Guess when I used Premium vs Regular

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm doing this poll mostly for fun with a 10 day time frame. But in all seriousness I also would like for us to get an idea of just how meaningless some of our debates over gas mileage really can be!

This is in follow up to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?109130-Average-MPG-Display where I said keeping track of MPG of a Spyder is pretty much an exercise in futility and I would post graphs showing why I say that. Here are four graphs of my MPG for the summer riding seasons of 2016 and 2017. Pay attention to the Y axis scale. It's not the same on all four graphs in order to make the variation in MPG more clear.

This one is my MPG at each fill up.

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This one is the running average MPG over 4 fills.

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This one is the running average MPG over 10 fills. Even over 10 fills MPG varies, but naturally not nearly as much as fill to fill.

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And this one is the average over all the miles on the Spyder.

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As you can see gas mileage goes up and down like a kid on a trampoline. The only one that is really informative is the all mileage average, and in my case it is constantly changing. Now, can you tell from the graphs above which season I ran premium gas and which season I ran regular? Many of the members here have vigorously argued they can clearly tell a difference. My driving habits have been basically the same each season and the Spyder has been the same each season. I do have an F4 tall and wide windshield which is full up most all the time, so that undoubtedly has an impact on mileage. Most of my driving is on highways at 70+ MPH. As we all know, speed hurts MPG!

I also had one long trip pulling a trailer. Can you tell when it was?

[old Timer]

You get the best mileage and best power with the lowest Octane you can use with out detonation or pre ignition.

Premium is not a "higher quality" or "Better" fuel, it actually burns slower and is harder to light off. A lot more can be said about this.


So I suspect that running regular gave you better fuel mileage. Most people run Premium foolishly, an ego thing in most cases.

[Boilermaker]

Premium an ego thing? First time I ever heard that one. :roflblack: I'd run jet fuel in mine if that were the case.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

i have read it is best to run manufacturers recommendation

[Mr. White]

I use regular in my Wing and Spyder. I also used regular in my '95 Wing and my 2011 Spyder. I get 32 mpg on my Wing (36 before I triked it in '05) and 34-36 on Mr. Cognac. Our local Wal Mart has ethanol free gas which I have used several times. I can't tell the difference so back to regular. The ethanol free is the same price at premium..... On the Interstate I run the speed limit plus 2 (75 and 80 in west TX) and in hills, I run with my crowd.

:spyder2:

[Bob Denman]

Premium here... unless I'm forced to run 87 octane.
I once did some testing, and found that my 2010 (998) got significantly better mileage with 91 octane: 9%
My 2014 (1330) didn't seem to be affected by the octane levels: mileages were unchanged.

[blacklightning]

I have always used premium in my motorcycles, unless I could not purchase anything else.
Well, earlier this month at the spyder rally in Maggie Valley, I experimented with using regular, and I actually got 1-3 more mpg. I still prefer premium, but if I am going to go through a full tank of gas (a 200 mile ride or more), then I will sometimes use regular. I figure at highway speeds it will probably not make a difference.

[Buckeye Chuck 54]

I read some months back in Rider magazine in letters to the editor, a reader asked this, regular or premium. The reply stated in a liquid cooled engine the combustion chamber will stay at a more constant temperature than an air cooled engine. An air cooled engine when in stop and go traffic, the combustion chamber can get very hot and running regular gas "detonation" and "pinging" can occur. My '14 RT-S has a temperature gauge that rarely moves at all, once the engine has been run, of course. Even in hot summer riding. My RT has quite a few miles on it, nearing 145,000 miles and have been running regular gas since it had about 43,000. Haven't had any problems yet.
Chuck

[Chupaca]

For the most part I have found little difference and for the price per tank on the spyder not much either. Being in CA we have some wierd fuel mixtures they stick us with ( summer blend, winter blend, hollywood blend...:roflblack:) the only time I noticed a big change was when I was in a hurry and found a free pump only to find out I had filled up with racing fuel...wow..The only other thing to consider is the additives they put in the more expensive fuels :thumbup:

[Big F]

You get the best mileage and best power with the lowest Octane you can use with out detonation or pre ignition.

Premium is not a "higher quality" or "Better" fuel, it actually burns slower and is harder to light off. A lot more can be said about this.


So I suspect that running regular gave you better fuel mileage. Most people run Premium foolishly, an ego thing in most cases.

