Why isnt' the Spyder more popular!

[daveinva]

My thoughts, repeated:

-- Having had the RS for a year with the "sporty" position and then three years with the "standard" (footboard and risers) position, there is no question in my mind that the Spyder handles corners FAR better from a standard position than a sport position. It's not even debatable, IMHO.

The reasons why a sport position works for a sport motorcycle is directly related to a sport bike's geometry and rake, as well as the need to counter-steer. There's no equivalent distinction between a Spyder RS and a Spyder RT-- they're the same geometry, you just sit on them differently. Similarly, the single most important Spyder rider-controlled factor in high-speed handling-- getting your butt off that seat and shifted to the inside-- is far easier to transition quickly and smoothly when your feet are flat* on boards and you aren't (needlessly) leaned forward. That sport position may "feel" fun to some, but it's all in your head.

* I say flat except I keep my heels on my "sport pegs," using my toes on the footboard to shift my weight. I cheat.

-- A quad doesn't have a nanny because a quad has four wheels, and is not intended for road travel at road speeds on cambered roads. A snowmobile doesn't have a nanny because a snowmobile only has one "wheel", and is incapable of road travel.

Finally, aside from the fact that overwhelming majority of conventional trikes are after-market conversions, I know of no conventional trike rider that would argue that they handle *better* than a Spyder, i.e. the fact that a conventional trike doesn't have a nanny to stop you from going goblin isn't a selling point, for Pete's sake.

Anyway, I'm all for tweaking the Spyder nanny-- the F3 sounds like a step in a fun direction-- but I trust the engineers and demo riders: you're simply not riding the Spyder at sound speeds in anything other than a straight line without it.

P.S. Will somebody disconnect their nanny already and experiment for the group? There are YEARS of these threads already, endless armchair arguments proclaiming the stupidity of Bosch and the legal-cowardice of BRP. I've seen it explained here before at Spyderlovers how to disconnect the nanny if folks are inclined to make the effort. Do it, already-- DO IT FOR SCIENCE!

[DrewNJ]

My thoughts, repeated:

-- Having had the RS for a year with the "sporty" position and then three years with the "standard" (footboard and risers) position, there is no question in my mind that the Spyder handles corners FAR better from a standard position than a sport position. It's not even debatable, IMHO.

The reasons why a sport position works for a sport motorcycle is directly related to a sport bike's geometry and rake, as well as the need to counter-steer. There's no equivalent distinction between a Spyder RS and a Spyder RT-- they're the same geometry, you just sit on them differently. Similarly, the single most important Spyder rider-controlled factor in high-speed handling-- getting your butt off that seat and shifted to the inside-- is far easier to transition quickly and smoothly when your feet are flat* on boards and you aren't (needlessly) leaned forward. That sport position may "feel" fun to some, but it's all in your head.

* I say flat except I keep my heels on my "sport pegs," using my toes on the footboard to shift my weight. I cheat. [emoji14]

-- A quad doesn't have a nanny because a quad has four wheels, and is not intended for road travel at road speeds on cambered roads. A snowmobile doesn't have a nanny because a snowmobile only has one "wheel", and is incapable of road travel.

Finally, aside from the fact that overwhelming majority of conventional trikes are after-market conversions, I know of no conventional trike rider that would argue that they handle *better* than a Spyder, i.e. the fact that a conventional trike doesn't have a nanny to stop you from going goblin isn't a selling point, for Pete's sake.

Anyway, I'm all for tweaking the Spyder nanny-- the F3 sounds like a step in a fun direction-- but I trust the engineers and demo riders: you're simply not riding the Spyder at sound speeds in anything other than a straight line without it.

P.S. Will somebody disconnect their nanny already and experiment for the group? There are YEARS of these threads already, endless armchair arguments proclaiming the stupidity of Bosch and the legal-cowardice of BRP. I've seen it explained here before at Spyderlovers how to disconnect the nanny if folks are inclined to make the effort. Do it, already-- DO IT FOR SCIENCE! [emoji106]

Keep in mind the RS foot position is far from sport bike position and more similar to sport touring. Really your feet are right under your ass putting you in a squat position, so its easy to move off the seat for good body position. The RT and ST are doable but more difficult. The f3, forget about it, your stuck in that seat.

What do you want to know about riding a spyder without a nanny? I've ridden 3. One that is a full Aprilia RSV drivetrain/electronic conversion, one that is all spyder mechanically except running RSV electronics, and one completely stock other than some bolt ons (mine) on 2 different track days with everything completely disabled and the dash lit up and scrolling while in melt down mode.
While I wouldn't recommend it for day to day riding, its NOT like a lawn dart where you fear for your life just being on it....
There are much scarier machines out there stock right off the showroom floor.

[Oldmanzues]

There was a post on here a long time ago, a female wanted to ride a motorcycle. Her boyfriend or husband(forget which demanded she ride a HD or nothing. She was sacred to death. Which is better to ride something you like/feel comfortable with or ride scared with a much better chance of killing or hurting yourself ??
Long time associate membr of GWRRA (joke, never old enought to own a Wing, among oldest in chapter) and riding for 60+ years. I have seen more then one Wing owne rkeep on two wheels way too long. When you feel uncomfortable or drop your bike at stoplight, something should change. I saw one gentleman drop one in a line of parked Wings, missed the one next to him by inches, how many other ???
My last two wheeler was a ST1100, Sport Tourer, around 70 K on it, changed with a few pocket rockets for gas to gas runs, kept my My ST. Rode several trikes and liked the Spyder the best, 08 GS,toured on it, bought a 2010 RT and toured more. Ride what you like, disagree with others maybe, but why come on a forum for what you dislike and keep pushing your dislike. ??

People with Short inseams ride trikes a lot.
end of rant for now
Oldmanzues

[isthatahemi]

Offense may or may not have been intended, but to call those of us who like the F3 design "poseurs with bad taste" is patently offensive. My RT is not a geriatric conveyance (nor is my friend's Goldwing). You don't have to ride what you don't like or want to ride, but your taste also doesn't speak for your generation.

I looked at one of your other posts - you are sports bike rider who loves sports bikes. If you have such a strong dislike of what Spyders are, then they probably aren't for you. I doubt you'll ever be happy comparing them to sports bikes because they aren't sports bikes. Why set yourself up to be constantly disappointed?

In any event, you are quite entitled to your opinions, and you have the right to speak freely. I simply hope you develop the maturity to do so with intelligence and grace.

Thanks for for making my point. My sincere apologies for my lack of grace.
Oh, and I haven't ridden a sportbike in 18 years, so let's no make too many assumptions. I just don't like that my choices outside of the 2 wheeled world consist of a neutered 3 wheeler, or a conversion, which in my opinion, look terrible. I don't mince words, and other than a shoddy delivery, my points were valid. I'm in between the young and need to be dangerous, and the old (and apparently financial success happens later in life). I have the disposable income to buy what I want, through life choices and hard work. I think the spyder rocks, I just don't agree with the over exuberant nanny. None of my other toys have that, and if you think you are hanging with a sportbike on a Spyder, well that's just kooky talk. I don't care if I'm keeping up, the fun in many machines is pushing ones OWN limits, high or low. Don't get me wrong, I WANT. the stability control, just not one that is so intrusive. Small details make a big difference, and for the record, 2 guys i snowmobile with have refused to be seen (there words) with my "3 wheeler abomination." They were likely kidding..... But you get the point.

and I digress

[isthatahemi]

But this guy isn't 25, he's 35. He's not a Millennial. He's old enough to be a bonafide adult. Can you imagine what his employer must cope with what he likely says behind their backs.

He also sounds very much like somebody who might not make it all the way to retirement in one piece, which he may consider a compliment. After all, it isn't cool to be safe. Being dead, after all, is very cool, and that much anger taken on to the road is a well known short cut to death or serious injury.

Classy post. Way to go straight to ad hominem. You may disagree with my opinions, but you sir, are a person of low character. You are acting as if I insulted your parentage or something?
EDIT*** What I do for a living is not really relevant, hence the edit.
Alienating people who get personal and insulting is definitely a plus on my day and not a minus. Your opinions are always welcome, your insults? Well you should evaluate why you can't keep them to yourself. Happy trails.

[isthatahemi]

One last thing...... There is no accounting for taste, or preference, so my comments about the F3 could just mean I have bad taste, right?
But, it is not a "sport" machine, even with the VSC envelope broadened, it is more of a style / cruiser machine. It's front end and profile look terrible to me and everyone I have spoken to about them. One thing about sport bikes, and most bikes on general, is they look lithe and purpose built, and until BRP does a trike like that, fully unencumbered, it's demographic in general, won't change. Which means I wont be riding with my contemporaries, which sucks for me.
Hopefully we can't keep arguing about this without invoking some sort of caste system.

[dfwbiker]

What ever you call it, it is fun to ride I have dibeties and due to weak legs a 3 wheeler is a must for me now , I have been riding my own motorcycle scense 1946 and it was a new Famous James 125 villers eng. I have had many bikes of all types and models over the years @ 83 my spyder is a must for me >>>

[PistonBlown]

If you want a faster Spyder. Take one RS SM which has the closest riding position to a sports bike. Fit a beefed up sway bar, shocks and add some grippy tyres. Then contact the guy that I've mentioned before in Auckland, New Zealand who knows how to remap the engine and reduce/override the nanny.

The fun bit for me about riding any bike, including the Spyder, is getting the maximum I can out of it within the llimitations it sets. Give me a moped or a sportsbike and I'll have just as much, if different, fun.

[missouriboy]

What ever you call it, it is fun to ride I have dibeties and due to weak legs a 3 wheeler is a must for me now , I have been riding my own motorcycle scense 1946 and it was a new Famous James 125 villers eng. I have had many bikes of all types and models over the years @ 83 my spyder is a must for me >>>

Hey! My first bike was also a Famous James, a 1947 model. But I didn't get it until the mid-fifties. I also rode some friends' bikes: an Indian 74 and a 650 Triumph a little bit. But those bikes were too big for me.

Nothing but 3-wheelers now for me too. I did ride a 2-wheeler to take and pass the Motorcycle Safety Course, to get my license endorsement, etc., but I never plan to ride one in traffic, ever again.

[vondalyn]

Hemi's got a point. What cracks me up though, is a lot of the old timers jumping from their full blown touring RT with all the storage, big windshield, and comfy seats to an F3 with none of that, only to try to figure out how to add baggage, bigger shield, etc etc.
Old people trying to feel young again?

I think your going to see a lot of farkled out used 15' f3 machines for sale over the next year or 2 as those same old people jump back to an RT.

It's the swiss army knife of spyders. I can add and remove the storage/windshield as needed. Also the nanny is so relaxed she barely wakes up. Only in one particular spot has she yawned and said "Heyyyyyyyyyyy. I'm gonna brake a little bit here for you." and then she goes back to sleep.

[robmorg]

I have been watching the progress of the Spyders since 2009 and what I have seen is more popularity and some much needed changes in design. The new 3 cylinder engine is a great choice along with the sporty styling of the F3.
I feel the biggest hurtle for any RT company to overcome is the stigma of a "trike". No matter what the style or layout the average individual will say "well when I get too old I will think about it"
This is the ingrained attitude which has been conveyed to the public since day one of standard 1-2 trike layouts. This is not to say the a 2-1 trike is not for older folks or people with difficulties but I feel this market is much bigger than the standard 1-2 trike market. Let's face it there is nothing sporty about a standard trike, they are big lumbering giants that steer badly.

Whenever people ask me how does your RT handle I first ask them if they have ever driven a snowmobile or ATV. Then I tell them if you ride a ATV or snowmobile you understand how much fun this can be.

RTwing,

You make some very good points, as did your demographics chart . If you don't mind sharing the URL of your website , I'd enjoy taking a look at it.

[MRH]

Hopefully we can't keep arguing about this without invoking some sort of caste system.

I will say this. Here we try to discuss instead of to argue. That may sound a lot like semantics, but it isn't. That's why I'm here instead of many other places.

If you like to understand my reaction, just imagine if you'd walked up to a group of motorcyclists you didn't know and used the same words in person as you did here. Would you really call them posers and their bikes ugly and geriatric?

Not that it doesn't happen in real life. Earlier this year, some guy on the street started yelling that I needed to sell my "ugly" bike and get a Harley, but he had a bottle in one hand and was clearly homeless. I think you may have felt pity for him had you been there, I did. There was no point in responding in any way.

In any group, respect is earned over time and it is always easier to speak with candor among friends.

[NoLmtz]

I'm going to blow your mind Well, maybe not, but let me pose a position! We are often our own worst enemy. We ask why the Spyder is not more popular... because we as owners are always comparing it to other things. Do Harley rides compare a Harley to a Goldwing... NO! It is what it is and they are confident and proud. When I ride, I don't wonder what other riders think of my Spyder because I know whether they say it or not, they're jealous!

I'm probably in the lower age bracket of current owner demographics (41) and I got a Spyder because it was comfortable and safe... and my wife would ride with me. I didn't grow up on motorcycles so I don't have a brainwashed mentality that freedom only exists on 2-wheels. I will tell you when I first rode my Spyder I was hooked... it's freedom. I truly understood the phrasing of 'the cage'. You see and experience everything!

So, while we wonder why it's not more popular, I feel the real concern is that folks fear BRP not being profitable to sustain the Spyder. I like the uniqueness of it as I ride through Dallas. When it becomes a commodity is when more people start getting hit!

People look at it and wonder... it excites their creativity and the 'what if'! Even yesterday my wife and I went to dinner and pulled up next to a pickup... the kid in the backstreet just about fell out the window yelling at his parents about how cool this thing was. When the light turned green, they didn't even move, they wanted to see me go in full glory! It happens every day I ride it! That's the magic of the Spyder... you don't get that with HD, Yamaha, Honda, etc. The Spyder is a fastlane to your childhood wonder and awe in an adult package that provides an amazing amount of freedom, not only for young people like me, but those that age and still want that wonder, also for those that gave more than just time in combat, etc. - it's truly liberating!

And then just a couple of days ago, I guy walked by in the parking garage and said "that's a mean looking bike!"

So, instead of wondering why it's not this or that... think of it in a different light - ITS A SPYDER AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS!!


Quick testimonial - My father-in-law was a hardcore HD rider. He's not that old but he didn't ride that much anymore. He kept seeing my Spyder and finally traded his HD in for an RT. He made the statement just last week "this Spyder was brought back the excitement of riding!"

Look I get HD riders have a persona, but most of them are weekend warriors with expendable income. There comes a time that they too will be seriously considering hanging up the bike or moving to 3-wheels... it just depends on how strong a person they are to hang up their false ego.

Mind blown... hahahahaha

[wyliec]

So, while we wonder why it's not more popular, I feel the real concern is that folks fear BRP not being profitable to sustain the Spyder.

First, I'm not picking on you. But, you mention of few things I wanted to comment on.

I have never wondered, and still don't, why the Spyder is not more popular, and never thought about whether it is or not. And, for the second part of the sentence, it reminds me of the kids story about chicken little and the sky is falling. I have more important things to think about.

As for 'hemi's' comments, I believe he/she knows how easy it is to get under someone's skin here, and he has done it. I actually think it's kind of funny; maybe because my Spyder is not the love of my life. However, I will say that I really like the looks of the F3 and may try to sell my 2008GS; notice I didn't say love.

[Bob Denman]

I just heard of another one of us making the RS-S to F-3 switch...

...But I'll let him do the announcing!

[PrairieSpyder]

Whew!! I was afraid we'd have to start talking about ice cream!!

[ARtraveler]

Since the thread has taken an interesting turn, may I add one more tidbit?

My first , 2008 GS, SM5 was purchased because I thought they were cool, different, and I just had to have one. I saw a "look what's coming soon" article in a motorcycle magazine in about September of 2007.

My current ride at the time was a Vulcan 2000cc LTD cruiser. An 850# behemoth and the largest 2 cylinder production engine made. The Triumph Rocket triple still remains as the biggest three cylinder at 2300cc.

At the time, the talk was that the was only going to be available at "select" dealers and in "select" states. Alaska was not one of the states, and my dealer was not one of the "select." Dealer has some pull with BRP because he sells the most Ski-Doos in the US. He told me not to worry--we would get 's.

I put up a $1,500 deposit in December of 2007. Our new 's arrived in June of 2008. I got the first one sold in Alaska, and the dealer got the other for himself. He got a couple more for stock. I wanted yellow, or red but ended up with Half Moon Silver--I believe it was a $400 "option" at the time. Semi autos were not yet available.

The dealer and I got into a kind of a contest over accessorizing the 's. We both ended up building RT's from scratch. I ended up with more accessories than him, but he put Corbin saddle bags on instead of Givi. We had some pretty nice looking RT's a year before the 2010's hit the road. They looked like RT's--but--did not ride like RT's. Both our spouses ended up with s'. Mine got a 2009 RS SE5. One of the first semi auto's available here.

And the story continues...

[GeoffCee]

Why isn't the Spyder more popular?

Well I can tell you that I'm extremely happy with my RT and that popularity I'm 100% sure of, which implies that I'm less sure what other people think of the Spyder. It's a complicated question.

If the great interest shown by the general population when I park up or buy gas anywhere is a true indication then I'd say that most people, regardless of age, see the Spyder as an attractive proposition, I'd say outstandingly so. However, many is the time I've seen people almost wince in pain and turn pale with shock at the moment they discover the cost of owning one. Ouch! For them I guess Spyder ownership becomes out of the question right there. No two-wheeler I've ever owned has had such a positive reaction from folks at first sight, nor such a negative one at its showroom price.

As pretty as Spyders are, I've never been at ease at the thought that each one costs the equivalent of two BMW touring bikes. Spyders would be more popular if they were more affordable. That may be a simple and very old idea but it's somewhere to start...

[jaherbst]

It's the swiss army knife of spyders. I can add and remove the storage/windshield as needed. Also the nanny is so relaxed she barely wakes up. Only in one particular spot has she yawned and said "Heyyyyyyyyyyy. I'm gonna brake a little bit here for you." and then she goes back to sleep.

I grew up in a poor family and we could not afford a Nanny. I like my Nanny it makes me feel prosperous and gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Jack

[wyliec]

I got the first one sold in Alaska, and the dealer got the other for himself. He got a couple more for stock. I wanted yellow, or red but ended up with Half Moon Silver--I believe it was a $400 "option" at the time. Semi autos were not yet available.

I don't think I'll upset too many now; but, of the three original colors, I cannot believe they charged a $400 premium for that Half Moon Silver. IMHO, the 2 best colors were the red and yellow (in that order), regarding the 2008 and 2009's.

[brerrabbit]

I'm glad to see the rhetoric has cooled back down. I thought I was on the Harley forum several times as I read through this. We have two trikes, one is a TriGlide and one is an RT so I 'attend' sites for both brands.

I think the popularity issue for trike style bikes is rider education. Just as you can't learn to ride a motorcycle by reading a book, you can't understand riding a trike by riding a bike. The are two different animals with a similar result. The 'geriatric' reputation will eventually spread to a younger audience. Both Harley and Can-AM have introduced a trike this year to attract a younger rider in my opinion.

Why isn't the Spyder more popular? The brand is less than 8 years old. It is still growing up and being honed to perfection. It just needs a little more time. That said, since we bought the Spyder, we have had more people stop and talk to my wife, the Spyder rider, at the gas pump and wave and stare than we ever had with the TriGlide. We are seeing more Spyders on the road this spring than the last couple of years. I think the Spyder is a very popular machine. We have asked the salesman at the dealership for a stack of business cards to hand out so we can get back to riding vs. reciting the address of the dealer over and over.

By the way we both love our rides.

=bob=

[Rob Rodriguez]

This is where BRP could take a look at expanding their market

Put the 600 ACE engine into a chassis, with a CVT drive system.
Simplify the gauge package, and make it a purely entry-level ride.
Use that bike to "set the hook"!
Since it would largely be a "Parts Bin" engineering exercise; the cost to build that bike would be MUCH lower!

I think the 600 ACE engine would be a bad move. That engine can barely power a 500 lb sled to decent performance levels. I have to think it would be severely under powered for a Spyder weighing 200-300 lbs more. Entry level or not, if the bike doesn't offer acceptable performance its not going to "bait the hook". It's going to push people in another direction. It might even be fair to say the 998 doesn't offer enough performance for a "sport" version Spyder (RS, RSS) and that's why they aren't more popular with a younger buyer.

[GeoffCee]

So, just to be clear, BRP states that the Spyder is not a motorcycle? That's just not correct. It is as much a motorcycle as a Harley trike, which is certainly considered a motorcycle. A Spyder or any trike/sidecar rig definitely handles completely differently than a two wheeled cycle, but is still a cycle. Just my two cents worth.

Here in the UK a cycle is neither a vehicle nor a means of locomotion. The word "cycle" is commonly used to describe a cycle of activity which itself may contain multi-stage events. A cycle begins and continues until all the stages of the event(s) are complete. Completion describes one complete cycle of the process.

A one-wheeled vehicle is a unicycle.
A two-wheeled vehicle is a bicycle.
A three-wheeled vehicle is a tricycle.

My MOT Registration Document describes my 998cc Spyder as a motorized tricycle. It is a concise and accurate use of the English language leaving little room for doubt as to the nature of the vehicle. This is a description agreed and standardized among the Nations of the European Community to ease cross-border travel.

I'm aware that many differences exist in the common use of the English language between the UK and the USA. If HD want to call their tricycles motorcycles they are at liberty to do so - nobody on this side of the pond will dare argue with that!

[ArachnidRyder]

I'm aware that many differences exist in the common use of the English language between the UK and the USA. If HD want to call their tricycles motorcycles they are at liberty to do so - nobody on this side of the pond will dare argue with that!

Completely agree with the differences between English and American. [emoji1] I was quite shocked the first time I heard a British gentleman say he was stepping into the alley for a (British slang term for a cigarette). It was an awkward moment to say the least.

Is there a British equivalent to the term "frunk" derived from the American "front trunk"?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm aware that many differences exist in the common use of the English language between the UK and the USA.

I believe it was your legendary Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, who is reported to have the said something on the order, "America and England, two great peoples separated by a common language!"

I lived in Birmingham for a year in 1988/89 and worked for the Ministry of Defence. I always got a good chuckle out of the Brits when I said, "I can understand you guys mispronouncing aluminum as alu min i um, because you spell it that way! But, left tenant out of l - i - e - u -, ...?" That was a great year working with your fellow citizens. I cherish the memory of it as one of the highlights of my life.