Rant about prescription costs

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

At the risk of creating a storm I can't help but share what I just have seen on my medical insurance account page. My wife and I have a number of prescriptions which are covered by my Federal Blue Cross insurance plan. Here is what the dollar aspect of our prescriptions is like for 2017.

The total submitted charges to BCBS by our local corner pharmacy and our mail order pharmacy is $49,453. The amount paid by BCBS is $4,605. My copay is $533. That means that of the total submitted charges the pharmacies were paid, and accepted as payment in full, the grand sum of $5,138. That is 10.4% of the billed amount. One extreme example, for one prescription, is $4200 billed, $17 paid by BCBS, and $3 paid by me. What does this mean? Either the drug companies are grossly overcharging for drugs and the distribution network still earns a profit when the drugs leave the manufacturer at about 5% of the billed amount, or the pharmacies all lose money on my prescription orders which then are made up for by the poor schmucks who have no insurance or only weak insurance providers. If the pharmacies are not losing money on my prescriptions, and I'm getting a bargain price, and the poor schmucks with no or poor insurance are paying more, is that fair to them? I don't think so.

In contrast my medical costs are $8,936 submitted, $1094 paid by BCBS, and $491 paid by me. That's a 17.7% reimbursement rate.

Mind you, I like getting my prescriptions and medical service at a low cost, and am grateful that I do. My medical insurance for me and my wife costs around $12,000 to $14,000 between me and Uncle Sam. But I sure feel sorry for all those who have to pay a lot more than I do. The medical pricing scheme in this country is broken, badly.

Let's see if we can discuss this without becoming all roiled! It's a serious problem for our country. We need a rational solution.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

At the risk of creating a storm I can't help but share what I just have seen on my medical insurance account page. My wife and I have a number of prescriptions which are covered by my Federal Blue Cross insurance plan. Here is what the dollar aspect of our prescriptions is like for 2017.

The total submitted charges to BCBS by our local corner pharmacy and our mail order pharmacy is $49,453. The amount paid by BCBS is $4,605. My copay is $533. That means that of the total submitted charges the pharmacies were paid, and accepted as payment in full, the grand sum of $5,138. That is 10.4% of the billed amount. One extreme example, for one prescription, is $4200 billed, $17 paid by BCBS, and $3 paid by me. What does this mean? Either the drug companies are grossly overcharging for drugs and the distribution network still earns a profit when the drugs leave the manufacturer at about 5% of the billed amount, or the pharmacies all lose money on my prescription orders which then are made up for by the poor schmucks who have no insurance or only weak insurance providers. If the pharmacies are not losing money on my prescriptions, and I'm getting a bargain price, and the poor schmucks with no or poor insurance are paying more, is that fair to them? I don't think so.

In contrast my medical costs are $8,936 submitted, $1094 paid by BCBS, and $491 paid by me. That's a 17.7% reimbursement rate.

Mind you, I like getting my prescriptions and medical service at a low cost, and am grateful that I do. My medical insurance for me and my wife costs around $12,000 to $14,000 between me and Uncle Sam. But I sure feel sorry for all those who have to pay a lot more than I do. The medical pricing scheme in this country is broken, badly.

Let's see if we can discuss this without becoming all roiled! It's a serious problem for our country. We need a rational solution., If you have medicare like I do, I found the same thing - - - however I also found out that the MEDICARE was actually paying 95% of all my medical bills .....not BCBS ...... I think I'm going to OPT - OUT , now that I'm not forced into having Private insurance .....jmho , ... Mike :thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

, If you have medicare like I do, I found the same thing - - - however I also found out that the MEDICARE was actually paying 95% of all my medical bills .....not BCBS ...... I think I'm going to OPT - OUT , now that I'm not forced into having Private insurance .....jmho , ... Mike :thumbup:
I have original Medicare plus the BCBS. I've often thought of dropping the BCBS but if I do I can never pick it back up again. A few years ago I looked at various options of Medicare and gap insurance and Medicare Advantage. In the end the total out of pocket cost varied only about $500 to a $1000/yr. My brother has Medicare Part B also plus private BCBS plan. He pays about the same total as I do. If you have a real major medical problem the deductible and copay for Medicare could be way more than the gap insurance premium. So it's all a gamble. Pay for the risk you are most comfortable with.

[ARtraveler]

Same deal with medical costs. I had almost $300,000 of surgery last year. Each one was over $75,000. Hospital & Medicare worked out the splits. I was personally responsible for about $10,000.

They used to "itemize" bills. Now it seems a fixed rate for procedure X. Anesthesia and Surgeons sent separate bills also.