Finally, someone says it like it is! meaning the ego thing as I cannot see any noticable difference in the two octanes with my 2014 RT Limited..
BIG F

[Dmetcalf]

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this but I chose to run premium gas in my $30K machine. It runs great on it and I don’t mind paying the extra for it.

[Easy Rider]

I’m sure I’ll get flamed on this but I chose to run premium gas in my $30K machine. It runs great on it and I don’t mind paying the extra for it.


AND......that's what BRP recommends.

Doing that in a machine that doesn't in any way need it is just foolish.......whether you "mind" or not.

[Bfromla]

:thumbup: Thanks for trying, actually going to try my own test next year too, with trailer mode on but no trailer. Will be different I'm sure with the new EPA minimums & other ethonal crap coming out. I've found a good steady line (27MPG)running Shell 93 with V-power & has been EZ enough to find in good consistency. I am close to 40k miles mark & sure a heathy tune up around corner & will end said test starting new chart.

[cruisinTX]

I'm wondering what you did to control a variable not seen mentioned here (at least in my quick browse through). I have only owned our 2014 RT for a short time but have noticed it is extremely difficult to get it all the way full. I can see where if a person is very patient and intent on getting the tank 100% full they can do so. On the other hand, those who are not so patient will cut short with trickling gas in so they can get on the road more quickly. It is also obvious that the angle the Spyder is sitting will affect how easily it is to fill to the top. The ability of each pump to trickle or not would be a factor as well. So, all that begs the question, in your testing, how did you make sure the tank was filled to exactly the same level every time? That variable of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon can make a huge difference in mileage calculations on a 7 gallon tank.

[Easy Rider]

That variable of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon can make a huge difference in mileage calculations on a 7 gallon tank.

Not over several tanks it won't.
If you are a little short one time, you likely will put in a little more next time.

MPG figures based on only one fill are a fools errand.

Multiple tank fills are needed to erase the error that you are talking about.

P.S. You should NOT be trying to fill it to the very top.
That is potentially bad for you and the bike.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm wondering what you did to control a variable not seen mentioned here (at least in my quick browse through). I have only owned our 2014 RT for a short time but have noticed it is extremely difficult to get it all the way full. I can see where if a person is very patient and intent on getting the tank 100% full they can do so. On the other hand, those who are not so patient will cut short with trickling gas in so they can get on the road more quickly. It is also obvious that the angle the Spyder is sitting will affect how easily it is to fill to the top. The ability of each pump to trickle or not would be a factor as well. So, all that begs the question, in your testing, how did you make sure the tank was filled to exactly the same level every time? That variable of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon can make a huge difference in mileage calculations on a 7 gallon tank.
I usually try to fill right up as far as I can. But you're right, it does make a difference but only on the per fill MPG. That's why when someone says I got such and such MPG on this tank of super duper gas and only so much on the next tank of el cheapo gas the comparison is rather meaningless.

On the 4 fill average MPG variations between fills are smoothed out and only the last of the four has an effect. But then it does only to the extent that the last fill varies from the fill before the first of the four. Is that clear, or not? The four fill average is the average of the current fill plus the previous three. And on the ten fill average the variation in fill levels becomes negligible. In other words, if every time I filled the tank only 3/4 full, the long term MPG doesn't change, but if I fill it all the way and the next time only 1/2 then the current MPG number would really be wacky. But one full tank averaged with nine 3/4 tanks would have little effect on the average MPG.

That's why I focus on the 4 fill graph. Four fill average is an arbitrary selection. I figured that averages out the fill variation and driving variation of each tank while giving a somewhat good view of real MPG as it varies with different driving conditions. I did the ten fill graph just for kicks to see what kind of variation in MPG it might show. It's more than I thought it would be!

Good question. I'm glad you asked.

[ARtraveler]

I'm wondering what you did to control a variable not seen mentioned here (at least in my quick browse through). I have only owned our 2014 RT for a short time but have noticed it is extremely difficult to get it all the way full. I can see where if a person is very patient and intent on getting the tank 100% full they can do so. On the other hand, those who are not so patient will cut short with trickling gas in so they can get on the road more quickly. It is also obvious that the angle the Spyder is sitting will affect how easily it is to fill to the top. The ability of each pump to trickle or not would be a factor as well. So, all that begs the question, in your testing, how did you make sure the tank was filled to exactly the same level every time? That variable of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon can make a huge difference in mileage calculations on a 7 gallon tank.

