UtahPete

[wyliec]

What's going on with a couple of Utah's National Parks? Will there be exploration and exploitation by big business?

[UtahPete]

What's going on with a couple of Utah's National Parks? Will there be exploration and exploitation by big business?
Sorry, just got back from local Spyder Club Xmas party. But, I'm sober so I think I can give you a straight answer.

The National Parks in Utah were not affected by the latest actions by the White House. What was drastically affected were the two National Monuments. Grand-Staircase-Escalante was designated by President Clinton and is in the south central part of the state. Spectacular landscape, but also rich in archaeological and pale-ontological sites. Bears Ears was designated by President Obam* ; it has immense value culturally to the native Americans, as well as pristine wilderness and archaeology from early civilizations. Both were being exploited by pot-hunters, miners, etc and would have been damaged beyond repair by the burgeoning off-road enthusiasts (who were not only scarring the landscape but also vandalizing historical sites) and the growing mining and oil interests if they had not been put under the protection of the feds. Utah politicians and big-money interests have been fighting both National Monuments since their inception and won a great victory by having both scaled back in size on a very large scale. Now they will be exploited by big business and off-road enthusiasts alike.

Very sad day for American public lands.

[ARtraveler]

Not UP, but they have cut the designation back from 1 million acres to 200 thousand.

UP will fill in the details as to how affected the "good stuff" will be.

I am thinking the argument is the 800 thousand acres that they added for awhile. Lots of people affected by that--I am guessing.

[UtahPete]

This is a good, balanced (I think) article explaining what happened today in reducing the size of Utah's two National Monuments by 2 million acres, and why it was done. It goes on to explain there are many other National Monuments on the hit list - these are just the first and biggest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-scales-back-two-huge-national-monuments-in-utah-drawing-praise-and-protests/2017/12/04/758c85c6-d908-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html?utm_term=.a21c7b6272bf&wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1

[Chupaca]

:wrong: :banghead::banghead:

[wyliec]

UP,

I guess I need to look up the difference between a National Monument and National Park. They both seem to refer to land under Federal jurisdiction.:dontknow:


Okay, I did look it up, and now I know.

Here's an interesting comment I found in the Utah article regarding reduction of the two National Monuments:

'But according to former county commissioner and Navajo elder Mark Maryboy, cultural sensitivity is hard to find in San Juan County. "They didn't want to work with us," he says. "In fact, one of the county commissioners told me 'You guys lost the war so you have no business talking about the land planning process.'" '

[Bob Denman]

All that I want to know, is if they'll open up some more ATVing areas? :dontknow:
:clap::congrats: on living in a larger State now! :2thumbs:

[Pirate looks at --]

Sorry, just got back from local Spyder Club Xmas party. But, I'm sober so I think I can give you a straight answer.

The National Parks in Utah were not affected by the latest actions by the White House. What was drastically affected were the two National Monuments. Grand-Staircase-Escalante was designated by President Clinton and is in the south central part of the state. Spectacular landscape, but also rich in archaeological and pale-ontological sites. Bears Ears was designated by President Obam* ; it has immense value culturally to the native Americans, as well as pristine wilderness and archaeology from early civilizations. Both were being exploited by pot-hunters, miners, etc and would have been damaged beyond repair by the burgeoning off-road enthusiasts (who were not only scarring the landscape but also vandalizing historical sites) and the growing mining and oil interests if they had not been put under the protection of the feds. Utah politicians and big-money interests have been fighting both National Monuments since their inception and won a great victory by having both scaled back in size on a very large scale. Now they will be exploited by big business and off-road enthusiasts alike.

Very sad day for American public lands.

Our entire country is in the midst of very sad times indeed. I only hope we survive!

[ofdave]

Our entire country is in the midst of very sad times indeed. I only hope we survive!


well, we made it through the last 8 years of sadder/worse times
so I'm optimistic

[Bob Denman]

:agree: We all survived: so will you! :thumbup:

[UtahPete]

All that I want to know, is if they'll open up some more ATVing areas?
It was never off limits to off roading. That's the populist issue the politicos use to rile up the base.

[Bob Denman]

:D Well THAT's a relief! :thumbup:
I've got an ATVing buddy in Clinton: I'll have to ask him what his opinion is of the riding in there.
(He's got a BRP "Outtie-10 Max", that he puts tracks on for the Winter! :bowdown:)

[UtahPete]

:D Well THAT's a relief! :thumbup: I've got an ATVing buddy in Clinton: I'll have to ask him what his opinion is of the riding in there. (He's got a BRP "Outtie-10 Max", that he puts tracks on for the Winter! :bowdown:)

Sounds like a hard-core outdoor enthusiast. It will be interesting to get his take on the N.M. issue. He lives in the opposite corner of the state from Bears Ears and has plenty of great wilderness within an hour's drive from his house.

[wyliec]

well, we made it through the last 8 years of sadder/worse times
so I'm optimistic


You keep on believing in the social media prostitute; that's your right.

[UtahPete]

You keep on believing in the social media prostitute; that's your right.
Thanks. I was failing in my attempt to respond without starting a political argument. Saving our public lands for future generations to enjoy should not be a partisan issue.

[UtahPete]

What's going on with a couple of Utah's National Parks? Will there be exploration and exploitation by big business?
It's not going to end with shrinking Utah's two National Monuments ... more are on the chopping block, as is the way all will be managed...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/zinke-backs-shrinking-more-national-monuments-shifting-management-of-10-others/2017/12/05/e116344e-d9e5-11e7-b1a8-62589434a581_story.html?utm_term=.30e2decdab34&wpisrc=al_environment__alert-hse&wpmk=1

"In addition to the Utah sites, Zinke confirmed in a call with reporters that he supports cutting Nevada’s Gold Butte and Oregon’s Cascade-Siskiyou, though the exact reductions are still being determined"

[Bob Denman]

Sounds like a hard-core outdoor enthusiast. It will be interesting to get his take on the N.M. issue. He lives in the opposite corner of the state from Bears Ears and has plenty of great wilderness within an hour's drive from his house.

Yup! He rides up to just about 12,000 feet from his back yard... :bowdown:

[ARtraveler]

There are always the never ending discussions between the environmentalists (greenies) and the "other" users of lands. Both sets of arguments make good points. Who is right--in the end? :dontknow:

I worked as finance director for two separate "greenie" organizations here in Alaska. Twelve years for one and about seven years for the other. Got to know them well. They knew my position both in politics and other issues--but they kept me around anyway. :roflblack: Many times they would ask my opinion on issues so they would know what the "other" side was thinking. :D:D

Sometimes, those who claim to be "guardians" of the land are really not. Been on a reservation lately? It's not all good there.

[ofdave]

You keep on believing in the social media prostitute; that's your right.

It sure is.
I won't stoop to your low of name calling of your choices.

[UtahPete]

It sure is. I won't stoop to your low of name calling of your choices.
Please stop this childishness. Take your petty political peeves elsewhere.

[UtahPete]

There are always the never ending discussions between the environmentalists (greenies) and the "other" users of lands. Both sets of arguments make good points. Who is right--in the end? :dontknow: I worked as finance director for two separate "greenie" organizations here in Alaska. Twelve years for one and about seven years for the other. Got to know them well. They knew my position both in politics and other issues--but they kept me around anyway. :roflblack: Many times they would ask my opinion on issues so they would know what the "other" side was thinking. :D:D Sometimes, those who claim to be "guardians" of the land are really not. Been on a reservation lately? It's not all good there.
I don't think in this case there was any attempt to improve stewardship of public lands. There were and are other motives at work here.

[wyliec]

Please stop this childishness. Take your petty political peeves elsewhere.

Actually what he said is funny, since I did vote for him and not her.