COMPLETELY DEAD

[PaladinLV]

Got home the other day parked Spyder all as normal.


After parking decided I needed to move it a bit. Went to start it up and NOTHING.
Black screen, no lights, no sound . . nothing.

Checked battery 13.7; checked connections and all are tight; checked voltage at power outlet installed near left speaker (for heated gear) 13.7V

Thinking maybe the ignition switch but open to other ideas.

Tnx
AJ

[Cavman]

Did you check the kill switch? That just sounds weird to me? No lights and such. Thinking they may be a loose connection the ignition switch?
Hope this helps?
John

[trikermutha]

Fuse or Relay?

[SPYD3R]

this may sound odd, but my RS had that issue yrs ago, and after pulling most my hair out and all the Tuperware off... i found that the NEGATIVE cable to the battery had come lose and was just far enough away from the terminal that there was no contact...
Dan P
SPYD3R

[Bob Denman]

Since your bike is a 2014: you might as well start up front...
Check the fuses and relays, while you dig down to the batter. Check to make sure that everything is "Tight & Right". :thumbup:
(This is all after you've checked the Kill-Switch. :D)

I like to start with the easiest stuff first, and then move back up the line. nojoke

But beyond this: I've got nothing else! :opps:

[Chupaca]

Seems you checked the right places and if you are getting power to the outlets and battery has full charge it would seem that the power is not getting to the after ignition system. Would start witht he fuses and relays. If you have anything that is powered after ignition then you may be right and the ignition switch is failing or it's connections are faulty. Do let us know what you find. :banghead:

[eddieshep999]

Do you have a 2nd key, maybe try it see what happens
I'm sure others will give more suggestion to try to get you going again
Hope you get it sorted

[billybovine]

Check fuse J4 in left fuse box.
Check fuse F2 in left fuse box.

Just to double check. Both the gauge cluster and running lights not coming on? Because they are 2 separate circuits going through the ignition switch.

Did you happen to turn the handlebars to full lock when you parked it. Sometimes if the wires are tie wrapped too short. the connector can be pulled off the bottom of the ignition switch.

[monkeyboymorton]

I would agree with the 'check the kill switch' first answer already given. The symptoms given are an exact match - i.e it appears totally dead.

I had the exact same thing on a road trip and was contemplating tow trucks and all sorts when I noticed I'd hit the kill switch by accident (I don't normally use it). Felt a bit silly but was just glad when it came back on.

[PaladinLV]

Kill Switch keeps bike from starting not other functions.
Thats why it's called a kill switch, it is meant to KILL the engine and keeps the bike from starting up not lights, cluster etc. :D

AJ

Did you check the kill switch? That just sounds weird to me? No lights and such. Thinking they may be a loose connection the ignition switch?
Hope this helps?
John

[PaladinLV]

Fused are good, but one can only check the coil of a relay, not the contacts and coils appear to be ok.

AJ


Seems you checked the right places and if you are getting power to the outlets and battery has full charge it would seem that the power is not getting to the after ignition system. Would start witht he fuses and relays. If you have anything that is powered after ignition then you may be right and the ignition switch is failing or it's connections are faulty. Do let us know what you find. :banghead:

[PaladinLV]

That's what I'm thinking! ;)

AJ




Did you happen to turn the handlebars to full lock when you parked it. Sometimes if the wires are tie wrapped too short. the connector can be pulled off the bottom of the ignition switch.

[billybovine]

Another thought. The battery voltage is high, 13.7 V. I assume that was taken at no load. If so try it again with the key on. It's rare but maybe the battery is surface charged.

[solidgranite]

I stopped to gas up my 2012 RT-SE5, shut off the bike, turned the key and lifted the seat. Turned the key back to insert position, as always. Filled 'er up, closed the seat...turned the key and NOTHING...blank screen, no self-check, nothing. Kill switch in "on" position, trans. in N. NOTHING! Couldn't even pop off the e-brake or open the frunk. A guy offered to give me a jump, and surprisingly, that WORKED! Screen came on, went thru self-check and started as though everything was okay.

I have no way to test the battery, but have had it on a "tender" throughout the winter, connected via the cigar. lighter in the back compartment...always hot. The tender indicates the battery has 80+ % charge (by the little indicator lights). If one of the battery cables is loose, I can easily tighten it up, but don't want to get stranded on a long ride. If I don't find a loose battery cable, should I consider replacing the battery? Is this something I could so, or do I need to have the Dealer do it? How much can I expect to pay for a new battery and installation?

By the way, this is the first and only time this has happened...always starts right up, Even during the really cold days, I'd start her up and let her run for 5 minutes every couple of days.

[billybovine]

I stopped to gas up my 2012 RT-SE5, shut off the bike, turned the key and lifted the seat. Turned the key back to insert position, as always. Filled 'er up, closed the seat...turned the key and NOTHING...blank screen, no self-check, nothing. Kill switch in "on" position, trans. in N. NOTHING! Couldn't even pop off the e-brake or open the frunk. A guy offered to give me a jump, and surprisingly, that WORKED! Screen came on, went thru self-check and started as though everything was okay.

I have no way to test the battery, but have had it on a "tender" throughout the winter, connected via the cigar. lighter in the back compartment...always hot. The tender indicates the battery has 80+ % charge (by the little indicator lights). If one of the battery cables is loose, I can easily tighten it up, but don't want to get stranded on a long ride. If I don't find a loose battery cable, should I consider replacing the battery? Is this something I could so, or do I need to have the Dealer do it? How much can I expect to pay for a new battery and installation?

By the way, this is the first and only time this has happened...always starts right up, Even during the really cold days, I'd start her up and let her run for 5 minutes every couple of days.

By your description I would look at a loose or corroded battery connection first. Also make sure the negative jumper post under the seat is tight.

A battery can suddenly go bad, but it suddenly does not get better. If you think the battery is getting weak. Sure get a new one, but it will not fix the trouble you are having.

[ARtraveler]

I stopped to gas up my 2012 RT-SE5, shut off the bike, turned the key and lifted the seat. Turned the key back to insert position, as always. Filled 'er up, closed the seat...turned the key and NOTHING...blank screen, no self-check, nothing. Kill switch in "on" position, trans. in N. NOTHING! Couldn't even pop off the e-brake or open the frunk. A guy offered to give me a jump, and surprisingly, that WORKED! Screen came on, went thru self-check and started as though everything was okay.

I have no way to test the battery, but have had it on a "tender" throughout the winter, connected via the cigar. lighter in the back compartment...always hot. The tender indicates the battery has 80+ % charge (by the little indicator lights). If one of the battery cables is loose, I can easily tighten it up, but don't want to get stranded on a long ride. If I don't find a loose battery cable, should I consider replacing the battery? Is this something I could so, or do I need to have the Dealer do it? How much can I expect to pay for a new battery and installation?

By the way, this is the first and only time this has happened...always starts right up, Even during the really cold days, I'd start her up and let her run for 5 minutes every couple of days.


Running the machine for 5 minutes every couple days could cause some problems for the :ani29:. Five minutes does not get the engine fully warmed up. You need about a half hour of road running for that. The battery is also not going to charge in five minutes time. You are likely depleting the battery and going to end up with a dead one soon. :thumbup:

[solidgranite]

By your description I would look at a loose or corroded battery connection first. Also make sure the negative jumper post under the seat is tight.

A battery can suddenly go bad, but it suddenly does not get better. If you think the battery is getting weak. Sure get a new one, but it will not fix the trouble you are having.

That's good advice. Thanks! I borrowed a multi-meter and checked the voltage. It read 12, so it appears that the battery is okay. Hopefully its a loose connection of either the positive or negative battery connection cables, or maybe a corroded connector. I sure hope so because that's something I can fix. ;) If its something more complicated, like loose or bad connections in the ignition module, its way out of my league. I'm hoping for the simple and direct fix. Thanks again...

[solidgranite]

[/B]Running the machine for 5 minutes every couple days could cause some problems for the :ani29:. Five minutes does not get the engine fully warmed up. You need about a half hour of road running for that. The battery is also not going to charge in five minutes time. You are likely depleting the battery and going to end up with a dead one soon. :thumbup:

YOW! I thought starting and running her every couple of days would be a good thing, especially on those days when I can't actually ride her (ice and snow, etc.). But if its causing harm, I'll stop doing that immediately. And I sure don't want to have to replace the battery because I did something stupid...LOL Thanks for the advice!

[billybovine]

That's good advice. Thanks! I borrowed a multi-meter and checked the voltage. It read 12, so it appears that the battery is okay. Hopefully its a loose connection of either the positive or negative battery connection cables, or maybe a corroded connector. I sure hope so because that's something I can fix. ;) If its something more complicated, like loose or bad connections in the ignition module, its way out of my league. I'm hoping for the simple and direct fix. Thanks again...
.

At 12V that's less than 50% charge. You need to get it to 12.6 or higher.

Also running the engine for short periods in the winter will put a lot of water into the engine oil. There it chemically reacts with the other byproducts of combustion to make acid.

[Bob Denman]

If that is the original battery: do yourself a favor, and buy your RT a new one!
It's already done it's bit for "King & County"...Retire it!

[PMK]

Sure sounds like the Main Fuse, 40 amp has failed, regardless of appearance, unless as mentioned the wiring pulled loose from a connector.

The 40 amp powers the main relay and also the display.

[solidgranite]

Sure sounds like the Main Fuse, 40 amp has failed, regardless of appearance, unless as mentioned the wiring pulled loose from a connector.

The 40 amp powers the main relay and also the display.

Good suggestion...but if the Main Fuse was blown, would the bike start with jumper cables? Mine did.

[solidgranite]

If that is the original battery: do yourself a favor, and buy your RT a new one!
It's already done it's bit for "King & County"...Retire it!

Since I bought the bike used, I don't know the age of the battery. If I can get it done for a reasonable price at the dealer, its probably a good idea to put in a new one anyway. I plan on some long trips this summer, and don't want to get stranded.

I removed the battery cover plate yesterday, but couldn't see a date on the battery. Is there a date stamp or indicator of the battery's age? I checked to make sure the connections were tight, and even snugged them up a bit. I also made sure no other wires or connectors were touching the Positive battery connector (to avoid possible shorts).
The bike started right up after all this...so I'm thinking its either an old battery or a loose connection somewhere. My local dealer charges a fortune, so tracing down a loose connection or short could be really expensive! I'm hoping its just an old battery past its prime.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Good suggestion...but if the Main Fuse was blown, would the bike start with jumper cables? Mine did.
NO, the fuse is like a switch if it's blown no electricity goes past it .......Mike :thumbup:

[billybovine]

Good suggestion...but if the Main Fuse was blown, would the bike start with jumper cables? Mine did.
.

I think PMK was not answering your question but the original posters question. Your problem and the OP's problem are not the same. So the answers will not be the same for both. That's what happens when you Hijack someone elses thread. It gets confusing. May I suggest in future when you have a question about your Spyder. Please start your own thread.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Since I bought the bike used, I don't know the age of the battery. If I can get it done for a reasonable price at the dealer, its probably a good idea to put in a new one anyway. I plan on some long trips this summer, and don't want to get stranded.

I removed the battery cover plate yesterday, but couldn't see a date on the battery. Is there a date stamp or indicator of the battery's age? I checked to make sure the connections were tight, and even snugged them up a bit. I also made sure no other wires or connectors were touching the Positive battery connector (to avoid possible shorts).
The bike started right up after all this...so I'm thinking its either an old battery or a loose connection somewhere. My local dealer charges a fortune, so tracing down a loose connection or short could be really expensive! I'm hoping its just an old battery past its prime.
When I bought my NEW RT the Dealer didn't charge the New battery properly :banghead::banghead: ...... so now it won't hold a Charge PROPERLY .... I MUST keep it on a Maintainer because otherwise it has failed to start :banghead::banghead: ...... Get a Yuasa batt. and properly charge it yourself ..... You can get a minimum of 5 years maybe 7 if maintained correctly ..... Mike :thumbup:

[billybovine]

Since I bought the bike used, I don't know the age of the battery. If I can get it done for a reasonable price at the dealer, its probably a good idea to put in a new one anyway. I plan on some long trips this summer, and don't want to get stranded.

I removed the battery cover plate yesterday, but couldn't see a date on the battery. Is there a date stamp or indicator of the battery's age? I checked to make sure the connections were tight, and even snugged them up a bit. I also made sure no other wires or connectors were touching the Positive battery connector (to avoid possible shorts).
The bike started right up after all this...so I'm thinking its either an old battery or a loose connection somewhere. My local dealer charges a fortune, so tracing down a loose connection or short could be really expensive! I'm hoping its just an old battery past its prime.
.

Again by your symtoms. The problem is not with the battery. But if you want to put in a new battery go ahead. It won't fix anything. How old the battery is not that important. There is a reasonably high failure rate for new batteries.

Take the side panels off. Remove the battery. Take it to a battery or auto parts store. Trade it in for a new one. If you are curious if the old one was good. Have it load tested. They can tell you in minutes if it was good or not. Most places for free.

[PMK]

.

I think PMK was not answering your question but the original posters question. Your problem and the OP's problem are not the same. So the answers will not be the same for both. That's what happens when you Hijack someone elses thread. It gets confusing. May I suggest in future when you have a question about your Spyder. Please start your own thread.

Regarding the OP question, I did give a very quick look to the wiring diagram, and I believe that fuse, and possibly a relay further downstream will kill it dead if failed.

Maybe wrong, BB will know if. I missed it. All good.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

That's good advice. Thanks! I borrowed a multi-meter and checked the voltage. It read 12, so it appears that the battery is okay. Hopefully its a loose connection of either the positive or negative battery connection cables, or maybe a corroded connector. I sure hope so because that's something I can fix. ;) If its something more complicated, like loose or bad connections in the ignition module, its way out of my league. I'm hoping for the simple and direct fix. Thanks again...
Voltage by itself doesn't tell you much. A near dead battery will show good voltage. What matters is the voltage when there is a load on it. Measure it when you push the start button.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

[trikermutha]

You can tell when a battery is weak but load testing it will give you better results.

[billybovine]

Regarding the OP question, I did give a very quick look to the wiring diagram, and I believe that fuse, and possibly a relay further downstream will kill it dead if failed.

Maybe wrong, BB will know if. I missed it. All good.

Base on the description that nothing happens when the key is turned on. There are 2 different main fuses involved. J4 in the RFB. That powers the running lights and there are no relays in that circuit. On with the key. Then there is J4 in the LFB that powers everything else. The odds that 2 main fuses are burnt out at the same time I think are not very likely, but anything is possible. Only common factors are the battery and both circuits go through the ignition switch. That all I can see anyway.

[PaladinLV]

Correct AND a bad battery does not accept a charge correctly.
Ergo the problem SHOULD be either the ignition switch itself of a cable connected to the ignition switch.

Will know in @ 24 hours :)

AJ


Base on the description that nothing happens when the key is turned on. There are 2 different main fuses involved. J4 in the RFB. That powers the running lights and there are no relays in that circuit. On with the key. Then there is J4 in the LFB that powers everything else. The odds that 2 main fuses are burnt out at the same time I think are not very likely, but anything is possible. Only common factors are the battery and both circuits go through the ignition switch. That all I can see anyway.

[Al Gully]

I Just bought a Spyder, eagerly waiting for the outcome.

[rcturner]

You can tell when a battery is weak but load testing it will give you better results.

One of the old rules in batteries is "if it tests bad, it is bad. If it test good, it could still be bad.) You really cannot do an accurate test that will always simulate every possibility of real life for a battery. Replace it or at least try another one with the original disconnected.

[jaherbst]

When I bought my NEW RT the Dealer didn't charge the New battery properly :banghead::banghead: ...... so now it won't hold a Charge PROPERLY .... I MUST keep it on a Maintainer because otherwise it has failed to start :banghead::banghead: ...... Get a Yuasa batt. and properly charge it yourself ..... You can get a minimum of 5 years maybe 7 if maintained correctly ..... Mike :thumbup:

Not here in AZ or where the temps are 100+ for 5-6 months of the year. If batteries last three years you can consider yourself lucky. We change all of our batteries every 2.5 - 3.5 years. The excess heat when riding or driving here kills batteries quickly. For those living in S CA, AZ and TX take heed. Just put new battery in my truck yesterday.

Jack

[trikermutha]

One of the old rules in batteries is "if it tests bad, it is bad. If it test good, it could still be bad.) You really cannot do an accurate test that will always simulate every possibility of real life for a battery. Replace it or at least try another one with the original disconnected.

Majority of the time "BAD" connections are the issue and not a battery problem. The percentage is very low that you cannot find a weak or bad battery while testing it. :thumbup:

Charging a battery incorrectly can lead to a shorter life span.

[Highwayman2013]

Got to load test the battery before going to more complicated things. Let us know AJ.

[quasi]

batteries can be checked with a multimeter all one wants to. if there is not an actual load test then it doesn't mean a whole lot.

[PaladinLV]

Absolutely and the same here in Las Vegas ;)

AJ



Not here in AZ or where the temps are 100+ for 5-6 months of the year. If batteries last three years you can consider yourself lucky. We change all of our batteries every 2.5 - 3.5 years. The excess heat when riding or driving here kills batteries quickly. For those living in S CA, AZ and TX take heed. Just put new battery in my truck yesterday.

Jack

[solidgranite]

.

Again by your symtoms. The problem is not with the battery. But if you want to put in a new battery go ahead. It won't fix anything. How old the battery is not that important. There is a reasonably high failure rate for new batteries.

Take the side panels off. Remove the battery. Take it to a battery or auto parts store. Trade it in for a new one. If you are curious if the old one was good. Have it load tested. They can tell you in minutes if it was good or not. Most places for free.

I'll do that. Hopefully my manual shows how to remove the panels. The battery cover was a bear to remove, even with the seat up all the way. I'm hoping the issue is as simple as replacing the battery.

[PaladinLV]

With 52 years of riding, this isn't my first Rodeo, pilgrim. :p
and that's one reason a VOM has the capability to check current.

AJ


batteries can be checked with a multimeter all one wants to. if there is not an actual load test then it doesn't mean a whole lot.

[solidgranite]

Got to load test the battery before going to more complicated things. Let us know AJ.

To do a load test, I should start the bike, then check the voltage with the multi-meter while its running, right? If I had another set of hands, I could measure the voltage while the bike was starting, but the meter has points, not clips so I have to hold them against the terminals.

[solidgranite]

.

I think PMK was not answering your question but the original posters question. Your problem and the OP's problem are not the same. So the answers will not be the same for both. That's what happens when you Hijack someone elses thread. It gets confusing. May I suggest in future when you have a question about your Spyder. Please start your own thread.

I'm sorry about that. My symptoms sounds the same as the OP's, so I thought I could jump in and learn if his solution would be mine, too. In the future, I will start my own thread. No offense meant...:opps:

[billybovine]

To do a load test, I should start the bike, then check the voltage with the multi-meter while its running, right? If I had another set of hands, I could measure the voltage while the bike was starting, but the meter has points, not clips so I have to hold them against the terminals.

There are 2 ways to load test a battery.

1. Make sure the battery is charged at least 80%. That means a 12.6V minimum at rest for an hour. Connect a high quality voltmeter to the battery. Set the voltmeter to measure and record the minimum voltage. With the ignition switch on and mode button pushed ready to start. Twist the throttle to full open position and hold. Press and hold the start button for 5 seconds. The engine will crank for 5 seconds but will not start. Check the minimum voltage the voltmeter recorded. If it did not fall below 10V. The battery is considered good. If the voltage falls below 10 V The battery may be bad, the starter may be bad or there is something wrong in the engine. In most cases it will be the battery. I will let you in a little secret here. If the system voltage drops below 10V the gauge cluster will shutdown and reboot. That will tell you if the battery is not charged or bad. Also could be the starter or engine is the problem.

2. Charge the battery. Take it to an auto parts or battery store. Have them load test it with a dedicated load tester. Most offer this as a free service. So if the minimum voltage falls below 10V get a new battery. But now you know it is only the battery that is the problem and nothing else. If it passes the problem is elsewhere.

[Highwayman2013]

To do a load test, I should start the bike, then check the voltage with the multi-meter while its running, right? If I had another set of hands, I could measure the voltage while the bike was starting, but the meter has points, not clips so I have to hold them against the terminals.

I have a load tester I got at an auto parts store. You go by the cranking amp rating then hold the load switch down and read the meter.

[quasi]

With 52 years of riding, this isn't my first Rodeo, pilgrim. :p
and that's one reason a VOM has the capability to check current.

AJ

I stand corrected sir! oh, and i'm not old enuff to be a pilgrim, wasn't around then! :):D

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

To do a load test, I should start the bike, then check the voltage with the multi-meter while its running, right?
No. Do like Billy said. You need to see the voltage while the starter is pulling the current. That will be many, many, more times than what it is when the bike is running, plus the alternator will be charging when the bike is running. The voltage then will be over 13.

[PaladinLV]

It's a shame that some people either misinterpreted what I WROTE or no comprendo.

Regardless, PROBLEM FOUND - BAD IGNITION switch!

Awaiting part and will be back on the road in a few days.

The first three steps in troubleshooting any type of problem come from the human senses of seeing, hearing, and smelling.
Guess maybe they don't teach that in tech schools anymore.

AJ

[Peteoz]

It's a shame that some people either misinterpreted what I WROTE or no comprendo.

Regardless, PROBLEM FOUND - BAD IGNITION switch!

Awaiting part and will be back on the road in a few days.

The first three steps in troubleshooting any type of problem come from the human senses of seeing, hearing, and smelling.
Guess maybe they don't teach that in tech schools anymore.

AJ

You should have trusted what Paladin wrote in his first post, AJ:ohyea: You could have saved yourself a LOT of aggravation :gaah:

p.s. Did you ever own a Vulcan 2000?

Pete

[PaladinLV]

Switched from the Harley world Pete after more years then I can remember!
But had my share of Honda, Triumph, BSA, Norton, and even a Moto Guzzi pre Harley :)

AJ

You should have trusted what Paladin wrote in his first post, AJ:ohyea: You could have saved yourself a LOT of aggravation :gaah:

p.s. Did you ever own a Vulcan 2000?

Pete

[Bob Denman]

I'm glad to hear that the problem has been found, and is being fixed! :clap:
(:shocked: All those new keys....)

[Highwayman2013]

It's a shame that some people either misinterpreted what I WROTE or no comprendo.

Regardless, PROBLEM FOUND - BAD IGNITION switch!

Awaiting part and will be back on the road in a few days.

The first three steps in troubleshooting any type of problem come from the human senses of seeing, hearing, and smelling.
Guess maybe they don't teach that in tech schools anymore.

AJ
Glad you found it and it's getting fixed.

[Peteoz]

Switched from the Harley world Pete after more years then I can remember!
But had my share of Honda, Triumph, BSA, Norton, and even a Moto Guzzi pre Harley :)

AJ

Ahhhh. Thanks AJ. Your responses bear a striking similarity to another AJ who was a member of the US Vulcan 2000 group. There must be more than one AJ in the US.:roflblack:

Pete