to grab that Gore fella by the neck... :gaah::cus:
You mean it's all his fault? That, and the internet too? Poor guy can't catch a break with y'all ...

[UtahPete]

Hi Pete, I am a God fearing man and the bible is very important and not to be taken lightly. But the "scientific BS" does have merit. Too bad some folks have manipulated it ( both the science and the bible) to their advantage by interpreting info to their own gain. Lew L
Lew, that was insensitive of me. I'm sorry and will pull the post.

[bmccaffrey]

-21 yesterday
last 2 wks below zero every night

[gnorthern]

From what I read if accelerated climate change by man is real (and there is no doubt in my mind it is), current Spyder riders are too old be concerned anyway.

[ARtraveler]

The only problem with that is according to a buddy of mine who was stationed at Fort Richardson, the mosquitoes are large enough to fly away with our Spyders. I'm not a big fan of flying insects than can drain the blood out of me with one sip.

RE: Mosquitos--In our area (Anchorage), the mosquitos start coming out in May. We refer to them as B-52's. They are big and slow moving. By mid June they are gone. If you wish to go North to the Tundra--watch out. They will fly off with your Spyder. I am just down the road from Ft. Richardson. Coming from MN and WI--we don't have a problem with them. :yes:

[Indyron]

From what I read if accelerated climate change by man is real (and there is no doubt in my mind it is), current Spyder riders are too old be concerned anyway.
You can teach your grand kids how to swim!

[johnsimion]

Well we do live under a variable star ( a G2V type star) on a planet with an elliptical orbit with an axis that does wobble a bit. When these effects come into play the temperature of the earth will seem to change. The stacking effect ( machining and engineering term) is real ( in my humble opinion) Over a LOOOOONG period of time the change tends to average out. Over our SHORRRRRRT lives it may seem to make a big difference.

I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ... people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are. It is the height of arrogance to deny facts just because they don't fit your opinion or your pocketbook, and I honestly can't take anyone seriously who thinks global warming is real because it's hot today or denies it because it's cold outside today. That's not how global phenomenons work. As Lew points out, there are many variables involved in this global phenomenon. The variables he mentions are at a solar-system scale and he's absolutely right about them, but one variable he didn't mention is the one within our control right here on Earth, and that's the composition of the atmosphere. It cannot be seriously denied that CO2 causes a greenhouse effect and the scientists say the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramatically increased over, say, the last 100 years. Certainly that does not prove that the CO2 is the sole cause of the global warming OR that mankind was the sole source of the CO2. OTOH, it seems pretty darned stupid to knowingly pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere in the midst of global warming, whether that CO2 is the sole cause of the warming or simply a minor contribution. Adding more CO2 is like putting fertilizer on the weeds in your garden; it can only make the problem worse. Moreover, while the temperature will undoubtedly average out over a LOOOOOONG period of time, that will be small comfort if the high temperatures make the Earth uninhabitable during the SHORRRRRRT lives of ourselves and our children and grandchildren. That's why the problem can't be ignored -- and why I support efforts to control CO2 emissions [although Chinese coal-burning power plants are such high emitters of CO2 that they should be the first ones to be controlled].

[gnorthern]

RE: Mosquitos--In our area (Anchorage), the mosquitos start coming out in May. We refer to them as B-52's. They are big and slow moving. By mid June they are gone. If you wish to go North to the Tundra--watch out. They will fly off with your Spyder. I am just down the road from Ft. Richardson. Coming from MN and WI--we don't have a problem with them. :yes:

Good, a native that would know about mosquitos in Alaska.
1. Is it normal for the coastal areas to not have that many mosquitos? I have had good luck in the Glacier Bay and Juneau area.
2. Is there a time before freezing weather when they thin out?
3. I was southwest of Fairbanks one time on a forest fire and though thick I was amazed at how well 40% DEET insect repellent worked. Is that true further north in the tundra?

Thanks.

P.S. I know the roads in Alaska are not suitable for a Spyder. This would be in an SUV.

[Navydad]

Our New Years Day ride here in southern Ohio was canceled as well. It wasn't the cold that did it for me. All It takes is heated gear and a bit of stupid and I have lots of both. What killed it for me was the massive amount of salt and brine mix that ODOT decided to dump on the roads just before the huge 3 inch snowfall we recently were blessed with. They used very little last year so they must have needed to rotate the stock. I was in no mood to clean that stuff off of the Spyder in single digit temps and no way were any of the vintage rides going out.

[BoilerAnimal]

I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ... people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are. It is the height of arrogance to deny facts just because they don't fit your opinion or your pocketbook, and I honestly can't take anyone seriously who thinks global warming is real because it's hot today or denies it because it's cold outside today. That's not how global phenomenons work. As Lew points out, there are many variables involved in this global phenomenon. The variables he mentions are at a solar-system scale and he's absolutely right about them, but one variable he didn't mention is the one within our control right here on Earth, and that's the composition of the atmosphere. It cannot be seriously denied that CO2 causes a greenhouse effect and the scientists say the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has dramatically increased over, say, the last 100 years. Certainly that does not prove that the CO2 is the sole cause of the global warming OR that mankind was the sole source of the CO2. OTOH, it seems pretty darned stupid to knowingly pumping more and more CO2 into the atmosphere in the midst of global warming, whether that CO2 is the sole cause of the warming or simply a minor contribution. Adding more CO2 is like putting fertilizer on the weeds in your garden; it can only make the problem worse. Moreover, while the temperature will undoubtedly average out over a LOOOOOONG period of time, that will be small comfort if the high temperatures make the Earth uninhabitable during the SHORRRRRRT lives of ourselves and our children and grandchildren. That's why the problem can't be ignored -- and why I support efforts to control CO2 emissions [although Chinese coal-burning power plants are such high emitters of CO2 that they should be the first ones to be controlled].

AMEN!!!!

One thing it seems far too few are aware of is the fact that China is leading the way in solar and wind energy technologies. The U.S. seems to be content to sit along side the road and watch the world pass us by.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

:gaah: If I ever get a chance to grab that Gore fella by the neck... :gaah::cus:
Yeah! We need to strangle him for inventing the Internet that lets all the foolishness get disseminated so widely, wildly, and quickly! :gaah:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

-21 yesterday
last 2 wks below zero every night
It's been below zero here every night for I don't know long!! Oh, you mean zero F, not zero C. My goof!! :roflblack:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

RE: Mosquitos--In our area (Anchorage), the mosquitos start coming out in May. We refer to them as B-52's. They are big and slow moving.
Right! I heard that one of them flew to Texas a few years ago and landed at an Air Force base. The crew pumped 500 gallons of fuel in her before they recognized it! :roflblack: :roflblack:

[Roadster Renovations]

I didn’t realise you were that old, Doc.......have you been riding a Spyder all that time ?;):D

Pete

Good one! I FEEL that old some days!!

[Biscuit]

I know it is colder in other parts of the country but leaving work Tuesday morning it was 18. Being I work in Atlanta that is cold. I sure do like the heated grips. Made the ride home bearable.

[gnorthern]

The temperature in a relatively small area of the planet for a few days is a sample. The average temperature of the planet over the year is a statistic. The planet is getting warmer.

I first studied global warming in 1973. Since then I have tried to live an energy efficient lifestyle, and our current house is certified energy efficient by the Oregon Energy Trust. But this last go around I decided I won't care until the majority of Americans start caring and bought 4wd SUV.

[gnorthern]

One thing it seems far too few are aware of is the fact that China is leading the way in solar and wind energy technologies. The U.S. seems to be content to sit along side the road and watch the world pass us by.

And decreasing it's use of coal.

[mark4Jesus]

I accept that global warming is real because it's the consensus of the scientific community, give or take a couple of outliers, and because I trust people who are smarter than I am who have actually studied the issue and come to that conclusion ...

About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.

Much of science is educated guesses about what did happen or what will happen. They are still guesses, many have proven wrong.

My un-educated guess is that any warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.

[Bfromla]

:roflblack:156762 :lecturef_smilie:Found after a similar conversation with a bud nojoke FYI the conversation was back in '15 about Louisiana snow , & how only gifted adults get to make snowmen here. But has been done :yes:156763 156764retaining the knowledge till the nxt snow is the hard part. :p:shocked:

[Buckeye Bleau]

.. people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are.

I am am so pleased that you claim to stand on much higher ground, because you trust the "people that have nothing to gain". Mr. Gore certainly made no money from the books, speeches, carbon credit bank scam, and the "smarter" minions that he paid after counseling them to adopt and confirm his project I am sure made nothing from it.

Just because you only read and research one side of an issue does not make it fact.

there are plenty of real, respected and trusted researchers out there that have been bunking this "man made" global warming issue. Most of them admit that we did go through some periods of change in recent decades, but there was also during that same period an unusually high activity from the sun at the same time, meanwhile in the more recent decade we seem to be cooling off.

There is so much more, especially on this CO2 issue, but hey, it is a poison to us so we should limit it, but then we claim that we don't have enough trees and it is good for the trees.

Time will tell, but neither me, my kids nor theirs will be here for the demise, either way it goes.

