And yet another one....

[Roadster Renovations]

148905

Posted on FB.

[Bfromla]

:hun::dontknow: Please clue in the clueless:coffee::2thumbs:

[Tazzel]

Looks like another belt tensioner fail?

[d.o.spyder-rts]

That was my guess. Dale

[Habib]

Is that on a BRP factory part? If so I'll be removing mine, that's just poorly engineered and to cheap to work. I should have known better.

[Chupaca]

Now that one is way past rattley or noisey....Think they need to look a bit deeper into their product cause if it's gonna shread the belt they will have serious problems....:lecturef_smilie:

[Roadster Renovations]

Yes. Carry zip ties if you have one. Either RT or F3 failing now.

[Kwalsh]

So for those of us who don't know, is that a factory tensioner or an aftermarket add on??

Is this such a common problem that we should know about this?

[Highwayman2013]

So for those of us who don't know, is that a factory tensioner or an aftermarket add on??

Is this such a common problem that we should know about this?

It is one you buy from BRP for the F3.

[Roadster Renovations]

So for those of us who don't know, is that a factory tensioner or an aftermarket add on??

Is this such a common problem that we should know about this?

OEM add on have been failing for a bit. Looks as though since the ryding is increasing they are failing more frequently.

[Bob Denman]

Get yourself one of Doc's: the double-bearing setup is a whole lot stronger! :thumbup:

[bmccaffrey]

SMOOTHSPYDER TESTED AND PROVEN

[Roadster Renovations]

I published this comparison video 4 months ago. Some of you may have not seen it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MroevN8g7T4

[Av8er]

I am assuming this will eat up the belt when it goes?
Pisses me off you spend good money on this crap that doesn't last.
This is good news for you Doc. Thanks for the heads up, you will be getting another order shortly from me.

[Firefly]

OEM add on have been failing for a bit. Looks as though since the ryding is increasing they are failing more frequently.

While on our trip to Valcourt and back, WackyDan had his start 'chirping' so we zip-tied it up. Mine has become louder after around 5,000 miles on it.
I'm also questioning if some of my vibration problems have been due to the BRP tensioner.
Right now what happens is my ride starts out smooth. Then after running at 75 mph for a few hours I pull over for a gas stop.. maybe a 15 minute break. When I start back out I have vibrations for a few miles and then they go away. The sound of the tensioner seems to change as well. My guess is it's been heating up and cooling off and possibly dragging on the belt causing worse vibrations, then it heats up and starts spinning better and thus the vibrations end.

I've ordered one of your kits and will install as soon as I get it.

I was a bit skeptical that these would fail so soon and thought for $40 to just replace them every 30,000 miles or so... so no big deal. Well, after seeing the damage done to Marks and others having failures while on the road... I can no longer support running the stock BRP tensioner. They will fail.. and fail rapidly with potential damage.

Glad you took the time to come up with a fix to their fix......:thumbup:

[WackyDan]

Yup... Mine has only 4300 miles on it since I installed the tensioner... and we zip tied it up as the roller was wobbly. I was getting some strange chirping noise but more importantly I was starting to feel some vibration again.

Mark Baker (might be the picture at the top of this post) had his fail after 6000 miles and the bolt ate partially through his belt.

Seems to be getting a ground swell now that some miles are being put on. Going to order yours and see how it goes. I don't mind these being a wear item, but they should last longer than 4300 miles.

[Roadster Renovations]

I am assuming this will eat up the belt when it goes?
Pisses me off you spend good money on this crap that doesn't last.
This is good news for you Doc. Thanks for the heads up, you will be getting another order shortly from me.

Never good news when a $35 dollar "fix" kills a $500 belt. If they would let me, I could help them come with a better kit than that. (oh, that's right, I'm not a real engineer and just working out of a small garage and not part of a multi million dollar corporation):roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: (irony mode off)

[Bob Denman]

Doc,
Is this what you were thinking; as you were typing? :D


148942

[Bfromla]

That was my guess. Dale
:2thumbs: Mine too however thankfully not needing one on my unaffected ST :coffee: i had to ask to be sure. :p Doubt it would do much in my area anyway sooo many bumps & roadkill :banghead: the belt would not get a chance to build hermonic vibrations.

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc,
Is this what you were thinking; as you were typing? :D


148942

As always, Bob, exactly spot on!

[rick_w]

Never good news when a $35 dollar "fix" kills a $500 belt. If they would let me, I could help them come with a better kit than that. (oh, that's right, I'm not a real engineer and just working out of a small garage and not part of a multi million dollar corporation):roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: (irony mode off)

That happens with a few companies, they do not want to listen to people who use the products.
We just had an issue with the new Grand Pet Palace and having some serious conversations with Kuryakyn.

[Bob Denman]

As always, Bob, exactly spot on!

:D Yo'd be surprised at how many times I want to play that card! :D

[Pat Clark]

Ok, that's enough. I have one on order from the dealer. On the phone cancelling it as we speak.

Pat

[BajaRon]

I refrained from saying anything when these were introduced because I hoped I was wrong and the anticipations were understandably high. Secondly, other than wanting everyone to enjoy their Spyder as much as possible, I have no dog in this race. But I have to say I was very skeptical about the BRP belt tensioner from the beginning.

The belt tensioner takes a great deal of stress and frankly, a good beating with every mile you ride. It never rests. The price point (in my opinion) was way too low for a quality belt tensioner. I was hoping that BRP was simply operating at, or near zero profit on this product to help Spyder customers resolve a problem that (maybe) should have been addressed at the assembly line stage.

But as I heard more about the materials and dimensions of the tensioner, I was thinking that these just could not last.

Not all aftermarket products are priced to make a killing for the seller. Sometimes it just takes a fair amount of money to make a quality, reliable and well designed product that will serve the buyer for a long time. The process to bring this kind of product to market is much more difficult than most imagine. I know it surprised me.

I am sorry that the failure rate on these belt tensioners is rising. Maybe BRP will go back to the drawing board and come back with a better product. Until then, it may well prove to be a better strategy to pay the money and go with aftermarket products.

[T-Mac]

:clap:
Never good news when a $35 dollar "fix" kills a $500 belt. If they would let me, I could help them come with a better kit than that. (oh, that's right, I'm not a real engineer and just working out of a small garage and not part of a multi million dollar corporation):roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: (irony mode off)

[Roadster Renovations]

I refrained from saying anything when these were introduced because I hoped I was wrong and the anticipations were understandably high. Secondly, other than wanting everyone to enjoy their Spyder as much as possible, I have no dog in this race. But I have to say I was very skeptical about the BRP belt tensioner from the beginning.

The belt tensioner takes a great deal of stress and frankly, a good beating with every mile you ride. It never rests. The price point (in my opinion) was way too low for a quality belt tensioner. I was hoping that BRP was simply operating at, or near zero profit on this product to help Spyder customers resolve a problem that (maybe) should have been addressed at the assembly line stage.

But as I heard more about the materials and dimensions of the tensioner, I was thinking that these just could not last.

Not all aftermarket products are priced to make a killing for the seller. Sometimes it just takes a fair amount of money to make a quality, reliable and well designed product that will serve the buyer for a long time. The process to bring this kind of product to market is much more difficult than most imagine. I know it surprised me.

I am sorry that the failure rate on these belt tensioners is rising. Maybe BRP will go back to the drawing board and come back with a better product. Until then, it may well prove to be a better strategy to pay the money and go with aftermarket products.

As always well said, Ron. What has me concerned is that any BRP idler that has been installed by anyone other than the dealer, either RT of F3, could be in really big trouble if their pulley fails. Even though the failure is their product, if you have installed it and it destroys your belt, you will probably be responsible. Those folks that bought the RTBK adapters to use with the BRP kit will most definitely fall into that category. I suggest checking it before each ryde and be vigilant for checking the feel of the byke and any unusual sounds. And carry tools and zip ties to remove enough tupperware to tie up the arm if it does fail.
Not trying to cause panic, but I hate to see a cheap part kill an expensive belt. We are scrambling to have enough kit #1's in stock so that if you want to upgrade you can do so.

BRP has still not called me. Phone number is on the link:
http://dochumphreys.wixsite.com/roadster/contact

[tehrlich]

And another one....

Got about 12K miles on this. Started feeling vibration again, and luckily I check it tonight. It slightly beveled the side of the belt but doesn't look like terrible damage.
166641

[bikerbillone]

Interesting read and video. The BRP tensioner arm looks like black plastic, but maybe metal powder coated or painted black. Whatever, that one small bearing cannot last very long. Think about the rpm's at 50/60/70 mph. No dog in the hunt, jus thinking out loud.

[stevencovert]

Installed mine on my brand new RTS last year, at about 200 miles. Noticed the vibes right away on the highway. For those who haven't bought one, I'd go with Doc's, as it is even easier than the video he has on his site shows. The temp bolt now has an allen wrench socket in it, so no grabbing with pliers (no shavings). Mine was installed in about 45 minutes total. No bad vibes anymore:yes:


Before heading out to Maggie Valley, I inspected my RT thoroughly - now at 9K+ miles. I noticed the belt had a little "shine" on it, so looked at the belt tensioner. It was still solid, perfectly even with the belt, and spun easily with no play on the bearings. Had the mechanics @Maggie Valley that did my Laser Alignment check it, they also said it was fine, they had seen many tensioners and this was normal. He made the comment that the little shine was even across the width of the belt, meaning it was installed properly (go me!). They also had seen several failed ones like your pic :yikes:!



Steve

[Road-Kill]

9,000 is nothing to brag about.
I got 25,000 out of my cheap BRP idler before the spring broke and harmed nothing.
I also have no "shine" which indicates rubbing.
At least with my BRP idler I get both idler AND belt warranty.
My BRP idler is a keeper till the aftermarket can prove theirs lasts longer, reduces vibration more and is warrantied better.

Installed mine on my brand new RTS last year, at about 200 miles. Noticed the vibes right away on the highway. For those who haven't bought one, I'd go with Doc's, as it is even easier than the video he has on his site shows. The temp bolt now has an allen wrench socket in it, so no grabbing with pliers (no shavings). Mine was installed in about 45 minutes total. No bad vibes anymore:yes:


Before heading out to Maggie Valley, I inspected my RT thoroughly - now at 9K+ miles. I noticed the belt had a little "shine" on it, so looked at the belt tensioner. It was still solid, perfectly even with the belt, and spun easily with no play on the bearings. Had the mechanics @Maggie Valley that did my Laser Alignment check it, they also said it was fine, they had seen many tensioners and this was normal. He made the comment that the little shine was even across the width of the belt, meaning it was installed properly (go me!). They also had seen several failed ones like your pic :yikes:!



Steve

[johnsimion]

I know I don't ride as much as some, but I'm well over 3000 miles now on my RT and have yet to notice ANY vibration that I was certain was related to the Spyder and not the road.

It's easy to worry yourself sick over stuff you read in this forum. I myself worried over the possibility of getting a rock stuck in the belt until I ran into problems installing the rock guard and then I did some independent research and found that there is no such issue with Harleys that have the exact same setup, and you know how many Harleys there are. And yes, some Spyders have gotten rocks in the belt but seriously folks, out of the tens of thousands of Spyders on the road, how many? It's almost certainly a tiny percentage, and I suspect it may be very similar with the vibration. It may be real, but how many does it actually affect? At what point is the cure worse than the disease? I wonder how many people have unrealistic expectations about vibration based on what they read in this forum. It's not a car, it's a three-wheeled motorcycle. You have a connection with the road that you don't have in your S-class Mercedes. Some vibrations are to be expected.

It does seem like those who ride a LOT notice things a lot more than I do. For example, I really can't imagine how much better my Spyder would be with one of these anti-vibration doohickeys any more than I'd notice any better handling with a roll bar or ____ brand of tires. I'm not saying anybody is wrong, I'm saying that some of you are such experts that you notice things where others of us would never know the difference. But noobs like me can read this stuff and worry ourselves sick.

Someday I may develop a greater sensitivity to this. Until then, I plan to trust BRP's engineers on the theory that my RT ain't broke so why fix it? In the meantime at least I don't have to worry about my anti-vibration doohickey going bad on me.

[Geep]

So is the BRP issue strictly the bearing/roller? BRP uses a plastic arm vs aluminum that everyone else uses, BRP loves this reinforced plastic design cause it it used on the OEM sway bar links too. I see Lamonster is selling the BRP arm with an upgraded roller assembly at an attractive price, what are the thoughts on this?

[stmike 1800]

I know I don't ride as much as some, but I'm well over 3000 miles now on my RT and have yet to notice ANY vibration that I was certain was related to the Spyder and not the road.

It's easy to worry yourself sick over stuff you read in this forum. I myself worried over the possibility of getting a rock stuck in the belt until I ran into problems installing the rock guard and then I did some independent research and found that there is no such issue with Harleys that have the exact same setup, and you know how many Harleys there are. And yes, some Spyders have gotten rocks in the belt but seriously folks, out of the tens of thousands of Spyders on the road, how many? It's almost certainly a tiny percentage, and I suspect it may be very similar with the vibration. It may be real, but how many does it actually affect? At what point is the cure worse than the disease? I wonder how many people have unrealistic expectations about vibration based on what they read in this forum. It's not a car, it's a three-wheeled motorcycle. You have a connection with the road that you don't have in your S-class Mercedes. Some vibrations are to be expected.

It does seem like those who ride a LOT notice things a lot more than I do. For example, I really can't imagine how much better my Spyder would be with one of these anti-vibration doohickeys any more than I'd notice any better handling with a roll bar or ____ brand of tires. I'm not saying anybody is wrong, I'm saying that some of you are such experts that you notice things where others of us would never know the difference. But

noobs like me can read this stuff and worry ourselves sick.

Someday I may develop a greater sensitivity to this. Until then, I plan to trust BRP's engineers on the theory that my RT ain't broke so why fix it? In the meantime at least I don't have to worry about my anti-vibration doohickey going bad on me.


You should of taken my RT for a ride ,you would of felt the vibration for sure . Mine at 130 to 140 kph felt like the belt was about to explode .

[Batmobil-F3]

I didn't have any vibrations with my F3-S either. After changing the rear wheel I unfortunately had slight vibrations. If the belt is set up correctly, there should be no vibrations.

[Rick H.]

As an observer only at this point I can see no negatives to installing a drive belt idler pulley except if they aren't installed properly, or if they fail and damage another component. What I wonder about is can an idler pulley mask another potential problem that is happening? If so then the idler pulley could be a bad thing. I think there is one benefit to the idler pulley that I haven't see addressed much, if at all. The addition of a spring loaded idler pulley should help keep the toothed belt positioned so that the teeth fully engage the drive and driven pulleys. I had this problem long ago on a few of the first belt driven Harleys I owned but the only "fix" was to make sure the belt was adjusted properly back then. So in my estimation I would think that the addition of a spring loaded idler pulley couldn't hurt anything as long as it doesn't fail and as long as it doesn't mask or coverup another ensuing problem and is adjusted correctly.

Rick H.

[Road-Kill]

There is nothing wrong with the BRP idler.
Remember, you are being fed a steady diet of fear by those who are selling their products.
The plastic arm is not what's failing, its the spring.
All brands sell replacement parts and will all eventually fail so keep an eye on them.

So is the BRP issue strictly the bearing/roller? BRP uses a plastic arm vs aluminum that everyone else uses, BRP loves this reinforced plastic design cause it it used on the OEM sway bar links too. I see Lamonster is selling the BRP arm with an upgraded roller assembly at an attractive price, what are the thoughts on this?
All Spyders have some vibrations due to the extreme length of the belt.
You "might" have an unbalanced rear tire or finally noticed the vibration issue.

I didn't have any vibrations with my F3-S either. After changing the rear wheel I unfortunately had slight vibrations. If the belt is set up correctly, there should be no vibrations.
The idler does NOT keep the belt teeth on the sprocket because it not only works fine without it....its also VERY un-tensioned to begin with. You can lift the idler off your belt with your pinky finger. My Harley, like yours, is half the length of the Spyders and why you never experienced the vibration issue.

As an observer only at this point I can see no negatives to installing a drive belt idler pulley except if they aren't installed properly, or if they fail and damage another component. What I wonder about is can an idler pulley mask another potential problem that is happening? If so then the idler pulley could be a bad thing. I think there is one benefit to the idler pulley that I haven't see addressed much, if at all. The addition of a spring loaded idler pulley should help keep the toothed belt positioned so that the teeth fully engage the drive and driven pulleys. I had this problem long ago on a few of the first belt driven Harleys I owned but the only "fix" was to make sure the belt was adjusted properly back then. So in my estimation I would think that the addition of a spring loaded idler pulley couldn't hurt anything as long as it doesn't fail and as long as it doesn't mask or coverup another ensuing problem and is adjusted correctly.

Rick H.

[cdakers]

Two widely differing opinions offered in this thread. Nice to see we can agree to disagree.

My opinion is that the BRP product is junk, and my choice is to us Doc's well built, fairly priced solution. :)

[DavidJS]

I see Lamonster is selling the BRP arm with an upgraded roller assembly at an attractive price, what are the thoughts on this?

Like Geep, I’m curious about the Lamonster tensioner. Any thoughts on that one?

David

[2dogs]

I refrained from saying anything when these were introduced because I hoped I was wrong and the anticipations were understandably high. Secondly, other than wanting everyone to enjoy their Spyder as much as possible, I have no dog in this race. But I have to say I was very skeptical about the BRP belt tensioner from the beginning.

The belt tensioner takes a great deal of stress and frankly, a good beating with every mile you ride. It never rests. The price point (in my opinion) was way too low for a quality belt tensioner. I was hoping that BRP was simply operating at, or near zero profit on this product to help Spyder customers resolve a problem that (maybe) should have been addressed at the assembly line stage.

But as I heard more about the materials and dimensions of the tensioner, I was thinking that these just could not last.

Not all aftermarket products are priced to make a killing for the seller. Sometimes it just takes a fair amount of money to make a quality, reliable and well designed product that will serve the buyer for a long time. The process to bring this kind of product to market is much more difficult than most imagine. I know it surprised me.

I am sorry that the failure rate on these belt tensioners is rising. Maybe BRP will go back to the drawing board and come back with a better product. Until then, it may well prove to be a better strategy to pay the money and go with aftermarket products.

I ordered BRP's idler after I first saw it. What a mistake. After I received the thing and had it in my hands I instantly knew better than to install it. It is a resounding example of BRP's knee jerk response to a horribly and overly ignored customer complaint. I still have the idler, brand new, sitting in my parts drawer and it free to anyone who wants it. Just pay shipping and it's yours. PM me if you want it.

[Road-Kill]

I believe Lamonster uses the plastic BRP arm with his own larger roller.nojoke
This is hilarious because some here are saying the plastic arm is crap and Lamonster owns this website:popcorn:

People will bash BRPs idler but not Lamonsters and not give any reason why.:firstplace:

Like Geep, I’m curious about the Lamonster tensioner. Any thoughts on that one?

David

[tehrlich]

I could easily feel the difference with the BRP belt tensioner. I felt the belt vibrate right about 4100 RPM's consistently. Once it was on, I barely felt it. I forgot about it actually until I felt it again this weekend. Thank goodness I realized what was happening. It would have disastrous on the belt.

As the picture above shows, you can see the failure. What I think happened.... the wheel bearing melted and came off. Then the "axle" of it laid on the belt which rubbed it smooth and melted the plastic arm. It slightly beveled the outside of my belt. (not terribly). Then, it sprung under the belt.

[bikerbillone]

Egads, I just don't understand the 'under engineering' of this belt pensioner. Surely BRP has recognized this problem??????

[SpyderSkeets]

And another one....

Got about 12K miles on this. Started feeling vibration again, and luckily I check it tonight. It slightly beveled the side of the belt but doesn't look like terrible damage.
166641



Sorry, but I wouldn't consider a $35 part failing after 12k miles a complete failure of the BRP one.

Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones. I have about 10k miles on my BRP tensioner and if it fails now, I will consider it money well spent. I find it hard to believe that some of these fail rather quickly and some (like mine) last. I'm not questioning anyone's mechanical abilities and I am certainly no expert mechanic, but my experience has shown that some failures (not only this, but in all aspects of mechanics) are a result of incorrect installation (not tightening the bolts? Not lining up the roller with the belt?) and then being quick to call it a production deficit.
As happy as I have been with the BRP one, I did recently order the one from Roadster Renovations...I should have it by this Wednesday. Why? Because I am aware that these are a wear item and it will eventually go and maybe I am wrong and I was indeed lucky and it had nothing to do with proper installation.and got a good one and the next one may be one of the junk ones.

[tehrlich]

Sorry, but I wouldn't consider a $35 part failing after 12k miles a complete failure of the BRP one.

Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones. I have about 10k miles on my BRP tensioner and if it fails now, I will consider it money well spent. I find it hard to believe that some of these fail rather quickly and some (like mine) last. I'm not questioning anyone's mechanical abilities and I am certainly no expert mechanic, but my experience has shown that some failures (not only this, but in all aspects of mechanics) are a result of incorrect installation (not tightening the bolts? Not lining up the roller with the belt?) and then being quick to call it a production deficit.
As happy as I have been with the BRP one, I did recently order the one from Roadster Renovations...I should have it by this Wednesday. Why? Because I am aware that these are a wear item and it will eventually go and maybe I am wrong and I was indeed lucky and it had nothing to do with proper installation.and got a good one and the next one may be one of the junk ones.

I understand what you are saying, but they are putting a cheap part in a situation that works so hard 100% of the time. Then, it is when it fails that becomes the problem: damaged belt. Luckily I knew it before it was bad.

[RudyB]

:hun::dontknow: Please clue in the clueless:coffee::2thumbs:
The picture tells the story looks like another cheap BRP belt tensioner bit the dust

[zuni]

Mine made it to 11K. Hasn't fallen apart but you can see the roller is canted so I zip tied it out of the way. Weighing getting Lamont's replacement roller. If Roadkill got 25k out of his spring that would give me time to source another.

CJ JAX



Sorry, but I wouldn't consider a $35 part failing after 12k miles a complete failure of the BRP one.

Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones. I have about 10k miles on my BRP tensioner and if it fails now, I will consider it money well spent. I find it hard to believe that some of these fail rather quickly and some (like mine) last. I'm not questioning anyone's mechanical abilities and I am certainly no expert mechanic, but my experience has shown that some failures (not only this, but in all aspects of mechanics) are a result of incorrect installation (not tightening the bolts? Not lining up the roller with the belt?) and then being quick to call it a production deficit.
As happy as I have been with the BRP one, I did recently order the one from Roadster Renovations...I should have it by this Wednesday. Why? Because I am aware that these are a wear item and it will eventually go and maybe I am wrong and I was indeed lucky and it had nothing to do with proper installation.and got a good one and the next one may be one of the junk ones.

[bikerbillone]

Sorry, but I wouldn't consider a $35 part failing after 12k miles a complete failure of the BRP one.

Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones. I have about 10k miles on my BRP tensioner and if it fails now, I will consider it money well spent. I find it hard to believe that some of these fail rather quickly and some (like mine) last. I'm not questioning anyone's mechanical abilities and I am certainly no expert mechanic, but my experience has shown that some failures (not only this, but in all aspects of mechanics) are a result of incorrect installation (not tightening the bolts? Not lining up the roller with the belt?) and then being quick to call it a production deficit.
As happy as I have been with the BRP one, I did recently order the one from Roadster Renovations...I should have it by this Wednesday. Why? Because I am aware that these are a wear item and it will eventually go and maybe I am wrong and I was indeed lucky and it had nothing to do with proper installation.and got a good one and the next one may be one of the junk ones.

Thought comes to mind, why didn't you buy a spare OEM belt tensioner from BRP?

[SpyderSkeets]

Thought comes to mind, why didn't you buy a spare OEM belt tensioner from BRP?


Good question.
When I first heard about these belt tensioners, I really didnt know how much of an improvement they would be, and didnt want to spend more money than needed only to find out that it doesnt make THAT much of an improvement. However, in my opinion, the improvement is great and would not want to go without one.
Like I said, maybe I was one of the lucky ones and got a good OEM one. However, they are still known to have issues and I might not be so lucky with the second one.
The Roadster Renovations one is "only" $100 more and the opinions on it are very favorable so, I'd rather pay that extra $100 for peace of mind. I did receive my RR one yesterday and the construction of it is vastly superior to the OEM one, but have not had a chance to install it yet to see if it functions better than, or at least the same as, the OEM one

[bikerbillone]

Good response, makes sense. My thoughts with any weak link in the chain, is getting out in somewhere land and the weak link fails, then that really ruins the day.