Today's hot topic, based on a recent "60 minutes" story ... for WylieC

[UtahPete]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rejecting-hate-after-spending-nearly-a-decade-spreading-it/

What do you think of their suggestion that most terrorism-related deaths of the past decade have been at the hands of domestic, home-grown hate groups?

[mowin]

:popcorn::popcorn:

[Bob Denman]

But do they use that VPN stuff? :dontknow:

[wyliec]

My answer from yesterday was that the NSA, and CIA are doing their jobs thwarting terrorist attacks, and any further questions should be directed to them, and Bob D. But, your question from yesterday was posed in quite a different manner.

[wyliec]

But do they use that VPN stuff? :dontknow:

Bob,

By now you should no VPN's do not work, and your ISP knows exactly where you have been, and where you will probably go, and they have all your banking info, and info on your insurance clients, including their last bowel movement. And, if you have a camera attached to your PC, they are watching you know.

Wait a minute. Let me check outside; I think the sky is falling.

[UtahPete]

My answer from yesterday was that the NSA, and CIA are doing their jobs thwarting terrorist attacks, and any further questions should be directed to them, and Bob D. But, your question from yesterday was posed in quite a different manner.
Very true. Don't I get any kudos for that?

[UtahPete]

Bob, By now you should no VPN's do not work, and your ISP knows exactly where you have been, and where you will probably go, and they have all your banking info, and info on your insurance clients, including their last bowel movement. And, if you have a camera attached to your PC, they are watching you know. Wait a minute. Let me check outside; I think the sky is falling.
That's got to be a record for a thread going off-topic! Congrats.:joke:

[wyliec]

Very true. Don't I get any kudos for that?

Kudos to you; but, I will have no further comment on the subject. I'm leaving this thread, and will not look in again.:roflblack:

[Bob Denman]

Bob,

By now you should no VPN's do not work, and your ISP knows exactly where you have been, and where you will probably go, and they have all your banking info, and info on your insurance clients, including their last bowel movement. And, if you have a camera attached to your PC, they are watching you know.

Wait a minute. Let me check outside; I think the sky is falling.

Doesn't this seem like a lot of trouble, so that you can download internet porn??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::joke::joke::joke :

[UtahPete]

Doesn't this seem like a lot of trouble, so that you can download internet porn??? :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::joke::joke::joke :
What the heck are you talking about Bob? nojoke Why are you and WylieC hijacking this thread for a conversation that started on the other thread regarding net neutrality?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

perhaps the hundreds of millions we are spending on preventing islamic terrorism in the u.s. is actually paying off.
the fact is worldwide islamic terrorism is the biggest threat in islamic countries. i think if we spent less money on
fighting alcoholism there would be more dwi and alcoholics in the u.s.

pete, being in utah i'm sure you are well aware of the mormon church's discrimination of blacks in the past 35
years and their anti gay policy yet you aren't ever mentioning it. perhaps it is religious groups like mormons that
help these hate groups and their domestic terrorism.

[UtahPete]

perhaps the hundreds of millions we are spending on preventing islamic terrorism in the u.s. is actually paying off.
the fact is worldwide islamic terrorism is the biggest threat in islamic countries. i think if we spent less money on fighting alcoholism there would be more dwi and alcoholics in the u.s.

pete, being in utah i'm sure you are well aware of the mormon church's discrimination of blacks in the past 35 years and their anti gay policy yet you aren't ever mentioning it. perhaps it is religious groups like mormons that help these hate groups and their domestic terrorism.

If I thought for one moment that Mormon church policy was one of hatred, and supporting hate groups, I would have said so. But, I have no reason to believe that and in fact believe just the opposite - that they actively work in communities and around the world to create harmony among groups. Discrimination of a group by a religious faith is not the same thing as hatred.

I think it's important to note that the discrimination you allude to of blacks and gays is with the church's acceptance of those groups for certain church functions, such as leadership roles or certain sacraments. That discrimination does not extend to individuals in the community, any more than other American communities practice discrimination (and in some cases, far less).

I live in Utah, but I'm not religious at all. And, for the most part I feel accepted, both by the church-members and community members. They really do believe in helping their fellow man, regardless of whether those needing help are in the church.

[Bob Denman]

What the heck are you talking about Bob? nojoke Why are you and WylieC hijacking this thread for a conversation that started on the other thread regarding net neutrality?

Relax... :cheers:

[UtahPete]

Relax... :cheers:
:clap:ya got me!