Joe

[Buckeye Bleau]

"-- and why I support efforts to control CO2 emissions [although Chinese coal-burning power plants are such high emitters of CO2 that they should be the first ones to be controlled"

Now you did it, the Chinese. YOUR famous Paris Accords on climate change that was supposed to heavily tax the industrialized world for their sins against Mother Earth and pass it along to the undeveloped nations was another hoax. Of all the countries in the world China was listed as a developing nation and exempt from the "tax". Really, between China and India I am not sure that we can even scratch their performance. If you have not been there and seen it you should not talk about it, the media won't, but their pollution is outright blatant and without concern.

Joe

[Buckeye Chuck 54]

I have to laugh when I read this. Kill off the mosquitoes?
What are the 2 coldest states in the country?
Minnesota and Alaska.
Those 2 states grow mosquitoes as big as birds!
Chuck


Minus 9 here in Indiana this morning! Too cold to do my annual New Years' Ryde. :yikes::yikes::yikes::gaah::gaah::gaah: If this keeps up we will have to put heaters on our Spyders.:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecture f_smilie::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Been back in 1870...something since we were this low.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
At least this should kill off some mosquitoes for the summer....:clap::clap::clap:

[Buckeye Chuck 54]

I'd love to see it that warm here in Ohio, I could get a few miles on my '14 RT-S.
It hasn't been 45 here in 3 weeks. 9 below this AM. But relief is coming, 11 for the high
tomorrow, but 38 coming Sunday! But rain, maybe the rain will wash some of the
salt and sand off the roads. They are so white with salt it looks like they have been painted!
Cars driving by make white dust. Not exactly Spyder weather.



In Alaska this AM: We have 45 degrees above zero. The Pineapple Express winds are blowing again. The snow is melting again. I have not used my snowblower this season yet.

Global warming is noticeable here. The glaciers are melting very fast--as in almost a mile a year now. The Northwest Passage is open in summer and getting earlier each year.

Eventually we may have a Spyderfest in January here. :roflblack::roflblack:

[Bob Denman]

Back to the mosquitoes for a moment... :D
My Son and I were headed to our deer camp in the Adirondacks for a long weekend of ATVing. We stopped in one of those Yuppie outdoorsy style stores; that sold overpriced stuff to the visiting urbanites...

...But they DID have a huge supply of Ben's 100 bug repellent.
(100% DEET: the GOOD stuff! :thumbup:)
Knowing that anything with more than 37% DEET wasn't legal for sale in this stupid State: I asked the owner why he had it out in the open.
Of course: I had five bottles of the stuff in my hand at the time!
His response:
"I lived in Alaska for ten years, and the goddamned mosquitoes in the Adirondacks are MUCH worse!"

So I picked up another bottle, and happily paid him! :D

Up here we measure them. One that's only two inches (between the eyeballs!), has a lot of growing left to do! :shocked:

[Road-Kill]

This phrase "General Consensus" is complete BS when it comes to the global warming argument.
For that phrase to be legit there must be a list of every climate scientist and their opinion, there is not.
Adding insult to the man made climate change crowd I would like to add....YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT FABRICATING DATA!nojoke

I feel as stated previously BRP, CAN-AM and Harley Davidson manufacturing plants killed off the dinosaurs. :joke:

[UtahPete]

156762
Bring it on!

[Roadster Renovations]

I have to laugh when I read this. Kill off the mosquitoes?
What are the 2 coldest states in the country?
Minnesota and Alaska.
Those 2 states grow mosquitoes as big as birds!
Chuck

They have adapted to the cold there. Here, not so much...
Seems there are two schools of thought on this. I did find this though:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/10/will-upcoming-first-frost-be-enough-to-kill-mosquitos/
With us being in the negatives for the first time in a while, I am being optimistic.

Looks like the best is (or worst) is yet to come:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2018/01/02/monster-storm-to-blast-east-coast-before-polar-vortex-uncorks-tremendous-cold-late-this-week/?utm_term=.c5a91dc62181

[missouriboy]

Back to the mosquitoes for a moment... :D
<snip>
Up here we measure them. One that's only two inches (between the eyeballs!), has a lot of growing left to do! :shocked:Interesting factoid about mosquitoes...

A mosquito is so nimble in flight that it can fly through a rainstorm dodging every raindrop so perfectly that it reaches its destination bone-dry!

(Hey, it must be true! I read it decades ago in a magazine, not on the Internet.)

[greybeard]

did the polar bear ride here on new years day. 0 deg. 75 miles no problem

[Highwayman2013]

I’m not sure if the climat change is our fault or not. It does tend to fluctuate once every few years or so. That said 2017 was the hottest year on record in Las Vegas,NV. Of course weather records have only been kept here since 1937 so...

[ARtraveler]

Good, a native that would know about mosquitos in Alaska.
1. Is it normal for the coastal areas to not have that many mosquitos? I have had good luck in the Glacier Bay and Juneau area.
2. Is there a time before freezing weather when they thin out?
3. I was southwest of Fairbanks one time on a forest fire and though thick I was amazed at how well 40% DEET insect repellent worked. Is that true further north in the tundra?

Thanks.

P.S. I know the roads in Alaska are not suitable for a Spyder. This would be in an SUV.

I am not an "expert" on the flying vampires. But here goes.

1. Sounds logical--no scientific information though. Those that go "far north" can expect to wear a headnet to keep the critters at bay. They do get fierce up there.

2. Freezing weather will thin them out. You get that just south of Fairbanks in early September and even a bit earlier north of the Arctic Circle.

3. The high concentration of DEET does keep them at bay.

4. The bad roads are somewhat of a myth. We do have a large paved road system (Hwy 1, 2, 3, 4) that kind of makes an inland circle. Get off the road system and above the Arctic Circle and the roads are not Spyder friendly, unless you like gravel, frost heaves, and pot holes. I have over 140,000 Spyder miles on AK roads.

[CA Railwhale]

About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.

Much of science is educated guesses about what did happen or what will happen. They are still guesses, many have proven wrong.

My un-educated guess is that any warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.

I'm suspicious about the data sources. I know for a fact that the temp sensor for downtown Los Angeles was moved from a green belt in Exposition Park to the center of a concrete plaza at the Department of Water and Power. I know that's a fact because I installed the phone and data lines that the sensor reports on. Climate change exists, the climate has always been changing, but how much of it is man-made and how much of a threat is it in reality? Some places will get warmer and less fertile, others with get warmer and more fertile. It's not the end of the world, Homo Sapiens is a very adaptable species.

[UtahPete]

warming that has taken place is because of the radiant heat produced by all of the concrete and asphalt that has been poured in the last 50 years. March across a grass field, then across an asphalt road in Mississippi in August and you will see what I mean. I live in a rual area. The temps in the city range anywhere from 5-10 warmer. It's radiant heat.
I agree that is a major source of man-made warming, but certainly not the only one. The first step is to agree there is an adverse impact on our environment from man-made sources. Some we can do something about and some we can't. But, first we have to stop burying our head in the sand and acknowledge what is going on and why.

[GaryTheBadger]

There's a big difference between weather and climate.

[Big Juice]

Minus 9 here in Indiana this morning! Too cold to do my annual New Years' Ryde. :yikes::yikes::yikes::gaah::gaah::gaah: If this keeps up we will have to put heaters on our Spyders.:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecture f_smilie::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Been back in 1870...something since we were this low.:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
At least this should kill off some mosquitoes for the summer....:clap::clap::clap:
I've been to Alaska, cold doesn't work on those Hummingbird size skeeters.......so not sure it will work here in the lower 48.....wish it would though!

[johnsimion]

.. people who have nothing to gain from drawing that conclusion, unlike people who have a financial stake in unlimited growth and things the way they are.

I am am so pleased that you claim to stand on much higher ground, because you trust the "people that have nothing to gain". Mr. Gore certainly made no money from the books, speeches, carbon credit bank scam, and the "smarter" minions that he paid after counseling them to adopt and confirm his project I am sure made nothing from it.

Just because you only read and research one side of an issue does not make it fact.

there are plenty of real, respected and trusted researchers out there that have been bunking this "man made" global warming issue. Most of them admit that we did go through some periods of change in recent decades, but there was also during that same period an unusually high activity from the sun at the same time, meanwhile in the more recent decade we seem to be cooling off.

There is so much more, especially on this CO2 issue, but hey, it is a poison to us so we should limit it, but then we claim that we don't have enough trees and it is good for the trees.

Time will tell, but neither me, my kids nor theirs will be here for the demise, either way it goes.

Joe

It is difficult to respond to your responses without a flame, but here goes:

1) I never claimed to rely on what Al Gore says. I said I was relying on scientists. Al Gore is not a scientist, is he? So, you simply inserted something entirely extraneous into my own post to try to make me look bad. [Snarky comment 1 deleted here].

2. "Plenty of real, respected and trusted researchers that have been debunking this 'man made' global warming issue." Again, you're twisting things. I didn't say that scientists agree that global warming was man-made. What I actually said was that scientists agree that global warming is real. [Snarky comment 2 deleted here]. As I pointed out based on Lew's post -- and as you pointedly ignored -- the cause may be in the solar system itself but the phenomenon is definitely real. While we're on the man-made issue WHICH I DO NOT CLAIM, however, exactly WHO are these so-called respected scientists who disagree that global warming is man made? Because NASA lists 18 scientific associations that agree that it is both real and man-made. See https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/. When NASA and 18 scientific associations agree on the issue, it starts to sound like that's the consensus and the "respected scientists" you are talking about are simply the "outliers" that I mentioned in the first post.

