SE5 not shifting

[speedster200]

New from BRP as of 05/07/09.
I'm writing this per the dealer internal news letter. YOU can do this mod yourself.:ohyea:

It you encounter an SE5 that gets stuck in any gear, then, after the key is shut off for 2 or more minutes will shift again, we have a simple and permanent solution. Add a ground wire from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the grounding lug on the left side of the frame, and from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the oil cooler mounting bolt just below the coil. You will need 27" of wire to follow the frame and harness and reach the grounding lug, and approximatley 4" to reach the oil cooler mounting bolt. Make sure to securely tie wrap the long wire. 16ga, 18gs, or 20ga wire will work fine. We suggest using black wire for asthetics and to respect the wiring color codes.

This is probably an RFI problem and wouldn't be a bad idea to do on an SM5. The less RFI interferance the better. Thats my 2 cents worth.:thumbup:

[rleathen]

Pictures....can anybody provide pictures of the various items that need to be grounded ??

[Firefly]

New from BRP as of 05/07/09.
I'm writing this per the dealer internal news letter. YOU can do this mod yourself.:ohyea:

It you encounter an SE5 that gets stuck in any gear, then, after the key is shut off for 2 or more minutes will shift again, we have a simple and permanent solution. Add a ground wire from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the grounding lug on the left side of the frame, and from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the oil cooler mounting bolt just below the coil. You will need 27" of wire to follow the frame and harness and reach the grounding lug, and approximatley 4" to reach the oil cooler mounting bolt. Make sure to securely tie wrap the long wire. 16ga, 18gs, or 20ga wire will work fine. We suggest using black wire for asthetics and to respect the wiring color codes.

This is probably an RFI problem and wouldn't be a bad idea to do on an SM5. The less RFI interferance the better. Thats my 2 cents worth.:thumbup:


Interesting. Will dealers be doing this update free of charge? I also agree that if it affects the SE5 it could affect the SM5 - but in a different way.

[bone crusher]

New from BRP as of 05/07/09.
I'm writing this per the dealer internal news letter. YOU can do this mod yourself.:ohyea:

It you encounter an SE5 that gets stuck in any gear, then, after the key is shut off for 2 or more minutes will shift again, we have a simple and permanent solution. Add a ground wire from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the grounding lug on the left side of the frame, and from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the oil cooler mounting bolt just below the coil. You will need 27" of wire to follow the frame and harness and reach the grounding lug, and approximatley 4" to reach the oil cooler mounting bolt. Make sure to securely tie wrap the long wire. 16ga, 18gs, or 20ga wire will work fine. We suggest using black wire for asthetics and to respect the wiring color codes.

This is probably an RFI problem and wouldn't be a bad idea to do on an SM5. The less RFI interferance the better. Thats my 2 cents worth.:thumbup:

What a mess...BRP...argh!

I don't know how this would affect the SM5...but hopefully it will help the SE5s...the dealers should be doing this for free...and hence, take the responsibility...if you do it yourself and have a problem, I don't know how the dealers will respond...

[bjt]

This sounds like an easy thing to do. Just a few pics of the location of exact mounting screws they are talking about would make this a "no brainer". Definitely couldn't hurt to be done on any Spyder whether they are having related issues or not.

[Lamonster]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=95327#post95327

[speedster200]

Talked to tech support and SE5s will be covered under warranty. SM5s will be on a case by case basis. Now not all dealers treat the spyder as a priority. With that being said, IF the dealer doesn't know about it, it has been posted under the 05/07/09 whats news section of BOSSWEB. FYI BOSSWEBB is the dealer direct website that is not available to the public.

[GaryTheBadger]

I did this mod last week and its fairly easy, figure two hours total. Everything is easy to access after removing four left-side body panels. You then disconnect the battery ground wire, construct the 27in and 5in wires (with lugs crimped and soldered onto the ends - my recommendation), install them per the next paragraph, reconnect the battery and replace all the body panels.

There is only one bolt holding the spark plug coil (just above the oil tank) to the frame, that's the one you attach both wires to, then the other end of the short wire goes down to the nearest oil cooler mounting bolt, the end of the longer wire goes forward and down to the master ground on the center frame rail, just ahead of the steering shaft. With the body panels off, this is all easy to see.

Its too soon to tell if it fixed the problem on my Spyder, it took until about 1500 miles before it stuck in gear for the first time, and I've only put on 100 miles since the wires were added.

I was also assured that by doing this BRP-recommended modification myself, I would not void the warranty. (If it works, I just saved BRP money, so they should continue my warranty!)

[bone crusher]

Talked to tech support and SE5s will be covered under warranty. SM5s will be on a case by case basis. Now not all dealers treat the spyder as a priority. With that being said, IF the dealer doesn't know about it, it has been posted under the 05/07/09 whats news section of BOSSWEB. FYI BOSSWEBB is the dealer direct website that is not available to the public.

Do SM5s even need this? I understand the SE5s need it done, but for the SM5s...case-by-case basis...what would we look for?

[Firefly]

Do SM5s even need this? I understand the SE5s need it done, but for the SM5s...case-by-case basis...what would we look for?

While they apparently don't 'need' this mod done - you're not gonna hurt anything by doing it. Obviously an SM5 isn't going to get stuck in gear, but other erratic problems that could be due to electrical 'noise' might be helped by this simple mod.

I'm in no hurry to do it, but next time I haver all the panels off I'll do it.

[bone crusher]

While they apparently don't 'need' this mod done - you're not gonna hurt anything by doing it. Obviously an SM5 isn't going to get stuck in gear, but other erratic problems that could be due to electrical 'noise' might be helped by this simple mod.

I'm in no hurry to do it, but next time I haver all the panels off I'll do it.

That makes sense...I'll print out this thread and take with me to the dealership...certainly, they should have this bulletin and be more than willing to do this for me...doesn't look like it will take too long either...

[speedster200]

Here are some pics.
First pic shows the ground wires at the coil pack, and the wire to the oil cooler mount. Remember to clear the paint off of the oil tank for a good ground.

Second pic shows the chassis ground. There are 3 wires to it and there is also a star ground washer. It is at the frame member that the steering column passes through.

Third pic is a better side view of the chassis ground. run the wire to the frame and through the existing wire ties along the frame. Be mindful of the exhaust, keep the wires away.

[ataDude]

Thanks for the pics!
.


Here are some pics.
First pic shows the ground wires at the coil pack, and the wire to the oil cooler mount. Remember to clear the paint off of the oil tank for a good ground.

Second pic shows the chassis ground. There are 3 wires to it and there is also a star ground washer. It is at the frame member that the steering column passes through.

Third pic is a better side view of the chassis ground. run the wire to the frame and through the existing wire ties along the frame. Be mindful of the exhaust, keep the wires away.

[bjt]

Thanks for the pics!
.



+1

[aubierules]

+1
+ 2:thumbup:

[rleathen]

Question regarding the grounding lug. On the SE5 where the ignition coil is found, it (the ignition coil) is attached to a bracket with that bracket mounted to a cylindrical frame member with a bolt (not the same bolt that the 27" wire and the 4" wire is attached to). Using a multimeter I checked and the negative battery post, the grounding lug on the side of the main frame and the ignition coil MOUNTING BRACKET bolt are all the same electrical point (0 resistance between the negative battery post and the grounding lug on the main frame, 0 resistance between the negative battery post and the ignition coil mounting bracket bolt and 0 resistance between the main grounding lug on the main frame and the ignition coil mounting bracket bolt).

With this in mind can the 27" wire that is supposed to go from the ignition coil mounting bolt to the grounding lug on the frame go to the mounting bracket bolt that is attached to the cylindrical frame member ?

EASIER MORE SIMPLE QUESTION FOLLOWS

In more simple terms instead of using the grounding lug on the side of the main frame rail can I use any bolt on any frame member that might be closer to the ignition coil and oil cooler since any point along any frame member is the same electrical point as the grounding lug on the main frame rail?

[speedster200]

You can ground it to any place on the frame or engine. It's a cleaned look having everything grounded at one point. It's the wire geek coming out in me.

[rleathen]

That is what I thought. I asked because to place the 27" wire end terminal connector (with the complete circle connector end) you have to totally remove the nut that backs the grounding bolt. Dealing with access to the nut is just a bit challenging. Thinking of making the task easier, I saw the bracket bolt situated right there above ignition coil and thought using that would make the task easier.

Thanks.

[Lamonster]

I'm not sure why you guys are running two wires for the ground. :dontknow:
Ground is ground right?

[nater1]

My bike has less than 1000 miles, and just had its 500 mile service. It is having the explained problem as well so I did this grounding solution which did not help. The problem has gotten worse in the last 50 miles now missing down shifts,keeping RPMs up, and screwing up as above. I plan to take to dealer Tue. I have read the tech book over, and believe it is a bad gear box sensor. The TPS, and the GBPS have a lot to do with this also so this is where I stand. I need to obtain the BUD dia tool for my laptop to look at this stuff my self as well.

I wish the tech guide had a adjustment procedure for various sensors that did not require a PC. I wish it would be based on voltage that could be monitored with a DMM.

[Dudley]

My bike has less than 1000 miles, and just had its 500 mile service. It is having the explained problem as well so I did this grounding solution which did not help. The problem has gotten worse in the last 50 miles now missing down shifts,keeping RPMs up, and screwing up as above. I plan to take to dealer Tue. I have read the tech book over, and believe it is a bad gear box sensor. The TPS, and the GBPS have a lot to do with this also so this is where I stand. I need to obtain the BUD dia tool for my laptop to look at this stuff my self as well.

I wish the tech guide had a adjustment procedure for various sensors that did not require a PC. I wish it would be based on voltage that could be monitored with a DMM.


Did you have the problem before the service?

[ataDude]

My bike has less than 1000 miles, and just had its 500 mile service. It is having the explained problem as well so I did this grounding solution which did not help. The problem has gotten worse in the last 50 miles now missing down shifts,keeping RPMs up, and screwing up as above. I plan to take to dealer Tue. I have read the tech book over, and believe it is a bad gear box sensor. The TPS, and the GBPS have a lot to do with this also so this is where I stand. I need to obtain the BUD dia tool for my laptop to look at this stuff my self as well.

I wish the tech guide had a adjustment procedure for various sensors that did not require a PC. I wish it would be based on voltage that could be monitored with a DMM.

If the cause is a generation one Gearbox Position Sensor (the solder problem, which can cause intermittent steering issues, idle problems and long-time-to-warm-up), it does not leave error codes. There is no telling what else is affected on an SE.

Because a bad GPS apparently does not leave error codes, it is difficult to diagnose. The only real way to test it, is to replace the sensor. My dealer has replaced upwards of eight, not including mine.

See my experiences here:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7831

BTW, to my knowledge, no one has yet successfully hi-jacked a copy of the BUDDS software and penetrated the BRP network (which would be illegal, BTW).
.

[nater1]

I thought German engineering was the best so when I purchased it I felt comfortable. Now 1000 mile later, and reading the bs I want to enjoy my purchase and have the ability to find a solution to my problem with out being **** up a creek. The BUDs would do that for me. If Can Am wants to keep tech software under lock then they will need to provide same day repair service on the spot. If not I will start my campaign to get ride of my Spyder by pushing my States lemon law of three strikes, and I get my money back rule. I did that with a Jeeps paint job one time so I know that system.
I really want is a enjoyable purchase, were I feel comfortable not having to have a wrecker follow me around to recovery me, and deliver me to a dealer. Then have to wait a week to get repairs as I purchase air line tickets to get home, and then fly back to pick my bike up. FTS life is to short for games that last so I will push the button now, and get strike number one out of the way. If it is not fixed then go for strike two, and the strike three to get my $17,000 back.

Can am would be better to sell me a $400 software package then have me wrap the independent dealer network who could give a dam.

[speedster200]

Rode 300 miles today no problems what so ever. I didn't have any problems before the bulletin. I just did it as a precaution.:clap:

[jimmar]

Bow Cycle from Calgary delivered my SE5 back to me on Saturday after having it for two weeks they fixed the locking up in gear problem by running ground wires. Ive ridden it for 3 days now without any problems, fingers crossed this is the end of the nightmare. They replaced my squeaky brakes as well but the new brakes still squeak ????. Thaks to BJ from Bow Cycle, I know he went the extra mile for me.

[Dudley]

I thought German engineering was the best so when I purchased it I felt comfortable. Now 1000 mile later, and reading the bs I want to enjoy my purchase and have the ability to find a solution to my problem with out being **** up a creek. The BUDs would do that for me. If Can Am wants to keep tech software under lock then they will need to provide same day repair service on the spot. If not I will start my campaign to get ride of my Spyder by pushing my States lemon law of three strikes, and I get my money back rule. I did that with a Jeeps paint job one time so I know that system.
I really want is a enjoyable purchase, were I feel comfortable not having to have a wrecker follow me around to recovery me, and deliver me to a dealer. Then have to wait a week to get repairs as I purchase air line tickets to get home, and then fly back to pick my bike up. FTS life is to short for games that last so I will push the button now, and get strike number one out of the way. If it is not fixed then go for strike two, and the strike three to get my $17,000 back.

Can am would be better to sell me a $400 software package then have me wrap the independent dealer network who could give a dam.

I really don't understand some of the stuff you have written, so I won't go there. If you are not willing to give your dealer a chance to correct your issues, then you will create a worse problem. I don't know of any company willing to give or sell you their computer programs to solve problems. Most people would have no idea how to go about the program. So I don't know where you are leading to. If you want to have a wrecker follow you, get one on retainer, but leave BRP out of it. I don't know of anything made by man that doesn't break, so chill. If you want to go to court, have at it. Doing that doesn't impress most of us...the Spyder is a new machine and most of us are willing to be patient to help make it a better machine by getting ours fixed and learning as we go, and sharing our experiences with others. And for your information, the Spyder is made in Canada, not Germany. Get your facts. The VSS system is German, and as with anything electrical, it does not warn you when it wants to go bad. That's a chance we all take with anything we buy.

[Dudley]

My bike has less than 1000 miles, and just had its 500 mile service. It is having the explained problem as well so I did this grounding solution which did not help. The problem has gotten worse in the last 50 miles now missing down shifts,keeping RPMs up, and screwing up as above. I plan to take to dealer Tue. I have read the tech book over, and believe it is a bad gear box sensor. The TPS, and the GBPS have a lot to do with this also so this is where I stand. I need to obtain the BUD dia tool for my laptop to look at this stuff my self as well.

I wish the tech guide had a adjustment procedure for various sensors that did not require a PC. I wish it would be based on voltage that could be monitored with a DMM.

I am expressing my objections to your abbreviations for vulgarity and your **** use in your other posts. If you can't post in any other manner, please stay off the Forum.

[speedster200]

Ditto

[GaryTheBadger]

LAMONSTER - Earlier in this thread you asked why run TWO ground wires, since ground is ground. Those of us who did the mod ourselves or had a dealer do it used two wires because that's exactly what BRP says to do and we want our Sypders fixed. But its a really good question! BRP...if you are reading these forums, why TWO ground wires to the same point on the coil?

[Lamonster]

LAMONSTER - Earlier in this thread you asked why run TWO ground wires, since ground is ground. Those of us who did the mod ourselves or had a dealer do it used two wires because that's exactly what BRP says to do and we want our Sypders fixed. But its a really good question! BRP...if you are reading these forums, why TWO ground wires to the same point on the coil?

When I talked to one of my BRP contacts he never mentioned a second ground wire, only the 27" one. This was before it was a official service bulletin.

[bjt]

LAMONSTER - Earlier in this thread you asked why run TWO ground wires, since ground is ground. Those of us who did the mod ourselves or had a dealer do it used two wires because that's exactly what BRP says to do and we want our Sypders fixed. But its a really good question! BRP...if you are reading these forums, why TWO ground wires to the same point on the coil?


When I talked to one of my BRP contacts he never mentioned a second ground wire, only the 27" one. This was before it was a official service bulletin.

Could be they decided to get the ground to the ignition coil bracket and, from there, to get ground to the oil cooler mount. That way you use only about 30 inches of wire instead of 50 inches of wire. :dontknow:

[Lamonster]

27" is more than enough to go from the coil pack to the ground lug. :dontknow:

[bjt]

And then another 30 inches to get to the oil cooler mount from the ground lug. I am just guessing that someone at BRP decided they should also ground the oil cooler mount directly to the frame for some reason. Hence they said, "Lets just add a second 4" wire from the ignition coil ground wire we'll tell them to run to catch the oil cooler mount also." Maybe they decided they weren't getting a good enough ground there through paint, powdercoat, thread locker, etc. :dontknow: No telling unless the engineers or mechanics at BRP tell us why. Sometimes people do a shotgun approach to fixing things, especially if its hard to understand or track down exactly what's happening or why. Thats the way some things get fixed at my workplace. I'm sure its the same everywhere.

[nater1]

Every other company retails a scanner. Why does CAN AM/ BRP not offer this. I wish I would have known when I purchased this spyder that I would just be borrowing from the dealer, and not owning it.:lecturef_smilie:

[Longlegs]

Every other company retails a scanner. Why does CAN AM/ BRP not offer this. I wish I would have known when I purchased this spyder that I would just be borrowing from the dealer, and not owning it.:lecturef_smilie:
Isnt there a way to read the codes on the speedo display?

[ataDude]

Isnt there a way to read the codes on the speedo display?

Yes... current codes only... not historic.

.

[speedster200]

I think the oil cooler is mounted in rubber isolators (not a good ground). Vehicles electronic control components are being made to function at the milli volt level. Electronic noise from a component like the coil function at the k volt level. This is a big descrepency. The need for good clean grounds is imperative in any electronic controled vehicle. Ground it to the frame where you are comfortable with. It is a pain to get to the frame ground bolt. Do yourself a favor and Just ground it.

[Putt-Putt]

Here are some pics.
First pic shows the ground wires at the coil pack, and the wire to the oil cooler mount. Remember to clear the paint off of the oil tank for a good ground.

Second pic shows the chassis ground. There are 3 wires to it and there is also a star ground washer. It is at the frame member that the steering column passes through.

Third pic is a better side view of the chassis ground. run the wire to the frame and through the existing wire ties along the frame. Be mindful of the exhaust, keep the wires away.

Thanks! very much appreciated.:thumbup:

[Ryno]

Thanks! very much appreciated.:thumbup:

Ditto to all who chimed in on this thread. I love my Spyder, and I am Glad That BRP is at least addressing these issues. To the guy who wants a lemon law suit.

I can understand your frustration with the issues with your new purchase. But that is what warranties are for. You could own a harley and have to work on it everyday to keep the oil leaks at bay!!!

:yikes::yikes: To all harley owners.. I love you man!!:cheers:

[Pilo]

When I talked to one of my BRP contacts he never mentioned a second ground wire, only the 27" one. This was before it was a official service bulletin.

I have installed a home-made ground wire from the coils to the oil radiator mount bolt.

Do I really need to install the second one to the grounding lug on the frame?

My 2009 SE5 so far (+/- 450 miles) hasn't stuck in any gear, but when started in the mornings, and after backing out of my garage, it takes some fiddling to get it to go into first gear, and sometimes it even shows an 'E' reading in the dash.

This is not repeated after being warmed up / ridden for some time.

Suggestions? :dontknow:

[NancysToy]

I have installed a home-made ground wire from the coils to the oil radiator mount bolt.

Do I really need to install the second one to the grounding lug on the frame?

My 2009 SE5 so far (+/- 450 miles) hasn't stuck in any gear, but when started in the mornings, and after backing out of my garage, it takes some fiddling to get it to go into first gear, and sometimes it even shows an 'E' reading in the dash.

This is not repeated after being warmed up / ridden for some time.

Suggestions? :dontknow:
You do need the second ground wire, to the frame. The oil cooler is mounted to the oil tank bracket, same as the coil, so it is rubber mounted. The frame wire is the more critical of the two...it is the only one actually grounded.

The "E" problem sounds like a bad GPS (Gear Position Sensor), or bad calibration. Out of whack until it warms up. Have the dealer calibrtate or replace it.

[Pilo]

You do need the second ground wire, to the frame. The oil cooler is mounted to the oil tank bracket, same as the coil, so it is rubber mounted. The frame wire is the more critical of the two...it is the only one actually grounded.

The "E" problem sounds like a bad GPS (Gear Position Sensor), or bad calibration. Out of whack until it warms up. Have the dealer calibrtate or replace it.

Scotty:

Yesterday night, after removing all the side-forward tupperware in my SE5 and looking at the main ground lug..., I had second thoughts.

But then, when I finally managed to slip my hand behind the frame member to verify if the lug-nut was tack welded (it wasn't...) I decided not to risk losing time, knuckles' skin, and perhaps the even nut, by trying to hold it with some kind of tool small enough to fit in that recessed space.

After verifying the location of the rubber 'grommet', I chose the coils' plate mounting-bolt located directly above them. With a small wire brush I removed a little bit of paint from the back of the mounting bracket plate (which is welded to a tubular frame member) and installed a much shorter ground wire.

Started the SE5 and reversed it out of my garage for a test. No sticking in reverse, no fiddling, no 'E' reading on the dash. Just went into 1st. at the first jab of the paddle. :clap:

I'll will ride and test it today more throughly and will report back IF any snafus occurs.

Saludos, Pilo

P.S: 'bjt' said that I can run into trouble with having multiple ground points, because sufficient resistance between multiple "grounds" can cause problems, but I'll just see if anything ever develops. The SE5 common ground lug is definitely NOT readily reachable. :shocked:

[brutus450]

LAMONSTER - Earlier in this thread you asked why run TWO ground wires, since ground is ground. Those of us who did the mod ourselves or had a dealer do it used two wires because that's exactly what BRP says to do and we want our Sypders fixed. But its a really good question! BRP...if you are reading these forums, why TWO ground wires to the same point on the coil?

sometimes ground IS NOT ground. Two points of ground can compensate for the ONE correct ground. I used to install high end car stereos and you better make sure you get the right gounding point or the stereo will get BAD interference (engine noise - you hear high pitch and varies with engine speed). If you try all different ground points oround the vehicle and still get siganl noise, you can try TWO points of ground and sometimes is takes out the interference!

[brutus450]

Could be they decided to get the ground to the ignition coil bracket and, from there, to get ground to the oil cooler mount. That way you use only about 30 inches of wire instead of 50 inches of wire. :dontknow:,

Also a good point, the shorter the ground wire(s) the better it will be. Less wire to pick up interference

[Extracool]

Have all of the computer downloads plus the grounding of the coil by Can-Am dealer.Spyder locks up in gear or does not know to downshift,have had the steering and transmission update loaded several times but the program keeps dropping out, also had a new powersteering unit installed,BRP says probably need S.A.S. the sensor under the powersteering unit,have that on order, hoping for the best this time:chat:

[Sally02430]

'Never had a problem....4500 miles since April. OHH....Motorkote in the oil! That's my secret. Now if I could get into the RT.....Hmmmmmm:chat:....:chat: