998 Oil Filter cover stripped bolt

[jcthorne]

I have a customers bike that one of the bolt holes that holds on the oil filter cover is stripped.

My inclination is to attempt a repair of the threaded hole with a time-sert tread repair insert.

Before I launch down this course of action, has anyone else done this repair?

I am in a quandary on the whole ethical handling of the situation. The bike came to me in a non-running state. Dead battery which I replaced. When I pulled the filters to do an oil change, the bolt in question felt all wrong. Came loose far too easily after about on turn so it was barely holding on. Inside the filter housing I found the problem. The end cap from the prior filter was wedged in the cap and the new filter had been inserted, the cap installed and tightened down. Crunched the filter and extra end cap inside. What a mess.

When doing the oil change I did not recognize that the threads for the bolt were stripped yet. I installed the new filter after sanding the inside of the cover to clean up the gouges from the extra filter cap. Buttoned up the bike and installed new oil. Ran fine and checked for leaks. All ok. Customer picked up bike and rode off. Made it about a mile and oil filter cap bolt pulled out, o-ring blew out and oil sprayed out. Bike is back at my shop to fix. Hind sight is 20/20.

Have I said what junk the Rotax filters are? The end caps routinely fall off. The bikes owner had done the prior oil change and obviously missed the end cap wedged in the cover.

What is the ethical way to handle this? I did show the owner what was in the filter housing when I pulled it out before he left with the bike so they know things were not well before they brought me the bike. If the thread repair is not successful, it becomes a much larger repair that I am not willing to take on. Likely time for the dealer service shop to do engine/trans parts change outs.

I would appreciate thoughts, discussion, pointers. Never had this issue before on a 998.

[trikermutha]

While I don't have any answers to the repair. I Did work with the time Sert inserts on one of my Harley's they do work well.:thumbup: I liked them way better than the other name brand out there.

[BajaRon]

Definitely a real bummer. But I'd say you're on the right track. But I feel for you. I think we've all been where you are at one time or another.

[bmccaffrey]

Lock Tite does make a thread repair kit for this purpose

Have not purposely used but watched video was impressed

[Bob Denman]

We had a member try to fix a problem in that manner that you've described...
He lost his bike, in the fires that ensued... :yikes:
We never heard anything more about the quality of his work, but please be careful about this repair. nojoke

[BigGuy66]

If i were the owner I would want to know what you know. Then discuss all the options and let owner decide what the next step is. That way if owner lets you know to go ahead with thread repair, there is a chance it won't work and then owner knows that it will be a dealer for larger repair. Good communication is what I've always appreciated. Let us know how this turns out
Jim

[larryd]

Are there any threads left deep in the threaded hole??? If so, maybe you could epoxy a stud in that hole and use a nut on the outside...larryd

[jcthorne]

If i were the owner I would want to know what you know. Then discuss all the options and let owner decide what the next step is. That way if owner lets you know to go ahead with thread repair, there is a chance it won't work and then owner knows that it will be a dealer for larger repair. Good communication is what I've always appreciated. Let us know how this turns out
Jim

On
a somewhat limited basis, I have had this conversation with the owner. Trouble is, I do not think they really understand the situation. I did tell them that while I will attempt the repair, there is no warranty on the thread repair, and indeed it may not work.

I ordered the time sert kit as I did not have this size (m6) and will attempt the repair Sat morning. Hoping it goes well and we can move on.

I chose Time-sert as its the only thread repair that seems to hold up on threads that are re-used repeatedly. Helicoils back out and are intended for a one time repair as are the loctite epoxy based repairs.

[Chupaca]

Have seen this happening to the SE models because the bolts for the engine filter and the trans filter are different lengths. I have used Helicoil to repair these problems and they work well. In a bind and material permitting I have gone to a 7mm bolt. You should be fine with the insert. :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Even before Bob mentioned it , I remembered the incident ( not the name of the person ) He had a Blk/yel 08 GS lived in Tenn. - helped Lamont with the BBQ one year and tried this as a fix because someone here recommended it ........ plus people tend to ONLY remember the good things about a possible fix - not the BAD things that can happen ...... good luck ................ Mike :thumbup:

[Bob Denman]

Even before Bob mentioned it , I remembered the incident ( not the name of the person ) He had a Blk/yel 08 GS lived in Tenn. - helped Lamont with the BBQ one year and tried this as a fix because someone here recommended it ........ plus people tend to ONLY remember the good things about a possible fix - not the BAD things that can happen ...... good luck ................ Mike :thumbup:
:shocked: This sad episode cost us the "Motorbike Professor"... :shocked:

[PMK]

Many things.

First, Heli Coils and Timeserts plus others I have installed into single parts on aircraft components where the parts housing cost as much as three Spyder RT's. They all work. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

HeliCoils done properly are not a Loctite / Epoxy install. HeliCoils can back out, but seldom do unless there is other circumstances. HeliCoils are rated for greater than original threads pull out strength in most materials.

The various types of inserts can have concerns also. These types I have seen unwind and create havoc as they come free. Some styles are inserted and then a knurled upper edge is peened to prevent rotation. The NAS types have 4 drive keys that are set into the base material. I have never had the keyed type unwind, but they are involved to remove and truly require special tools designed for that.

As for what to do. I believe the fastener hole in question is one of a few and the one with pulled threads requires the longer of the fasteners that secure the cover in place. Mixing up the fasteners and installing a short bolt where a long bolt is required is often the basis for this to happen.

Having been around similar situations many times, whether you did this damage or not, in the customers eyes, you were the last person that worked on it, therefore it falls on you. Downside is, you brought it in not running, however I assume it was running prior to the battery failing and should have shown leakage on account of the description of previous work you gave. Regardless, good customer service would have you accomplish the repair on your time and expense. I would promote the HeliCoil as an upgrade if done correctly where the proper alignment is accomplished both during drilling and threading. As for what happens if it does not work...well, if the owner claims you caused the issue and gets a lawyer, you are SOL. If the owner gets a big repair bill from shop, then goes after you for damages, you may be SOL.

Without seeing the damaged hole, knowing the best repair style is difficult. I would gather the engineering data on all the thread repairs, and whichever retains the greatest remaining material use that.

Knowing that very few people understand the difference between wet and dry torques, plus when to apply them, for safety, it may be prudent to repair all the holes, even those that appear ok considering past history.

All the best with it. If you were nearby, I would offer to help in the proper drilling and threading. Normally, it is more time in proper prep / setup than accomplishing the drill / threading operation.

BTW, myself I prefer HeliCoils over inserts in most cases, simply because if damaged typically they can be removed easily and a replacement installed without much effort.

[DrewNJ]

Even before Bob mentioned it , I remembered the incident ( not the name of the person ) He had a Blk/yel 08 GS lived in Tenn. - helped Lamont with the BBQ one year and tried this as a fix because someone here recommended it ........ plus people tend to ONLY remember the good things about a possible fix - not the BAD things that can happen ...... good luck ................ Mike :thumbup:

I was the one who recommended that repair, and would still stand by that recommendation and would have no issues doing it to my own spyder. The catch is that the repair has to be done correctly. Botch it up and the cover will come loose....Obviously. Good luck!

I don't see any reason that this would be outside of the jcthorne abilities? No?

[PMK]

I was the one who recommended that repair, and would still stand by that recommendation and would have no issues doing it to my own spyder. The catch is that the repair has to be done correctly. Botch it up and the cover will come loose....Obviously. Good luck!

I don't see any reason that this would be outside of the jcthorne abilities? No?

Agree. If there is enough base material, properly done it should not be a problem.

[jcthorne]

Have seen this happening to the SE models because the bolts for the engine filter and the trans filter are different lengths. I have used Helicoil to repair these problems and they work well. In a bind and material permitting I have gone to a 7mm bolt. You should be fine with the insert. :thumbup:


Good
to hear. THANKS!

[jcthorne]

Many things.



As for what to do. I believe the fastener hole in question is one of a few and the one with pulled threads requires the longer of the fasteners that secure the cover in place. Mixing up the fasteners and installing a short bolt where a long bolt is required is often the basis for this to happen.



Thanks
for your thoughts. Thinking this through, do you remember which cover (trans filter vs main oil filter) gets the longer bolts? I rarely pay attention to this and rely on only taking one cover off at a time and placing the bolts back where they came from. Your thoughts bring up the question of if they were in the right holes at all. If you know which go where, I will do a detail check of both covers when I tear stuff off for access to repair the fitting. I'll go do some reading to be sure of this.

I truly hope things do not come to the lawyer stage. I would close the business and let my insurance take care of it. If I can just repair the threads, I had already decided not to charge for the repair. I really do feel poorly for the owner.

[PMK]

Thanks
for your thoughts. Thinking this through, do you remember which cover (trans filter vs main oil filter) gets the longer bolts? I rarely pay attention to this and rely on only taking one cover off at a time and placing the bolts back where they came from. Your thoughts bring up the question of if they were in the right holes at all. If you know which go where, I will do a detail check of both covers when I tear stuff off for access to repair the fitting. I'll go do some reading to be sure of this.

I truly hope things do not come to the lawyer stage. I would close the business and let my insurance take care of it. If I can just repair the threads, I had already decided not to charge for the repair. I really do feel poorly for the owner.

JC, I have no experience with the 998 oil filters. The bolt length is something I have read about here and on Facebook as it does happen.

[DrewNJ]

If you didn't want to mess with inserts you could tap the holes to 1/4x28 or even 20. It's only slightly larger, but smaller than m7.
If it's an SE machine this would also benefit as there would be no way in the future to mix up the bolts.

[billybovine]

The trans filter bolts are 35mm long and the engine filter bolts are 30mm.

[cptjam]

If there is one or two threads in the bottom, I would install a stud slathered in JB Weld or some miracle epoxy. I fixed a Kawasaki 650 this way, and the repair has lasted years! Another neat trick: get a bolt 5mm longer. Cut off head. Bore a hole in it big enough for welding wire. Screw in stud, weld base thru hole in stud. That worked on a Harley transmission side cover! Joe

[R FUN]

I had this experience on my first oil change done by the dealer. Shortly after I was at another dealer in the US having a CB installed and was advised of an oil leak but they were not sure were it was coming from but seeing I just had an oil change figured it must be dripping from the lower pan from doing the oil change. Shortly there after the bolt let loose and sprayed oil out and caught fire. I contacted dealer 150 miles away and they said it has happened several times. They said they would put in a hilicoil but checking on spyder lovers it was advised the casting is too thin and would cut into the inner works and cause a worse leak. Mine was the transmission upper bolt. I drilled it clear through and taped it and then got a longer bolt and put a lock nut as added security. This was 5 years ago and working great. Not sure which bolt is stripped on yours.
P.S. I was able to get the fire out with no damage.
Roger

[KX5062]

I know I'm late to this party (I don't come here every day), but have you tried the welding method of broken bolt extraction? It works great and does not damage any threads and no inserts needed.

[jcthorne]

I know I'm late to this party (I don't come here every day), but have you tried the welding method of broken bolt extraction? It works great and does not damage any threads and no inserts needed.


The
bolt is not broken and is out. In fact the bolt is just fine, threads and all. The owner stripped the aluminum threads on the engine that the bolt threads into.

[KX5062]

The
bolt is not broken and is out. In fact the bolt is just fine, threads and all. The owner stripped the aluminum threads on the engine that the bolt threads into.

Ah, copy that. I missed that.

[bmccaffrey]

Well what was the outcome of this

Waiting:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[jcthorne]

In the end the problem was a bit worse than previously suspected. As I removed things to clear a path for clean repair, it was discovered that the hole had been stripped and heli-coil'd in the past. Now the heli coil was stripped.

The repair that worked was the suggestion of an epoxied (jbweld) in stud and nut. I removed the remnants of the old heil coil, tapped the hole for the time sert which is every so slightly larger threads. Cleaned and dried well. Was enough to hold everything straight including the stud while the epoxy cured. Then install the filter, cap and a nut on the stud. All works well and easy to service in the future. Glad that one is behind me and customer seemed pleased I was able to repair.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and support.