3. "There is so much more, especially on this CO2 issue, but hey, it is a poison to us so we should limit it, but then we claim that we don't have enough trees and it is good for the trees." Whoever said CO2 was a poison? Who claimed we don't have enough trees? I've never heard anyone make either claim. Again, you're inserting stuff into my post that I never said or claimed. [Snarky comment 3 deleted here].

4. "YOUR famous Paris Accords on climate change that was supposed to heavily tax the industrialized world for their sins against Mother Earth and pass it along to the undeveloped nations was another hoax. Of all the countries in the world China was listed as a developing nation and exempt from the "tax". Really, between China and India I am not sure that we can even scratch their performance. If you have not been there and seen it you should not talk about it, the media won't, but their pollution is outright blatant and without concern." Last time I checked, "I" didn't sign the Paris Accords on climate change, so it's not "MINE." As a matter of fact, I would have to agree that criticism of them with regard to China and India is legitimate; however the mere fact that the agreement is flawed merely means it needs fixing. You cannot seriously argue that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. The degree to which it may or may not contribute to global warming is open to debate, but as I pointed out, contributing more and more CO2 to the atmosphere is the equivalent of fertilizing the weeds in your garden. It can't help and it might hurt. The Paris Accords may be flawed -- ARE flawed -- but like so many things that are well-intentioned, the correct response was to fix what's wrong. Running away from a problem is just chicken and piss-poor leadership.

[Lew L]

Many years ( lets say 70 or so) NOAA and other weather agencies put weather stations near cities BUT unaffected by the pavement and concrete. The cities GREW to encompass the weather stations ( I've seen one in a parking lot) and now MANY are in the " heat Island" as stated above. Will this effect the temperature data?????? I believe so.

Not mentioned in my previous rant about Global Warming------ Ocean currents in both the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans vary on multi decade long cycles just like sun spots. Again the stacking effect of many energies effecting the temperature of the Earth ( both lowering and raising it). The Pacific is greatly effected by the El Nino a La Nina current changes. Right NOW a huge COLD system is headed to the Atlantic. Will it effect the Gulf Stream current as it goes north and them passes Scotland on its way to make weather changes NEXT year???


OH ya------ The "Mounder Minium " -- A very cold period of low temperature just a blink of geological time in the recent past (1645 to 1710 or so). " The year without a summer" and George Washington crossing a Frozen river might have something to do with the stacking of earths' and suns many weather related phenomenon.

Well the flaming will continue and I'll try to find more interesting facts about " Global Warming"

Lew L

[johnsimion]

About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming. Hasn't happened, now we are going the other way. There was concensus amoung scientists that Neanderthal man was part of the evolutionary chain leading to homo sapien, saw it in all my science books. About 10-15 years ago, they discovered that Neanderthal and homo sapien were contemporaries in the Middle East, Neanderthals died out and homo sapien continued.

The "ice age" consensus was not real, it was media-driven. See https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm
"A survey of peer reviewed scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 show that few papers predicted global cooling (7 in total). Significantly more papers (42 in total) predicted global warming (Peterson 2008 (http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1)). The large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than 1970s scientists predicting cooling, the opposite is the case."

I also went to school in the 1970s and never once did I hear that Neanderthals were supposedly part of the evolutionary chain. Moreover, I've found a 1992 NY Times article (precisely 15 years ago) that says this about your so-called "consensus": "Scientists have been arguing about Neanderthals since the discovery of a partial skull in a cave in the Neander Valley of Germany in 1856." http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/science/neanderthals-dead-end-or-ancestor.html?pagewanted=all. Arguing about it since 1856. Now that's some consensus you have there!

[Bob Denman]

With all of this talk of Global warming: what oil will you use in your Spyder? :dontknow:


...And let's not forget about tire pressures! :D

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

it's a pity that i like beef since cows are one of the largest producers of green house gas, well them & my wife

[UtahPete]

it's a pity that i like beef since cows are one of the largest producers of green house gas, well them & my wife
Arrrgggghhh ... how's your marriage doing?

[ARtraveler]

With all of this talk of Global warming: what oil will you use in your Spyder? :dontknow:


...And let's not forget about tire pressures! :D

Thanks for keeping it :spyder2::f_spider::ani29:. :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[Deanna777]

-21 yesterday
last 2 wks below zero every nightThis past week-end it was -24 below in Derby VT . This week-end the wind chill temps -45 below, we need a break from the DEEP FREEZE soon. Tomorrow a snow storm, then back to the deep freeze. Send the bitter cold back to Canada.

Hurry up spring!

Deanna

[bmccaffrey]

i don'y really give a rats ass about all these scientific explanations

IT'S COLD PERIOD!!

[Deanna777]

i don'y really give a rats ass about all these scientific explanations

IT'S COLD PERIOD!!:agree: To dam COLD! Deanna

[Bob Denman]

it's a pity that i like beef since cows are one of the largest producers of green house gas, well them & my wife

:D Don't forget Bob... :roflblack:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsqbxwQLeEE

[CA Railwhale]

There is an old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Doing something just to do something without thinking through the consequences is worse than doing nothing. The Paris Accord will do nothing to stop or even slow climate change. All it does is to destroy the economy's of the first world and transfer wealth to the third world. To make a meaningful stride towards slowing the climate change, you'd have to reduce the population of the entire world to dark ages level and eliminate modern technology. Even that wouldn't stop it because most of the causes aren't driven by mankind.

[Mikey]

Interesting factoid about mosquitoes...

A mosquito is so nimble in flight that it can fly through a rainstorm dodging every raindrop so perfectly that it reaches its destination bone-dry!

(Hey, it must be true! I read it decades ago in a magazine, not on the Internet.)
I thought I just say one dodge a snow flake up here on my patio!!:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: He had his helmet on, he was safe:D it snowing so hard I cant see the mailbox.

[BajaRon]

There is an old saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Doing something just to do something without thinking through the consequences is worse than doing nothing. The Paris Accord will do nothing to stop or even slow climate change. All it does is to destroy the economy's of the first world and transfer wealth to the third world. To make a meaningful stride towards slowing the climate change, you'd have to reduce the population of the entire world to dark ages level and eliminate modern technology. Even that wouldn't stop it because most of the causes aren't driven by mankind.

The planet has been much warmer (many times) than it is now. It has also been much colder (many times) than it is now. Every previous warm/cold event had nothing to do with human population or activity. This is a fact that no one is debating.

[gnorthern]

About that: There was concensus among scientists in the 60's and 70's, when I was in school, that there was an ice age coming.

I studied natural resources management from 1972 to 1976. I studied temperatures follow cycles and we were going to enter a cooling phase, CO2 was increasing, particulate matter was decreasing (bad for lungs but cools the earth), plant growth increases in response to CO2 thus removing it from the air, we were destroying the ability of plant growth on the earth to act as a buffer, ... I am guessing the consensus was they had no idea what would happen.

btw - Since I planned clearcuts, environmental groups made it clear people like me were bad.

[UtahPete]

I studied natural resources management from 1972 to 1976. I studied temperatures follow cycles and we were going to enter a cooling phase, CO2 was increasing, particulate matter was decreasing (bad for lungs but cools the earth), plant growth increases in response to CO2 thus removing it from the air, we were destroying the ability of plant growth on the earth to act as a buffer, ... I am guessing the consensus was they had no idea what would happen. btw - Since I planned clearcuts, environmental groups made it clear people like me were bad.
That was before personal computers, smart phones and digital cameras, etc. I think science has made some strides since then.

[CA Railwhale]

The planet has been much warmer (many times) than it is now. It has also been much colder (many times) than it is now. Every previous warm/cold event had nothing to do with human population or activity. This is a fact that no one is debating.

You are absolutely correct. While mankind has some effect on climate change, nothing we do can control it. We should exert reasonable efforts to not abuse the Earth, limiting pollution and recycling and such, but the alarmists need to wrap their heads around the fact they there is little we can do to affect the climate. One of the big problems the alarmists have is that they view the last hundred years or so as the baseline temp of the planet. It isn't. It also probably isn't the ideal temp for the entire planet since much of the fresh water is tied up in ice caps and glaciers.

[UtahPete]

You are absolutely correct. While mankind has some effect on climate change, nothing we do can control it. We should exert reasonable efforts to not abuse the Earth, limiting pollution and recycling and such, but the alarmists need to wrap their heads around the fact they there is little we can do to affect the climate. One of the big problems the alarmists have is that they view the last hundred years or so as the baseline temp of the planet. It isn't. It also probably isn't the ideal temp for the entire planet since much of the fresh water is tied up in ice caps and glaciers.
That's fine. Just as long as the taxpayers don't have to bail out all the property owners that find themselves literally under water as the seas rise.

[kep-up]

That's fine. Just as long as the taxpayers don't have to bail out all the property owners that find themselves literally under water as the seas rise.

We bail them out now when a big storm washes their multi-million dollar house off the barrier reef.

[UtahPete]

We bail them out now when a big storm washes their multi-million dollar house off the barrier reef.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[CA Railwhale]

That's fine. Just as long as the taxpayers don't have to bail out all the property owners that find themselves literally under water as the seas rise.

I agree with you. If you live in a flood zone, or low-lying coastal zone, it's on you. When I worked for AT&T I repeatedly went to the same beach houses to repair or rerun wiring after their decks, which actually ran out over the breakers, were destroyed by winter storms. In many occasions the seaward wall of the house was caved in. I asked a couple of the homeowners why they lived there and they all said that paying to repair the damage was the cost of a great view.

[MRH]

The anecdotal experience in one area in one season is just one data point of many. It's like saying that because you saw a good movie that overall movies are getting better. You just saw one movie. One the other hand, the average temperatures are rising and we do have a large number of extreme weather events.

Even anecdotally, does the overall weather in the country really feel normal? How many floods, fires, and hurricanes have we had on the last year or so?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Arrrgggghhh ... how's your marriage doing?

quite well as long as at times i keep distance.

[BajaRon]

The anecdotal experience in one area in one season is just one data point of many. It's like saying that because you saw a good movie that overall movies are getting better. You just saw one movie. One the other hand, the average temperatures are rising and we do have a large number of extreme weather events.

Even anecdotally, does the overall weather in the country really feel normal? How many floods, fires, and hurricanes have we had on the last year or so?

What is normal? I think this is a question that needs to be asked more often.

[kep-up]

Might it be possible that a lot of these "catastrophic" events happened 50 years ago, but there wasn't immediate 24 hour news coverage on multiples of news stations? Therefore, it wasn't known worldwide as it is now?

Might it be possible that during the last 50 years more humans decided to actually build expensive houses and live in "catastrophe" prone areas?

Might it be possible that "catastrophes" such as forest fires and storms could be a good thing except for the statement above? After all, for thousands of years these were natures way of rejuvenating itself. Why do some of us humans think we know better than nature? Why don't we humans learn to live with nature instead of expecting nature to live around our egotistical desires?

Just askin'...........

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Might it be possible that "catastrophes" such as forest fires and storms could be a good thing except for the statement above? After all, for thousands of years these were natures way of rejuvenating itself. Why do some of us humans think we know better than nature? Why don't we humans learn to live with nature instead of expecting nature to live around our egotistical desires?
I don't know why we get so all fire worked up about the environment. After all, in the end Mother Nature is going to win anyway! :banghead: Sometimes I think all we will accomplish is to delay the eventual extinction of mankind by a thousand years or so! Think about it. Dinosaurs went extinct and they were a whole lot more in tune with nature than we are!

[rustynail51]

As just an observer leave it to the people that it is going to really going to effect like our Children and grand children we should just keep doing what we always do and write off all these people that think they are smart because they have a degree from some prestigious college I still have relatively clean air to breath and clean water to drink so what is the problem. I live in a town with a railroad switch yard I watch several large coal trains go through every day but since I don't live next to the power plant why should I worry about co2 or any other emissions, the only problem I have is when there is a light south breeze I have to breath in the diesel fumes from the train engines but why should anyone not affected by this be concerned. What I'm getting at is we have the opportunity to save something for future and possibility prevent even greater sacrifices the next generations why not select that path instead of the one where we keep doing what we always do and trying to do the cleanup after every thing go to hell..

[BajaRon]

https://weather.com/science/nature/news/2018-01-04-shark-frozen-cape-cod-bay

[kep-up]

As just an observer leave it to the people that it is going to really going to effect like our Children and grand children we should just keep doing what we always do and write off all these people that think they are smart because they have a degree from some prestigious college I still have relatively clean air to breath and clean water to drink so what is the problem. I live in a town with a railroad switch yard I watch several large coal trains go through every day but since I don't live next to the power plant why should I worry about co2 or any other emissions, the only problem I have is when there is a light south breeze I have to breath in the diesel fumes from the train engines but why should anyone not affected by this be concerned. What I'm getting at is we have the opportunity to save something for future and possibility prevent even greater sacrifices the next generations why not select that path instead of the one where we keep doing what we always do and trying to do the cleanup after every thing go to hell..

College degrees? Don't mean squat without some common sense.

I KNOW!!!
Let's all turn off our electric lights and our electrically controlled heat or our electric heat. Then the power plant won't have to burn soooo much coal!
Wind turbines? They kill birds and insects! Can't have that!
Solar panels? Don't work when the sun doesn't shine. Besides they take too much space for the amount of output.
Treadmills? Animal rights people wouldn't like that and slavery is illegal and us rich people wouldn't want to run it ourselves. (we go to the gym to run on a treadmill. never could figger that one out)

ps: your sentences were sooo looong I had to reread your post twice to get any sense out of it. (Not picking a fight, just making an observation.)

Sincerely,
Crotchety Old Man

[Easy Rider]

College degrees? Don't mean squat without some common sense.


P.S. Your "examples" exhibit a total lack of common sense.......college degree or not.

[CA Railwhale]

Might it be possible that a lot of these "catastrophic" events happened 50 years ago, but there wasn't immediate 24 hour news coverage on multiples of news stations? Therefore, it wasn't known worldwide as it is now?

Might it be possible that during the last 50 years more humans decided to actually build expensive houses and live in "catastrophe" prone areas?

Might it be possible that "catastrophes" such as forest fires and storms could be a good thing except for the statement above? After all, for thousands of years these were natures way of rejuvenating itself. Why do some of us humans think we know better than nature? Why don't we humans learn to live with nature instead of expecting nature to live around our egotistical desires?

Just askin'...........

From my personal experience living in So Cal for over fifty years, people ARE building expensive homes in destruction-prone areas. Especially along the coast. In the sixties beach houses were set back from the water even at high tide. Now they are built out over the water so more people can indulge in "beach living" even if there is no beach. Forest fires are a normal part of the So Cal environment, some species of plants and trees here can't reproduce without fire damage according to a So Cal Ecology class I took way back in college. One of the reasons we have these mega fires is that humans stop the small fires before they can burn off the undergrowth as nature intended. We also build in flood plains or on landfill like San Francisco has done. Most of the Bay Front property in San Francisco and Oakland is fill made up of sand, dirt and oyster shells done in the nineteenth century to expand the cities into the bay.

[Bike-O-Din]

156861

[rustynail51]

I have noticed big changes in the sixty six I have existed on this planet don't know if they are good or not, but in the year of 1997 we here in the red river valley had over 100 inches of snow new record i went out and spent time with friends to help sand bag homes. We had one of the worst floods in modern times the whole downtown of Grand Forks burned and flooded because the dikes over flowed and emergency vehicles couldn't get to where they needed, it wasn't but a year or two later we we're flooded again the emergency management officials in Fargo evacuated the nursing home i worked at saying it was another 100 year flooding event, the memory of the last flood was still fresh in my memory. To say that every thing hunky dory is in my opinion is not right. Hope my punctuation and sentence construction is better, my son is an English teacher not me. I know I am opinionated but that is just me.

[missouriboy]

P.S. Your "examples" exhibit a total lack of common sense.......college degree or not.You just exhibited your total inability to recognize irony......college degree or not. :sour:

[Easy Rider]

You just exhibited your total inability to recognize irony......college degree or not. :sour:

That too. :lecturef_smilie:

[Fat Baxter]

Getting back to the original post, I too passed on my annual New Year's Day ride. The high that day in south central Alabama was a balmy 34 degrees with blustery wind. I wimped out.

As to the global warming/cooling discussion, some nuggets I've picked up:

- Several decades ago (and I forget which way the threat was trending back then), some climate scientist put up a slide that proclaimed DOOM, DESTRUCTION, and EXTINCTION if we didn't change our ways. Then one guy in the back spoke up. "Excuse me, but I've seen that same trend line in another forum. I'm an astronomer, and that looks almost exactly like the surface temperature trends over time for Mars and Venus." The point being that the sun is likely the largest driver of variations in Earth's surface temperature.

- I might be more amenable to the arguments that "many scientists agree," if there weren't so many stories out there where scientists have demonstrated that others have been cooking the books on their data. "Watts Up With That (https://wattsupwiththat.com/)" is one well-known blog that captures this.

- I'm especially leery when politicians climb on board an issue and start offering solutions. Most politicians don't know enough to sell K-Y jelly in a bordello. Oddly enough, almost all of their solutions entail taking more money from me and handing it to their cronies. Most of the green initiatives funded by the previous administration (e.g., Solyndra) soon went under after they received their millions of tax dollars. Funny how that happens.

[UtahPete]

- Several decades ago (and I forget which way the threat was trending back then), some climate scientist put up a slide that proclaimed DOOM, DESTRUCTION, and EXTINCTION if we didn't change our ways. Then one guy in the back spoke up. "Excuse me, but I've seen that same trend line in another forum. I'm an astronomer, and that looks almost exactly like the surface temperature trends over time for Mars and Venus."
You sure you didn't just stumble into a tent revival meeting? :pray:

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

why worry, in another 100,000 or so years the climate will cycle again

[rustynail51]

To say that man has not had an effect on the climate is ridicules. We've had an impact on almost every facet of our environment from tho water we drink to the air we breath, the earth is constantly in flux. I believe what the human creatures on this planet have done is to change the rate of that change. We aren't going to stop this change in its tracks but steps taken now could slow it down. We can also look at things that are advantageous to all of us like higher efficiency form the cars we drive to electrical generation. this saves us the expense of building more power plants and our automobiles have less of an impact on air quality, LED light bulbs give us more light while using less electricity saving everyone money. Common sense is a valuable commodity and we need it.Common sense tells me I don't want to go back to the model t or or using a 100 watt bulb when a 15 watt will do or to the good old days when power plants, factories and mining operations spewed everything into our air and water with out environmental regulation every time we make thing more efficient we cure many problems. Ain't technology great

[UtahPete]

To say that man has not had an effect on the climate is ridicules. We've had an impact on almost every facet of our environment from tho water we drink to the air we breath, the earth is constantly in flux. I believe what the human creatures on this planet have done is to change the rate of that change. We aren't going to stop this change in its tracks but steps taken now could slow it down. We can also look at things that are advantageous to all of us like higher efficiency form the cars we drive to electrical generation. this saves us the expense of building more power plants and our automobiles have less of an impact on air quality, LED light bulbs give us more light while using less electricity saving everyone money. Common sense is a valuable commodity and we need it.Common sense tells me I don't want to go back to the model t or or using a 100 watt bulb when a 15 watt will do or to the good old days when power plants, factories and mining operations spewed everything into our air and water with out environmental regulation every time we make thing more efficient we cure many problems. Ain't technology great

:agree:
Thanks for the ramble. We need to work together to solve this problem, and avoid the partisan bickering that has Congress deadlocked on this and other important issues of our time.

[Easy Rider]

We need to work together to solve this problem, not engage in partisan bickering.

I think you need to explain your comment a bit.

I saw NOTHING in his post that could be characterized as "partisan".

Unless maybe you think the other side of the "argument" is that we should just let everybody and everything run amok so that we kill ourselves off in 100 years or so.

[gnorthern]

I have problems with people saying climate change is natural. I think everybody agrees with that.

My main point, and one other point.
1. The immediate problem is how fast and how much the climate is changing. Can we adapt to this rapid change?
2. Coal and oil deposits formed when CO2 levels were much higher and vegetation was much lusher. That removed CO2 from the air. If we put all of that CO2 back into the atmosphere, we will have a climate similar to back then.

[UtahPete]

I think you need to explain your comment a bit. I saw NOTHING in his post that could be characterized as "partisan". Unless maybe you think the other side of the "argument" is that we should just let everybody and everything run amok so that we kill ourselves off in 100 years or so.

I was agreeing with him and saying that we need to work together to solve this problem. I'm concerned that all the partisan bickering in Congress is preventing us making any real progress with this issue.

[Peteoz]

I have problems with people saying climate change is natural. I think everybody agrees with that. .

Well THAT confused me ��. Did you perhaps mean to say “I have NO problems with people saying......”, gnorthern? ;)

Pete

[Easy Rider]

I was agreeing with him and saying that we need to work together to solve this problem. I'm concerned that all the partisan bickering in Congress is preventing us making any real progress with this issue.

OK. When you started out with "Thanks for the ramble.", that kind of took me down the wrong path.

AND......I think I would welcome a bit of old-fashioned bickering.......instead of the current: "Don't talk to me unless you are willing to capitulate 100% with my analysis of the situation."

While that comes from both sides, it comes WAY more from one side........which actually had several of their prominent members say publicly at the beginning of *****'s first term: "We are not going to help with ANYTHING. We are going to do everything we can to see that he falls flat on his face. And then we will laugh when he fails." And they proceeded to do pretty much exactly that. Only they didn't get to gloat nearly as much as they had hoped for.

[UtahPete]

OK. When you started out with "Thanks for the ramble.", that kind of took me down the wrong path.

AND......I think I would welcome a bit of old-fashioned bickering.......instead of the current: "Don't talk to me unless you are willing to capitulate 100% with my analysis of the situation."

While that comes from both sides, it comes WAY more from one side........which actually had several of their prominent members say publicly at the beginning *****'s first term: "We are not going to help with ANYTHING. We are going to do everything we can to see that he falls flat on his face. And then we will laugh when he fails." And they proceeded to do pretty much exactly that. Only they didn't get to gloat nearly as much as they had hoped for.
Mitch McConnell, upon President O's election, publicly stated that the #1 goal of the GOP Senators, of which he was minority leader, was to make sure O*a*a was a one-term President, by denying him any legislative achievements. Obstruction, obfuscation and misleading propaganda was the game plan for 8 years and it worked somewhat.

[Easy Rider]

WOW. It seems that the name of our last President is being censored out of posts.

I'm floored. Let's try Trump.

Edit: Nope. Trump is OK.......but O b a m a is not ????

[gnorthern]

Well THAT confused me ��. Did you perhaps mean to say “I have NO problems with people saying......”, gnorthern? ;)

Pete

What is the difference between no and NO?

btw - Summarizing some of the disagreement I think the question people are debating is "Will the majority of climate change over the next 100 years be natural or due to actions of people?" People seem to saying it is either due to nature or due to man.

[Peteoz]

What is the difference between no and NO?

There would be absolutely no difference if either of the above appeared in your first sentence. But without either of them appearing in your first sentence, your post is a bit hard to follow. ;)

Pete

[davehirst]

To say that man has not had an effect on the climate is ridicules. We've had an impact on almost every facet of our environment from tho water we drink to the air we breath, the earth is constantly in flux. I believe what the human creatures on this planet have done is to change the rate of that change. We aren't going to stop this change in its tracks but steps taken now could slow it down. We can also look at things that are advantageous to all of us like higher efficiency form the cars we drive to electrical generation. this saves us the expense of building more power plants and our automobiles have less of an impact on air quality, LED light bulbs give us more light while using less electricity saving everyone money. Common sense is a valuable commodity and we need it.Common sense tells me I don't want to go back to the model t or or using a 100 watt bulb when a 15 watt will do or to the good old days when power plants, factories and mining operations spewed everything into our air and water with out environmental regulation every time we make thing more efficient we cure many problems. Ain't technology great
And yet with all of these innovations, we aren't making any difference! (According to all the climate change people) I read several articles that say one of the volcano's erupting, releases more CO2 than all of mankind has since mankind existed.

[UtahPete]

And yet with all of these innovations, we aren't making any difference! (According to all the climate change people) I read several articles that say one of the volcano's erupting, releases more CO2 than all of mankind has since mankind existed.
Can't we just plug it up? "Put a sock in it ..." :joke:

[asp125]

Was just listening to a piece on NPR in the car. They were discussing how the mid-western barley crops have been suffering due to warmer / wetter summers. Barley used to be an eastern crop, and has been migrating west as farmers could not get good yields and switched to other crops. Now it's predominantly grown in the mid-west and closer to the mountain states. Long story short, if this weather trend of warmer summers continues, the beer you and I drink might get more expensive as malt barley becomes harder to grow.

[crazycanuck]

the beer you and I drink might get more expensive


you take that back right now :(

[ARtraveler]

Was just listening to a piece on NPR in the car. They were discussing how the mid-western barley crops have been suffering due to warmer / wetter summers. Barley used to be an eastern crop, and has been migrating west as farmers could not get good yields and switched to other crops. Now it's predominantly grown in the mid-west and closer to the mountain states. Long story short, if this weather trend of warmer summers continues, the beer you and I drink might get more expensive as malt barley becomes harder to grow.

Now that's news. We are on to something here. :bowdown::bowdown:

[rustynail51]

I'm sure by now everyone that's read my ramblings know which side of the fence i'm on. Here in Minnesota we have established a 150 foot buffer zone between a body of water be it river or lake to help prevent run off from farm chemicals into our water systems personally I wish it was more but have accepted it because to ask farmer to accept more might be a little to much, we have to have a happy medium. To use alternative power sources can improve air quality reduce dependence on fossil fuels [not replace them completely] these new technologies also have there draw backs also, but they also create jobs in the construction and maintenance fields. Is any thing perfect NO but are some systems better cleaner and reduce emissions from fossil fuels. You may say that we us coal to manufacture these systems but the emissions are reduced when a wind farm or solar array go on line and I believe every little bit helps. The good old USA should be leading the way not letting Europe and China get ahead with us playing catch up. When we reduce funding for education and research we hobble our capacity for innovation and leadership. come on USA.

[rustynail51]

the planet on which we live should not be a political football we all have to live on it.

[asp125]

News flash, the Chinese are already ahead of us in investing in clean technology. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/china-takes-leadership-climate-change-trump-clean-power-plan-paris-agreement/

[rustynail51]

yeah I think I knew that but wasn't sure, thanks for the heads up. So we are already playing catch up.

[asp125]

yeah I think I knew that but wasn't sure, thanks for the heads up. So we are already playing catch up.

A relative was in China this year, and a local national questioned why Americans think climate isn't a priority. He (the chinese) said that they are doing something about it because they can see it and breathe it daily. I guess we gai-jan will wait till we have smog like LA did back in the 60's.

[rustynail51]

Something new to mull over. In the tax cut bill congress wiped out the 9 cent a barrel tax for the oil spill clean up fund, saying it was burdensome on the industry. should we see a price drop at the pump?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

WOW. It seems that the name of our last President is being censored out of posts.

I'm floored. Let's try Trump.

Edit: Nope. Trump is OK.......but O b a m a is not ????
You got it. Several years ago, from what I understand, there were some super heated discussions that prompted Lamont to censor O's name. Or maybe it was his personal dislike for the guy, I don't know. But anyway the name of President O has been censored for several years. I guess it was put into the same category as the four letter vulgar word for a bodily function.

[jaherbst]

Something new to mull over. In the tax cut bill congress wiped out the 9 cent a barrel tax for the oil spill clean up fund, saying it was burdensome on the industry. should we see a price drop at the pump?



Your dreaming again. What goes up must come down--except prices at the pump!

​Jack

[CA Railwhale]

Mitch McConnell, upon President O's election, publicly stated that the #1 goal of the GOP Senators, of which he was minority leader, was to make sure O*a*a was a one-term President, by denying him any legislative achievements. Obstruction, obfuscation and misleading propaganda was the game plan for 8 years and it worked somewhat.

That's normal for either party when they are out of power. The Democrats are doing far more and worse things now that they are out of power. At least Mc Connel was honest about it.

[missouriboy]

Something new to mull over. In the tax cut bill congress wiped out the 9 cent a barrel tax for the oil spill clean up fund, saying it was burdensome on the industry. should we see a price drop at the pump?Gooollllllllleeeeeeeeeeeee! 9 cents a BARREL would be how many HUNDREDTHS of a cent per GALLON? :dontknow:

(And don't forget that the crude oil in gasoline is way less than 100% of its total cost. [Not pump price. Cost.])

[daz]

I have problems with people saying climate change is natural. I think everybody agrees with that.

My main point, and one other point.
1. The immediate problem is how fast and how much the climate is changing. Can we adapt to this rapid change?
2. Coal and oil deposits formed when CO2 levels were much higher and vegetation was much lusher. That removed CO2 from the air. If we put all of that CO2 back into the atmosphere, we will have a climate similar to back then.

"Similar to back then"? The earth's distance from the sun and the tilt of it's axis determine the season and weather. The earth is NOT on tracks in space like a railroad train. The earth's orbit changes a bit each year. Our weather patterns change with it.

[rustynail51]

What I was getting at is next time there is an Exon Valdez or Deep Water Horizon oil spill. Instead of the people who spilled the oil we the tax payer will pay to clean it up. The small tax we don't even notice and won't affect prices at the pump will put more money in the pocket of big oil. This is the point, I haven't heard of any oil company filing for bankruptcy because of the burdensome clean up tax that all oil companies pay.

[kep-up]

Who do you think pays now, tax or no tax? We, the consumer. That's who.

When will the general public finally realize that absolutely NO corporation pays ANY TAX AT ALL? ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer all the time. And with a percentage added for handling costs.

Lord have mercy.

[UtahPete]

Who do you think pays now, tax or no tax? We, the consumer. That's who.

When will the general public finally realize that absolutely NO corporation pays ANY TAX AT ALL? ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer all the time. And with a percentage added for handling costs.

Lord have mercy.
Not to mention that the largest corporations for years have employed squadrons of lawyers and accountants to exploit loopholes to pay little to no tax at all. Why not just close the loopholes and demand repatriation of the trillions of dollars kept offshore untaxed?

[gnorthern]

And yet with all of these innovations, we aren't making any difference! (According to all the climate change people) I read several articles that say one of the volcano's erupting, releases more CO2 than all of mankind has since mankind existed.

NASA says the statement about volcanoes is not true. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page4.php

[johnsimion]

Who do you think pays now, tax or no tax? We, the consumer. That's who.

When will the general public finally realize that absolutely NO corporation pays ANY TAX AT ALL? ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer all the time. And with a percentage added for handling costs.

Lord have mercy.

Corporations do pay tax, the only question is to whom those costs are passed. When you say, "ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer all the time," that's not necessarily true. You are disregarding the laws of supply and demand. Yes, if you have a product in high demand, you can get by with raising your prices and indeed, consumers will bear the cost. However, if too many costs get passed on, demand is reduced as consumers rebel. At some point consumers may simply choose to do without the corporation's product or else find an alternative. At that point, the corporation cannot pass the taxes on to consumers and therefore the taxes will actually be passed on to the corporation's shareholders in the form of reduced profits and dividends. If all costs of doing business could always be passed on to consumers, nobody would ever go out of business.

[ThreeWheels]

I'm going to ask Raquel Welch for a date.
I might have a chance since Hell finally froze over.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyAywESFK_4

[rustynail51]

Here we have a minuscule tax set up and dedicated to a clean up fund that is to be used when the next spill or other oil related mess happens. Now we will be waiting for congress to approve funds for cleanup, like I said we the people had no Idea there was any tax paid for clean up, sure we are paying for it every time we fill our gas tanks but removing the tax takes away the insurance that the money will be there to clean up another catastrophic spill,the point is you won't notice it because every entity that uses a petroleum product form the largest corporation to the kid running his moped around the block paid for it nobody noticed. The only people that will notice will be the oil companies, they will get a few million dollars to raise executive pay or pay dividends, we as the gas buying public won't see any change at the pump or any benefit. Just seems like throwing a giant steak to a fat cat, he likes but really doesn't need it.

[UtahPete]

I find it awful funny that there are people believing in global warming (and complaining we are going to melt) on a website dedicated to a CO2 producing vehicle (Spyder) in which is usually riden for enjoyment :popcorn:A pedal tricycle might be better for the believers (Complainers) so they can be doing their part in stopping global warming :dontknow:
I don't think it's humorous, ironic or hypocritical to express concern that we, as a country, are refusing to acknowledge and deal with a very real issue which affects us all, particularly future generations. It's called civic responsibility.

[UtahPete]

Then please do your part, and stop producing CO2. I myself will continue to ride and be happy :yes:
I'll do my part and engage in civil and productive discussion of issues that concern me. And, ride and be happy without guilt. And avoid pin-heads as much as possible.

[rustynail51]

Anything we do now to improve our environment will make things better in the future lets not be selfish.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

A pedal tricycle might be better for the believers (Complainers) so they can be doing their part in stopping global warming :dontknow:
I read one time where a guy showed there was less total impact on the environment by driving an old fashioned Buick over that of riding a bicycle for a distance of something like 20 or 30 miles. That included the environmental impact of producing the food to provide the energy the bicyclist needed to make the ride.

[Deanna777]

In Vermont we are having a heat wave,, temps in the 40's, we are out of the deep freeze! WOHOOOOOOOOOOO!

Deanna

[missouriboy]

Corporations do pay tax...That's one opinion. Here's another: kep-up is correct.

Corporations do not pay tax. They collect tax, and forward it to the government. Because...

...only PEOPLE pay tax. Living, breathing, sentient human beings pay ALL the taxes. The "corporate" tax is only a clever way of hiding from you and me, the total tax we pay for all the stuff we buy.

The rest of your post was a strained dodge, one that helps to cover the deceit. Corporate tax is only collected on PROFITS, right? No profit, no tax, right? :dontknow:

So a profit, by definition, means all the corporation's costs were covered by the selling price. And the tax they must forward to the government is one of those costs. So who paid the price that covered all the costs? Guess...

And even if those "taxes" are somehow passed to the stockholders, as you say, then just who are those stockholders? Aren't they just people too?

Oh well, not being a tax accountant, I could be wrong... I've been known to be wrong before! :joke:

But I still agree with kep-up.

[missouriboy]

I'm going to ask Raquel Welch for a date.
I might have a chance since Hell finally froze over.LOL! LOL! Are you sure you want that date? How old are you, anyhow?

Raquel Welch is now 77 years old!

LOL!

[UtahPete]

That's one opinion. Here's another: kep-up is correct.

Corporations do not pay tax. They collect tax, and forward it to the government. Because...only PEOPLE pay tax. Living, breathing, sentient human beings pay ALL the taxes. The "corporate" tax is only a clever way of hiding from you and me, the total tax we pay for all the stuff we buy.

Corporate tax is only collected on PROFITS, right? No profit, no tax, right? :dontknow:

So a profit, by definition, means all the corporation's costs were covered by the selling price. And the tax they must forward to the government is one of those costs. So who paid the price that covered all the costs? Guess...

And even if those "taxes" are somehow passed to the stockholders, as you say, then just who are those stockholders? Aren't they just people too?
Geez, to think I went to college for 4 years in accounting and became a CPA for nothing. Who knew finance and taxes were so simple?

[ThreeWheels]

LOL! LOL! Are you sure you want that date? How old are you, anyhow?

Raquel Welch is now 77 years old!

LOL!


156922

[RinconRyder]

Corporations do pay tax, the only question is to whom those costs are passed. When you say, "ALL costs of doing business are passed on to the consumer all the time," that's not necessarily true. You are disregarding the laws of supply and demand. Yes, if you have a product in high demand, you can get by with raising your prices and indeed, consumers will bear the cost. However, if too many costs get passed on, demand is reduced as consumers rebel. At some point consumers may simply choose to do without the corporation's product or else find an alternative. At that point, the corporation cannot pass the taxes on to consumers and therefore the taxes will actually be passed on to the corporation's shareholders in the form of reduced profits and dividends. If all costs of doing business could always be passed on to consumers, nobody would ever go out of business.

Corporations do NOT pay taxes out of their own pocket. Taxes are paid from any earnings the corporations make. The corporation's customers pay those taxes as part of the price they pay for the corporation's products.

[JerryB]

Hi missouri,

Re: Raquel Welch is now 77 years old!

She is only 13 days older than me; I definitely would date her.

Would that make her a cougar?

:yes:

Jerry Baumchen

[johnsimion]

Geez, to think I went to college for 4 years in accounting and became a CPA for nothing. Who knew finance and taxes were so simple?

Of course finance and taxes are simple and easy. That's why you can do the full long form 1040 in about 60 seconds, that's why the tax code is only 20 pages long, that's why the mortgage on your house is only half a page long, that's why the federal government can afford to cut taxes, spend more and still balance the budget, and if medical insurance costs more, it's 110% because of O b a m a care and has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that doctors, hospitals and Big Pharma continue to raise prices. There's nothing complicated about any of this. There are no nuances, no gray areas, no fine print, no consequences. Everything's simple and easy. No need to think. Our leaders will know exactly what to do and will tell us who to blame when things don't work out like they said. Just do as you are told. Get with the program, Pete. MAGA.

[missouriboy]

Hi missouri,

Re: Raquel Welch is now 77 years old!

She is only 13 days older than me; I definitely would date her.

Would that make her a cougar?

:yes:

Jerry BaumchenWell, I guess I'd take that date too, since she's 352 days younger than me! LOL!

(That is, if missourigirl doesn't object. :opps: )

[kep-up]

That's one opinion. Here's another: kep-up is correct.

Corporations do not pay tax. They collect tax, and forward it to the government. Because...

...only PEOPLE pay tax. Living, breathing, sentient human beings pay ALL the taxes. The "corporate" tax is only a clever way of hiding from you and me, the total tax we pay for all the stuff we buy.

The rest of your post was a strained dodge, one that helps to cover the deceit. Corporate tax is only collected on PROFITS, right? No profit, no tax, right? :dontknow:

So a profit, by definition, means all the corporation's costs were covered by the selling price. And the tax they must forward to the government is one of those costs. So who paid the price that covered all the costs? Guess...

And even if those "taxes" are somehow passed to the stockholders, as you say, then just who are those stockholders? Aren't they just people too?

Oh well, not being a tax accountant, I could be wrong... I've been known to be wrong before! :joke:

But I still agree with kep-up.

Thank you.

The small business I own and operate does not pay any taxes. It simply handles the money that is collected from my clients in the form of fees for services. These fees paid by the client include the operating costs, a small bit of money for me and any taxes that will be owed to the various gov't agencies. Therefore, the business does not pay the taxes, the client in a roundabout way pays the taxes. Oh, by the way, I also add a wee bit to cover the time and expense of handling the taxes. I however, am required to pay income taxes on the small amount I pay myself each month.

I am not a CPA, but I thought that's how it is supposed to work?

[Easy Rider]

Then please do your part, and stop producing CO2.

At some point that might be NECESSARY.
I'm hoping that other solutions can be implemented so that is not necessary.......but I'm not optimistic.

On the tax thing.......just saw in the paper today a widely accepted economic analysis of tax decreases:
Every dollar given to the rich is worth about 60 cents to the total economy. Every dollar given to the "poor" is worth about $1.60.

Those who believe the hype that trickle down works to benefit that overall economy are just buying into more BS from the same BS purveyors who convinced you that Trump would make a good President. Apparently you really can't fix stupidity.

[kep-up]

At some point that might be NECESSARY.
I'm hoping that other solutions can be implemented so that is not necessary.......but I'm not optimistic.

On the tax thing.......just saw in the paper today a widely accepted economic analysis of tax decreases:
Every dollar given to the rich is worth about 60 cents to the total economy. Every dollar given to the "poor" is worth about $1.60.

Those who believe the hype that trickle down works to benefit that overall economy are just buying into more BS from the same BS purveyors who convinced you that Trump would make a good President. Apparently you really can't fix stupidity.

You are showing your politics, my friend. This topic needs to get back on subject.

[UtahPete]

On the tax thing.......just saw in the paper today a widely accepted economic analysis of tax decreases: Every dollar given to the rich is worth about 60 cents to the total economy. Every dollar given to the "poor" is worth about $1.60.

Those who believe the hype that trickle down works to benefit that overall economy are just buying into more BS from the same BS purveyors who convinced you that Trump would make a good President. Apparently you really can't fix stupidity.

That's because of another established economics concept called 'velocity of money'. With the rich, velocity is low because that dollar will go into static investments. With the poor, the same dollar will exchange hands many times because it will be spent in the economy on consumption.

Trickle down economics is a scam pure and simple. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who is right.

[rustynail51]

I Know that people who own small businesses get breaks that the hired help don't. The boss buys a new vehicle for the business and gets a deprecation write off the employee buys a car to get to work and has a car payment no write off. all expenses for repair and maintenance for the company vehicle are an expense and are a write off, the working person looses an engine or a transmission, to bad, gas and oil at his expense also, no write off. I'm not saying you should not have these deductions but many business owners also use that vehicle to get back and forth to work and they get to expense that also, I can't expense my transportation. I know that this is probably an over simplification but it is a break that workers don't get.

[rustynail51]

That's because of another established economics concept called 'velocity of money'. With the rich, velocity is low because that dollar will go into static investments. With the poor, the same dollar will exchange hands many times because it will be spent in the economy on consumption.

Trickle down economics is a scam pure and simple. I guess we'll just have to wait and see who is right.

:clap::clap:

[crazycanuck]

Geez, to think I went to college for 4 years in accounting and became a CPA for nothing. Who knew finance and taxes were so simple?


Is this a humble brag post :roflblack:

[UtahPete]

I Know that people who own small businesses get breaks that the hired help don't. The boss buys a new vehicle for the business and gets a deprecation write off the employee buys a car to get to work and has a car payment no write off. all expenses for repair and maintenance for the company vehicle are an expense and are a write off, the working person looses an engine or a transmission, to bad, gas and oil at his expense also, no write off. I'm not saying you should not have these deductions but many business owners also use that vehicle to get back and forth to work and they get to expense that also, I can't expense my transportation. I know that this is probably an over simplification but it is a break that workers don't get.
There have been many, many tax breaks for business owners written into the law over the decades, that's true.

[Bob Denman]

I Know that people who own small businesses get breaks that the hired help don't. The boss buys a new vehicle for the business and gets a deprecation write off the employee buys a car to get to work and has a car payment no write off. all expenses for repair and maintenance for the company vehicle are an expense and are a write off, the working person looses an engine or a transmission, to bad, gas and oil at his expense also, no write off. I'm not saying you should not have these deductions but many business owners also use that vehicle to get back and forth to work and they get to expense that also, I can't expense my transportation. I know that this is probably an over simplification but it is a break that workers don't get.

The business owners have taken the risks: they SHOULD reap the rewards.
If you disagree: take your life savings, and go start a business; then fell free to come back and tell us what you think. nojoke

[UtahPete]

The business owners have taken the risks: they SHOULD reap the rewards.
If you disagree: take your life savings, and go start a business; then fell free to come back and tell us what you think. nojoke
:agree:

[BajaRon]

Corporations do not pay taxes. They do not pay wages to their employees, they do not pay their suppliers or outside contractors, and they do not pay their shippers either (there is no such thing as 'Free Shipping'). Corporations, and business in general, simply collect funds from the customer (where else are they going to get it?), and distribute these funds to the various entities as required. Taxes are simply another expense which has to be accounted for and passed on to the customer.

Yes, it is true that corporations APPEAR to pay all of these. But in the case of taxes, it's just a paper shuffle (and a very expensive one at that).

Think about it. Where you work, who pays your wages? Your employer hands you the money. But where did they get it? Unless your company has a money printing machine in the back room (like the government does), that money came from the customer. All of it.

This fiction that corporations pay taxes is promoted by many at the revenue receiving end because it hides the true tax rate that we are all paying.

Take gasoline, for example. We all know that BIG OIL spends every waking moment trying to figure out new ways to gouge the customer. And yet the average profit on a gallon of gasoline is about $0.04! While the government receives about 10 times this amount for each gallon just in additional taxes (not including sales tax).

Yep! There is only 1 revenue source. And that source pays for every expense including ALL taxes 'paid' by Exxon, Mobil, whatever. When you add it all up, we really do not know what a gallon of gasoline actually costs. And that's the way government likes it.

If you really want a headache, consider this. Every company or entity involved in the production of our fuel 'pays' tax. From the seed producer to the farmer to the equipment manufacturing company to the transport providers. All passing their individual tax burden on to the next 'buyer' in the product chain. This is tax upon tax which all ends up being paid by the end user. That is you and me.

Just like every other expense, business tries to reduce the tax burden to remain competitive while still turning a profit.

