Leaning 3 Wheeler

[Lin]

I just came across this post on Kneeslider. I will not be trading my Spyder, but I do love to see other companies venturing into the area of reverse trikes. (If it goes into production)

https://thekneeslider.com/yamaha-niken-means-leaning-3-wheelers-may-just-hit-the-big-time/

[Bob Denman]

These bikes are variations on their "Tesseract" Quad from about 10 years ago... :thumbup:
It's nice to see that they're making some progress!

[cmbspyderrss]

Nice. I like that a lot. Wonder what is under the fairing/how the forks are connected. Also wonder if the suspension will be squishy like is reported on the FZ/MT09. Look forward to more and a price point.

[daveinva]

Nice. I like that a lot. Wonder what is under the fairing/how the forks are connected. Also wonder if the suspension will be squishy like is reported on the FZ/MT09. Look forward to more and a price point.

Suspension got fixed on the FZ in 2017, they adopted what they put on the XSR900, works just fine now.

That said, the suspension for this won't be anything like the FZ/MT/XSR, for the obvious reasons.

Personally: this is what BRP should have put out a couple of years ago instead of only doubling-down on the static trike design. I loved my Spyder, I'd love another Spyder someday, but it's undeniable that a leaning reverse trike from a big OEM would appeal to a wider audience of pre-existing riders than a trike that doesn't lean. Glad the tech's finally caught up.

[Bob Denman]

Suspension got fixed on the FZ in 2017, they adopted what they put on the XSR900, works just fine now.

That said, the suspension for this won't be anything like the FZ/MT/XSR, for the obvious reasons.

Personally: this is what BRP should have put out a couple of years ago instead of only doubling-down on the static trike design. I loved my Spyder, I'd love another Spyder someday, but it's undeniable that a leaning reverse trike from a big OEM would appeal to a wider audience of pre-existing riders than a trike that doesn't lean. Glad the tech's finally caught up.
Why not combine the bulkiness of a Trike, and the "Tipoverabilty" of a two-wheeler? :roflblack:

[Chupaca]

That is so tight it makes you wonder...🤔 why bother..ride the two wheeler...:ohyea:

[ARtraveler]

Interesting to re-visit. For now, I am going to stick with what I have. :yes:

[daveinva]

Why not combine the bulkiness of a Trike, and the "Tipoverabilty" of a two-wheeler? :roflblack:

Why not combine the maneuverability of a two-wheeler, with the corner stability of a trike? This is a fun game, Bob! :roflblack:

I have no doubt that the Spyder will continue to have its success. But while I was a happy owner of a Spyder for a very long time, I'm not going to pretend that there weren't a LOT of people out there (read forums other than SL, or visit any non-Spyder rally) who took one look at the Spyder-- or one demo ride on the Spyder-- and were turned off simply because they didn't want to give up the sensation of two wheels in exchange for three.

IME, while BRP desperately wants to sell Spyders to the young and beautiful new rider crowd (look at any of their ads), the largest Spyder demographic remains people who for age/medical reasons would either buy another trike, or give up riding altogether. Given the success of the Piaggio MP3 (not in America, but scooters aren't big here-- you can't walk a block in Europe without running into an MP3), there's obviously a market for leaning trikes. This Yamaha and others like it (e.g. Honda Neowing concept) offers a choice to those who would prefer most of the advantages of a Spyder with the fewest compromises of one. It doesn't hurt that something like this doesn't come with the image of the retired rally-hopping Spyder owner with a bum knee (a stereotype to be sure, but one that's prevalent out in the real world, fairly or not).

Anyway... *if* Yamaha doesn't just sell this overseas but brings it to North America, we'll have an interesting experiment in the marketplace to see how popular something like this is. I guarantee that BRP is watching intently to see if it makes business sense to finally offer a leaning Spyder in their lineup.

P.S. All things aside, I just love that Yammy put their triple into this thing... that engine is the best thing about my XSR, it's such a wonderful mill.

[rudym]

Why not combine the maneuverability of a two-wheeler, with the corner stability of a trike? This is a fun game, Bob! :roflblack:

I have no doubt that the Spyder will continue to have its success. But while I was a happy owner of a Spyder for a very long time, I'm not going to pretend that there weren't a LOT of people out there (read forums other than SL, or visit any non-Spyder rally) who took one look at the Spyder-- or one demo ride on the Spyder-- and were turned off simply because they didn't want to give up the sensation of two wheels in exchange for three.

IME, while BRP desperately wants to sell Spyders to the young and beautiful new rider crowd (look at any of their ads), the largest Spyder demographic remains people who for age/medical reasons would either buy another trike, or give up riding altogether. Given the success of the Piaggio MP3 (not in America, but scooters aren't big here-- you can't walk a block in Europe without running into an MP3), there's obviously a market for leaning trikes. This Yamaha and others like it (e.g. Honda Neowing concept) offers a choice to those who would prefer most of the advantages of a Spyder with the fewest compromises of one. It doesn't hurt that something like this doesn't come with the image of the retired rally-hopping Spyder owner with a bum knee (a stereotype to be sure, but one that's prevalent out in the real world, fairly or not).

Anyway... *if* Yamaha doesn't just sell this overseas but brings it to North America, we'll have an interesting experiment in the marketplace to see how popular something like this is. I guarantee that BRP is watching intently to see if it makes business sense to finally offer a leaning Spyder in their lineup.

P.S. All things aside, I just love that Yammy put their triple into this thing... that engine is the best thing about my XSR, it's such a wonderful mill.
http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/
The real father of the invention perse

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

wow:clap:

[Bob Denman]

Why not combine the maneuverability of a two-wheeler, with the corner stability of a trike? This is a fun game, Bob! :roflblack:
P.S. All things aside, I just love that Yammy put their triple into this thing... that engine is the best thing about my XSR, it's such a wonderful mill.
Glad to hear that you dig that triple! :2thumbs:
:lecturef_smilie: But a tilting trike can be tipped too far... :yikes:

[ofdave]

the seating position on this (and most sport bikes) puts the rider in a box behind first base while the passenger sits in a bleacher seat.
I bet they sell quite a few. It is although, aimed at a market very different from the Spyder.

[Rob Rodriguez]

In my opinion a bike like this is exactly what BRP is currently lacking. A sport riding position model with power and performance. I say this without riding the Yammi or the Honda Neowing but if BRP isn't going to provide this then I'm going somewhere else that will.

[bscrive]

With Yamaha reliability, this maybe a good contender when the F3 gets out of warranty. Probably, almost half the price as well. A better seat will be in order.

[BitSlayer]

:lecturef_smilie: But a tilting trike can be tipped too far... :yikes:

I have to say, that was my first thought as well.....:dontknow:

[ARtraveler]

Glad to hear that you dig that triple! :2thumbs:
:lecturef_smilie: But a tilting trike can be tipped too far... :yikes:

:agree: I saw an upended Piaggio on main street in Eagle River a couple years back. It was not pretty. :thumbup:

[SteveLaoyster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERpQ6_NQGPM

Just saw the specs & it's an inline 3 cylinder like the 1330. Full details being released on Nov. 6th.

[ofdave]

two threads on the same topic
be sure to post in both
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?109063-YAMAHA-3

[larryd]

COMPETITION is a good thing...Looks like a blast to ride...Hopefully this adventure will be the start for many others to follow...larryd

[dndfindley]

Why not combine the bulkiness of a Trike, and the "Tipoverabilty" of a two-wheeler? :roflblack:
Why do you say that? Is it because you would tip over on a 2 wheel machine? Is that why you ride a Spyder? Nothing wrong with that but it is no reason to put down a more reliable machine that requires more from the rider. David

[dndfindley]

Why not combine the maneuverability of a two-wheeler, with the corner stability of a trike? This is a fun game, Bob! :roflblack:

I have no doubt that the Spyder will continue to have its success. But while I was a happy owner of a Spyder for a very long time, I'm not going to pretend that there weren't a LOT of people out there (read forums other than SL, or visit any non-Spyder rally) who took one look at the Spyder-- or one demo ride on the Spyder-- and were turned off simply because they didn't want to give up the sensation of two wheels in exchange for three.

IME, while BRP desperately wants to sell Spyders to the young and beautiful new rider crowd (look at any of their ads), the largest Spyder demographic remains people who for age/medical reasons would either buy another trike, or give up riding altogether. Given the success of the Piaggio MP3 (not in America, but scooters aren't big here-- you can't walk a block in Europe without running into an MP3), there's obviously a market for leaning trikes. This Yamaha and others like it (e.g. Honda Neowing concept) offers a choice to those who would prefer most of the advantages of a Spyder with the fewest compromises of one. It doesn't hurt that something like this doesn't come with the image of the retired rally-hopping Spyder owner with a bum knee (a stereotype to be sure, but one that's prevalent out in the real world, fairly or not).

Anyway... *if* Yamaha doesn't just sell this overseas but brings it to North America, we'll have an interesting experiment in the marketplace to see how popular something like this is. I guarantee that BRP is watching intently to see if it makes business sense to finally offer a leaning Spyder in their lineup.

P.S. All things aside, I just love that Yammy put their triple into this thing... that engine is the best thing about my XSR, it's such a wonderful mill.

You nailed it - man oh man did you nail it!

[dndfindley]

In my opinion a bike like this is exactly what BRP is currently lacking. A sport riding position model with power and performance. I say this without riding the Yammi or the Honda Neowing but if BRP isn't going to provide this then I'm going somewhere else that will.

Bingo! BRP did away with the only sporty machine in their line up - the RS. That and the very questionable reliability of the Spyder is what caused me to trade my RT for a Yamaha FJ-09.

[Bob Denman]

BRP has the technology for a leaner already on the books, and ready for their use. They even have "computer-controlled leaning", that is in the system software...
Let your computer lean your bike for you? :shocked:
My guess is that they patented it in order to lock out the competition. nojoke

[cmbspyderrss]

I just want to see a review and know how much $$. I saw the Honda at 0.46 and i like that one too.


https://youtu.be/QGwv7azZhSs

[SXSMachine]

:lecturef_smilie: But a tilting trike can be tipped too far... :yikes:

So can a planar trike and two wheeler yet both these are on the road, they arent infallible, stupid kills most every time...

[leonml]

Anyone with a clue knows that a leaning trike could be made to handle better then a sport bike and be more stable upright and braking. With technology being as advanced as it is. Modem leaning trike could be made stiffer while upright and at a stop stand by itself, and when cornering adjust to leaning into the corners. Some people are just simple minded and thick headed dolts.
I bet a good percentage of spyder owners, when first seeing the spyder when it was introduced probably shat all over it too.

[leonml]

Too bad Harley is stuck and doesn't take chances.

Here's something a bit different from the Motor Company, it's a patent application from Harley Davidson for a leaning trike. It's looks like a cross between the*Can-Am Spyder*and the*Brudeli 625*but it is distinctively Harley with the big twin power plant in there. Whether they are thinking of producing this or something similar, they probably wanted to get the paperwork in to make sure they were covered. Filed on either September 27, 2006 or April 5, 2007, I can't figure out which dates apply, reading patent paperwork can be a bit confusing.

From the application:

The present invention relates to a suspension system for a three-wheeled vehicle. The suspension system permits the vehicle to lean while cornering, much like a motorcycle. This is accomplished via hydraulic actuators that force the bike into a leaning position while turning, and back to an upright position while tracking a straight line. A transverse beam is coupled to the hydraulic actuators and to spring dampers to allow the suspension to operate independently, even while the vehicle is cornering.

[SXSMachine]

Too bad Harley is stuck and doesn't take chances.

Here's something a bit different from the Motor Company, it's a patent application from Harley Davidson for a leaning trike. It's looks like a cross between the*Can-Am Spyder*and the*Brudeli 625*but it is distinctively Harley with the big twin power plant in there. Whether they are thinking of producing this or something similar, they probably wanted to get the paperwork in to make sure they were covered. Filed on either September 27, 2006 or April 5, 2007, I can't figure out which dates apply, reading patent paperwork can be a bit confusing.

From the application:

The present invention relates to a suspension system for a three-wheeled vehicle. The suspension system permits the vehicle to lean while cornering, much like a motorcycle. This is accomplished via hydraulic actuators that force the bike into a leaning position while turning, and back to an upright position while tracking a straight line. A transverse beam is coupled to the hydraulic actuators and to spring dampers to allow the suspension to operate independently, even while the vehicle is cornering.


Harley made it but couldnt make the electronics package work is the reason I have heard. I dont think a trike will ever truly reach the ultimate lean angle on a two wheeler you just cannot achieve the offsets mechanically.


155501

But a leaning trike will make everyone but a boy racer a better rider with more control and have a better experience if they are open to that. I mean the kind of riding that would beat a trike properly is only performed on a track.

The one thing we do have now that Harley didnt have is the chance to use far superior electronics even in just a 10 year period, the complete system for a 3 wheeler could be likely run off just a Raspberry Pi or Arduino PC Im writing a Business Concept document for an electronic box and its outputs now across a range of vehicles.

[SXSMachine]

I have a friend that has worked on Trikes for many years and he says he will get a look at the Yamaha net week hopefully, If Ive got some feedback I'll pass it on, but also interestingly he said he may buy one just to look at designing and selling aftermarket improvements. So already there is moves in the industry to make whatever it is better if thats possible.

See what turns up to report. :thumbup:

[Slowpoke387]

I just want to see a review and know how much $$. I saw the Honda at 0.46 and i like that one too.


https://youtu.be/QGwv7azZhSs
if the Honda reverse trike becomes reality we will be first in line. I will be watching for this with baited breath...

[ARtraveler]

Wow! The Honda reverse trike is VERY NICE looking. And--it's a real Honda. Now if they would get them over here for sale?

I am guessing that a lot of people would jump on that one. :yes::yes:

Did you catch the windshield wiper on the GW? That would be a great feature if they figure out how to not scratch the plastic.

:bbq::bbq::bbq:

[Rogue Hawk]

I like the idea, but it's butt ugly...like fugly

[SXSMachine]

https://youtu.be/_XYb9F_DAD0

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I dont think a trike will ever truly reach the ultimate lean angle on a two wheeler you just cannot achieve the offsets mechanically.
The Tilting Motor Works reverse trike conversion for the Goldwing will lean as far as the two wheeler will. Pegs, engine guard, etc., are what limit the lean.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Did you catch the windshield wiper on the GW? That would be a great feature if they figure out how to not scratch the plastic.
Wipers are required in Japan.

[ofdave]

.

Did you catch the windshield wiper on the GW? That would be a great feature if they figure out how to not scratch the plastic.

:bbq::bbq::bbq:


better yet, figure out how to keep water off the inside of the windshield.
A second wiper?

[SXSMachine]

The Tilting Motor Works reverse trike conversion for the Goldwing will lean as far as the two wheeler will. Pegs, engine guard, etc., are what limit the lean.

Its also the system you put on it that can limit the lean and with the Goldwing Im not sure anyone really tries to go to 45 let alone 60 degree lean angles and a video on their facebook page seems to confirm that ride example didnt exceed 45deg but I doubt that people are doing that on two wheels much at all either.

Two things bother me about the TMW.

One is subjectively, the looks, Its not for me. I'd have a product design engineer go over it and make it like the Neowing rather than a steam locomotive.

The second more importantly. There was a lot of commentary in the Jay Leno's garage you tube that has just been deleted that went through the mechanical attributes of the bike suspension design and telling people who didnt have an idea about the mechanical forces and suspension dynamics of the bike and instead of addressing those comments they have just been deleted without people having the opportunity to grow from that, They thought that people wouldnt revisit the old thread and read what was going on but they are still trying to put Jay Leno's review out there as promotional material and now they have fresh negative comments on it just not as educated and not how to turn it round. :banghead:

[ofdave]

The Tilting Motor Works reverse trike conversion for the Goldwing will lean as far as the two wheeler will. Pegs, engine guard, etc., are what limit the lean.


do you know where we could see pics of that?
it'd be great wallpaper

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Its also the system you put on it that can limit the lean and with the Goldwing Im not sure anyone really tries to go to 45 let alone 60 degree lean angles and a video on their facebook page seems to confirm that ride example didnt exceed 45deg but I doubt that people are doing that on two wheels much at all either.

Two things bother me about the TMW.

One is subjectively, the looks, Its not for me. I'd have a product design engineer go over it and make it like the Neowing rather than a steam locomotive.

The second more importantly. There was a lot of commentary in the Jay Leno's garage you tube that has just been deleted that went through the mechanical attributes of the bike suspension design and telling people who didnt have an idea about the mechanical forces and suspension dynamics of the bike and instead of addressing those comments they have just been deleted without people having the opportunity to grow from that, They thought that people wouldnt revisit the old thread and read what was going on but they are still trying to put Jay Leno's review out there as promotional material and now they have fresh negative comments on it just not as educated and not how to turn it round. :banghead:
I didn't see the comments on Jay Leno Garage that you're referring to, but I'm wondering if they got too much into design details and choices that Bob Mighell wants to keep proprietary.

I listened to him talk about his TMW conversion at Wing Ding last fall. He had a GL1800 and F6B both there with the conversions. He specifically mentioned that he wanted to let the bike tilt as much with the conversion as without it. His discussion about the design process implied there was not much analytical engineering involved. It was mostly build, test, revamp, test, revamp again, and test, until it handled the way he wanted it to.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

do you know where we could see pics of that?
it'd be great wallpaper
Start here: www.tiltingmotorworks.com. Otherwise you'll just have to Google for some.

[ofdave]

Start here: www.tiltingmotorworks.com (http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com). Otherwise you'll just have to Google for some.


their emphasis seems to be on Harley
saw one Wing video but no peg scraping.
the tilt aspect is interesting, lean but not countersteer?
Not in my future because it's not in my wallet

anyone here actually ride one? tell us about it

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

their emphasis seems to be on Harley
saw one Wing video but no peg scraping.
the tilt aspect is interesting, lean but not countersteer?
Not in my future because it's not in my wallet

anyone here actually ride one? tell us about it
He claimed you still have counter steer, but not double that a single wheel, IIRC.

It's not so much his emphasis being on HD, but that's who most of the buyers are. He did have the HD conversion in production first. He was working on the 'wing version in 2012 when I first started looking at going with 3 wheels. When I got serious in late summer 2013 he still didn't have it ready for prime time so I went with the Spyder. If it had been available in 2013 I may, or may not, have gone that route. But I'm not going to change now. His conversion is about the same cost as a conventional trike conversion.

In a phone conversation I had with Bob in 2013 he said something about meeting with California Side Car. I got the impression he was fishing for investor support or a partnership. I guess nothing ever came of that as CSC has their own non-leaning RT conversion now.

[gnorthern]

FYI, you can sign up for a test ride. https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport-touring/pages/ride-the-revolution I did more out of curiosity. I would be in so much trouble with my wife if I bought one after buying a new Spyder.

[Little Blue]

YES:yes::yes::yes::yes: VERY INTERESTING :clap::clap::clap::clap: RIDE SPYDER RIDE, Little Blue:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My local Spyder dealer is also listed as a Yamaha dealer. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the two competing products! I just might take a test ride the next time I have my Spyder in there this summer.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I just signed up. I'm itching to buy a new bike but Can am is leaving us RSS riders on an island so this might be the product to move on to?