Same for prescriptions.

Reason for the high prices: It costs pennies to produce pill X. Since the companies can no longer capitalize research & development--they have to charge it as it goes. That leaves a big negative hole before a drug hits the market place. They charge what the market will bear based on the type of drugs. That is why we have $1,000 pills. They are trying to make back their "loss" as quickly as possible.

My "small" pill debacle. After my stents procedure the Dr. prescribed pill X. We went to the pharmacy to pick up the 90 day supply. Pharmacist said that will be $900 please. We had to pass. Not covered by MC. Dr. found me a less expensive version. There is a point...and it was reached.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

it's not that much different then a lawyer who charges $340/hr when his legal secretary does most of the work
at $22.50/hr.

[Bob Denman]

But the medications and Doctor's visits are supposed to make you feel better... :thumbup:


...While Lawyers just make you feel sick to your stomach. :shocked: :barf:

[PrairieSpyder]

At the risk of creating a storm I can't help but share what I just have seen on my medical insurance account page. My wife and I have a number of prescriptions which are covered by my Federal Blue Cross insurance plan. Here is what the dollar aspect of our prescriptions is like for 2017.

The total submitted charges to BCBS by our local corner pharmacy and our mail order pharmacy is $49,453. The amount paid by BCBS is $4,605. My copay is $533. That means that of the total submitted charges the pharmacies were paid, and accepted as payment in full, the grand sum of $5,138. That is 10.4% of the billed amount. One extreme example, for one prescription, is $4200 billed, $17 paid by BCBS, and $3 paid by me. What does this mean? Either the drug companies are grossly overcharging for drugs and the distribution network still earns a profit when the drugs leave the manufacturer at about 5% of the billed amount, or the pharmacies all lose money on my prescription orders which then are made up for by the poor schmucks who have no insurance or only weak insurance providers. If the pharmacies are not losing money on my prescriptions, and I'm getting a bargain price, and the poor schmucks with no or poor insurance are paying more, is that fair to them? I don't think so.

In contrast my medical costs are $8,936 submitted, $1094 paid by BCBS, and $491 paid by me. That's a 17.7% reimbursement rate.

Mind you, I like getting my prescriptions and medical service at a low cost, and am grateful that I do. My medical insurance for me and my wife costs around $12,000 to $14,000 between me and Uncle Sam. But I sure feel sorry for all those who have to pay a lot more than I do. The medical pricing scheme in this country is broken, badly.

Let's see if we can discuss this without becoming all roiled! It's a serious problem for our country. We need a rational solution.

You also need to add in the costs you pay for the supplementary insurance and the cost to the government for Medicare, etc. over and above whatever you paid over your working years for Medicare.

[Rob Rodriguez]

Completely agree we need a rational solution. I don't think we will have one any time soon. Politicians are too busy fighting among each other and "big business" completely controls how "healthcare" works in this country. Neither gives a damn about the people that actually use healthcare and neither lives in the "real world"

Since it seems a lot of people in the USA are against a government controlled healthcare system like most other countries have I think we need to go the route of people obtaining their own insurance rather than employers providing insurance.

In my opinion employer sponsored healthcare is a major driving force in why/how the costs are out of control.

Why?

Because most people have no idea what they are paying for health care (comes out of their check automatically) or what the true overall cost is.
Employers have a large enough pool of money (or are able to achieve the $ required) to meet these over inflated costs year after year.


If everyone had to purchase their own health insurance on their own two thing would happen.

People would be in shock at what health insurance really costs
Very few would purchase health insurance because no one would be able to afford it


Insurance companies, hospitals, etc, etc would be forced to have more reasonable costs because they wouldn't be able to sell their product at current pricing.
The old,"how much does it cost?, how much do you have?" wouldn't/couldn't be the pricing model as it currently is.

Would this solve the entire issue. Absolutely not, but its a step in the right direction.

[UtahPete]

But the medications and Doctor's visits are supposed to make you feel better... :thumbup: ...While Lawyers just make you feel sick to your stomach. :shocked: :barf:
They say we have the best justice system that money can buy. nojoke

[UtahPete]

On the other hand, if your IRA / KEOUGH is invested in pharmaceuticals, you're doing quite well...nojoke

The way our healthcare payment system has evolved, there are now way too many companies and individuals profiting from the status quo for it to ever change in any meaningful way.