Back in the days when I posted directions for mpg--one of them was to fill to the same level each time. I now mention this as one of the 100 variables that can affect the final number. :thumbup:

[Peter Aawen]

But surely, if you work off how many gallons (or litres, or whatever) you can put into your tank after having driven/ridden however far, over time the progressive average becomes more & more accurate & the minute differences in actual fill levels become basically meaningless... It's like AKS saying he only ever works to one decimal place & rounds up - that's a perfectly valid approach because the tiny variations presented by going to 2 decimal places are made meaningless by the differences in measuring devices/pumps etc but are evened out over time regardless! :dontknow:

So working out & averaging Miles PER GALLON or Kilometres PER LITRE or whatever it is you use, over time becomes more meaningful the longer you do it - and, at least for me anyway, it gives me a great handle on the range that I can expect from each 'full' tank of gas! So that once I fill up my V-twin RT, I can know with a fairly high degree of certainty that I WILL be able to reach that next fuel stop that might be 400 kms away! I don't really care what the kpl or mpg number actually is, but I do care that there is no fuel supply in the 400kms between here & there except that in my tank, & I really don't think I'm up to pushing my Spyder 5kms let alone 100! So I need to know that range is fairly reliable/accurate, or I need to carry more fuel somehow! ;)

But if you start worrying about all the variables that can impact fuel range, you might as well not bother, because they include things like the ambient temp AND humidity, the pressure in your tires, the age & tread depth of your tires, the altitude you will be ryding at, the road surface you'll be ryding on, the temperature of the road surface, the weight your spyder is carrying, the height your windscreen is set at today/now, the wind velocity you'll be ryding in, how flappy or aerodynamic your clothes are today, even how long ago or how recently you washed your spyder & I'm sure there are a myriad I missed that can impact as well!! But the reality is that they really only make TINY differences that are ironed out over time anyway....& as such can safely be ignored. So like I said earlier, the more/longer you average the more accurate that becomes AND the more you do it the better you will become at recognising those things that might vary your range significantly & how great any consequent variation is likely to be!! Before this last ECU upgrade I KNEW I could travel 250km safely on 'a tank of gas' cos the variables weren't great enough to impact significantly on that - now that I've done the ECU upgrade I'm developing data to support a new 'safe' range, which atm is looking good for 300km of 'spirited ryding' & is looking likely to be 400kms of touring/cruising; & gathering regular/consistent info on how many kms per litre I get as I travel from each fill up over time will improve the accuracy of that range estimation.... :thumbup:

[cruisinTX]

Tank range is also my biggest concern. I know the Spyders are not going get anywhere near the fuel mileage of my bikes, but if I can get 180 to 190 miles on a tank, I'm going to be very happy. I did just that last Wednesday with 194 miles on the tank. I'm sort of spoiled with the longer range bikes getting right at 200 miles on the cruiser and 270 on the sport-touring with it's 7.25 gallon tank. :thumbup:

[RinconRyder]

...

Not sure of the elevation where you are but as you go higher you can drop the fuel rating accordingly. Not necessary to run high octane at high elevations.

[pegasus1300]

Tank range is also my biggest concern. I know the Spyders are not going get anywhere near the fuel mileage of my bikes, but if I can get 180 to 190 miles on a tank, I'm going to be very happy. I did just that last Wednesday with 194 miles on the tank. I'm sort of spoiled with the longer range bikes getting right at 200 miles on the cruiser and 270 on the sport-touring with it's 7.25 gallon tank. :thumbup:

I don't know how you all do it. 150 miles is about 3 hrs and that is as much as the "other" tank can hold before it has to be emptied. As long as I can do 150 miles between fill ups (and empties) I am happy.

[cruisinTX]

I don't know how you all do it. 150 miles is about 3 hrs and that is as much as the "other" tank can hold before it has to be emptied. As long as I can do 150 miles between fill ups (and empties) I am happy.

hehehe, well chosen photo stops that include bushes or trees in need of watering is a good way to extend your personal tank range.

[Peter Aawen]

I don't know how you all do it. 150 miles is about 3 hrs and .....

If I did the mental conversion properly, 150 miles works out to about 240 kms, & depending upon where/which way you are heading here in Aus, that can mean just over 2 hours of ryding.... some places even less.... Get out on the open road & 400 km between cities is generally just less than 4 hours of ryding at legal cruising speeds; but apart from Sydney to Canberra (major cities which are pretty close to each other) that's often not even half way there yet! Yeah, sure, there are times & places where you don't want to punt along like that, but this country is a big place with lotsa wide open spaces in between the major settled areas (well, except along the East Coast! People live in their neighbour's pockets there!) so ryding long distances becomes a necessity or you can die stuck between fuel stops! And it's really only the major routes that have fuel stops every couple of hundred kms! In about 2/3rds of this country, if you can't carry enough fuel & water to make the next stop then you are basically committing suicide to leave! :shocked: So maybe you can appreciate a little more about why getting better than 250km range is so important to me??

