O M G - Monster Fuel Inj Rocks! Flashed ECU!

[fatboy]

oogness monster fuel inj. rocks my f3 is ALIVE thats the way it should perform thanks so much ps if you dont have this done you are doing your bike and yourself a big disservice pss the wife cant what for me to get her rt flashed

[fatboy]

if there are any doubters in indy area that want to feel for there selfs contact me

[Chupaca]

sounds like this change has made a big difference. Nice to offer a test ryde to doubters :bowdown: this should make up their minds...nothing like a test ryde.....:spyder:

[ATitus]

What's the cost of something like that being done?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

oogness monster fuel inj. rocks my f3 is ALIVE thats the way it should perform thanks so much ps if you dont have this done you are doing your bike and yourself a big disservice pss the wife cant what for me to get her rt flashed
Could you keep some accurate MPG numbers to see what effect it has on that .... I along with others will want to know ,,.... Thanks in advance :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup:.........Mike :bbq:

[blacklightning]

I am glad to hear this. Seems like it had been sort of quite about this tune for a while, and I was questioning if it was real. I hope someone at the rally in Maggie Valley has this done. I would be quite interested in talking to them extensively.

[pitzerwm]

Once this is done, any idea how it would effect the BUDS system and your warranty.

[aklim]

Once this is done, any idea how it would effect the BUDS system and your warranty.

I would assume it depends on how lucky you are. If for instance, I use Amsoil instead of the BRP oil and the rating was the same, I am protected by law. OTOH, you put transmission fluid in place of motor oil and your engine is toasted, well, GM can tell you to go pound sand. The way I understand it is that if the item you put in can be said to cause the failure, you are SOL. So if I added a supercharger and complain that the transmission and rear end went south, they can state "We built your car around that engine and NOT the additional power the supercharger makes. Failure is on YOU.". In this case, they built the transmission to withstand the 200HP engine. You crank it up to 300 and it isn't their fault.

Bottom line is when I mod for power, as this case is, I am on my own.

[aklim]

https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

1330cc Flash


Ultra smooth throttle transitions
15% torque increase, roll-on power is improved 1000-5000 rpm.
New Ultra wide power band gives vast power gains 5000 rpm to redline
91 Octane Tune (can use 93 to promote best power output)
Works with every combination of stock exhaust, cat delete or free flow muffler
Retains factory mapping, feedback systems and fuel mileage under half throttle
Stock 8100 or 8600 rpm limiter choice

Item 2 is the problem. 15% torque increase. Problem is that while it retains factory mapping under half throttle, it will change things AFTER half throttle and BRP can refuse to get involved with you when a related item breaks like the transmission or engine. OTOH, if you replace your incandescent headlights with LED, they cannot fault you when the engine block cracks.

[Ex-Rocket]

The dealer at Cowtown USA was mentioning something like that when we had Spyder Jam this year. Believe he was talking about a chip change that would increase the horsepower from 115 to 140 HP Don't know what the outcome was as they were still having problems with the programming of the chip.

[AllanSpyder]

If you keep your rev limiter stock then it is not detectable. The thing is that if someone from dealer`s shop will take a ride with your Spyder they will surely know that it is not stock anymore. The difference is real big performance wise.

Allan


Once this is done, any idea how it would effect the BUDS system and your warranty.

[Bob Denman]

:clap: :2thumbs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKAjiwjJ9fI

[Dennis in Lodi]

The reason it's quiet about the incredible flash from Monster Fuel is because everyone who has had it done is riding, not posting. How ANYONE can looked at this video of my flashed 2015 RT and not say WTF and OMG, really doesn't understand the amazing transformation. https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/ This video shows an RT laying down 25' of rubber, lifting the front end like a snowmobile and going 0 to 88 mph in less than 9 seconds. That's matches the F3 Daytona. But the real improvement for the RT is NOT the hole shot, but the usable roll on power from 4,600 to 7,000 rpm. In this rpm range you get two up passing power in 5th gear where STOCK you would have to down shift to 3rd gear and STILL NOT KEEP UP WITH THE FLASHED RT!!! On my RT, up to 95 mph, I ran neck to neck with my testing buddy on his stock F3S. My worst tank was 32 mpg and my best was 40 mpg, no real change as you don't really hold the throttle open for very long to get the RT moving.

I traded that RT in for a new 2016 F3L and NOT ONE WORD WAS SAID AT THE DEALER WHEN THEY SAW MY TOP RPM WAS 9,100.
I flashed it right away and here is what is different from the RT. The RT benefits from the flash down low, literally from 3,500 rpm as it gets good long power pulls. The stock F3 already pulled this area very well and having more flashed power there isn't that noticeable. BUT, when you get to about 6,800 rpm this is where things really start to happen. Where the flash really shines is under full loads at higher speed in the upper gears. I have the 8,600 rev limit option and from 7,600 to red line my bike throws my helmet back. I can take 5th gear starting at around 50 mph, hold the throttle open and go all the way to red line which is about 110 mph in around 10 seconds. This is where the flash shines for the F3 platform, when it has a big load and higher gears without down shifting.
Easily the most performance gain I have ever had for $350 plus shipping.

BTW: I am stage two flash testing where all speed restrictions are moved to 120 mph. That means instead of the throttle butter flies speed restrictions starting to close down your fun on an RT at 92 mph and the F3 at 105 mph, all 1330 motors will have full power available to 120 mph before the throttle butter flies start to close down your fun. This will enable the F3 platform to red line 6th gear under full power.
Dennis, near Chicago

[millerrdjr]

I too have had the Monster Flash on my 2014 RT.
It is an amazing difference in power/torque.
Well worth the cost!
DO IT !

[aklim]

I traded that RT in for a new 2016 F3L and NOT ONE WORD WAS SAID AT THE DEALER WHEN THEY SAW MY TOP RPM WAS 9,100.

How did they know what the top rpm was? I suppose they could scan it but what would prompt them to? I traded I cars and an RSS but nobody did a scan.

[fatboy]

sorry blue knight cant reply on mpg but i am happy to report there are lots and lots of smiles

[Dennis in Lodi]

As part of the trade in process they hook up the buds confirm codes and maintenance. As I looked over the mechanics shoulder I saw top RPM 9100 rpm.
The mechanic who hooked up the buds called the other mechanic over and showed him the line as if perplexed by the number. They unplugged the buds and said they are OK with the trade going forward.



How did they know what the top rpm was? I suppose they could scan it but what would prompt them to? I traded I cars and an RSS but nobody did a scan.

[aklim]

As part of the trade in process they hook up the buds confirm codes and maintenance. As I looked over the mechanics shoulder I saw top RPM 9100 rpm.
The mechanic who hooked up the buds called the other mechanic over and showed him the line as if perplexed by the number. They unplugged the buds and said they are OK with the trade going forward.

Was that Rob's or Englehardt?

[Spyd_Piper]

Don't get much time to come on here. very busy.

For those interested, Rotax engine are extremely well built and bullet proof. Your not going to blow it up by retrieving the power its spec'd at. In stock form, they are quite detuned and under rated from the spec sheets.

Since 2007 we have been tuning all sorts of rotax 1, 2 and 3 cylinder engines in ATV, SSV and street. A lot of builds at +50% hp over factory. They stand up. Once your over 200hp, you can find the weak links. We have a decade of rotax engine and tuning experience.
From 2011 up we tune atleast 250+ units per year. This year since we introduced spyder, and other toys (like Seadoo, Skidoo, Polaris, Kawasaki and Yamaha - both on/off road stuff), this number of tuned engines per year is growing extremely fast.

[BLUEZL600EFI]

So you can only request the 8600 rev limit if you run 100+ octane?

[Spyder555]

So you can only request the 8600 rev limit if you run 100+ octane?

Not at all. Octane and rev limit have no relation. Run 91 (or 93 ok too) and pick your limiter.

[aklim]

Not at all. Octane and rev limit have no relation. Run 91 (or 93 ok too) and pick your limiter.

What does the ECM have for knock retard?

What does increasing the rev limit do? IOW how high can I spin it till the torque curve drops?

[Spyd_Piper]

What does the ECM have for knock retard?

What does increasing the rev limit do? IOW how high can I spin it till the torque curve drops?


The spyder setup has knock sensors for knock control. (as any automobile) These feedback an AC signal to ecu to interpret levels of knock.

Increasing the rev limit lets your engine rev higher. (the engine still makes great power and pulls to 8600 before any significant power drop above this) Revving higher extends each gear. (ALL motorcycles have rev limits well above there peak horsepower point)

Torque falls off after peak torque point. (as with any engine) On the spyder (stock engine internals) this is claimed at 5000rpm. (But I think its more like 6000rpm after flash) But if your confusing torque vs horsepower, peak horsepower is claimed at 7250rpm. I estimate its closer to atleast 7600 after reflash. The right setup could even hold peak up to 8250.

[aklim]

The spyder setup has knock sensors for knock control. (as any automobile) These feedback an AC signal to ecu to interpret levels of knock.

Increasing the rev limit lets your engine rev higher. (the engine still makes great power and pulls to 8600 before any significant power drop above this) Revving higher extends each gear. (ALL motorcycles have rev limits well above there peak horsepower point)

Torque falls off after peak torque point. (as with any engine) On the spyder (stock engine internals) this is claimed at 5000rpm. (But I think its more like 6000rpm after flash) But if your confusing torque vs horsepower, peak horsepower is claimed at 7250rpm. I estimate its closer to atleast 7600 after reflash. The right setup could even hold peak up to 8250.

Not trying to call you out or be a jerk but the reason I ask is because I want to be sure that if push came to shove and we had to use some crummy 87 octane, the engine wouldn't detonate and wasn't sure what they have for spark retard.

Does that affect what point we shift at? IIRC, it was recommended I upshift at 2500-3000.

Very interesting. Just a question. On a 17 F3 Limited, what does your dyno say I can get if I run 91-93 octane only in the streetable range?

Final question. I can't seem to find a specific set of removal instructions and for obvious reasons, if I should choose to pursue it, I probably want to DIY. Any ideas?

[Spyd_Piper]

Not trying to call you out or be a jerk but the reason I ask is because I want to be sure that if push came to shove and we had to use some crummy 87 octane, the engine wouldn't detonate and wasn't sure what they have for spark retard.

Does that affect what point we shift at? IIRC, it was recommended I upshift at 2500-3000.

Very interesting. Just a question. On a 17 F3 Limited, what does your dyno say I can get if I run 91-93 octane only in the streetable range?

Final question. I can't seem to find a specific set of removal instructions and for obvious reasons, if I should choose to pursue it, I probably want to DIY. Any ideas?


- Both the factory mapping and reprogrammed mapping require 91+..... But you can use 87 in a pinch.
First - understand that damaging detonation happens at high loads. (high throttle openings)
If you ever need to use 87 octane, simply stay at light loads. (below 50% throttle grip) and don't lug engine (don't use high gears with low rpm). You will be able to ride it wherever you need to as long as you want. Then once you got fresh high octane fuel back in it and tank cycled, have at it again.

- There is more power everywhere. You can shift wherever you like. You can short shift and ride the torque curve anywhere in the 3000-5000 range. Or you can let er rip and shift in the 5000-8000 range. There are no rules and each user will find a sweet spot that they themselves enjoy.

- What do you mean - what does the dyno say? - There is only 1 piece of data that a dyno can say. A chassis dyno is a tool that measures wide open throttle horsepower. Thats it.

A word about dyno's.
They are not for mapping EFI. (sure some people do as its convenient being stationary - and dynojet has "sold" this notion to the public that things should be mapped on a dyno. Err... on their dyno) But its simply wrong. An engine dyno is good for base mapping. (as OEM uses) On the ground is where its fine tuned. (where OEM and an ecu itself does this)
A chassis dyno is good for measuring peak hp changes. They are not intended or useful for part throttle hp figures. Fuel mapping. They are NO good for setting ignition timing figures either. The dyno brake can make ANY spot detonate as it can load engine well beyond real world conditions. This will surely have the outcome of being too rich and non optimal / lazy ignition timing compared to proper mapping. I have seen many many times AFR swing 2-3 points from being on dyno to road.

The big problem is trying to get any related engine brake load or inertia to real world conditions of a vehicle under its own weight, rider weight. And be remotely consistent. You can ask 100 different dyno operators what % of brake load will mimic the real world conditions - you will get 100 different answers. And I would bet none of them did proper testing for any particular vehicle in question.
Use the right tool for the right job.

As for peak power numbers. We have yet to find a dyno in our area that can take the footprint of the spyder. And for remote dyno test somewhere, we have yet to find one that can be lined up to have BUDS system there to allow dyno runs with defeating traction control / ABS operation. (put system in roller mode)

- What is streetable range? All rpm can be used on the street. At any time. Just as all throttle position (if the space allows)

- I will put basic instructions on the website.

[TRLBLZR1]

Not trying to call you out or be a jerk but the reason I ask is because I want to be sure that if push came to shove and we had to use some crummy 87 octane, the engine wouldn't detonate and wasn't sure what they have for spark retard.

Does that affect what point we shift at? IIRC, it was recommended I upshift at 2500-3000.

Very interesting. Just a question. On a 17 F3 Limited, what does your dyno say I can get if I run 91-93 octane only in the streetable range?

Final question. I can't seem to find a specific set of removal instructions and for obvious reasons, if I should choose to pursue it, I probably want to DIY. Any ideas?


Up-shift recommended @ 2500-3000? Seems way too low for this 1330 engine unless your just cruising really, really easy on flat. (So low the notion of "lugging" & low rpm knocking under load comes to mind, particularly with the clutched version that won't downshift.) Either way, you're barely into the torque (and not even touching significant HP) at those low rpm's.

[aklim]

Up-shift recommended @ 2500-3000? Seems way too low for this 1330 engine unless your just cruising really, really easy on flat. (So low the notion of "lugging" & low rpm knocking under load comes to mind, particularly with the clutched version that won't downshift.) Either way, you're barely into the torque (and not even touching significant HP) at those low rpm's.

I know it won't downshift below 2500 and this is with auto. I upshift past 3000. What do you suggest?

[TRLBLZR1]

I know it won't downshift below 2500 and this is with auto. I upshift past 3000. What do you suggest?

Honestly, I seldom look at the tach. (unless I'm pushing hard from a stop in 1'st.) I shift by sound & feel. But I know it's at least 1k higher than 3000 under most circumstances. No point in using excessive throttle, I'd just get into the power a little! ;-)

I'm going to see where the tach. typically "sits" while I'm driving. ~ I'm guessing I usually "cruise" around 3,000 rpm. when travelling at constant speed/level ground etc. (and up-shift around 4k, maybe a touch higher)

[Jetfixer]

Up-shift recommended @ 2500-3000? Seems way too low for this 1330 engine unless your just cruising really, really easy on flat. (So low the notion of "lugging" & low rpm knocking under load comes to mind, particularly with the clutched version that won't downshift.) Either way, you're barely into the torque (and not even touching significant HP) at those low rpm's.

The 1330 engine is at or above 80lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm, and at about 89lb/ft at 3000. The peak is about 97lb/ft at about 4600 rpm. I routinely shift at or before 3000 rpm and it is just fine. I also am getting about 41 mpg shifting like this. I only run 89 octane non-ethanol gas unless it's not available while traveling, in which case I use the recommended premium fuel. You can't lug this engine on the SE-6, it will downshift on its own. Also, the spec sheets says, "Cruise comfortably in 6th gear at 3300 rpm."

[TRLBLZR1]

The 1330 engine is at or above 80lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm, and at about 89lb/ft at 3000. The peak is about 97lb/ft at about 4600 rpm. I routinely shift at or before 3000 rpm and it is just fine. I also am getting about 41 mpg shifting like this. I only run 89 octane non-ethanol gas unless it's not available while traveling, in which case I use the recommended premium fuel. You can't lug this engine on the SE-6, it will downshift on its own. Also, the spec sheets says, "Cruise comfortably in 6th gear at 3300 rpm."

Yep, that's about where I cruise. Great gas mileage by the way! (Mine seems pretty "sleepy" @ 2000 rpm.... I'm surprised there's that much torque down so low.)

[aklim]

- What do you mean - what does the dyno say? - There is only 1 piece of data that a dyno can say. A chassis dyno is a tool that measures wide open throttle horsepower. Thats it..

As for peak power numbers. We have yet to find a dyno in our area that can take the footprint of the spyder. And for remote dyno test somewhere, we have yet to find one that can be lined up to have BUDS system there to allow dyno runs with defeating traction control / ABS operation. (put system in roller mode)

I guess I am used to a car where you can look at the HP/Torque curve "BEFORE and AFTER"

So the only way to tell is Seat of The Pants dyno or how does one make the evaluation of how much improvement there is at different rpm points? :dontknow:

[Dennis in Lodi]

Here is where the finale product is at for performance. This is for a 2015 RT
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds = 13 mph faster in 1st gear
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds = 20 mph faster in 2nd gear
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds = 23 mph faster in 3rd gear

Here is the PROOF of the above stated results. Check the elapsed times on the Video against the performance claims above. Then take your stock RT and test your times against the data. I mean seriously, what does it really take for people to accept facts??? Here is a video of a flash RT laying down 25' of rubber, WITH THE NANNY KICKING IN, and still getting to 68 mph in 6 seconds. Come on man!!!!
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

Note to all: if you never take your machine routinely above 5,000 rpm for shifting now, a flash is not going to really be that noticeable. Here is what the flash does best for the RT platform. Take a stock RT at 45 mph in 3rd gear and line it up against a Flashed RT in 5th gear and accelerate to 85 mph. Even though the stock RT is in 3rd gear, it will be several bike lengths behind the flashed RT which is in 5th gear. Then note above in 3. that if you did shift down to 3rd gear in a FLASHED RT @ 45 mph you would be going more than 20 mph faster than the stock RT. It's about two up roll on passing power without downshifting.


I guess I am used to a car where you can look at the HP/Torque curve "BEFORE and AFTER"

So the only way to tell is Seat of The Pants dyno or how does one make the evaluation of how much improvement there is at different rpm points? :dontknow:

[aklim]

Here is where the finale product is at for performance. This is for a 2015 RT
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds = 13 mph faster in 1st gear
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds = 20 mph faster in 2nd gear
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds = 23 mph faster in 3rd gear

Here is the PROOF of the above stated results. Check the elapsed times on the Video against the performance claims above. Then take your stock RT and test your times against the data. I mean seriously, what does it really take for people to accept facts??? Here is a video of a flash RT laying down 25' of rubber, WITH THE NANNY KICKING IN, and still getting to 68 mph in 6 seconds. Come on man!!!!
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

Note to all: if you never take your machine routinely above 5,000 rpm for shifting now, a flash is not going to really be that noticeable. Here is what the flash does best for the RT platform. Take a stock RT at 45 mph in 3rd gear and line it up against a Flashed RT in 5th gear and accelerate to 85 mph. Even though the stock RT is in 3rd gear, it will be several bike lengths behind the flashed RT which is in 5th gear. Then note above in 3. that if you did shift down to 3rd gear in a FLASHED RT @ 45 mph you would be going more than 20 mph faster than the stock RT. It's about two up roll on passing power without downshifting.

Fair enough. I can use that info. Now I will shut down the F3 over winter and send the ECM out.

[fatboy]

went to the track today best time 14.332 mph 93.60 1/4 mile

[Sweetwater]

Which F3 is it? what was the stock time?