[Bob Denman]

They say we have the best justice system that money can buy. nojoke

:banghead: Ain't that the truth! :gaah::cus:

[R FUN]

I think we still have one of the best systems in the world no matter what some of your polatitions like to say, For an example, I went to get a stress test and the doctor said something wasnt right. He said he needed to operate and by 6;00 AM the next morning was on the operating table and they put 2 stents
in one of the main arteries.The cost to me ZERO dollars. they dont even send a bill. Cost of medication maximum $20.00 per prescription, government picks up ballance. The wife had breast cancer, they operated immediately and then went on keemo and all the treatments and is now cured and never seen a bill, also for cancer there is no cost for any medication. Yes, we pay 6% tax on most purchases of new vehicles clothing etc. but that is a small price to pay for the average person unless you want to buy expensive toys every year. This is in Saskatchewan Canada. We do not need to pay any insurance premiums etc,
Hope you all have good health in the new year

[UtahPete]

I think we still have one of the best systems in the world no matter what some of your polatitions like to say, This is in Saskatchewan Canada. We do not need to pay any insurance premiums etc,
I agree. But then again, you're a more egalitarian system than ours. Here, that's demonized as 'socialism'.

[Bob Denman]

If anybody thinks that the Canadian Healthcare system is better than ours: I'm pretty sure that they'd be happy for us to join them up there! :D

[UtahPete]

If anybody thinks that the Canadian Healthcare system is better than ours: I'm pretty sure that they'd be happy for us to join them up there! :D
It's too damn cold; otherwise I'd take advantage of my dual citizenship! Anyway, I don't think any of the comments so far have implied we have an inferior healthcare system. Our way of paying for healthcare (including meds) is at question here. It's simply unsustainable; something is going to break and it won't be the 1% who will suffer the consequences.

[johnsimion]

it's not that much different then a lawyer who charges $340/hr when his legal secretary does most of the work
at $22.50/hr.

Having been in private practice ... if your lawyer is charging $340 an hour for work actually done by his/her legal secretary, that is absolutely fraud and you have a legitimate complaint to the local Bar association. You are entitled to an itemized bill showing what the lawyer did to earn the $340 an hour. Not only that, but they would have to produce time slips showing what they did, when they did it, and how long it took them. I'd bet that if you asked for such an accounting, the first response you'd get is an offer to simply cut the bill in half. Thing is, most people are too shy to ask for such an accounting ... and there are some lawyers who know this and depend on it. When I was licensed back in 1982, we had an honorable profession. Now it's 90% ambulance chasers. This kind of thing drove me crazy in short order which is why I spent most of my career in the Army and Air Force, both in uniform as a JAG and as a civilian attorney.

[RinconRyder]

The same type of "overcharging" is being done with surgeries as well as Rx's.

I had two cataract surgeries this year (one per eye) and got a detailed billing for each one:

Surgery as billed by doctor = $2,400. Accepted by doctor (insurance payment): $600 Yep, 25% And that $600 includes three follow up visits post-op.

[johnsimion]

The total submitted charges to BCBS by our local corner pharmacy and our mail order pharmacy is $49,453. The amount paid by BCBS is $4,605. My copay is $533. That means that of the total submitted charges the pharmacies were paid, and accepted as payment in full, the grand sum of $5,138. That is 10.4% of the billed amount.

Here's one easy solution that neither party will ever talk about. Why are drugs expensive? The drug companies CONSTANTLY advertise prescription drugs on TV ... "Ask your doctor about ..." Why should patients ask their doctor about "X" drugs? It's legitimate to advertise to the doctors who actually prescribe the drugs, but advertising to the patients to beg their doctors to prescribe the drugs makes the patient into the doctor and artificially increases demand. Higher demand = higher prices. Then there's the fact that we don't allow the same drugs that are made overseas to be sold here, limiting supply. So if you have increased demand and limited supply, what do you get? High prices.

The laws of economics also don't seem to apply to medical insurance and the medical profession. People don't seem to understand that higher medical costs lead to higher insurance costs, and that's going to be true under *****care or any other system. Until people make that connection, medical insurance costs are going to rise. So what to do about it? Here in Las Vegas we sometimes have to wait 3 months to see a general practitioner. Why? Not enough doctors. Too much demand, not enough supply, so they can and do charge $300 for a 5 minute office visit. My wife had a panic attack and I took her to the ER and they ran some tests and decided she was okay. Billed the insurance company $14,000. When medical costs are that much, that's why health insurance is so darned expensive. So WTH don't we graduate more doctors and allow more foreign doctors to immigrate here? Because that means less money for doctors and less money for insurance companies.

Then we have the ambulance-chasing lawyers who advertise constantly and unnecessary lawsuits do, I'm sure, also contribute to high medical insurance costs. Why do we allow this?