Oh, & just for what it's worth, & I understand YMMV, but I consistently get better than 4km per litre MORE from each litre of Premium fuel than I get from std ULP - & my records include EVERY litre of fuel that's ever run thru my machine & every km it's ever travelled..... a machine which is tuned to run best on Premium! (Even more so now!) Sure, it runs on the std ULP, just not so well nor as efficiently.... ;)

[pegasus1300]

If I did the mental conversion properly, 150 miles works out to about 240 kms, & depending upon where/which way you are heading here in Aus, that can mean just over 2 hours of ryding.... some places even less.... Get out on the open road & 400 km between cities is generally just less than 4 hours of ryding at legal cruising speeds; but apart from Sydney to Canberra (major cities which are pretty close to each other) that's often not even half way there yet! Yeah, sure, there are times & places where you don't want to punt along like that, but this country is a big place with lotsa wide open spaces in between the major settled areas (well, except along the East Coast! People live in their neighbour's pockets there!) so ryding long distances becomes a necessity or you can die stuck between fuel stops! And it's really only the major routes that have fuel stops every couple of hundred kms! In about 2/3rds of this country, if you can't carry enough fuel & water to make the next stop then you are basically committing suicide to leave! :shocked: So maybe you can appreciate a little more about why getting better than 250km range is so important to me??

Oh, & just for what it's worth, & I understand YMMV, but I consistently get better than 4km per litre MORE from each litre of Premium fuel than I get from std ULP - & my records include EVERY litre of fuel that's ever run thru my machine & every km it's ever travelled..... a machine which is tuned to run best on Premium! (Even more so now!) Sure, it runs on the std UPL, just not so well nor as efficiently.... ;)

I always figure an ave speed of 50mph,thus 3hrs=150 miles. Yes sometimes I get more sometimes less but that is pretty average over 50+ years on the road.

[pegasus1300]

If I did the mental conversion properly, 150 miles works out to about 240 kms, & depending upon where/which way you are heading here in Aus, that can mean just over 2 hours of ryding.... some places even less.... Get out on the open road & 400 km between cities is generally just less than 4 hours of ryding at legal cruising speeds; but apart from Sydney to Canberra (major cities which are pretty close to each other) that's often not even half way there yet! Yeah, sure, there are times & places where you don't want to punt along like that, but this country is a big place with lotsa wide open spaces in between the major settled areas (well, except along the East Coast! People live in their neighbour's pockets there!) so ryding long distances becomes a necessity or you can die stuck between fuel stops! And it's really only the major routes that have fuel stops every couple of hundred kms! In about 2/3rds of this country, if you can't carry enough fuel & water to make the next stop then you are basically committing suicide to leave! :shocked: So maybe you can appreciate a little more about why getting better than 250km range is so important to me??

Oh, & just for what it's worth, & I understand YMMV, but I consistently get better than 4km per litre MORE from each litre of Premium fuel than I get from std ULP - & my records include EVERY litre of fuel that's ever run thru my machine & every km it's ever travelled..... a machine which is tuned to run best on Premium! (Even more so now!) Sure, it runs on the std UPL, just not so well nor as efficiently.... ;)

I always figure an ave speed of 50mph,thus 3hrs=150 miles. Yes sometimes I get more sometimes less but that is pretty average over 50+ years on the road.

And yes I do understand your dilemma,we do have some places like that here,tho not so much anymore. Oh BTW as BRP recommends premium,that is what mine gets too. 28.5 mpg over 22k+ and regular does drop it.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Not sure of the elevation where you are but as you go higher you can drop the fuel rating accordingly. Not necessary to run high octane at high elevations.
Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The responses to this thread, and the poll responses, have been great. Keep it up! I may ask Lamont to close the poll early in a few days if it looks like interest is waning and before this topic gets stale!

[canamjhb]

I always figure an ave speed of 50mph,thus 3hrs=150 miles. Yes sometimes I get more sometimes less but that is pretty average over 50+ years on the road.