If a business needs a 10% profit margin to remain viable, they set the price of their product to whatever it needs to be to end up with 10% free and clear after ALL expenses are paid (including taxes). Who pays this additional amount to cover the tax expense? The customer, of course. If the company charges too much, then they go out of business. But the same thing will happen if they don't or can't charge enough and end up with too little profit, or no profit at all.

[missouriboy]

That's because of another established economics concept called 'velocity of money'. With the rich, velocity is low because that dollar will go into static investments. With the poor, the same dollar will exchange hands many times because it will be spent in the economy on consumption.
<snip>
Yup, I like this statement, and agree with it.

I snipped that last line because it's political opinion, so I'll stay neutral on that, but endorse the first part. Thanks for posting! :D

[Fat Baxter]

In an earlier post on this thread I mentioned that there is significant push-back that "the consensus is settled" due to manipulation of data in many of the studies regarding climate change: FWIW, here's one recent update:

"Report: 485 Scientific Papers Published in 2017 Undermine Supposed 'Consensus' on Climate Change (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/10/report-485-scientific-papers-published-in-2017-undermine-supposed-consensus-on-climate-change/)"

A broad survey of climate change literature for 2017 reveals that the alleged “consensus” behind the dangers of anthropogenic global warming is not nearly as settled among climate scientists as people imagine.

Author Kenneth Richard found that during the course of the year 2017, at least 485 scientific papers were published that in some way questioned the supposed consensus regarding the perils of human CO2 emissions or the efficacy of climate models to predict the future.


According to Richard’s analysis, the 485 new papers underscore the “significant limitations and uncertainties inherent in our understanding of climate and climate changes,” which in turn suggests that climate science is not nearly as settled as media reports and some policymakers would have people believe.

[Bob Denman]

156930

[Easy Rider]

STEALING from other peoples fortune, and good luck is never a good thing!

Hard work, determination, and the will to exceed will get you farther every time, not complaining about what other people have!

And now YOUR political leanings are showing.

Taking more taxes from those who benefit most from the "system" and make gobs of money is NOT stealing.

And more often than you seem to think, hard work, determination and the will to "exceed" (sic) gets you pretty much NOTHING.

[Bob Denman]

And now YOUR political leanings are showing.

Taking more taxes from those who benefit most from the "system" and make gobs of money is NOT stealing.

And more often than you seem to think, hard work, determination and the will to "exceed" (sic) gets you pretty much NOTHING.

Would you like some cheese with that "Whine"? :dontknow:

As Dusty put it:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcw_WSv14o8

[rustynail51]

If you think it's so darn wonderful for business owners, go start your own business, and find out what its REALLY like! Last I checked this is still a free country YOU control your own destiny (no one handcuffed you to your profession). If you hate working for that evil business owner do something about it! Stop complaining that its not fare for you the worker maybe you should be grateful that someone took the initiative to start a business and wanted to employ you, the disgruntled worker who wants more all the time, but really doesn't want to work hard for it.

STEALING from other peoples fortune, and good luck is never a good thing!

Hard work, determination, and the will to exceed will get you farther every time, not complaining about what other people have!

You read far more into my statement than necessary. I admire small business owners they are willing to sacrifice a lot to to achieve their rewards I have many friends who own businesses I know how hard they work. I just stated that there are tax advantages for business owners that people who work for a salary don't have. Small businesses are the back bone of our economy as they grow they hire employees and buy equipment to expand putting more people to work to supply their needs and they should have the ability to deduct expenses and depreciate equipment. Please don't criticize those who have chosen a different avenues to make a living,they aren't lazy and don't lack ambition, with out people to do the work a lot of small operations would not be able to flourish and become successful. i worked hard all my life from my early days on the farm and and in factories and almost thirty years in facilities maintenance. everyone from the business owner to the employee contributes to the success of this country and all I want is everybody to pay their fair share and be responsible citizens.

[crazycanuck]

Uncle Bob owns his own business :)

[Easy Rider]

Would you like some cheese with that "Whine"? :dontknow:


Just exactly what motivates you to make a nasty comment like that ??

I do not fall in that category myself but do know many that DO.
And for most of them it is NOT from lack of trying.

[Bob Denman]

156938

[kep-up]

C'mon Bob, stop being so mean! Running one's own business is all fun and games and big bucks coming in all the time while all the "little people" do all the work, donchano. Just ask them.

[Bob Denman]

:D Yeah... I can't shovel the money into the furnace fast enough! :roflblack:
It's starting to pile up in the back yard, and the birds have all lined their bests with hundred dollar bills! :joke:

[Lew L]

this thread is turning to poo rapidly.

[Bob Denman]

I think that it's too late for "is turning"...

"Turned"; might be more accurate. :banghead:

[crazycanuck]

someone flush the toilet :pray:

[Roadster Renovations]

I stopped following several pages back.....:yikes::yikes::yikes:

[Bob Denman]

But Doc...
Isn't all of this your fault? :dontknow:



:D :joke::joke::joke: :thumbup:

[Roadster Renovations]

But Doc...
Isn't all of this your fault? :dontknow:



:D :joke::joke::joke: :thumbup:

:opps:It may very well be me that ! started this mess, but if you will look back on my posts in this thread, I have yet to comment either way about Global Warming! If fact, this topic has evidently heated up our area enough that our high today will be around 65.........:yes:

However, in the vein of "Thinking Globally and acting Locally" I plan on ryding my Spyder as much as possible to reduce the emissions from my gas guzzling Ford!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

:D I think that I'll join you in that effort! :clap:

[ARtraveler]

Some very deep thinkers here. On all sides. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Easy Rider]

Some very deep stinkers here. On all sides. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

There. I fixed that typo for you. :thumbup:

[Easy Rider]

156938

I don't think there is anything funny about this discussion.

And I would like you to TELL ME exactly what I said that you think qualifies as "whining" ??
Instead of just throwing around insults.

[rustynail51]

I agree the train came of the rails but I did enjoy it. Hey what about that global warming.

[ARtraveler]

There. I fixed that typo for you. :thumbup:

I prefer my original "thinkers" on this one. :bowdown:

[Bob Denman]

I don't think there is anything funny about this discussion.

And I would like you to TELL ME exactly what I said that you think qualifies as "whining" ??
Instead of just throwing around insults.
I found your statement about the boss getting a new car to be both offensive, and whiny. nojoke

Do you feel better now?

[mrb]

I don't usually comment but I think the term "global warming" is misleading and should be referred to as "climate change". Here in Queensland Australia 2017 was the hottest year on record. Recently in the west we have seen 45 deg C and more - that's 113 deg F to you guys. We are all experiencing extremes of weather and for whatever reason I believe we are seeing a change of climate. My opinion only.

[missouriboy]

I don't usually comment but I think the term "global warming" is misleading and should be referred to as "climate change". And you thus expose a key betrayal of the whole phony issue! The hustlers originally pushed Global Warming to scare us into accepting their hustle. But when Global Warming quickly disproved itself, the hustlers instantly retired that dying horse and quietly saddled a new one named Climate Change in order to keep the hustle going! :coffee:

[Easy Rider]

I found your statement about the boss getting a new car to be both offensive, and whiny. nojoke

Do you feel better now?

***I*** said nothing about "the boss getting a new car".
Quote please.

[JAS POWER]

Lets all get back to the one thing for sure we can ALL agree on!!!

THE GREATEST VEHICLE OF ALL TIME THE CAN-AM SPYDER :yes:

[RinconRyder]

Lets all get back to the one thing for sure we can ALL agree on!!!

THE GREATEST VEHICLE OF ALL TIME THE CAN-AM SPYDER :yes:

UH, NO! Good, not great.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Lets all get back to the one thing for sure we can ALL agree on!!!

THE GREATEST VEHICLE OF ALL TIME THE CAN-AM SPYDER :yes:

NO IT'S NOT! It's the SECOND greatest vehicle of all time. I just haven't seen, heard about, or otherwise learned which one is the first greatest vehicle, if it even exists!!! :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

UH, NO! Good, not great.
So you're saying it's the goodest vehicle of all time, right? :roflblack:

[ARtraveler]

Your dreaming again. What goes up must come down--except prices at the pump!

​Jack

Another :agree: The oil companies reducing prices because they are paying less taxes...:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblac k::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

Reduce prices when they can make another $9.00 per barrel profit without doing a thing????????????

[missouriboy]

$9.00?? I thought that was 9 cents. (Post #110)

[rustynail51]

What I've been able to find is that it was only 9 cents a barrel it amounts to around 500 million a year. It created a fund for rapid response to clean up oil spill like the Exon Valdez or the deep water horizon. Now it is just extra profit for the struggling oil industry.

[ARtraveler]

Another :agree: The oil companies reducing prices because they are paying less taxes...:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblac k::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

Reduce prices when they can make another $.09 per barrel profit without doing a thing????????????

Correction: I stand corrected. 9 CENTS per barrel tax savings.

OOoooooooooooooooooooppppppppppppppppppssssssssss.

[BajaRon]

There's snow in them thar hills! (I mean dunes)

https://godfatherpolitics.com/how-cold-is-it-theres-snow-in-the-sahara/