One thing is for sure, 30 years ago we did not have prescription drugs being advertised on TV, we did not have ambulance-chasing lawyers advertising on TV, and you didn't have to wait 3 months to see a doctor. And health insurance cost a fraction of what it does now. Am I wrong to see a connection?

[nhoj]

If anybody thinks that the Canadian Healthcare system is better than ours: I'm pretty sure that they'd be happy for us to join them up there! :D

Come on up any time Bob. You are always welcome. I'll even subscribe to Fox News for you :)

[Bob Denman]

:D Thanks! :thumbup:

[wyliec]

One thing is for sure, 30 years ago we did not have prescription drugs being advertised on TV, we did not have ambulance-chasing lawyers advertising on TV, and you didn't have to wait 3 months to see a doctor. And health insurance cost a fraction of what it does now. Am I wrong to see a connection?

That is pretty sad about having to wait 3 months to see a dr. Are you saying that's a general rule in the U.S.? I can only speak to the area in which I live, and I called the dr's office at 8:30 A.M. yesterday and he saw me at 4 P.M. the same day. I had to drop my previous dr. when he became part of a concierge practice which cost the patient an extra $1600 a year, and not billable to your insurance. For that price, you were guaranteed same day service. We do have a lot of the ambulance-chasing lawyers on t.v., but I haven't seen it for medical malpractice; we do have a lot for personal injury. I know an attorney that specializes in medical malpractice, but he doesn't advertise. I guess I should be thankful for the area in which I live. Also, 30% of the practicing drs. at Upstate Medical Center where I work are from other countries.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I think we still have one of the best systems in the world no matter what some of your polatitions like to say, For an example, I went to get a stress test and the doctor said something wasnt right. He said he needed to operate and by 6;00 AM the next morning was on the operating table and they put 2 stents
in one of the main arteries.The cost to me ZERO dollars. they dont even send a bill. Cost of medication maximum $20.00 per prescription, government picks up ballance. The wife had breast cancer, they operated immediately and then went on keemo and all the treatments and is now cured and never seen a bill, also for cancer there is no cost for any medication. Yes, we pay 6% tax on most purchases of new vehicles clothing etc. but that is a small price to pay for the average person unless you want to buy expensive toys every year. This is in Saskatchewan Canada. We do not need to pay any insurance premiums etc,
Hope you all have good health in the new year
" FREE ", :roflblack: only to those Canadians who " Don't Pay Any Taxes ".... Canadians are among the Highest taxed people on the planet. Annnnnnnnnd that's how the health care is FREE ..... Do the math ......... Mike :thumbup:

[Rob Rodriguez]

I'd glady pay another $5K-$15K in taxes per yr if it meant no out of pocket cost healthcare.

In fact lots of the people in the USA that don't pay or pay very little taxes (low income) get some of the best healthcare in the world at little to no cost.

Its the middle class that works their butt off that gets screwed as usual.

[R FUN]

Blueknight911, I do not know were this FREE health care is you talk of. We all pay but the money is managed better in my opinion. If your system in so much better, why is the US the only country on the planet as you put it that does not have socialized health care, but dont worry, Trump will fix it.
I have worked in Canada all my life and do not know were this high taxes are you talk about.
Roger

[Bob Denman]

:D Then you must have better Politicians than we do... :banghead:

:congrats:

[RinconRyder]

Come on up any time Bob. You are always welcome. I'll even subscribe to Fox News for you :)

Be careful what you offer. I was once in hospital for 8 days and the only news channel they had was Faux. I was almost crazy by the time I got out. :banghead:

[UtahPete]

" FREE ", :roflblack: only to those Canadians who " Don't Pay Any Taxes ".... Canadians are among the Highest taxed people on the planet. Annnnnnnnnd that's how the health care is FREE ..... Do the math ......... Mike :thumbup:
Mike, I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's just not so. That's the propaganda that our capitalistic health care system has been feeding us for decades.

[UtahPete]

Completely agree we need a rational solution. I don't think we will have one any time soon. Politicians are too busy fighting among each other and "big business" completely controls how "healthcare" works in this country. Neither gives a damn about the people that actually use healthcare and neither lives in the "real world"

Since it seems a lot of people in the USA are against a government controlled healthcare system like most other countries have I think we need to go the route of people obtaining their own insurance rather than employers providing insurance.

In my opinion employer sponsored healthcare is a major driving force in why/how the costs are out of control.

Why?

Because most people have no idea what they are paying for health care (comes out of their check automatically) or what the true overall cost is.
Employers have a large enough pool of money (or are able to achieve the $ required) to meet these over inflated costs year after year.


If everyone had to purchase their own health insurance on their own two thing would happen.

People would be in shock at what health insurance really costs
Very few would purchase health insurance because no one would be able to afford it


Insurance companies, hospitals, etc, etc would be forced to have more reasonable costs because they wouldn't be able to sell their product at current pricing.
The old,"how much does it cost?, how much do you have?" wouldn't/couldn't be the pricing model as it currently is.

Would this solve the entire issue. Absolutely not, but its a step in the right direction.
You nailed it.

[UtahPete]

Having been in private practice ... if your lawyer is charging $340 an hour for work actually done by his/her legal secretary, that is absolutely fraud and you have a legitimate complaint to the local Bar association. You are entitled to an itemized bill showing what the lawyer did to earn the $340 an hour. Not only that, but they would have to produce time slips showing what they did, when they did it, and how long it took them. I'd bet that if you asked for such an accounting, the first response you'd get is an offer to simply cut the bill in half. Thing is, most people are too shy to ask for such an accounting ... and there are some lawyers who know this and depend on it. When I was licensed back in 1982, we had an honorable profession. Now it's 90% ambulance chasers. This kind of thing drove me crazy in short order which is why I spent most of my career in the Army and Air Force, both in uniform as a JAG and as a civilian attorney.
You have my utmost respect and admiration. Thank you for your service in both the military and civilian life. I'm sure with an attitude like yours, you didn't retire filthy rich, as most doctors and lawyers expect to do.

[UtahPete]

:D Then you must have better Politicians than we do... :banghead: :congrats:

Their system is less susceptible to fraud and self-dealing, than ours.

[ARtraveler]

When I worked in a CPA office as a "staff accountant" back in the 90's, we had to keep track of our time spent on various clients down to 1/10th of an hour. That was so they could bill the client for time spent. I am guessing the time was credited to the "partners" and not the grunts doing the work behind the scenes. :thumbup:

[UtahPete]

When I worked in a CPA office as a "staff accountant" back in the 90's, we had to keep track of our time spent on various clients down to 1/10th of an hour. That was so they could bill the client for time spent. I am guessing the time was credited to the "partners" and not the grunts doing the work behind the scenes. :thumbup:
I worked for Touche, Ross & Co back in the 90s as a senior auditor. I did see some of the billing to clients and it was broken down by associate, manager and partner time.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Blueknight911, I do not know were this FREE health care is you talk of. We all pay but the money is managed better in my opinion. If your system in so much better, why is the US the only country on the planet as you put it that does not have socialized health care, but dont worry, Trump will fix it.
I have worked in Canada all my life and do not know were this high taxes are you talk about.
Roger From YOUR post on this ... " cost to me ZERO dollars " .... " they don't even send a Bill " ..... " never seen a Bill "..... " no cost for any medication " ...." we do not need to pay any insurance payments " ......... ANNNNNNNNNND Trump will never award any Terrorists ..... $ 7,000,000 for their pain and suffering :yikes::yikes::yikes: ... I am not anti-Canadian , but I am anti-BS ...............annnnnnnnnd a Happy New Year .........Mike :thumbup:

[UtahPete]

From your post on this ... " cost tome ZERO dollars " .... " they don't even send a Bill " ..... " never seen a Bill "..... " no cost for any medication " ...." we do not need to pay any insurance payments " ......... ANNNNNNNNNND Trump will never award an Terrorists ..... $ 7,000,000 for their pain and suffering :yikes::yikes::yikes: ... I am not anti-Canadian , but I am anti-BS ...............annnnnnnnnd a Happy New Year .........Mike :thumbup:
Mike, Mike, Mike. Love you bro' nojoke But what does this have to do with the problem of paying for health care in the US?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike, Mike, Mike. Love you bro' nojoke But what does this have to do with the problem of paying for health care in the US?
Pete, Pete, Pete. I love you too BRO nojoke...... It doesn't have anything to do with paying for Health care in the U.S. and my last post to .... " R Fun " didn't say it did. There are many, many ways to determine what the word " FREE " means ...and He used a bunch of them............. annnnnnnnnnnnd I don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings towards folks who appear to be " Trump Haters " :banghead::banghead:....Mike :thumbup:

[UtahPete]

Pete, Pete, Pete. I love you too BRO nojoke...... It doesn't have anything to do with paying for Health care in the U.S. and my last post to .... " R Fun " didn't say it did. There are many, many ways to determine what the word " FREE " means ...and He used a bunch of them............. annnnnnnnnnnnd I don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings towards folks who appear to be " Trump Haters " :banghead::banghead:....Mike :thumbup:
Okay, bud. I respect and appreciate you too much to pursue this further. nojoke