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

If I thought for one moment that Mormon church policy was one of hatred, and supporting hate groups, I would have said so. But, I have no reason to believe that and in fact believe just the opposite - that they actively work in communities and around the world to create harmony among groups. Discrimination of a group by a religious faith is not the same thing as hatred.

I think it's important to note that the discrimination you allude to of blacks and gays is with the church's acceptance of those groups for certain church functions, such as leadership roles or certain sacraments. That discrimination does not extend to individuals in the community, any more than other American communities practice discrimination (and in some cases, far less).

I live in Utah, but I'm not religious at all. And, for the most part I feel accepted, both by the church-members and community members. They really do believe in helping their fellow man, regardless of whether those needing help are in the church.

didn't the mormon bible say something like "dark skin is a curse from god" and didn't the mormons spend millions $$
fighting prop 8 in ca.?
no mormons don't outright kill or beat up others they just endorse it. so i guess it is ok for a white supremist to
donate money just as long as they don't hang a black man or burn a cross.

[UtahPete]

didn't the mormon bible say something like "dark skin is a curse from god" and didn't the mormons spend millions $$ fighting prop 8 in ca.? no mormons don't outright kill or beat up others they just endorse it. so i guess it is ok for a white supremist to donate money just as long as they don't hang a black man or burn a cross.
I don't agree with the conclusions you are drawing from the statements I made. It seems your mind is made up about certain religions and nothing is going to change that.

[ARtraveler]

"I see nothing, I hear nothing, in fact, I was never here." "Sgt. Schultze" :roflblack:

[MRH]

I fall to the left on social freedoms, and my experience is that Mormons are both very accepting of others, and also have high ethical standards. I do disagree with some of their beliefs, such as on the right of people to marry consenting adults, but I overall I've found that they are the kinds of people I would want to hire in my business.

On the subject of those of African decent, as I understand it they have changed their doctrine. I think that says a great deal about their ability to change and grow. It took a war and the decades that followed for our country to do the same.

[UtahPete]

I fall to the left on social freedoms, and my experience is that Mormons are both very accepting of others, and also have high ethical standards. I do disagree with some of their beliefs, such as on the right of people to marry consenting adults, but I overall I've found that they are the kinds of people I would want to hire in my business.

On the subject of those of African decent, as I understand it they have changed their doctrine. I think that says a great deal about their ability to change and grow. It took a war and the decades that followed for our country to do the same.
Well said. Thanks.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

well i guess i am just to stubborn to accept those who are part of a religion that less then 40 years ago discriminated
as a whole against blacks and still won't let the government look into where their money goes. i don't trust a religion
that has something to hide nor can i trust those who would defend it.

[UtahPete]

well i guess i am just to stubborn to accept those who are part of a religion that less then 40 years ago discriminated as a whole against blacks and still won't let the government look into where their money goes. i don't trust a religion that has something to hide nor can i trust those who would defend it.
Are there any you like and trust?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Are there any you like and trust?

Buddhist & confusions. as for gods i trust bor, crom, bel.
as for religions i don't trust any that ever endorsed slavery, child molesting, poligamy or wife beating.
i know i am a picky guy but that is what i believe.
i don't like gods who endorse things that in this country that are illegal or any gods who commit genocide.
am i a bad person in my beliefs?

[Bob Denman]

156453

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

156453

Who is that?

[UtahPete]

Buddhist & confusions. as for gods i trust bor, crom, bel.as for religions i don't trust any that ever endorsed slavery, child molesting, poligamy or wife beating.i know i am a picky guy but that is what i believe.i don't like gods who endorse things that in this country that are illegal or any gods who commit genocide.am i a bad person in my beliefs?
Is it fair to say you're not religious, maybe even agnostic? That doesn't make you a bad person. What makes for a bad person in my opinion is someone who is intolerant of others.

[Bob Denman]

Is it fair to say you're not religious, maybe even agnostic? That doesn't make you a bad person. What makes for a bad person in my opinion is someone who is intolerant of others.

We all hate intolerance: don't we? :roflblack: :D

[UtahPete]

We all hate intolerance: don't we? :roflblack: :D
I'd like to think so.nojoke

[Bob Denman]

:D So... does this mean that you can't tolerate it? :joke:

Hmmmmmm... imagine that. :ohyea:

[UtahPete]

:D So... does this mean that you can't tolerate it? :joke: Hmmmmmm... imagine that. :ohyea:
Ahhh, very good. Ya got me.