I totally agree. Been doing long distance touring for over 35 years and plan for 50 miles for each hour on the road. Of course there are exceptions but factoring in fuel, rest, and meal stops, 50 is a good figure. On the spyder I routinely obtain 35-40 MPG unless I spend a lot of time in stop and go city or slow mountain twisties roads. But all that is unimportant. Just need to keep riding to keep a smile going....

[RinconRyder]

Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

Humidity might be the culprit rather than elevation. Humidity displaces oxygen molecules. We used to have to adjust the nitro ratio in our fuelie for the humidity. I wasn't the fuel guy so don't know all the specifics but do remember that. For elevation the guys used to adjust the blower (more blower for more elevation).

[edmarble]

Interestingly, not only does elevation make a difference in gas octane needed it also affects mileage. My best MPG with my 2013 RT over a short time span was over the Rocky Mountains at 6000 to 10000 feet elevation. The worst was in Louisiana at close to sea level!

Higher elevation, thinner air, less drag = better gas mileage. Have noticed this over the years on two and three wheels. When I get back from a long trip in the Rockies to the cold, humid, sea level air in Washington, it feels like I’m constantly riding into a headwind.

[Tango]

I don't know how you all do it. 150 miles is about 3 hrs and that is as much as the "other" tank can hold before it has to be emptied. As long as I can do 150 miles between fill ups (and empties) I am happy.

That's how we figure things out. Plan for 50 mph, and get off the bike for a stretch. We routinely get 40mpg or better. A high of 45 on back roads. Interstate blasting is another story. Very happy with the F3. :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

[Bob Denman]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for the fuel type to use: why try and argue with them? :dontknow:

[Wildrice]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for the fuel type to use: why try and argue with them? :dontknow:

I agree--the extra cost per gallon over a period of time amounts to less than one (1) farkle.
Darrell

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I suppose that since BRP gives a specific recommendation for .... why try and argue with them? :dontknow:


I agree--

We should only use Kenda tires, right? :lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :thumbup: And of course, only BRP oil!! :ohyea: At least they don't tell us whose air we need to use in the tires! :roflblack:

[wd8ajj]

Years ago when I worked in the Labs at Standard Oil Co. One of our tests were to measure the octane rating between regular and premium. As far as the "gas" was concerned, all was the same. The difference was all the additives that were added to boost octane levels and more cleaners. But the gas no matter what level all started as the same. Only the additives and amounts made the difference. Racing fuels are whole another story and blended different from standard gas.

[Easy Rider]

We should only use Kenda tires, right? :lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :thumbup: And of course, only BRP oil!! :ohyea:

No of course not.
I don't believe that you will find those things as a "requirement" anywhere; probably not even a recommendation.
Specifying what brand of routine maintenance "parts" to use is actually illegal in the US, in general.

[Bob Denman]

We should only use Kenda tires, right? :lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :thumbup: And of course, only BRP oil!! :ohyea: At least they don't tell us whose air we need to use in the tires! :roflblack:
I would argue that the engineers just said to use fuel with a particular octane level: they didn't say which brand to use.

[Neil Rupp]

Detonation or pre ignition is a concern for me on my 2014 Rt 1330. I just returned from a 3500 mile trip, Ohio to Key West and back, mileage ranged from 34 to 41 MPG using Premium. Why take a chance? Neil

[Bob Denman]

You don't need to worry about detonation. The computer has plenty of ways to deal with it... :thumbup:

[Easy Rider]

You don't need to worry about detonation. The computer has plenty of ways to deal with it... :thumbup:

No it does not.

There is only ONE way and that is to retard the timing to prevent "spark knock".

Unless it has computer controlled individual valve timing, there is NOTHING the control systems can do to prevent "pre-ignition" ..........that happens before the spake hits. That is, I presume, why they recommend higher octane fuel.

[RinconRyder]

No it does not.

There is only ONE way and that is to retard the timing to prevent "spark knock".

Unless it has computer controlled individual valve timing, there is NOTHING the control systems can do to prevent "pre-ignition" ..........that happens before the spake hits. That is, I presume, why they recommend higher octane fuel.

I concur. Valve timing is used to obtain better fuel mileage and/or increased power output and does not affect denotation.

Denotation is cured by slowing the fuel burn (so it doesn't explode which is the sound you hear) and/or reducing the compression ratio.

[johnsimion]

Hello, I'm new to Spyder but this thread raised questions in my mind. My Spyder is a new 2017 and my dealer outright told me to use Premium. According to my manual, "Use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON/2) octane rating of 91, or a RON octane rating of 95." It goes on and says, "NOTICE. Never experiment with other fuels. Engine or fuel system damage may occur with the use of an inadequate fuel." It also notifies me not to use E85.