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

You also need to add in the costs you pay for the supplementary insurance and the cost to the government for Medicare, etc. over and above whatever you paid over your working years for Medicare.
About the only cost not included in the insurance premiums and my out of pocket cost of $12,000+ per year above is the Government's current contribution to the Medicare program that helps pay for my medical care. Retirees are covered by Part A at no out of pocket cost. I haven't seen nor looked for info on how much the Part B premium retirees pay does or does not cover actual medical costs of the retiree. Part B is an insurance pool just like BCBS, Aetna, and all the others. The presumption of the total BCBS premium, me + Uncle, is that it pays for all of my medical expenses as part of the total insurance pool. That means, of course, that many people in the pool pay in a lot more than they cost in benefits.

If the billed charges for medical care and prescriptions are in fact bloated fictitious numbers and the real cost is closer to what I and my insurance plans pay the providers, then how badly are those without insurance, or with only a weak insurance plan, being gouged? Everybody, insured or not, should be charged about the same rate for a given procedure or prescription. I can see an insurance company getting somewhat of a break due to volume and buying power, but when the provider accepts 5% to 20% of the billed amount as payment in full, the pricing scheme is seriously broken.

Other evidence of the broken pricing scheme is that in spite of providers screaming about inadequate payments non-profit hospitals and for profit medical groups continue to build marble palaces. Some of the most gorgeous buildings in town are hospitals.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Then there's the fact that we don't allow the same drugs that are made overseas to be sold here, limiting supply. So if you have increased demand and limited supply, what do you get? High prices.
You ever looked closely at the label on your prescription bottles, the ones that are handed to you just as they come from the pharmaceutical companies? You might be surprised at just how many of them do come from overseas, especially India.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If anybody thinks that the Canadian Healthcare system is better than ours: I'm pretty sure that they'd be happy for us to join them up there! :D
Keep in mind the two parts of medical care, the technology and the delivery. The US is undoubtedly the leader, but not necessarily by much, when it comes to technology and expertise in treatment of illness and injury. However, we are sadly far from the top of the list when it comes to delivery. Most every developed country in the world does a better job of providing care to its people than we do. So, which is worthy of more praise, great medical technology that 20% + of the population can't access, or mediocre care that everyone has access to? Guess which one has the lower infant mortality rate. In this list, https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html, out of 225 countries 54 have a lower infant mortality than the US.

[wyliec]

So, which is worthy of more praise, great medical technology that 20% + of the population can't access, or mediocre care that everyone has access to? Guess which one has the lower infant mortality rate. In this list, https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html, out of 225 countries 54 have a lower infant mortality than the US.

Firstly, before I'm accused of hating kids, all children should have access to healthcare. Would you explain what I have bolded? Are you making an all encompassing statement that there are children in all states that don't have access to healthcare? Lately I've seen statements on various threads where comments seem to be all encompassing, all fit under the same umbrella type statements. In any case, in NYS children have access to healthcare at no cost or little cost based on family earnings. I'll admit that I don't know how this plays into other states, and was wondering if that's what you meant by access?

[Bob Denman]

I can't really complain too much about prescription costs. nojoke
My insulin pump and blood glucose monitoring system supplies run me about $116 per quarter; but they'd cost over 1400 bucks if I was buying them.
And the Missus takes over $5000 worth of immunosuppressants each Month, and they cost us about $170.

[wyliec]

I can't really complain too much about prescription costs. nojoke
My insulin pump and blood glucose monitoring system supplies run me about $116 per quarter; but they'd cost over 1400 bucks if I was buying them.
And the Missus takes over $5000 worth of immunosuppressants each Month, and they cost us about $170.

Bob,

I don't mean to take this off track, but to this day I still don't know quite how my daughter could pay for any of he liver transplant in Jan. 2016, and follow up drugs for the rest of her life; she had some minimal paying job at the time. I think NYS had something to do with that, the paying for hospitalization and drugs. My other daughter that gave up part of her liver is well insured.

[Bob Denman]

:opps: We DO pay $25,000 per year for our health insurance... :shocked:

[billybovine]

" FREE ", :roflblack: only to those Canadians who " Don't Pay Any Taxes ".... Canadians are among the Highest taxed people on the planet. Annnnnnnnnd that's how the health care is FREE ..... Do the math ......... Mike :thumbup:

You're right Mike, Canadian healthcare is not free. But since you asked for the math. Here it is.

Note all currency values are in US dollars. Data from the OECD for 2016.

US Data
Total spent on healthcare per person per year is $9,892
Percentage of gross domestic product is 17.5%
Amount spent by government at all levels is $4,860 per person. The rest is out of pocket, health insurance premiums or copay, drugs, etc.

