Aggressive riding in the curves question

[nealperkins]

Well, sort of aggressive as I'm a new Spyder rider (600 miles worth). So, we have lots of neat curves here in the mountains just begging for some nice riding. My question is what are the signs that you are beginning to push things too far, by accident or whatever. That would be other than running off the road or turning the Spyder over...In fact, would is skid before it turned over, etc.

[Ranman42]

Not sure what model you have, but if you go into a curve too aggressive the on board computer nannies will shut you down. Wheel up , too much spin. I set mine off crossing a flooded road and it interpeted it as a complete loss of traction.

[PrairieSpyder]

When you can't stay in the right lane on the curve - crossing into the on-coming lane. Unless you have a Daytona Spyder, Nanny will put you down onto the road before you can turn over. For many of us, the game is to see how fast you can take a curve before Nanny kick in. So you won't know where that point is until it actually happens.

I love to challenge Nanny. I haven't found her yet on my F3T.

[nealperkins]

I should have identified the model. It's a 2016 F3L. OK, the nanny cuts the gas, but that might not be enough to keep you on the road?? Is there some 'early warning' behavior or noise?

[PrairieSpyder]

The only way that wouldn't be enough is on loose gravel, ice or hydroplaning - or going over a cliff!

[Chupaca]

But the nanny also has more control on the brakes than you do..:lecturef_smilie: she will apply the brakes not cut the gas or retard the ignition whichever needed to get you safe...annoying at times but great when your losing it. If your good or getting there you may be able to double the posted speed for turns and you can fool the nanny some but in my opinion she does a good jkob on the RS/GS and RSS. May be different on the RT and F3...:dontknow:

[JayBros]

Out in our mountains not too long ago I had a closer than fun encounter with a cage that came across the double yellow in a curve. I was well in my lane, not drifting outward in my right turn direction but had to quickly tighten my turn at speed and Nanny smoked my left front tire.

[wyliec]

I rely on my self preservation. If it feels like I riding near or over my limits, I'll downshift or tap the brakes. I have a GS.

I always wonder when someone says that you can usually double the speed signage given for a curve. I've been on curves posted for 50 mph, does that mean the spyder can take it safely at 100 mph?

[Fat Baxter]

I've always wondered: has anyone actually flipped a Spyder in a too-hard turn? (Aside from running off the road first, then flipping in the rough stuff.) If it's technically impossible to flip a Spyder, I think that would be a good marketing point.

Of course, that presumes you have the courage to hang in there and not lose it in a curve -- keep those handlebars cranked over! I occasionally push it in a turn, and am surprised with what the Spyder can do.

I liken Spyder riding to snow skiing: you have to trust your equipment.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

Not sure what model you have, but if you go into a curve too aggressive the on board computer nannies will shut you down. Wheel up , too much spin. I set mine off crossing a flooded road and it interpeted it as a complete loss of traction.

The Nanny is a good point of reference unless you have car tires on the front. With the stiffer sidewalls, you can pull a lot more G's on turns than the Nanny is comfortable with, and she can interject even when there are no problems with your speed and angle into the turns. Since putting Federal Evo's on the fronts of Cocaine, I feel the Nanny way more than I used to with the Kendas, even though I have taken a good smooth line through the turn. I am very aggressive on turns and hardly ever felt Nannies presence in the turns until I got the Evo's.

[kep-up]

Do your braking and downshifting before the turn, then twist the grip through the turn. Nannie is not quite sure what is happening at that point. If you are slowing into the turn, she understands that you have no idea what your are doing, and will take over the braking duties.

[Bob Denman]

Devil's Advocate here... :shocked:
If you're going to try and push it THAT hard in the twisties: you bought the wrong bike! nojoke

[blacklightning]

The Nanny is a good point of reference unless you have car tires on the front. With the stiffer sidewalls, you can pull a lot more G's on turns than the Nanny is comfortable with, and she can interject even when there are no problems with your speed and angle into the turns. Since putting Federal Evo's on the fronts of Cocaine, I feel the Nanny way more than I used to with the Kendas, even though I have taken a good smooth line through the turn. I am very aggressive on turns and hardly ever felt Nannies presence in the turns until I got the Evo's.
:agree: I agree with this guy. We had the same type of bike (1330 with the 6 speed manual), and both push them very hard. If and when the nanny kicks in on us, it normally means that you are about to get into trouble. If you keep a smooth line, and are good with your gas and braking points, you can push these things really hard. I just sold my RT and picked up a F3T, and I can hardly wait to get back up into your area (Boone) to ride again. I will possibly be making a day trip from the Raleigh area so that I can ride the BRP, Diamondback, and Devil's Whip before doing our annual mountain trip vacation this June. Hopefully you will be able to meet and join us.

[kep-up]

I forgot to mention that a bit of body English is also helpful.

[MisterP]

I rely on my self preservation. If it feels like I riding near or over my limits, I'll downshift or tap the brakes. I have a GS.

I always wonder when someone says that you can usually double the speed signage given for a curve. I've been on curves posted for 50 mph, does that mean the spyder can take it safely at 100 mph?

I normally take curves at the posted speed plus 10.

[ARtraveler]

Well, sort of aggressive as I'm a new Spyder rider (600 miles worth). So, we have lots of neat curves here in the mountains just begging for some nice riding. My question is what are the signs that you are beginning to push things too far, by accident or whatever. That would be other than running off the road or turning the Spyder over...In fact, would is skid before it turned over, etc.

Your the third person asking similar today. Sure signs your overdoing it:

:ani29:: The nanny kicks in
:ani29:: Your crossing the center lines

Attached is some additional information about cornering and twisties that I posted in another thread.

Information that I have posted a few times concerning "the death grip."

Pretend that there are eggs between your hands and the grips. Don't break the eggs. Use more of a gentle push/pull on the handgrips. Steer INTO the turn. Countersteering does not work on :spyder2::spyder:,s.

On tight turns, you should enter the turn at such a speed that you can accelerate as your enter. I enter from the inside of the curve and track to the outside. I do not touch any of the center lines. If there is extra room on the right, I use it. More straight = less "g" forces.

Leaning "slightly" into the curve and planting the outside foot will result hardly any "g" forces. I can do curves at 20+ posted without going over the center line, and the :ani29: feels like its on a track. Most of the time I am comfortable with +10. :thumbup::thumbup:

Make sure your passenger leans the same as you do. Hope you find this helpful so you do not raise any of the warning signs above.

[PistonBlown]

There is a great deal of fun to be had trying to push a Spyder to the limit - though some models are better suited than others (I still maintain the GS/RS's are the best for that:-)) Nanny actually adds to that fun as you're always trying to not let her take over but at the same time you know if you do overdo it she's there for you.

With stock tires on I found you can push them until either the rear tire starts to slide, or if very tight corners you can slide the fronts (easier with a non-stock rear tire). In both cases Nanny will step in but if you've managed to do this then you've avoided her spoiling the fun until you've hit the limits of the tires:-) You'll also find the inside front tire will get light on fast bends but as long as you move your weight around to keep it kissing the surface nanny will leave you alone.

Cornering is quite different to a bike and takes a bit of refining to get right. You brake later but have a slower exit speed. Getting the right line is more important - partly because you have less space to play with but also changes may cause nanny to step in. Front end setup is much more important on a Spyder than other vehicles and quite minor changes can have a marked affect.

If you go into a corner well beyond the speed you could possibly get around it then you will end up in trouble. Nanny will not fix stupid.

However if you just hit a corner a bit too enthusiastically then nanny will help you get around safely. One huge advantage with having three wheels and nanny is that you can even brake in the bend if you need to.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

I forgot to mention that a bit of body English is also helpful.

:agree: When I am really trying I usually only have half my a$& on the seat. Other than that, I just lean.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

:agree: I agree with this guy. We had the same type of bike (1330 with the 6 speed manual), and both push them very hard. If and when the nanny kicks in on us, it normally means that you are about to get into trouble. If you keep a smooth line, and are good with your gas and braking points, you can push these things really hard. I just sold my RT and picked up a F3T, and I can hardly wait to get back up into your area (Boone) to ride again. I will possibly be making a day trip from the Raleigh area so that I can ride the BRP, Diamondback, and Devil's Whip before doing our annual mountain trip vacation this June. Hopefully you will be able to meet and join us.

Let me know when and I should be there. Looking forward to riding with you again, especially now since you got the F3T. Its a pleasure riding with someone who pushes these machines.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

I've always wondered: has anyone actually flipped a Spyder in a too-hard turn? (Aside from running off the road first, then flipping in the rough stuff.) If it's technically impossible to flip a Spyder, I think that would be a good marketing point.

Of course, that presumes you have the courage to hang in there and not lose it in a curve -- keep those handlebars cranked over! I occasionally push it in a turn, and am surprised with what the Spyder can do.

I liken Spyder riding to snow skiing: you have to trust your equipment.

I recently was pushing Cocaine in a turn. I had just put my Federal Evos on and I had been doing 35 and 40 mph over the speed limit in most turns. I decided to hit a 35 mph turn doing 80. It was a flat turn and I didnt dive down to the center line quite as close as I wanted. I kept my speed up since she was really running tight that afternoon. I was trying to keep steady pressure on the bars to turn but apparently 45 over was a bit too much for that turn. Cocaine finally broke loose and I got sideways with the tires squeeling and smoking. I guess if I didnt turn over then, it probably wont ever happen. 🤞

[loisk]

Well, sort of aggressive as I'm a new Spyder rider (600 miles worth). So, we have lots of neat curves here in the mountains just begging for some nice riding. My question is what are the signs that you are beginning to push things too far, by accident or whatever. That would be other than running off the road or turning the Spyder over...In fact, would is skid before it turned over, etc.

All good explanations of the when, what, how and why.

I found out what it "feels" like
taking a bend a bit hot, quite safely, suddenly it was like an invisible hand had held up a stop sign and was slowing me down. Hmm. After a second, all ok. So the next time I was at the same bend I replicated the invisible hand - happened as before. All good - the nanny is doing its job. Oh I take that bend a little slower now or, more exactly, I wait an extra millisecond before giving it the gas.

Same as on two wheels "look bike, go bike" - you can trust the nanny.

[WellsboroSpyder]

We both stress at work. For us going on a Spyder ride is time for relaxation, not wondering if this is the time the nanny doesn't work. We have ridden many roads that weve been on before, and it always amazes us of the sights that we missed in our cage. For us it's about living in our environment not seeing how fast we can get through it. Just my two cents.

[kep-up]

I recently was pushing Cocaine in a turn. I had just put my Federal Evos on and I had been doing 35 and 40 mph over the speed limit in most turns. I decided to hit a 35 mph turn doing 80. It was a flat turn and I didnt dive down to the center line quite as close as I wanted. I kept my speed up since she was really running tight that afternoon. I was trying to keep steady pressure on the bars to turn but apparently 45 over was a bit too much for that turn. Cocaine finally broke loose and I got sideways with the tires squeeling and smoking. I guess if I didnt turn over then, it probably wont ever happen. 🤞

35 to 40 over the posted recommendation? REALLY? On an RT? I need to learn your set-up! :bowdown:

[wyliec]

Maybe I don't quite understand a few things. Am I reading the posts correctly when you are basically saying you can hit a curve as fast as you want; there's no chance of going off the road because the nanny protects you in all instances? The second thing is what is a turn versus a curve. To me a turn is typically 90 degrees or less, what you normally find on city streets. So, when someone mentions double the posted speed in a turn, are you actually in a curve? If it's a curve, then I can understand hitting it at double the posted speed, depending on the curve, like a wide sweeper. I'm actually not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but when you are giving advice to someone who is new to the spyder, he/she may not know the type curve/turn you are talking about.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff. What I do use is my body. I am either leaning pretty good or hanging off the side of the bike. That and my desire to go as fast as I can using the best cornering techniques that I can. I dont use the nanny as a fail safe to save my butt. My goal is to not have her make an appearance. I usually meet that goal. And I am not advising new riders to try this. Ive been riding 2 1/2 years on a Spyder and I am still learning. As they say, dont try this at home folks. Do what you are comfortable doing, not what others say they do.

As far as the definition of turns is concerned, I aint riding city streets at 35 or 40 mph over the speed limit. Im talking country roads, but not wide sweepers. Anyone can ride a wide sweeper 30 or 35 over the limit. But when I am really feeling "it", I will pull a 35 or 40 mph turn at 40 over. 40 over seems to be my limit currently. I will have half my butt off the bike, leaning out as far as I can. I dont do it all the time but I am generally going 30 over. I have been called crazy by my friends for the way I sometimes ride, but I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or dont believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.
:yes::yes:
Funny thing is, when Pebbles is on board, I am happy doing 5 or 10 over the limit so she is comfortable. I just want to ride.

[monkeyboymorton]

taking a bend a bit hot, quite safely, suddenly it was like an invisible hand had held up a stop sign and was slowing me down.

That's my main experience of the VSC kicking in, the invisible hand sums it up prefectly. Hard accelerations from 30mph+ with any steering angle on will cause a kind of 'pause' in the power delivery. I thought there was a flat spot in the power band until I realised it was the VSC stopping me lighting up the rear tire and getting oversteer. I'm more than happy for it to help out there and feel no need for the ability to turn it off as in the 2017 models.

As for the VSC activating the brakes in corners I've never really noticed that. I try and drive as smoothly as possible and not put sudden steering movements in that would spook the system.

The main thing I've noticed with the handling is how it will understeer horribly if you come off the power while cornering. Especially in off camber corners. The change in yaw you can achieve by just applying and removing power is surprising, and that's without any wheelspin.

I find it corners best with a mid throttle position and then open up the throttle as you're coming out of the turn. That's the most enjoyable way to ride it IMO.

[Bob Denman]

35 to 40 over the posted recommendation? REALLY? On an RT? I need to learn your set-up! :bowdown:
It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike... :shocked:

147764

[blacklightning]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff.
I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or don't believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.
That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying.":joke:

[Bob Denman]

The 1330 RTs handle way better than the older bikes. :thumbup:
I would always suggest riding one for a while, before giving BajaRon a call... nojoke

[PrairieSpyder]

Speed limits? :dontknow: They have speed limits on curves? :dontknow::dontknow:

[Bob Denman]

Speed limits? :dontknow: They have speed limits on curves? :dontknow::dontknow:
I think that it's more of a "Law", than just a "Speed Limit"... :D

The Law of physics! nojoke

[jaherbst]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".

I don't ever want to find my absolute limitation, by then it's too late! :D

Jack

[Bob Denman]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".
:agree:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike... :shocked:

147764

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

[Bob Denman]

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

I like "Doin' the Dew" too! :roflblack: :2thumbs:

[ARtraveler]

Back in post #16 I posted what I believe is conservative information for safe riding of twisties. I went back and highlighted that +20 is doable but I am more comfortable with +10 on posted curves.

Keep safe out there and ride the ride that you are in control with. Exceeding that place can cause injuries to self as well as others. On one of our last MC group rides with the club, we watched a lady go over the center line many times on the Old Glenn Highway--full of tight twisties--we decided it was time to leave the group. We went to the back of the pack that night in order to stay out of trouble. Fortunately, there was none.

Lecture Button: OFF

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying.":joke:

Unfortunately, most people die living. Life can be so routine. The everyday routine of work, eat, sleep, repeat. Thats why I love doing things to give myself a kick in the butt. Right now, my Spyder on a twisty road is my kick. And if I overcook a turn but make it out in one piece, it is a heck of a kick. But definitely not for everyone. Thats why I am looking forward to riding with you Keith. You on your F3T, which should be better for you, and me on my RT, with my better tires. Both of us pushing the limits.
Hope everyone just rides within their limits. Stay safe out there people. Peace

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

Clint Eastwood,
"A Man's gotta know his own Limitations".

I don't ever want to find my absolute limitation, by then it's too late! :D

Jack

True dat. A man has got to know his limitations, but if I dont push it, how will I find what my limitations are? I gotta find that fine line and ride on the edge. Hopefully I know right before I am about to cross over so I can reign it back in.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

Back in post #16 I posted what I believe is conservative information for safe riding of twisties. I went back and highlighted that +20 is doable but I am more comfortable with +10 on posted curves.

Keep safe out there and ride the ride that you are in control with. Exceeding that place can cause injuries to self as well as others. On one of our last MC group rides with the club, we watched a lady go over the center line many times on the Old Glenn Highway--full of tight twisties--we decided it was time to leave the group. We went to the back of the pack that night in order to stay out of trouble. Fortunately, there was none.

Lecture Button: OFF

Aint a lecture, thats good common sense.

[BajaRon]

Maybe I don't quite understand a few things. Am I reading the posts correctly when you are basically saying you can hit a curve as fast as you want; there's no chance of going off the road because the nanny protects you in all instances? The second thing is what is a turn versus a curve. To me a turn is typically 90 degrees or less, what you normally find on city streets. So, when someone mentions double the posted speed in a turn, are you actually in a curve? If it's a curve, then I can understand hitting it at double the posted speed, depending on the curve, like a wide sweeper. I'm actually not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but when you are giving advice to someone who is new to the spyder, he/she may not know the type curve/turn you are talking about.

It is doubtful that the Nanny can save you from all situations. If you completely throw caution to the wind or deliberately try to exceed both yours and the Spyder's capabilities I'd say you would be able to overwhelm the Nanny. There has to be some level of interest in self preservation involved for the Nanny to function successfully in every situation.

What performance modifications do for the Spyder is increase traction at all 3 wheels. This helps to give the driver greater control in curves, when pushed around in strong cross winds or gusts, and when passing large trucks at freeway speeds. Suspension improvements also reduce lean and dive which helps maintain correct steering alignment. Alignment changes as the suspension flexes. The more movement you get in the suspension, the greater the change in alignment. Typically, a stock Spyder will need steering correction in the curve as the suspension loads and unloads. This causes an over-steer, under-steer oscillation. Ideally, as long as the parameters within a curve do not change, you should be able to enter the curve with a set steering angle and have no need to make any steering adjustments as you power through and out of the turn.

If a parameter within the curve does change, (angle, radius, camber, crown, etc.) these performance modifications will greatly lessen the effect to both the Spyder and the rider.

You do not have to be going over a reasonable speed in a curve to realize the benefits (though the effect of performance components will increase as you increase the relative speed).

I have had some customers tell me that (after riding with their suspension upgrades for some time) they don't think the sway bar and or spring adjusters are working as well as they did in the beginning. I always encourage them to ride a Spyder that does not have these components installed. While not all of them can do this. Some who have done this said they almost went into the ditch riding as they normally do on a friends Spyder. These are not my words. And these have always been unsolicited feedback. Now, when I tell someone to try an unmodified Spyder for comparison. I always warn them to take it easy at first.

When you get used to the handling benefits of a performance suspension, you can get the feeling that they have gone away. When in reality, it is just the driver getting used to the added capabilities and losing sight of how it used to be.

Is the Spyder unsafe stock? Absolutely not! I have never, nor will I ever say that because it is not true. Can the Spyder suspension and handling be improved significantly? I think the record shows that yes, it can. Some believe that you have to be an Evel Knievel to appreciate the improved handling. But this is not true. The great majority of my customers are not interested in being the fastest Spyder in the twisties. But they do appreciate what an improved suspension will do for every day riders.

Of course the debate will continue and I do not expect my ramblings to end it. But I do like to bring the debate back to an established foundation if I can.

And yes, I agree. A 'Turn' is something that you usually need to stop for before continuing through a 90 degree maneuver. A 'Curve' is something that occurs when the roadway changes direction at speed.

[Peteoz]

Yes, Ron......I bought the Bajaron stabiliser bar as I felt uncomfortable both cornering and riding on narrow cambered roads, at the speed limit. There was no way I would consider trying them at a speed faster than the advisory signs. The bar cured that feeling instantaneously for me, and meant that I had far more control and if I crept over the posted speed a "bit", I retained that feeling of confidence. It made riding the Spyder even more fun......and as for the Kuhmos, well :ohyea::D

Pete

[IGETAROUND]

To the OP: might want to take your bike to a BIG parking lot and find out what your nanny feels like. Just a tad safer way to experience pushing the limits than on mountain roads. FWIW and double back what you paid for it!!

[kngfsh27]

I had Ron's sway bar and shock adjusters. Last year I went up into South Dakota. I knew that I had really pushed it on my '14 RTL when the morning after I got home both front tires were flat. After that, my wife was not comfortable with it . It was a great ride. Yes it was. I never had the nanny kick in.

[Navy Warrant]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff. What I do use is my body. I am either leaning pretty good or hanging off the side of the bike. That and my desire to go as fast as I can using the best cornering techniques that I can. I dont use the nanny as a fail safe to save my butt. My goal is to not have her make an appearance. I usually meet that goal. And I am not advising new riders to try this. Ive been riding 2 1/2 years on a Spyder and I am still learning. As they say, dont try this at home folks. Do what you are comfortable doing, not what others say they do.

As far as the definition of turns is concerned, I aint riding city streets at 35 or 40 mph over the speed limit. Im talking country roads, but not wide sweepers. Anyone can ride a wide sweeper 30 or 35 over the limit. But when I am really feeling "it", I will pull a 35 or 40 mph turn at 40 over. 40 over seems to be my limit currently. I will have half my butt off the bike, leaning out as far as I can. I dont do it all the time but I am generally going 30 over. I have been called crazy by my friends for the way I sometimes ride, but I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or dont believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.
:yes::yes:
Funny thing is, when Pebbles is on board, I am happy doing 5 or 10 over the limit so she is comfortable. I just want to ride.

There are a lot of adrenaline junkies out there. My experience is that each level gets old pretty quick, and more adrenaline is desired so more limits get pushed until the line finally gets crossed. I hope you ryde safe for your sake and the sake of those who share those same roads. Would hate to read your obit here.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

There are a lot of adrenaline junkies out there. My experience is that each level gets old pretty quick, and more adrenaline is desired so more limits get pushed until the line finally gets crossed. I hope you ryde safe for your sake and the sake of those who share those same roads. Would hate to read your obit here.

Yes, I am an adrenaline junkie but I do not ride like this all the time. Cant do it when people are in front of me, and I don't do it when there is a lot of traffic on the other side of the road, cuz you never know what they are gonna do. I also don't do 40 over the speed limit on turns that I cant see around. If the road has been either cut into rock outcroppings, or built around them and block the view of the road, (like the Dragon or the Devils Whip)I am usually around 20 or 25 over. But if the road doesn't have anything blocking the view, I am pushing it as hard as I can.
I don't have a death wish, I have a life wish. My bike is my drug and I partake in the adrenaline as much as I can. Its good for this old man. But I appreciate the concern.

[Bob Denman]

"Adrenaline Junkies"??? :shocked:
Try not telling your Missus about all of the Farkle Money that you've spent, and have her figure it all out on her own! :yikes:
1. It doesn't put anyone else in danger
2. It is WAYYYYYY.... more dangerous than riding any motorcycle! nojoke

[Spin]

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying.":joke:

Before I purchased my RT last month, and after spending hours reading threads on this site, I was sure I was going to get a laser alignment and a BajaRon sway bar. Now that I have put some miles on it I really don't think I need the alignment, and while I'm sure the sway bar will help, I don't think I need that either. In my opinion, this bike stock out of the box tracks well and handles fine!

[ruseman]

But the nanny also has more control on the brakes than you do..:lecturef_smilie: she will apply the brakes not cut the gas or retard the ignition whichever needed to get you safe...annoying at times but great when your losing it. If your good or getting there you may be able to double the posted speed for turns and you can fool the nanny some but in my opinion she does a good jkob on the RS/GS and RSS. May be different on the RT and F3...:dontknow:

I have 2013 RTS SE5 and while I understand the need for the "parental" controls, to me the cutting of the engine is pretty frustrating. I am wondering if you have a manual transmission with a clutch to feather, can you actually minimize the effects? I am not talking about trying to fly through a corner too fast, only about coming out of a curve or a turn harder. My semi-automatic experiences a fair amount of lag.

[Bob Denman]

Having a clutch probably wouldn't work any better...
As you try to "feather the clutch": she'll probably just chop the throttle. nojoke
(In an attempt to prevent you from over-revving the engine. :banghead:)

[blacklightning]

I have 2013 RTS SE5 and while I understand the need for the "parental" controls, to me the cutting of the engine is pretty frustrating. I am wondering if you have a manual transmission with a clutch to feather, can you actually minimize the effects? I am not talking about trying to fly through a corner too fast, only about coming out of a curve or a turn harder. My semi-automatic experiences a fair amount of lag.
On my 2014 RT SM6, I only recall my acceleration being cut down when I had wheel spin and was going sideways (like doing a burn out or something). But I have often felt the brakes being applied in a curve while I was actually still accelerating and trying to encourage the bike to go faster. I have never had the nanny kick in, where it wasn't needed. Nearly each and every time that the nanny kicked in, I thought "wow, I was glad that was there to save me.".

[Zip]

Nanny tapped my brakes twice on really tight turns

[BajaRon]

I have 2013 RTS SE5 and while I understand the need for the "parental" controls, to me the cutting of the engine is pretty frustrating. I am wondering if you have a manual transmission with a clutch to feather, can you actually minimize the effects? I am not talking about trying to fly through a corner too fast, only about coming out of a curve or a turn harder. My semi-automatic experiences a fair amount of lag.

Bob is right. Having a manual clutch doesn't help. There is no 'Get Out of Jail Free' card with the Nanny in any configuration. Upgrading the suspension will quiet the Nanny quite a bit though. More control to the driver means less need for the Nanny to intervene.

[Bob Denman]

:agree: upgrade your suspension, and learn to be s m o o t h e through the corners. :2thumbs:

[blacklightning]

:agree: upgrade your suspension, and learn to be s m o o t h e through the corners. :2thumbs:
Better suspension may make a good driver better, but it is not a cure all for non riders.

[asp125]

A smooth rider can carry more corner speed than one who's rough without invoking Nanny (or as I call it, the "act your age" feature). I've gone through curves at sport bike speeds usually without drama. I lifted the inside front wheel about 6" off the pavement once, and Nanny slapped me hard; "act your age!".

And you don't have to be a speed demon either. Going into a corner that unexpectedly tightens up, or having to swerve to avoid a dog, normal driving situations can invoke Nanny especially if you're ham handed.

But trusting technology to save your from true idiocy is a fallacy, because no matter how good, you can't argue with physics.

[BajaRon]

:agree: upgrade your suspension, and learn to be s m o o t h e through the corners. :2thumbs:

Absolutely! Hard parts can improve how the Spyder handles. But the rider is still the most important component of all. Upgrades cannot fully compensate for bad driving habits. Nor should any on board computer be expected to bail you out of every situation. Take control of your ride and ride it correctly. Everything will go much better if you do. Whether you ever add a suspension upgrade or not.

Regardless of how you ride, you should lean and practice proper approach angle, braking, leaning, steering, apex and acceleration out of a curve. Even if you do not need this skill most of the time. It never hurts to ride like you should. Then, if something unexpected happens. You will be much better positioned and prepared to deal with it.

[Peter Aawen]

Nanny tapped my brakes twice on really tight turns

You could take that as a warning from the Nanny to slow down, & that will certainly minimise the incidence of Nanny intervention like that, but she's responding to a whole range of input from a heap of sensors that are telling her a helluva lot about the ongoing dynamics of your Spyder & its cornering that are ganging up RIGHT NOW to tell her you aren't doing enough other stuff at that speed to make it around that corner with sufficient leeway for safety if anything changes!! :shocked:

So if the Nanny is doing that, speed is just one thing that she's checking, so like Ron says above, practice good ryding skills all the time & see what else you can change to improve things in your favour?!? How about if you check how much steering you've got dialed in; are you pushing into the realms of over-steer?? Fitting better tires than the Kendas (not bloody hard to do at all!) tires with stiffer sidewalls & less tire squirm will take more speed & 'less than ideal' loading to get that much squirm; while fitting a stiffer anti-sway bar (like BajaRon's) will keep the Spyder more level & avoid quite so much tire squirm quite so early. Similarly, getting more of your weight across the Spyder so it's down & inside the Spyder's CoG will minimise that too; as will less 'push' on the outside handlebar & more 'pull' on the inside bar, all helping to get your weight inside & down on any turn, as well as ensuring that your muscles 'interaction' with the Spyder & its suspension is lower & inside with relation to the Spyder's Roll Centre on that corner. And there's a heap more to consider & maybe change or improve once you really start looking critically at what's going on & being reported to the Nanny!

But without going into it all in too much more detail, if you want to ryde harder, dropping your SPEED is not the only way to minimise Nanny intervention. As others have said, learn to be as smooth as you can in all your ryding & control inputs; fit proper tires instead of the crappy Kendas (IMO, doing that alone will likely make almost as big an improvement as fitting Ron's Bar, which can make a substantial improvement!); fit that better anti-sway bar; learn to get & keep your weight across to the inside of any corner & down as low as you can as soon as you can; use the minimum amount of steering input necessary to make a given turn (cos just one degree too much can trigger Nanny intervention!) & learn the Nanny's limits for how much steering &/or throttle input she'll accept at whatever speed for whatever turn; if you feel you need more steering input on any given turn, try pulling harder on the inside bar (& NOT pushing away on the outside bar, the 'equal & opposite force' thing makes that transfer of weight & force happen in entirely the wrong place & direction & that upsets the Nanny PDQ!) and practice getting more of your weight across to the inside of the corner & down! Try the trailing brake thing, not actually slowing but applying just enough to let the Nanny know you are there & on it already if things go wrong; try smoothly feeding in throttle input on the way out, but learn how & when it's safe to do that without making Nanny sit up & complain! Work out what you can do using OTHER control inputs, your body weight, & anything else you have any degree of control over - if you want to ride your Spyder hard it becomes a 'whole of body' experience to get the absolute best out of your Spyder!! And while the 'real' skilled two wheel riders on well prepared bikes don't have anything much to worry about, the local 'wannabees' in my part of the world now know that without any doubts, even just 'good' practices from an old fart like me on a Spyder with 2 front wheels steering & braking plus the Nanny keeping an eye on things is far & away better than their absobloodylute best they can put up on anything with only two wheels!! :thumbup:

But if you don't want to do all that, your Spyder can still be the greatest provider of 'Miles of Smiles' without you having to work too hard at it at all. You get out of it what you are prepared to put in - you want to go faster & harder, then you need to work a bit harder at it; but if you don't want to do all that, you can still have a great ryde without getting that heavily involved! :yes:

[TRLBLZR1]

You could take that as a warning from the Nanny to slow down, & that will certainly minimise the incidence of Nanny intervention like that, but she's responding to a whole range of input from a heap of sensors that are telling her a helluva lot about the ongoing dynamics of your Spyder & its cornering that are ganging up RIGHT NOW to tell her you aren't doing enough other stuff at that speed to make it around that corner with sufficient leeway for safety if anything changes!! :shocked:

So if the Nanny is doing that, speed is just one thing that she's checking, so like Ron says above, practice good ryding skills all the time & see what else you can change to improve things in your favour?!? How about if you check how much steering you've got dialed in; are you pushing into the realms of over-steer?? Fitting better tires than the Kendas (not bloody hard to do at all!) tires with stiffer sidewalls & less tire squirm will take more speed & 'less than ideal' loading to get that much squirm; while fitting a stiffer anti-sway bar (like BajaRon's) will keep the Spyder more level & avoid quite so much tire squirm quite so early. Similarly, getting more of your weight across the Spyder so it's down & inside the Spyder's CoG will minimise that too; as will less 'push' on the outside handlebar & more 'pull' on the inside bar, all helping to get your weight inside & down on any turn, as well as ensuring that your muscles 'interaction' with the Spyder & its suspension is lower & inside with relation to the Spyder's Roll Centre on that corner. And there's a heap more to consider & maybe change or improve once you really start looking critically at what's going on & being reported to the Nanny!

But without going into it all in too much more detail, if you want to ryde harder, dropping your SPEED is not the only way to minimise Nanny intervention. As others have said, learn to be as smooth as you can in all your ryding & control inputs; fit proper tires instead of the crappy Kendas (IMO, doing that alone will likely make almost as big an improvement as fitting Ron's Bar, which can make a substantial improvement!); fit that better anti-sway bar; learn to get & keep your weight across to the inside of any corner & down as low as you can as soon as you can; use the minimum amount of steering input necessary to make a given turn (cos just one degree too much can trigger Nanny intervention!) & learn the Nanny's limits for how much steering &/or throttle input she'll accept at whatever speed for whatever turn; if you feel you need more steering input on any given turn, try pulling harder on the inside bar (& NOT pushing away on the outside bar, the 'equal & opposite force' thing makes that transfer of weight & force happen in entirely the wrong place & direction & that upsets the Nanny PDQ!) and practice getting more of your weight across to the inside of the corner & down! Try the trailing brake thing, not actually slowing but applying just enough to let the Nanny know you are there & on it already if things go wrong; try smoothly feeding in throttle input on the way out, but learn how & when it's safe to do that without making Nanny sit up & complain! Work out what you can do using OTHER control inputs, your body weight, & anything else you have any degree of control over - if you want to ride your Spyder hard it becomes a 'whole of body' experience to get the absolute best out of your Spyder!! And while the 'real' skilled two wheel riders on well prepared bikes don't have anything much to worry about, the local 'wannabees' in my part of the world now know that without any doubts, even just 'good' practices from an old fart like me on a Spyder with 2 front wheels steering & braking plus the Nanny keeping an eye on things is far & away better than their absobloodylute best they can put up on anything with only two wheels!! :thumbup:

But if you don't want to do all that, your Spyder can still be the greatest provider of 'Miles of Smiles' without you having to work too hard at it at all. You get out of it what you are prepared to put in - you want to go faster & harder, then you need to work a bit harder at it; but if you don't want to do all that, you can still have a great ryde without getting that heavily involved! :yes:

Very well said. This is how I describe controlled aggressive riding on my F3-S in one sentence: "I ride my F3-S (se) like a high performance snowmobile on well groomed trail, with smooth throttle control!" IMPORTANT: I don't try/expect to to stay with good (or foolish?) 2-wheel sport bike riders in high speed "S" curves. (Machine can't/won't do it so be safe and don't even try.) On the other hand: On "sub 60 mph. roads/speeds", I've found I can drive this Spyder both quicker & safer than I could ever have driven my sport bikes. (Also more relaxed with less "concentration & no stress.") FWIW: I've yet to experience "nanny" while driving like this, so the ECU must sense I'm "doing it right." (Very impressive "artificial intelligence" on the new F3 S I might add!)

Note: Been riding snowmobiles and motorcycles for about 40 years. (only a few weeks on Spyder)

[Road-Kill]

We both stress at work. For us going on a Spyder ride is time for relaxation, not wondering if this is the time the nanny doesn't work. We have ridden many roads that weve been on before, and it always amazes us of the sights that we missed in our cage. For us it's about living in our environment not seeing how fast we can get through it. Just my two cents.

I could not agree more! Going and returning on a recent long trip my buddy complained I was going the speed limit. I told him its about the scenery or the ride and not the destination. If I'm in a hurry why take the bike? I could just jump into my car and "get there". Going fast through the curves is ok from time to time but for me I just like to kick back and watch.....

[Road-Kill]

Absolutely! Hard parts can improve how the Spyder handles. But the rider is still the most important component of all. Upgrades cannot fully compensate for bad driving habits. Nor should any on board computer be expected to bail you out of every situation. Take control of your ride and ride it correctly. Everything will go much better if you do. Whether you ever add a suspension upgrade or not.

Regardless of how you ride, you should lean and practice proper approach angle, braking, leaning, steering, apex and acceleration out of a curve. Even if you do not need this skill most of the time. It never hurts to ride like you should. Then, if something unexpected happens. You will be much better positioned and prepared to deal with it.

I admit I was a skeptic but the BajaRon sway bar and metal links improved my ride quality by a large margin.

[quasi]

Only thing on that bike that is going to protect you is YOU!

[WackyDan]

When you can't stay in the right lane on the curve - crossing into the on-coming lane. Unless you have a Daytona Spyder, Nanny will put you down onto the road before you can turn over. For many of us, the game is to see how fast you can take a curve before Nanny kick in. So you won't know where that point is until it actually happens.

I love to challenge Nanny. I haven't found her yet on my F3T.

Nothing about the Daytona is any different than the other Spyders. The Daytona isn't the only 2017 F3 with Sport mode. My F3-S has it. Sport mode does not turn the nanny completely off.

[Bob Denman]

We both stress at work. For us going on a Spyder ride is time for relaxation, not wondering if this is the time the nanny doesn't work. We have ridden many roads that weve been on before, and it always amazes us of the sights that we missed in our cage. For us it's about living in our environment not seeing how fast we can get through it. Just my two cents.

149465

[TRLBLZR1]

Since "the nanny" has become an integral part of this discussion, I have a question regarding it's behavior:

On my F3-S D500 (SE model) I've never experienced nanny (while driving), nor have I ever disabled traction control. No need to IMO, because it must already be set rather "aggressive" on this machine/model, however:

Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

[Peteoz]

I admit I was a skeptic but the BajaRon sway bar and metal links improved my ride quality by a large margin.

I don't think the metal Helm links actually improve your ride quality, Road-Kill. They are just a higher strength item than the stock BRP plastic links that can break. I am currently running one of each until I get the time to replace a faulty metal link. All works well and is OK by Ron.

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

.....
Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

That yellow light flashing means the Nanny IS intervening in some way!! :shocked:

It could be that she's just limited the spark rate or injection to keep power down a little, or that she's applied any one (or more) of the brakes to ensure that your Spyder can make the corner you've just asked it to thru the steering input you've got dialed in; the speed you are travelling at; what your speed, control input, & the road is doing to/telling all the sensors, & how much lean you personally have put in to keep everything stable; or she could be making any one or more of a whole raft of other little tweaks thru things like the ABS, EBD, DPS, VSS, etc.... all stuff that you may not have noticed the how or realise why she is doing what she's doing, but she definitely IS intervening & keeping things within the parameters she has been told are acceptable! :thumbup:

I suspect that very many of those who claim or think that their Nanny hasn't ever intervened simply haven't realised when she HAS!! It's just that she hasn't had to intervene in a heavy handed or clearly noticeable way, and she can be extremely delicate & discrete!! She is actually quite gentle in most of her applications, but you'd hafta ride your Spyder slower & gentler than a loaded hearse for her not to have ever intervened in some way & I really don't believe that too many actually ride like that - altho I will allow that you hafta push her limits & boundaries pretty damn hard for her to intervene in a manner that is noticeable to some! Still, whatever you do, however you ryde, she is always there & she is always watching - and she intervenes waaayyy more than many might think; they just haven't noticed her gentle touch keeping them safe & their Spyder under control! :dontknow:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

That yellow light flashing means the Nanny IS intervening in some way!! :shocked:

It could be that she's just limited the spark rate or injection to keep power down a little, or that she's applied any one (or more) of the brakes to ensure that your Spyder can make the corner you've just asked it to thru the steering input you've got dialed in; the speed you are travelling at; what your speed, control input, & the road is doing to/telling all the sensors, & how much lean you personally have put in to keep everything stable; or she could be making any one or more of a whole raft of other little tweaks thru things like the ABS, EBD, DPS, VSS, etc.... all stuff that you may not have noticed the how or realise why she is doing what she's doing, but she definitely IS intervening & keeping things within the parameters she has been told are acceptable! :thumbup:

I suspect that very many of those who claim or think that their Nanny hasn't ever intervened simply haven't realised when she HAS!! It's just that she hasn't had to intervene in a heavy handed or clearly noticeable way, and she can be extremely delicate & discrete!! She is actually quite gentle in most of her applications, but you'd hafta ride your Spyder slower & gentler than a loaded hearse for her not to have ever intervened in some way & I really don't believe that too many actually ride like that - altho I will allow that you hafta push her limits & boundaries pretty damn hard for her to intervene in a manner that is noticeable to some! Still, whatever you do, however you ryde, she is always there & she is always watching - and she intervenes waaayyy more than many might think; they just haven't noticed her gentle touch keeping them safe & their Spyder under control! :dontknow:
:agree::agree::agree: .......in short the VSS isn't an on / off .... all or nothing ... type device .... That being said , when I had Toyo T1r's ( 185/55-15's ) on my RT , they stuck like GLUE and I've had NANNY almost shut the Spyder down completely in some turns do to rear end coming loose...... The Nanny makes getting great Tires useless ....... Mike :thumbup:

[Peter Aawen]

...... The Nanny makes getting great Tires useless ....... Mike :thumbup:

While it's probably not quite so cut & dried as all that ^^ makes out, there is definitely a fair degree of reality in there... :rolleyes: :gaah:

It would be sooooo nice to have the capability to 'dial back' the Nanny a bit, or at least dial back some of her fairly cautious safety parameters so that those of us who want to could ryde a bit harder at times; but in this litigious age I can understand why BRP is probably not gonna do that.... :gaah: doesn't mean I wouldn't jump on it if it was available tho :gaah:

And no, 'Sport Mode' is NOT exactly what I had in mind! :lecturef_smilie: Sport Mode only relaxes the traction control restraints on the rear wheel without relaxing any of the steering control or acceleration/throttle restrictions anywhere else - I'd like to see a bit more scope for hard cornering; more freedom to accelerate harder &/or sooner coming out of a corner; less instant response to lifting a front wheel; greater scope for wheel speed differences to allow a little more controlled 'drifting' et al.

Sure, this sort of thing might not be for everyone; but for some, the ability to work themselves a little harder & thereby take a little more advantage of the limits of the platforms capability would be greatly enhanced by allowing some relaxation of the Nanny's restrictions across the board - it obviously can be done, there are enough demonstrations out there, with vids & movie scenes etc showing Spyders doing things that you & I know the Nanny's WE have been saddled with won't let our Spyders even attempt, but somehow, some way, there are Spyders around that DO have more relaxed Nanny restrictions - I'd like to be able to access that/those, or at least some of them! Hey, even it means we'd hafta pass an 'advanced ryding skills' test to gain said access, I reckon there's a market for it... if only BRP would listen & agree/allow it?! :dontknow:

But since they won't even budge on something as obviously 'disappointing' & seemingly stupid to most owners as continuing to run the sub-optimal OE Kenda Tires... :shocked:

[TRLBLZR1]

That yellow light flashing means the Nanny IS intervening in some way!! :shocked:

It could be that she's just limited the spark rate or injection to keep power down a little, or that she's applied any one (or more) of the brakes to ensure that your Spyder can make the corner you've just asked it to thru the steering input you've got dialed in; the speed you are travelling at; what your speed, control input, & the road is doing to/telling all the sensors, & how much lean you personally have put in to keep everything stable; or she could be making any one or more of a whole raft of other little tweaks thru things like the ABS, EBD, DPS, VSS, etc.... all stuff that you may not have noticed the how or realise why she is doing what she's doing, but she definitely IS intervening & keeping things within the parameters she has been told are acceptable! :thumbup:

I suspect that very many of those who claim or think that their Nanny hasn't ever intervened simply haven't realised when she HAS!! It's just that she hasn't had to intervene in a heavy handed or clearly noticeable way, and she can be extremely delicate & discrete!! She is actually quite gentle in most of her applications, but you'd hafta ride your Spyder slower & gentler than a loaded hearse for her not to have ever intervened in some way & I really don't believe that too many actually ride like that - altho I will allow that you hafta push her limits & boundaries pretty damn hard for her to intervene in a manner that is noticeable to some! Still, whatever you do, however you ryde, she is always there & she is always watching - and she intervenes waaayyy more than many might think; they just haven't noticed her gentle touch keeping them safe & their Spyder under control! :dontknow:

Thanks lol! (Now I'm curious as to her "delicate ways.") I'm going to have to disable the anti-slip and do some controlled environment testing. (Like I said, thanks lol!) I've honestly never felt any intervention whatsoever & power has never been noticeably effected. But, maybe it is cutting power a touch so I don't spin the rear tire? ~ I've actually never spun (or tried to spin for that matter) the rear tire, and have little interest in doing so. Nevertheless, I'm truly surprised it has never broken loose, not even accelerating from a stop in a straight line. (Although I've never really hammered on it with intent. And it's the SE model anyways.)

In any event, I'm quite impressed with the on-board "artificial intelligence!"

PS: Coming out of the apex of a turn, my F3-S (se) pulls pretty hard (IMO) without reservation, even in the lower gears with rpm's. (Based on the things I read here, sometimes I think the nanny on my machine isn't online/active at sub 50 mph speeds. ~ Maybe I'm just driving "too delicate" lol.) FWIW: My last bike was a GSXR-1100.

[Tx web rider]

well i dont have the F3 i have a 09 GS that loves to be played with a couple years ago in Colorado we were carving the curves kinda hard lol i was riding with a goldwing and a triumph having a blast many times i would hear in my headset (we were all running the smh 10 senas ) dude your inner wheel is way up there

its fun to lift it and not get the nanny pissed off

but learn your machine its not there to keep you alive when pushing it past the limit its there to check the oopses

i have had mine check me when hydroplaning and when trying to drift

play with it and learn don't exceed its workings unless you want to be in the situation of ahhh ****

i have seen spyders get away from poor riders and cross the line and hit the other side scary he almost hit the rock wall on the pig trail scared the **** out of him we had to baby him to our destination

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

:agree::agree::agree: .......in short the VSS isn't an on / off .... all or nothing ... type device .... That being said , when I had Toyo T1r's ( 185/55-15's ) on my RT , they stuck like GLUE and I've had NANNY almost shut the Spyder down completely in some turns do to rear end coming loose...... The Nanny makes getting great Tires useless ....... Mike :thumbup:

Gotta agree with this!

[BajaRon]

I don't think the metal Helm links actually improve your ride quality, Road-Kill. They are just a higher strength item than the stock BRP plastic links that can break. I am currently running one of each until I get the time to replace a faulty metal link. All works well and is OK by Ron.

Pete

The Billet Aluminum Links actually do make a difference. The OEM links stretch some. More as the stress increases. This dampens the function of the sway bar a bit (making it operate as if it were a bit weaker). It isn't a huge difference. But it is there.

[WackyDan]

Since "the nanny" has become an integral part of this discussion, I have a question regarding it's behavior:

On my F3-S D500 (SE model) I've never experienced nanny (while driving), nor have I ever disabled traction control. No need to IMO, because it must already be set rather "aggressive" on this machine/model, however:

Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

The F3 is far for subtle than the one on the older GS/RS. I've still had it come on hard a few times, but I've found that it is far more polite in the auto braking and throttle retardation than the older models. Definitely carry far more speed into the turns but I have had it hit the brakes hard on me a few times when I was too hot on entry.

Lastly... Whether or not you embrace the nanny or not is very dependent on the road you are on. Some roads you are trying to carry more speed but on others, the nanny kicking in more in the turns can indeed help you go faster... Seems illogical, but it comes down to trusting the bike to do it's thing and keeping the nanny from over reacting.