[Pirate looks at --]

Is it fair to say you're not religious, maybe even agnostic? That doesn't make you a bad person. What makes for a bad person in my opinion is someone who is intolerant of others.
Well Pete, he just admitted that he hates all religions! They are all guilty of at least one of those transgressions! I have had the opportunity to work with a lot of folks that are LDS, and they are some of the best people I have ever met. One of my major vendors is headquartered in SLC and there's employees are mostly LDS of varying degree of devotion, but all are quality people that do not discriminate in any way. They are human beings, that were raised in the Church, even they don't agree with all of what they are taught and are accepting of people as individuals.

Some people here LOVE to paint with a very broad brush, they always will, and you can't reason with them. Just be glad you are not like them!:bowdown: Merry Christmas! Oops this from a religion that has practiced almost all of the transgressions mentioned in a previous post!:pray:

[UtahPete]

Well Pete, he just admitted that he hates all religions! They are all guilty of at least one of those transgressions! I have had the opportunity to work with a lot of folks that are LDS, and they are some of the best people I have ever met. One of my major vendors is headquartered in SLC and there's employees are mostly LDS of varying degree of devotion, but all are quality people that do not discriminate in any way. They are human beings, that were raised in the Church, even they don't agree with all of what they are taught and are accepting of people as individuals.

Some people here LOVE to paint with a very broad brush, they always will, and you can't reason with them. Just be glad you are not like them!:bowdown: Merry Christmas! Oops this from a religion that has practiced almost all of the transgressions mentioned in a previous post!:pray:
I think it's possible to reject the political ideology or religious theology without rejecting the people who adhere to either. Not easy sometimes, but I think it's important to separate a person's behavior toward others from their beliefs because they're often not the same thing!

[ofdave]

well i guess i am just to stubborn to accept those who are part of a religion that less then 40 years ago discriminated
as a whole against blacks and still won't let the government look into where their money goes. i don't trust a religion
that has something to hide nor can i trust those who would defend it.

Can you accept any religion who discriminates against all who are not of that religion (not because of color or race), and has for many hundreds of years? Is that different? Or better? Or OK?

why should they "let the government look into where their money goes"?
do you actually think any or all religions let the government look into where their money goes?

do you tell the government where your money goes? Or do you feel they know? Is it the right of the government to know where it goes? Do you think your spending your money on a Spyder is all right with the government? Or is it, maybe, none of their business?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Can you accept any religion who discriminates against all who are not of that religion (not because of color or race), and has for many hundreds of years? Is that different? Or better? Or OK?

why should they "let the government look into where their money goes"?
do you actually think any or all religions let the government look into where their money goes?

do you tell the government where your money goes? Or do you feel they know? Is it the right of the government to know where it goes? Do you think your spending your money on a Spyder is all right with the government? Or is it, maybe, none of their business?

as an incorporated business i can get audited, all religions file an incorporation when they open in the u.s. but
the mormon church has always been very secretive about their money yet mormons are required a minimum of
10% tithe to be part of the church.
scientology requires large amounts of money for auditing and yet doesn't want the irs to audit them.
I am not questioning the individuals of the religions but the constructs of it dictated by their 'gods'. if the god
is immoral what kind of teaching can they give to it's followers?
In actuality to be a good follower of any religion you must adhere to it's bible or doctrines yet when you examine
these doctrines and actions of the gods you find out how illegal or immoral they are.
To be a good muslim you have no problem with rape or wife beating, to be a good mormon you have no problem
with polygamy or racism towards blacks, to be a good christian you would see nothing wrong with beating a son
for being disobediant or selling your daughter into slavery if you needed the money, to be a good jew you will
defend god for committing genocide against children.
Penn from penn & teller said the best way to make someone an atheist is to read the bible. Crom never did any of
these evils nor asked others to do so and i don't remember vishnu asking for virgin sacrifice.

[UtahPete]

as an incorporated business i can get audited, all religions file an incorporation when they open in the u.s. but the mormon church has always been very secretive about their money yet mormons are required a minimum of 10% tithe to be part of the church. scientology requires large amounts of money for auditing and yet doesn't want the irs to audit them. I am not questioning the individuals of the religions but the constructs of it dictated by their 'gods'. if the god is immoral what kind of teaching can they give to it's followers? In actuality to be a good follower of any religion you must adhere to it's bible or doctrines yet when you examine these doctrines and actions of the gods you find out how illegal or immoral they are. To be a good muslim you have no problem with rape or wife beating, to be a good mormon you have no problem with polygamy or racism towards blacks, to be a good christian you would see nothing wrong with beating a son for being disobediant or selling your daughter into slavery if you needed the money, to be a good jew you will defend god for committing genocide against children. Penn from penn & teller said the best way to make someone an atheist is to read the bible. Crom never did any of these evils nor asked others to do so and i don't remember vishnu asking for virgin sacrifice.
Your beliefs are not based on fact, any more than religions are. Your understanding of theologies seems very twisted and hostile for some reason. Maybe you could explain where the hostility comes from, rather than trying to convince others that their beliefs are wrong.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Your beliefs are not based on fact, any more than religions are. Your understanding of theologies seems very twisted and hostile for some reason. Maybe you could explain where the hostility comes from, rather than trying to convince others that their beliefs are wrong.

I READ.
are you going to tell me that the moromon bible never mentioned something like black skin is a curse of cain?
are you going to tell me that the koran doesn't tell you about beating your wife or killing non muslims?
are you going to tell me the bible doesn't say something like beating to death a disobedient
son or selling your daughter if you need the money?
are you going to tell me that the hebrew god didn't kill first born egytian son's during the
10 plagues?

i think the hostility might come from reading the bible if you really want to know then read
them. oh and while you read it tell me how you know xmas is 12/25 not really in oct or sept.
as actually indicated in the bible but don't forget about the pagans.

[UtahPete]

I READ. i think the hostility might come from reading the bible if you really want to know then read them.

Nope, that's not it. Plenty of people (including me) have read the bible without becoming hostile towards bible-based religions.

The inconsistencies and pure fantastical stories and claims caused me to become atheist. I know plenty of people who reconcile those very same intellectual challenges in favor of just trusting in their faith. I don't know of anyone whose reading and study of religions has in itself caused them to be angry at the world.

There is definitely something else going on with you I think. Which is not to say there is something wrong or bad about you.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Nope, that's not it. Plenty of people (including me) have read the bible without becoming hostile towards bible-based religions.

wow :yikes: that seems a little bit of an egocentric statement, out of the 1 billion plus christians in the world that you
represent a large number of them.

[UtahPete]

wow :yikes: that seems a little bit of an egocentric statement, out of the 1 billion plus christians in the world that you
represent a large number of them.
I believe you want to hang onto your anger. You don't seem interested in understanding so much as validating your attitude.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I believe you want to hang onto your anger. You don't seem interested in understanding so much as validating your attitude.

let's stop the psychoanalyzing 101 b.s.
try to answer some of my points or dispute them with proof if you can.

[UtahPete]

let's stop the psychoanalyzing 101 b.s. try to answer some of my points or dispute them with proof if you can.
What is your first point? Not accusations, but what point are you trying to make with your accusations about religions?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

What is your first point? Not accusations, but what point are you trying to make with your accusations about religions?

answer any of this, if you don't want to answer then please don't reply.

are you going to tell me that the moromon bible never mentioned something like black skin is a curse of cain?
are you going to tell me that the koran doesn't tell you about beating your wife or killing non muslims?
are you going to tell me the bible doesn't say something like beating to death a disobedient
son or selling your daughter if you need the money?
are you going to tell me that the hebrew god didn't kill first born egytian son's during the
10 plagues?

i think the hostility might come from reading the bible if you really want to know then read
them. oh and while you read it tell me how you know xmas is 12/25 not really in oct or sept.
as actually indicated in the bible but don't forget about the pagans.

[UtahPete]

answer any of this, if you don't want to answer then please don't reply.

are you going to tell me that the moromon bible never mentioned something like black skin is a curse of cain?
are you going to tell me that the koran doesn't tell you about beating your wife or killing non muslims?
are you going to tell me the bible doesn't say something like beating to death a disobedient son or selling your daughter if you need the money?
are you going to tell me that the hebrew god didn't kill first born egytian son's during the 10 plagues?

i think the hostility might come from reading the bible if you really want to know then read them. oh and while you read it tell me how you know xmas is 12/25 not really in oct or sept. as actually indicated in the bible but don't forget about the pagans.
I'm not going to dispute any of what you are saying. But, assuming you are correct in every instance, what do any of those things have to do with anything? What is the point you are trying to make? That religion is evil or what? I've already said that religion doesn't work for me and apparently it doesn't work for you either. So, what else are you trying to say?

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

I'm not going to dispute any of what you are saying. But, assuming you are correct in every instance, what do any of those things have to do with anything? What is the point you are trying to make? That religion is evil or what? I've already said that religion doesn't work for me and apparently it doesn't work for you either. So, what else are you trying to say?

as i expected, thank you.

[ofdave]

as i expected, thank you.

that's it?
shucks, I was waiting for your answer to his question

[Bob Denman]

:agree:

:shocked: I was at least hopin' for a decent food fight!:banghead:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLdO2V1CTF0