Canadian Data
Total spent on healthcare per person per year is $4,753
Percentage of gross domestic product is 11.5%
Amounts spent by government at all levels is $3,341 per person. The rest is out of pocket.

[UtahPete]

:opps: We DO pay $25,000 per year for our health insurance... :shocked:
Don't you think that might pose a problem for workers in minimum-wage jobs to be able to afford that? THAT, I think, is the question this thread is all about.

[R FUN]

Thank you UTAHPETE for your understanding of our system.I will not answer Mike back as he will never understand, and I did not lie about our costs or system nor did I run down Mr Trump, all I said was he is working on the health care system and is going to fix it.
Have a good day
Roger

[UtahPete]

You're right Mike, Canadian healthcare is not free. But since you asked for the math. Here it is.

Note all currency values are in US dollars. Data from the OECD for 2016.

US Data
Total spent on healthcare per person per year is $9,892
Percentage of gross domestic product is 17.5%
Amount spent by government at all levels is $4,860 per person. The rest is out of pocket, health insurance premiums or copay, drugs, etc.

Canadian Data
Total spent on healthcare per person per year is $4,753
Percentage of gross domestic product is 11.5%
Amounts spent by government at all levels is $3,341 per person. The rest is out of pocket.

Whether as a percentage of GDP or as a per capita cost, our health care system is by far the world's most expensive. That has been so for over 20 years now, and just getting worse all the time. It will destroy our economy if we don't do something about it. nojoke

[Bob Denman]

Don't you think that might pose a problem for workers in minimum-wage jobs to be able to afford that? THAT, I think, is the question this thread is all about.

Minimum wage jobs should never be a goal for someone's life... Get an education, and work hard: you'll be able to earn MUCH more money. nojoke

We bought the best policy that we could: we both needed the best available coverage possible.
If you plan to work in jobs that won't provide for your needs: prioritize!

[UtahPete]

Minimum wage jobs should never be a goal for someone's life... Get an education, and work hard: you'll be able to earn MUCH more money. nojoke
That's the difference between a capitalistic approach and a socialistic one. The assumption that health care is a privilege for those who are 'winners'; the losers have only themselves to blame?

I worked hard (since I was 15), served in the military, got an education (MBA), did everything 'right'. But, I didn't achieve much in the way of economic 'success' (not complaining - it's just the way it is). Life just isn't that simple, Bob. If not for the VA I would have been without health insurance or any way to afford health care (and I'm relatively healthy). The capitalist approach to healthcare is callous and cold-hearted and ultimately will be a national disgrace, I think.

Would Jesus be a capitalist, do you think? Or a socialist?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

So, which is worthy of more praise, great medical technology that 20% + of the population can't access, or mediocre care that everyone has access to? Guess which one has the lower infant mortality rate. In this list, https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html), out of 225 countries 54 have a lower infant mortality than the US.


Firstly, before I'm accused of hating kids, all children should have access to healthcare. Would you explain what I have bolded? Are you making an all encompassing statement that there are children in all states that don't have access to healthcare? Lately I've seen statements on various threads where comments seem to be all encompassing, all fit under the same umbrella type statements. In any case, in NYS children have access to healthcare at no cost or little cost based on family earnings. I'll admit that I don't know how this plays into other states, and was wondering if that's what you meant by access?
The reference to children's mortality rate is an example of the shortcoming in the healthcare delivery system. The 20% number is a guesstimate of how many people in this country do not have insurance or other ready access to medical care. The lack of care for mothers is a major contributor to the children's mortality rate. It would be interesting to see how children's mortality rate correlates with the parent's access to medical care. If parents have ready access to affordable medical care I dare say their children get better medical care simply due to the fact the parents are accustomed to seeking care when needed. Poor mothers who can't afford to go see the doctor for their own needs are going to be much less likely to take their children to the doctor even if the child is covered by insurance.

Aren't nearly all state sponsored children's insurance programs all just part of CHIP, the current subject of Congressional battling? I believe children's coverage is pretty much universal under CHIP.

The point that I really want to make is that in spite of the fact that we have top notch medical technology available in this country, the delivery system is lacking as evidenced by our dismal showing in children's mortality rate. That is just one of many possible examples.

I just did a Google search. About 1/3 of Americans have either no, or inadequate, medical insurance.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Minimum wage jobs should never be a goal for someone's life... Get an education, and work hard: you'll be able to earn MUCH more money. nojoke

....
If you plan to work in jobs that won't provide for your needs: prioritize!
Your assertions can easily be the subject of a whole nother discussion. Let's just say my observation of many, many, conscientious and hard working people who are employed in jobs that the American society and economy demand be performed do not support your viewpoint. They also do not adequately support the workers performing them even at wage levels well above minimum wage.

[Easy Rider]

The medical pricing scheme in this country is broken, badly.

Let's see if we can discuss this without becoming all roiled! It's a serious problem for our country. We need a rational solution.

Well the basis for that is an unfettered (unregulated) free enterprise system: Capitalism.

There are several major things that are badly broken in our country .........but the Government (politicians) is too tied up with meddling in things that it shouldn't to take care of the things that it SHOULD.

Attempts were made to start fixing it.
Those changes are now being attacked by those who would have no regulations on business at all.

All hail King Donald.

(Sorry but I couldn't resist giving my real opinion.)

Edit: And I don't hate anybody.

[RinconRyder]

Those changes are now being attacked by those who would have no regulations on business at all.



If you think things were better during the era of no regulations then you do not know your history.

[Easy Rider]

If you think things were better during the era of no regulations then you do not know your history.

You COMPLETELY missed my point; got it backwards in fact.

[UtahPete]

You COMPLETELY missed my point; got it backwards in fact.
That was my first thought. But, in re-reading it, I realized that he could be agreeing with you.

[RinconRyder]

You COMPLETELY missed my point; got it backwards in fact.

Guilty as charged. Read it too fast methinks. My apologies.

[47ModelBrit]

The reference to children's mortality rate is an example of the shortcoming in the healthcare delivery system. The 20% number is a guesstimate of how many people in this country do not have insurance or other ready access to medical care. The lack of care for mothers is a major contributor to the children's mortality rate. It would be interesting to see how children's mortality rate correlates with the parent's access to medical care. If parents have ready access to affordable medical care I dare say their children get better medical care simply due to the fact the parents are accustomed to seeking care when needed. Poor mothers who can't afford to go see the doctor for their own needs are going to be much less likely to take their children to the doctor even if the child is covered by insurance.


There's another possible reason for the high infant mortality rate in the USA. The numbers reported refer only to live births and do not include any stillbirths. It's been suggested that medical personnel here often make heroic efforts to save any newborn and often succeed even if the infant survives just for a few hours; thus infants that may have been recorded as stillborn in other countries will be reported as a live birth here. I have no statistics to back this up but it's an interesting thought.

Regardless, it doesn't change the main point of the thread - the disconnect between medical charges and the amount actually paid.

[Mazo EMS2]

Admittedly I haven't read all the replies...but in my opinion, all of the "Big Pharama" companies have waaay too big of a grip on us. How do they justify the costs of what is formulated and sold? I know we have some awesome science and capabilities in research here in the US, but to hose people for life saving drugs is ridiculous. Two drugs that come to mind are Naloxone, and Epinepherine. Naloxone can be essentially had for free to stop the effects of a drug overdose....which is typically a voluntary act by a drug addict......on the other hand, epi pens which save folks in anaphylaxis, cost an arm and a leg for those who may have allergic reactions to things that might be unknown to them or bee stings etc......It drives me crazy that I have to save some overdose slob multiple times with naloxone, but yet the little kid down the street gets stung by bees while playing with friends, and his parents get socked for the cost of the epi pen that saved him.....grrrrr...:banghead:

The war on drugs should start with Big Pharma!!! Corporate Greed is all it is!

[pitzerwm]

Having been in private practice ... if your lawyer is charging $340 an hour for work actually done by his/her legal secretary, that is absolutely fraud and you have a legitimate complaint to the local Bar association. You are entitled to an itemized bill showing what the lawyer did to earn the $340 an hour. Not only that, but they would have to produce time slips showing what they did, when they did it, and how long it took them. I'd bet that if you asked for such an accounting, the first response you'd get is an offer to simply cut the bill in half. Thing is, most people are too shy to ask for such an accounting ... and there are some lawyers who know this and depend on it. When I was licensed back in 1982, we had an honorable profession. Now it's 90% ambulance chasers. This kind of thing drove me crazy in short order which is why I spent most of my career in the Army and Air Force, both in uniform as a JAG and as a civilian attorney.


In 1990 I hired a lawyer to write a letter, the bill was $1000, I did ask for an itemized bill. They had sent the letter back and forth to an associate until it added up to $1000. I told him that I dared him to send me another bill, he didn't.

Even though I have finally found an ethical lawyer, I taught myself enough law that I was able to go into Federal court and win. I was also successful in getting the other lawyer disbarred IMO that is a trick. I'm just surprised that more of them aren't blown away.