6-Speed Manual Marginalized in 2018 lineup

[Tanshanomi]

Looking at the 2018 Spyder web page, it appears that the MT is only available on the F3-S and the Base RT. The other models list only the push-button transmission. As someone who prefers a manual clutch, I'm disappointed to see this. However, I understand that the take rate on the MT is pretty low, so it kind of makes sense from a production/distribution standpoint.

[RinconRyder]

That's also the same with regard to passenger vehicles, even light trucks.

I have always preferred a stick shift too but a recent round trip from Phoenix to Coeur d'Alene, ID convinced me that an automatic can be a real asset in the mountains (when constant shifting is going on) or in heavy rush hour traffic.

This just ain't the 1950's any more.

[Chupaca]

They are killing all the fun out of the ryde...:banghead::banghead: must be a large number of upright, sunday driving tour types and not enough speed demons....:roflblack: It is looking more and more like the RS and I are going down together...:spyder:

[Bob Denman]

They're going to sell what the market will buy. :thumbup:
My guess, is that they've got lots of data that proves that the "ESSIE" is a winner! :yes:

[ARtraveler]

An unfortunate situation for lovers of MT. I still like them. After 5 years of riding strictly automatics, I purchased a new Vulcan. Never had a fear about that first shift when I drove it off from the dealer.

I guess that once we learn it, it is in our memory forever. I am also one of the few that "likes" a manual transmission.

As far as :spyder2:'s go, My first (2008 SM5) was a manual. All others have been SE's. It is no longer a gas saving thing--if you shift in the proper range, you will not notice much in mpg difference--same with ECO mode. "They" tell us, that they have made the transmissions "smarter" these days.

Another issue--we now see the MT on only the entry level models, and I am in agreement that they are probably on the way out. As a resale item--it is getting more difficult to sell a unit with MT. Time will tell. :bbq::bbq::bbq:

[ARtraveler]

They are killing all the fun out of the ryde...:banghead::banghead: must be a large number of upright, sunday driving tour types and not enough speed demons....:roflblack: It is looking more and more like the RS and I are going down together...:spyder:

Hang in there...Old shifters never die.... Someone will have to finish this one for me--make it good. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[RinconRyder]

I guess that once we learn it, it is in our memory forever. I am also one of the few that "likes" a manual transmission.

Which brings to mind a story......

Back in 1958 I bought my first motorcycle - a 1958 Jawa 125cc street bike. It had the foot brake on the left and shifter on the right (as did most European bikes of the day). So I learned brake left, shift right.

Even today, some 50-odd years later and a whole host of bikes that had the opposite arrangement, if I don't consciously think about which foot I am using to shift I will occasionally stomp on the brake to downshift.

[ARtraveler]

Which brings to mind a story......

Back in 1958 I bought my first motorcycle - a 1958 Jawa 125cc street bike. It had the foot brake on the left and shifter on the right (as did most European bikes of the day). So I learned brake left, shift right.

Even today, some 50-odd years later and a whole host of bikes that had the opposite arrangement, if I don't consciously think about which foot I am using to shift I will occasionally stomp on the brake to downshift.

Yes. It has to do with that first muscle memory that was learned. Never had a right hand shifter, but am guessing that would also give me fits.

Since I have both a 998 and a 1330, both Linda and I have to think about which one we are riding as one is 5 speed and one 6 speed, and both have shift points that are different. A mental "think" is necessary before going down the road for the both of us. Throw in the Vulcan manual, and I have to do three different "thinks" these days. :roflblack:

[Tanshanomi]

Which brings to mind a story......

Back in 1958 I bought my first motorcycle - a 1958 Jawa 125cc street bike. It had the foot brake on the left and shifter on the right (as did most European bikes of the day). So I learned brake left, shift right.

Even today, some 50-odd years later and a whole host of bikes that had the opposite arrangement, if I don't consciously think about which foot I am using to shift I will occasionally stomp on the brake to downshift.

I learned to ride on a Honda, then had a '79 Triumph for my second bike. Both shifted on the left. My third bike was a '71 BSA B50, which was right-side shift. I got to the point where I learned to brake and downshift correctly, but for some reason even after a year on that bike I was still instinctively trying to upshift by lifting up on the brake pedal. I think it was because I typically braked and downshifted at the same time, so I had to engage both sides of my brain, which wasn't normally the case with upshifting.

I once read that motorcycle racer Eddie Lawson could easily switch bikes between any combination of right- and left-shift, standard and GP (1 up-4 down) shift patterns and adapt to each instantly. I found that amazing, until I realized that sort of mental processing ability is how you get to be World Champion.