Did the fuel requirements change over the years? In my area, premium unleaded is 91 octane. Given the manual's warnings, why would I even try regular? Sure, it's **probably** okay but why would I take chances? Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?

[ruralgirl]

I'm sure from a sales point of view, BRP would love to be able to boast that the Spyder can run on regular, but using fast burning gas in a high compression ration engine is flirting with engine knock as its flame-front across the cylinder creates an explosion point which can ultimately ruin your engine in multiple ways. The Spyder was designed for premium gas, so that's what I always use.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Given the manual's warnings, why would I even try regular? Sure, it's **probably** okay but why would I take chances? Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?
Valid question, and you are in the majority for sure. On the other side are a number of owners who vigorously argue that real world experience has shown that regular works just fine with many thousands of miles on their machines. As far as I know no one has dismantled two different Spyder engines, both with like maybe 100,000 miles on them, one having run regular the whole time, and the other premium. Until someone does that and provides photos of what the engines look like on the inside the argument one way or the other has to be based on what the builders say to do.

There are many here who through the years have argued why try to save a few pennies by using regular when premium gives added gas mileage that offsets the additional cost. The other side of the argument is that since it appears regular works just fine why not save money on gas? For some folks just because they have a Spyder doesn't mean their wallets are flush with cash.

And then there have been many discussions about MPG and what impacts it. I posted the graphs and started this thread to show the fallacy of arguing MPG. It's just too variable to provide any reliable and meaningful information about different fuels, road conditions, towing situations, and on and on!

In the end do what fits inside your comfort zone and don't let anyone dissuade you.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I also had one long trip pulling a trailer. Can you tell when it was?
Correction! I actually had two long trips and one short trip pulling a trailer.

[Easy Rider]

Why would I risk my warranty to save a few cents?

Given the survey results, it seems that most Spyder owners agree with you.

BUT.....among other things some people seem to take some kind of perverse pride in "outsmarting" the Engineers.

In my opinion, it is their property and they can do whatever they want to with it BUT they should not be encouraging others to take a risk that they may not fully understand.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Just bringing this to top for those who may have missed it earlier. Poll closes the 10th. Look at the graphs and see if you can tell when I used regular and when I used premium, if in fact I have used both!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

CORRECTION: Poll closes tomorrow, 11/09, at 4:01 PM.

[bscrive]

I have always used regular gas without any issues on all our bikes.

The way I look at it is that regular gas is probably replenished faster that all the other types of grades, so you get fresher fuel each time you fill up. The other grades may sit in the gas station's tanks longer possibly collecting water.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This has been an interesting thread, for me anyway! As I've mentioned before I wanted to show just how variable MPG is. If you want to get a somewhat accurate reading of your Spyder's MPG over the long term you need to look at the all miles over the all gallons numbers. Any short period isn't going to be meaningful at all, IMO. The all miles average smooths out the variation due to driving conditions and habits.

I goofed on the graph for All Miles Average MPG. I used a wrong number for the beginning of the graph. I should have looked at it closer right from the start since it didn't quite make sense that the early overall MPG was so low. I'm surprised no one asked about it. Here's a corrected graph. The impact of the mistake is very little from about 9000 miles on. Since tank to tank MPG varies widely the MPG for the first few hundred miles also varied widely. That's why the graph starts at about 700 miles. After about 9000 miles the MPG stays quite constant.

155476

Take a look at these graphs. They show my MPG while pulling my tent-on-a-trailer on two long trips in 2016 and one ~1000 mile trip in 2017. As you can see the 2017 MPG doesn't vary as much as the 2016. That's for two reasons. First there are fewer fill ups represented, and second, the 2017 trip was all 2 lane highways, much at speeds less than 50 mph.

155480

155479

If you look at the 4 Fill MPG graph the higher MPGs mostly were when I was on two lane roads riding about 60 mph and below. The low MPG are mostly Interstate roads at 70 mph and above. The really low numbers were when I was bucking strong head winds. This is the case whether or not I was pulling my trailer.

Now, before I tell you which poll option best matches my fuel selection for the two riding seasons take another look at the 4 Fill MPG graph.

155481

What can you tell about when I used regular and when I used premium? 68 percent of you selected the option of premium for both seasons.

Go to the next post for the answer!!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

For me, this has been a real hoot!!

Many of you aren't going to want to believe this, BUT......

The poll option that most closely matches my fuel selection over the 2016 and 2017 riding seasons is ---------

The option that got ZERO VOTES!!

That's right. I ran premium all the time (unless it wasn't available which was very seldom) until about 15,000 miles when I switched to regular on my trip to Homecoming. My nephew who went with me to Homecoming said he runs regular all the time in his 2010 RT and has experienced no problems, so I decided to see what the result would be for me. Since I haven't had any reason to tear down the engine, and have no plans to do so, I cannot say what the effect has been inside the engine. But I will unequivocally say premium does not give better gas mileage!

I hope all of you have enjoyed this exercise!

[JIM W]

The only reason I use premium is because it's the only fuel I can get without ethanol!
that crap destroys seals.

[Easy Rider]

The only reason I use premium is because it's the only fuel I can get without ethanol!
that crap destroys seals.

No it does not. Not in an engine that was designed for it, that is.
So that means any engine made in the past 35 years or so.

Note: cheap Chinese two-cycle engines are another story.

[Wildrice]

No it does not. Not in an engine that was designed for it, that is.
So that means any engine made in the past 35 years or so.

Note: cheap Chinese two-cycle engines are another story.

Don't use ethanol in your lawn mower or other small engines that use a spring return on a rubber type diaphragm. Large engines with a fuel pump can usually handle it but ethanol with distort the small engine rubber diaphragm even on current yr small engines. I know it has nothing to do with Spyders but ethanol will need a carb rebuild after a few months--I'm speaking from experience. Maybe those engines were built in China:bowdown::clap:Briggs & Stratton.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Don't use ethanol in your lawn mower or other small engines that use a spring return on a rubber type diaphragm. Large engines with a fuel pump can usually handle it but ethanol with distort the small engine rubber diaphragm even on current yr small engines. I know it has nothing to do with Spyders but ethanol will need a carb rebuild after a few months--I'm speaking from experience. Maybe those engines were built in China:bowdown::clap:Briggs & Stratton.
B & S doesn't agree with you. https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/support/faqs/browse/fuel-recommendations.html


Gasoline with up to 10% ethanol (gasohol) or up to 15% MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), is acceptable. Some fuel stations are now selling gasoline with up to 15% ethanol. This E15 product is not recommended or approved for use in small engines.

BTW, B & S engines are made in USA, believe it or not. At least that's what they say on their web site! Well at least 90% + are US made from what I find. They have 10 plants in foreign countries, I think mostly making engines using brand names other than B & S.

[Easy Rider]

Maybe those engines were built in China:bowdown::clap:Briggs & Stratton.

Having an "American" company name on it does not say anything about where it was built.....so you might be right.

Just for the record, I have been using regular E10 in all of my small engines ever since it came out.
That includes probably 30 different ones over more than 30 years.
Never had ANY problems with anything but grass trimmers and chain saws. It's hard to find those things that are not cheaply made.

For my other things.......lawn mowers mostly, I don't buy cheap stuff and kind of got away from B&S a LONG time ago.
With Kohler or Kawasaki engines, I've had ZERO trouble, with just a tiny bit of good fuel management practices.

[Wildrice]

[QUOTE=IdahoMtnSpyder;1315955]B & S doesn't agree with you. https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/support/faqs/browse/fuel-recommendations.html


I had a 15 yr old Craftsman riding mower. The neighbor would borrow it on occassion & used the 10% ethanol. Two (2) times after she used it approx 2-3 months later--the vacuum operated fuel pump in the carb--the rubber type material distorted. But that was from 15 yrs ago on a Briggs & Stratton Engine. The diaphragm material must have upgraded on newer models. Replaced it last yr with a Cub Cadet 46" Kohler 7000 Series twin cyl. I agree on the B & S but the engine was still running fine--the deck was the maintenance issue. I bought the Cub Cadet because the deck was one (1) gauge thicker than other mfgs. Plus the mulching was best in the reviews.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/manufacturer_fuel_recommendations_ethanol_e10.html

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_problems_damage.html

Darrell

[Wildrice]

Very interesting comparison on run between Calif to Las Vegas


https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html?utm_medium=sem&utm_source=google&utm_account=main_search&utm_campaign=dsa_tier_1&utm_adgroup=catch-all&utm_term=dsa_catch-all&utm_content=utm_migration&utm_device=c&utm_matchtype=b&utm_targetid=aud-285543262462:dsa-19959388920&utm_locinterest=&utm_locphysical=9014914&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_5_QBRC9ARIsADVww15mC02dCIS2UdlUQCGT CcdJjmh84QOB-6ETcOSqtDQXBuVDipzGfnQaAii_EALw_wcB

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Very interesting comparison on run between Calif to Las Vegas


https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html?utm_medium=sem&utm_source=google&utm_account=main_search&utm_campaign=dsa_tier_1&utm_adgroup=catch-all&utm_term=dsa_catch-all&utm_content=utm_migration&utm_device=c&utm_matchtype=b&utm_targetid=aud-285543262462:dsa-19959388920&utm_locinterest=&utm_locphysical=9014914&gclid=Cj0KCQiA_5_QBRC9ARIsADVww15mC02dCIS2UdlUQCGT CcdJjmh84QOB-6ETcOSqtDQXBuVDipzGfnQaAii_EALw_wcB
First, based on my experience with my Spyder MPG their test was far too short to really be meaningful.

It's not specifically mentioned in the article but it sounds like they were comparing non-ethanol regular with E15. For that type of comparison to have any real meaning today you'd need to have comparisons of E10 vs E15 and each E version against non-ethanol. Given the lower energy output and lower MPG of E10, when compared to non-E I'm doubtful of any cost savings with non-E. Every pump of non-E regular I've seen is higher priced than premium.

The move to E gas was prompted in large part to high levels of imported oil, the fact that corn is home grown, and its ability to boost octane number and help with emission control. One of the drives to E15 is to get more power via compression boost. The original octane booster, tetraethyl lead, is an environmental poison. I read years ago that traces of lead have been found on high mountain top water sources. The only place it could have come from was vapor from gasoline burned in vehicles. The replacement for ethyl was MTBE, but it too is an environmental pollutant when gasoline containing it leaks into the ground, not an uncommon problem.

As an octane booster and oxygenator, and having a lower pollution factor, ethanol looks to be the best choice. From the standpoint of energy output, not including the argument it takes more energy to produce it than it produces, and the impact on food supply, it is a poor choice. As in all things of life, there are no easy answers! :banghead:

[UtahPete]

As an octane booster and oxygenator, and having a lower pollution factor, ethanol looks to be the best choice. From the standpoint of energy output, not including the argument it takes more energy to produce it than it produces, and the impact on food supply, it is a poor choice.

I didn't know that. Thanks.

[Wildrice]

[QUOTE=IdahoMtnSpyder;1316057]First, based on my experience with my Spyder MPG their test was far too short to really be meaningful.

667 mile r/t on the same hwy was far too short to compare mileage??? Sounded perfect to me.

I spent a week with friends in McCall Idaho on lake Payette --it was beautiful. Also snow skied Sun Valley for a week--very nice also. I'd prefer the mountain areas to live but my wife's children live local in Ohio. I've skied most of major Rocky Mountain resorts--2 decades ago:clap:.
Darrell

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm wondering what you did to control a variable not seen mentioned here (at least in my quick browse through). I have only owned our 2014 RT for a short time but have noticed it is extremely difficult to get it all the way full. I can see where if a person is very patient and intent on getting the tank 100% full they can do so. On the other hand, those who are not so patient will cut short with trickling gas in so they can get on the road more quickly. It is also obvious that the angle the Spyder is sitting will affect how easily it is to fill to the top. The ability of each pump to trickle or not would be a factor as well. So, all that begs the question, in your testing, how did you make sure the tank was filled to exactly the same level every time? That variable of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon can make a huge difference in mileage calculations on a 7 gallon tank.
:yikes:, Wrong ...it is IMPOSSIBLE to get the liquid amount BRP states the size of you tank holds ......UNLESS you remove the Tank and fill it with the tank at an angle so the opening is Gravitationally level .....BRP's given amount of 6.9 gal. is the Mathematical volume of the tank size ..... Not the actual amount of liquid that can be put in ( when mounted on the Spyder ) ............. A practical example would be , take a glass or cup that can hold EXACTLY 12oz. ,.... now tilt the glass 20 degree's and fill it to the very edge before it spills .....now set the glass up-right, notice that IT isn't full to the top... the same applies to your Spyder ................Mike :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

We should only use Kenda tires, right? :lecturef_smilie: :roflblack: :thumbup: And of course, only BRP oil!! :ohyea: At least they don't tell us whose air we need to use in the tires! :roflblack:
:yikes:.... On page 137 of my Owner's Manual ...it states in BOLD - RED - print " only use BRP dealer certified AIR " when refilling the KENDA tires "....................... :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ...............Mike :thumbup: