Creeping

[StarTraveler649]

Something cropped up yesterday on and off. Have a new SE5, just over 300 miles, so may just be breaking in glitches.

Normally, when I stop in first gear, the bike sits there idling at about 1350-1400, I take my foot off the brake, it still sits there.

Yesterday, on 3 occasions, it would idle at 1250-1300 and want to keep pulling forward. Not very hard, but if I took my foot off of the brake, it would start rolling. (flat surface)

All 3 occasions were different, once in stop and go traffic after work, once after riding about 10 minutes - ~40 mph or so then stop sign, last time after going a good 20 minutes - ~60 mph or so with even hitting the brake much less stopping.

Thought throttle might not be returning to full idle, not the case.

Questions: :dontknow:

1. Why is it doing this ?
2. Do I have to worry about it just yet ?
3. Is this normal breaking in occurences with an SE5 ?
4. Why should one have to work every day when there is prime riding weather (not related, but a good question none the same !) ?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[zzneonzz]

I had this early on and asked the dealer about it and he said its just the clutch getting hot. It stopped doing this on me at about 800 miles. I now have 6800 Miles.

[GaryTheBadger]

This is due to the centrifugal clutch sticking. If you "blip" the throttle (while holding the brakes on) it will revert to no-creep mode. Its a known problem that BRP is working on.

Mine has three distince modes: no creep, 1MPH creep and agressive creep that requires I hold the brakes on firmly until I "blip" the throttle to get to no-creep mode. This all started about the same mileage it did on yours, and I now have 1200 and its still doing it. I never know which mode it will be in when I come to a stop.

Anecdotally, Royal Purple oil might solve it, but I have not seen hard evidence yet, its too soon to tell.

I recommend you email BRP tech support, as I have. The more of us who complain, the faster it will get resolved (hey, I can dream can't I?) I don't have the email address handy, but someone will reply to this thread with it. (Methods to contact BPR should be a "sticky" thread at the top of this forum, in my opinion).

[StarTraveler649]

Thanks for the speedy replies ! :clap:

Will hunt down that e-mail address.

[Degaman]

Mine was fixed with the gear position sensor replacement. Occasionally, it still wants to creep ever so slightly, but the throttle blip takes care of it instantly.

[Degaman]

And one for good measure... hip hip hooray... I'm a senior member... what discounts do I qualify for? :clap:

[Dudley]

I have emailed BRP at spyderteam@brp.com. My emails have all been answered. Our Spyder had the transmission "fix" done but it still wanted to creep. I first started putting it in Neutral, then back to first and that worked. One day that didn't work, and the transmission wanted to stay in Neutral. My wife pushed the Spyder about 4 feet and it decided to go into 1st. After that, I "blip" the throttle. I started using Royal Purple Max Cycle Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 10W40 on March 25th. Since that time (1000 miles) it has never crawled (creeped) again. It is not BRP oil, so my choice to change may become a warranty issue if ever the engine or the transmission has problems. I'll cross that bridge if I have to. If you scroll back on the General Discussion threads, I have a thread on a review of the oil and what differences I noticed in the Spyder since using the oil. Feel free to call me anytime if you still have my number. Or email me and I will give it to you.

[StarTraveler649]

Called BRP's customer report and spoke to someone there. She acted like they had never heard of this problem before.

Spoke to another guy that I was passed on to, same thing. So they started a report, said to watch it for a couple hundred mile, if it keeps doing it, then being it in.

It is not bad, does not aggressively pull foward, but things can always change.

Spoke to someone at my dealer and was told basically the smae thing the same thing. He owns a Spyder, sells them, and has to deal with people who own them, so I am guessing he would ahve a good idea. He is also on these forums as well. Will see what happens over the next few miles and go from there I guess.

[scott]

mine did the samething--the dealer replaced a spring (sorry--don't remember the techical name)...the new spring is much stronger...problem went away---my bill said....."spring recall..." and was a $9.00 part covered by the warrenty. The dealer said all the SE5's they have sold have come back to have this spring replaced....works fine now...

[Bersquack]

Mine also does that. I will be dropping it for the first service tomorrow and will mention that to my dealer.

Thanks to this forum, when it started I knew exactly what the problem was and tried the "blip" trick.

:firstplace:

[GaryTheBadger]

Three things:

1) I called it a centrifugal clutch because that's what my local BRP service tech said it is. If he's wrong then I have a bigger problem to solve!

2) I just got a phone call from Carlo at BRP!! He got my email. This is good news. BRP is listening, working on the problem, contacting owners. I pointed them to this fourm for further details to help their troubleshooting.

3) The email address is: spydertechsupport@brp.com The one listed above by Dudley might be the general/marketing department. Again, I vote for making the BRP contact info a "sticky" after its confirmed...email addresses, phone numbers, web sites.

[rleathen]

I too experienced this same problem early on with my 2008 SE5. At the direction of BRP my dealer replaced the clutch rollers and the problem dissappeared.

[Lamonster]

Again, I vote for making the BRP contact info a "sticky" after its confirmed...email addresses, phone numbers, web sites.

It is linked on the front page of SpyderLovers under Spyder Web:

» Spyder Web
Spyder Customer Support (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10017)
SpyderRider (http://www.spyderryder.com/)
Spyder Specs (http://spyder.brp.com/NR/rdonlyres/6CFA7C41-7608-4F7D-84B7-610A30FDE807/0/SpyderSpecSheet.pdf)
Factory Site (http://www.spyder.brp.com/)
US Dealer List (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=66)
Canada Dealer List (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=115)
BRP Parts Online (http://epc.brp.com/login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx)
Operators Guide (http://spyder.brp.com/NR/rdonlyres/A86F2B61-B5BE-4BE9-8E75-31BAFBB36FC0/0/OperatorsGuide_2008_en.pdf)
Owners Map (http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=68719477367)
(http://www.frappr.com/?a=constellation_map&mapid=68719477367)

[spyryder]

Well then, Gary, yes, you do have a bigger problem. :gaah:

SE5 has two clutches, a primary and a centrifigal clutch. Check BRP parts online.

[ataDude]

SE5 has two clutches, a primary and a centrifigal clutch. Check BRP parts online.

I just did... you are entirely correct. :yikes:

I will amend my prior posts. ;) Good catch... more working parts... more things to go wrong.
.

[Firefly]

I just hold the clutch in when stopped - ;)

I didn't know the Se5 actually uses two clutches, but I guess it makes sense.

I had a Sears minibike with a centrifugal clutch - worked well but wasn't very good for burnouts!

Glad BRP is communicating with you guys -

[spyryder]

I just did... you are entirely correct. :yikes:

I will amend my prior posts. ;) Good catch... more working parts... more things to go wrong.
.

It's quite the system....at first I thought the primary clutch always stayed engaged and relied only on the centrifugal, but they're both used somehow. :gaah:

[StarTraveler649]

Received an e-mail form Carlos this afternoon for VIN and other info. Will see what happens.

[ataDude]

It's quite the system....at first I thought the primary clutch always stayed engaged and relied only on the centrifugal, but they're both used somehow. :gaah:

If you ever figure out how it works, let me know! :thumbup:

.

[Tom in NM]

I have a new 2008 SE5 and Monday as I hit 400 miles, it started creeping too.

Usually, in a flat parking lot, it will get up to 7 or 8 mph. RPM is steady at 1500. On Wednesday, at about 510 miles, twice it wanted to creep at around 15 mph. RPM, still steady at 1500.

I shifted to Neutral and back and everything was fine, but I usually just use the brake. I didn't know about the throttle blip, so I will try that. ( heck, I just figured out you can double-shift into Reverse yesterday - boy, is that slick! )

I also noticed that when the 'creeping' started, the shifting and general performance feel of the Sypder noticeably improved, everything felt smoother and tighter at the same time.

I am scheduled to go into the dealership on Monday for the 600 Service ( boy, the miles pile up fast on Spyders! ) The discussions have helped and give me some feeling about what to expect - THANKS EVERYONE .

If I learn anything of value, I'll post it.

Tom

[Trickie Dick]

I also have this problem on my se5. I emailed tech support at the address Gary the Badger listed. Will be interested to hear from them.
Dick

[trldncr]

If you ever figure out how it works, let me know! :thumbup:

.
The centrifugal clutch has small rollers that look like dumbells. As the rpm's increase the rollers move outwards and spread the centrifugal outwards and applies pressure on the clutch pack which is very similar to the SM5 and other motorcycles.
If the rollers don't return all the way when the rpm's drop, the clutch drags trying to stall the engine. The Idle Air Control Valve tries to keep the engine at 1400rpm and therefore the unit creeps ahead. When you blip the throttle it usually gives the rollers a chance to return to there idle position and no creeping. That is why when you start the unit and put it in gear it doesn't creep until you engage the rollers again when increasing rpm.

[Firefly]

I have a new 2008 SE5 and Monday as I hit 400 miles, it started creeping too.

Usually, in a flat parking lot, it will get up to 7 or 8 mph. RPM is steady at 1500. On Wednesday, at about 510 miles, twice it wanted to creep at around 15 mph. RPM, still steady at 1500.

I shifted to Neutral and back and everything was fine, but I usually just use the brake. I didn't know about the throttle blip, so I will try that. ( heck, I just figured out you can double-shift into Reverse yesterday - boy, is that slick! )

I also noticed that when the 'creeping' started, the shifting and general performance feel of the Sypder noticeably improved, everything felt smoother and tighter at the same time.

I am scheduled to go into the dealership on Monday for the 600 Service ( boy, the miles pile up fast on Spyders! ) The discussions have helped and give me some feeling about what to expect - THANKS EVERYONE .

If I learn anything of value, I'll post it.

Tom

Double shift into reverse?
Can you go backwards in time when you do that?

If you hold the brake down does that take care of the creeping? Or do you still feel it pulling you forward? If you're in reverse will it creep backwards?

Interesting beast with it's own personality that Se5 is!

[GaryTheBadger]

Yes, it does sometimes creep in reverse too. Its not a gearbox
issue, its a centrifugal clutch sticking issue.

When it wants to creep at a stop, if you "blip" the throttle (while holding the brakes firmly), you can hear a distinct click as the clutch "dumbells" reset back to their correct position. Because the problem is common and easily reproduceable, I would think BRP could resolve it quickly, and under warranty. I'm more concerned about the service technician's skill and experience at working on the guts of the Spyder transmission when its time to implement the fix.

Can someone explain what "double-shift into reverse" is?

[ataDude]

Thanks! So, from what you said, the centrifugal clutch is the "off idle" primary... in use before the regular clutch pack is "activated".

Now, I understand about why some people say "blip" the throttle to move out of a gear... it's to engage the centrifugal clutch and move the gear train!
.


The centrifugal clutch has small rollers that look like dumbells. As the rpm's increase the rollers move outwards and spread the centrifugal outwards and applies pressure on the clutch pack which is very similar to the SM5 and other motorcycles.
If the rollers don't return all the way when the rpm's drop, the clutch drags trying to stall the engine. The Idle Air Control Valve tries to keep the engine at 1400rpm and therefore the unit creeps ahead. When you blip the throttle it usually gives the rollers a chance to return to there idle position and no creeping. That is why when you start the unit and put it in gear it doesn't creep until you engage the rollers again when increasing rpm.

[Tom in NM]

Double shift into reverse?
Can you go backwards in time when you do that?

If you hold the brake down does that take care of the creeping? Or do you still feel it pulling you forward? If you're in reverse will it creep backwards?

Interesting beast with it's own personality that Se5 is!

Firefly,
"Double-Shifting" on the SE5 works like this: If you are in 1st and you want to go into Reverse, Press in the Reverse button & then Pull the shift towards you ( the minus - ) and hold it. The SE5 will shift through Neutral and into Reverse. This saves the rider the time and extra step of shifting into Neutral and then shifting into Reverse.
The opposite also works - if you are in Reverse and want to get to 1st, Press the shift ( the plus + ) and hold it. The SE5 will shift through Neutral and into 1st and you are ready to go.
Double-Shifting is quick and easy - and much more graceful than I can shift into Neutral and then shift into a gear. The Owner's Manual covers this, but I only picked up on the Double-Shift into 1st from Reverse.

Yes, if you Double-Shift into Reverse, you can go backwards in time. BUT, you also have to be sitting backwards on the seat, which spoils the effect. Also it is only -.5 second/foot, not really worth all the effort.

Yes, a very light touch of the brake stops all creeping and I have never felt it pull or felt I needed to put on more brake pressure.

No, I have never had it creep in Reverse. My SE5 always wants a push from the throttle when it begins time-travel mode.

And no, while the SE5 is an interesting beast and has a personality - from my test rides and reading this forum - the real interesting beasts and personalities RIDE Spyders.

Tom

[Firefly]

Firefly,
"Double-Shifting" on the SE5 works like this: If you are in 1st and you want to go into Reverse, Press in the Reverse button & then Pull the shift towards you ( the minus - ) and hold it. The SE5 will shift through Neutral and into Reverse. This saves the rider the time and extra step of shifting into Neutral and then shifting into Reverse.
The opposite also works - if you are in Reverse and want to get to 1st, Press the shift ( the plus + ) and hold it. The SE5 will shift through Neutral and into 1st and you are ready to go.
Double-Shifting is quick and easy - and much more graceful than I can shift into Neutral and then shift into a gear. The Owner's Manual covers this, but I only picked up on the Double-Shift into 1st from Reverse.

Yes, if you Double-Shift into Reverse, you can go backwards in time. BUT, you also have to be sitting backwards on the seat, which spoils the effect. Also it is only -.5 second/foot, not really worth all the effort.

Yes, a very light touch of the brake stops all creeping and I have never felt it pull or felt I needed to put on more brake pressure.

No, I have never had it creep in Reverse. My SE5 always wants a push from the throttle when it begins time-travel mode.

And no, while the SE5 is an interesting beast and has a personality - from my test rides and reading this forum - the real interesting beasts and personalities RIDE Spyders.

Tom
:thumbup:

I've only been on an SE5 once - it was strange to not shift in the conventional manner - I was like - what's my left foot supposed to be doing now?

Enjoy being a rock start - it never gets old! :D