[Bob Denman]

Eddie Lawson was one of the best... :bowdown:

[Michaelscs]

Sad to see they dropped the manual trans from the F3-T. That was going to be my next Spyder.
I had my dealer search for a '16 or '17 F3-T SM6 and there isn't one in the 5 state region of Minnesota!

[BoilerAnimal]

Hang in there...Old shifters never die.... Someone will have to finish this one for me--make it good. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:



......they just grind away.



Hey, I tried!:rolleyes:

[ARtraveler]

......they just grind away.



Hey, I tried!:rolleyes:

And pretty good :bowdown::bowdown:

[robtdonna]

Count me as a manual guy. Thought I'd have enough to 'learn' going from two wheels to three so figured the manual was one thing I wouldn't have to learn. In reality I acclimated much quicker than many have said it normally takes, so guess I could have gone with the SE.
:yes:
On the other hand read a lot about the SE having shifting issues, clutch issues, stuck in gear issues and even emergency brake issues (which you HAVE to set with an SE, (so you are using it a lot more) you do not HAVE to on the SM (but should have you are on any kind of incline). So there is that.

Yet have to agree, resale value and resale pool of interested persons are both less.
:gaah:

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Which brings to mind a story......

......So I learned brake left, shift right.

Back in the late 1970's, I dated a guy that had broken his left hand and it was going to be a LONG recovery. He also did his own custom work on his bikes and selected a Suzuki from the stable to modify for his needs. Moved the clutch to the right hand .... yes, and kept the brake there too. This is the bike on which I learned to ride ..... two fingers for the clutch and three for the brake -- not easy, and one MUST have long fingers to "pull" it off (sorry, pun intended). It was VERY tricky, but I did become somewhat proficient. Fortunately, did not have many miles on the bike so there was not much muscle memory and I had very little trouble converting over to a more "normal" style (left clutch, right brake) a few months later.

Okay .... end of hijack ... we now return you to your regularly scheduled program (already in progress) .... Ann

[Tanshanomi]

I have a six speed manual gearbox in my car. When I drive my wife's truck, at just about every stoplight I instinctively reach for the clutch pedal and shifter that are not there.

[SpyderAnn01]

I'm glad I got my 17 F3T SM6 it will likely be my last new Spyder. They dropped the SM from the RTS in 16 and now they entirely dropped the RTS line which I think is sad. I really dislike the base models with the gray pieces and old style fenders so no chance I'll buy one if them.

[asp125]

I don't mind NOT having a clutch in the right circumstances. For instance I loved my Audi with paddle shift DSG - auto in the city gridlock, full manual in the twisties. If the Spyder's SE was more reliable (barring these reports of shifting issues) I'd consider it for say an RT. But for the sporting RS and ST it would be like putting an automatic in a Ferrari. That being said... even Ferrari is using paddle shifters these days, so I guess the days of the clutch lever are numbered.

[WackyDan]

I'm a manual guy. For me, a handful of clutch lever still screams "motorcycle" to me.

I'm also a F3-S guy, so this doesn't really impact me, but when I wear my 2017 out and want something new, they better still have a manual or I'll have to find a new brand. I've heard some great things about the new auto, but sometimes, traditional is less issue prone.

[Bob Denman]

If you think of it as a "Euro-Sportscar paddle-shifter": it's better than thinking of it as a: "RATS! They stole my motorcycle shifter!! :gaah:" :D

[rustynail51]

Glad I don't have a clutch lever to pull anymore fingers get painful in city traffic keep my old Honda naked wing around when I feel the need to pull a clutch it doesn't get used much .

[asp125]

Someday, a clutch lever will be a theft deterrent to bike thieves, much like a standard stick shift is to car thieves.

[Bob Denman]

:D The clutch and the shifter are still there: it's just that "Another Force" has control of them! :shocked:
Perhaps a kit that gets you back to "SM configuration", will become available? :dontknow:

[Tanshanomi]

I've demo'd the semi-autos three times. By the third time it felt less foreign and weird, but I still dislike having it shift on its own. If I want a different ratio, I'll choose it, thank you. I'd be happier if it would either stay in the gear I selected or was an infinite CVT, like a scooter, snowmobile, or Aprilia Mana.

[Bob Denman]

154022
They don't shift "on their own". If you don't upshift it: you'll stay in whatever gear you're in! :thumbup:
(But they WILL downshift, if they get the sense that the rpms are dropping too low...)

[Slagiatt]

When I bought my '15 F3S, I thought long and hard about "settling" and going with the semi-automatic (a real downer for me.) The reason I did this is the extreme (compared to every 2-wheeler I've ever had) difficulty of pulling the shift level. It is just plain work and not worth the effort, even though the MT experience is SOOOO much more fun and makes you feel so much more a part of the vehicle. Oh well.....

So, I'm driving a semi-automatic but wishing BRP had made the MT even a bit easier to shift.

:sour:

[Tanshanomi]

154022
They don't shift "on their own". If you don't upshift it: you'll stay in whatever gear you're in! :thumbup:
(But they WILL downshift, if they get the sense that the rpms are dropping too low...)

How are automatic downshifts not shifting "on their own?" That's exactly what bugs me. The transmission should either handle it all automatically, or let me handle gear changes. Don't make me select a gear and then veto my decision because I roll off the throttle.

[jcthorne]

How are automatic downshifts not shifting "on their own?" That's exactly what bugs me. The transmission should either handle it all automatically, or let me handle gear changes. Don't make me select a gear and then veto my decision because I roll off the throttle.

The SE does not 'veto your decision when you roll off the throttle' It ONLY down shifts automatically when the rpms reach engine minimum, somewhere under 2k rpm.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

How are automatic downshifts not shifting "on their own?" That's exactly what bugs me. The transmission should either handle it all automatically, or let me handle gear changes. Don't make me select a gear and then veto my decision because I roll off the throttle.
Are you saying you WANT to be able to make the engine lug and struggle to maintain speed when the RPM drops below the minimum design RPM for it to run smoothly and efficiently? The auto down shift is intended to prevent that, plus make sure you are always in 1st gear, not 6th, when you come to a stop. At speeds above the clutch engagement speed the engine RPM is controlled by the bike speed. Just because you roll off the throttle the bike does not downshift until the bike speed causes the engine speed to drop below the design minimum. If you want to manually downshift at a higher RPM you can.

[Tanshanomi]

Are you saying you WANT to be able to make the engine lug and struggle to maintain speed when the RPM drops below the minimum design RPM for it to run smoothly and efficiently? The auto down shift is intended to prevent that, plus make sure you are always in 1st gear, not 6th, when you come to a stop. At speeds above the clutch engagement speed the engine RPM is controlled by the bike speed. Just because you roll off the throttle the bike does not downshift until the bike speed causes the engine speed to drop below the design minimum. If you want to manually downshift at a higher RPM you can.

Of course I don't want to lug the engine. I do get what you're saying—sort of—but I manage to NOT lug the engine with a manual transmission just fine. Why is having a computer make a jerky downshift better than me just pulling in the clutch? At the other extreme, if it's smart enough to downshift on its own, why do I have to manually up-shift? Why not just make it fully automatic? I guess I just can't get my head around why the SE should behave the way it does. It seems like a solution in search of its own problems.

[blacklightning]

Of course I don't want to lug the engine. I do get what you're saying—sort of—but I manage to NOT lug the engine with a manual transmission just fine. Why is having a computer make a jerky downshift better than me just pulling in the clutch? At the other extreme, if it's smart enough to downshift on its own, why do I have to manually up-shift? Why not just make it fully automatic? I guess I just can't get my head around why the SE should behave the way it does. It seems like a solution in search of its own problems.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. My first spyder was a 2014 RT SM6, and I loved it. My thoughts were, why pay more for something else that can break. Well, my next bike was a 2012 RSS SE5. It took some getting used to, but it started to grow on me. Then when I had trouble with the shifting and had to pay nearly $800 to get it fixed, I wanted nothing to do with another SE.
Skip ahead 6 months and I decided to sell the RT, and trade in the RSS for a F3T. I chose a SE6 model for a couple of reasons:
1- Resale would be higher.
2- It was new and under warranty (probably will continue to be as long as I own it).
3- I was able to get it at a price that was the same as the SM6 model.

After driving my F3T SE6 for 5 months, I am a believer.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Of course I don't want to lug the engine. I do get what you're saying—sort of—but I manage to NOT lug the engine with a manual transmission just fine. Why is having a computer make a jerky downshift better than me just pulling in the clutch? At the other extreme, if it's smart enough to downshift on its own, why do I have to manually up-shift? Why not just make it fully automatic? I guess I just can't get my head around why the SE should behave the way it does. It seems like a solution in search of its own problems.
I almost never experience any jerkiness with the auto shift while slowing down. Auto shifting down but not up makes sense. There are firm limits to the combined engine and road speed at the bottom end. There isn't at the top end. Manual up shifting gives you the freedom to choose what RPM, above the minimum, you want to shift all the way to red line. You also have the freedom to down shift at whatever RPM you want above the minimum, and many riders do to use compression to slow down. I manually downshift mostly while going downhill to hold my speed back at the speed limit.

[r1100rider]

Count me as a manual guy. Thought I'd have enough to 'learn' going from two wheels to three so figured the manual was one thing I wouldn't have to learn. In reality I acclimated much quicker than many have said it normally takes, so guess I could have gone with the SE.
:yes:
On the other hand read a lot about the SE having shifting issues, clutch issues, stuck in gear issues and even emergency brake issues (which you HAVE to set with an SE, (so you are using it a lot more) you do not HAVE to on the SM (but should have you are on any kind of incline). So there is that.

Yet have to agree, resale value and resale pool of interested persons are both less.
:gaah:
It also depends on where you live I live at the only stoplight for 120 miles in 4 directions MT for me all the way if was riding in a city all the time SE. Resale should equal out less MT makes them rare and there are people that want them. Put an 04 dodge cummins 6 speed up for sale and they beat your door down to buy it

[Tanshanomi]

I almost never experience any jerkiness with the auto shift while slowing down. Auto shifting down but not up makes sense. There are firm limits to the combined engine and road speed at the bottom end. There isn't at the top end. Manual up shifting gives you the freedom to choose what RPM, above the minimum, you want to shift all the way to red line. You also have the freedom to down shift at whatever RPM you want above the minimum, and many riders do to use compression to slow down. I manually downshift mostly while going downhill to hold my speed back at the speed limit.

Well stated. I guess I simply haven't ridden an SE long enough to get used to it. I have no intention of giving up my RS-S SM5 anytime soon, so I guess it's all rather academic, really.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Well stated. I guess I simply haven't ridden an SE long enough to get used to it.
Quite normal for anyone who hasn't used an electric shift previously. I found it easy to use because my Honda ATV has electric shift. The newer ATVs have auto shift up and down that works great. It can be turned off and on. My brother has one and really likes it. But ATV riding in the mountains ain't nowhere near what Spyder riding is on the highway! :thumbup:

[ES44AC]

I always see leftover SM6 RT's at the dealerships ,so I guess they looked at the numbers and it wasn't enough to keep them.

I have a RTS SM6 and I love it most of the time ,except when my Achilles tendon is acting up. I walk 9-12 miles a day at work and I should have bought a SE6 because I ride it nearly every day. The MT is better when I'm riding for fun.

[Pirate looks at --]

Of course I don't want to lug the engine. I do get what you're saying—sort of—but I manage to NOT lug the engine with a manual transmission just fine. Why is having a computer make a jerky downshift better than me just pulling in the clutch? At the other extreme, if it's smart enough to downshift on its own, why do I have to manually up-shift? Why not just make it fully automatic? I guess I just can't get my head around why the SE should behave the way it does. It seems like a solution in search of its own problems.
I don't know about the others, but I control every shift on all of my rydes. Obviously I have to shift up, but, I do all of the downshifting a son well. On rare occasions I will allow the computer to drop into first gear as I come to a stop, but other than that I do it all. I don't have to mess with the clutch and the fun factor is still there!:yes:

[LateLifeCrisis]

Seriously - - just read this and because it seems so ridiculous, it's actually true. It seems that FORD IS LEAVING A HANG TAG ON THE SHIFTER IN IT'S MANUAL TRANSMISSION FORD FIESTAS because so few people know how to drive a stick anymore. On the hang tag Ford has left these handy little tips:

* Before applying any gear, the clutch pedal must be fully pressed.
* Press the clutch completely to the floor to avoid unwanted noise during the shift.
* Pressing the clutch completely to the floor will also result in an improvement of the shift feel.

But my favorite has to be this one: BRING THE VEHICLE TO A COMPLETE STOP BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO SHIFT INTO REVERSE.

So if one ever wanted to make a compelling argument for the proliferation of automatic transmissions, I would think that just the fact that Ford feels it necessary to hang a tag WITH WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS AND AN ILLUSTRATION on it's gear shift just might do it. By the way, whatever happened to the days when your brother taught you to drive on a Saturday afternoon on a back road . . . .

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

But my favorite has to be this one: BRING THE VEHICLE TO A COMPLETE STOP BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO SHIFT INTO REVERSE...I would think that just the fact that Ford feels it necessary to hang a tag WITH WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS
I don't think Ford 'feels' it is necessary. They've undoubtedly found that it IS necessary! :banghead: As to stopping before putting it into reverse many people find it works just fine with an automatic to shift into reverse before coming to a complete stop. I do. If they have no experience with manual shifting why wouldn't they likely think the same about a standard transmission.

I think the tag is a good idea because of the absence of standard transmissions in the automobile world.

[Pirate looks at --]

Really it is Fords Attorneys that feel it it necessary! Remember the contents of your coffee cup may be hot!:banghead: