Aggressive riding in the curves question

[wyliec]

I rely on my self preservation. If it feels like I riding near or over my limits, I'll downshift or tap the brakes. I have a GS.

I always wonder when someone says that you can usually double the speed signage given for a curve. I've been on curves posted for 50 mph, does that mean the spyder can take it safely at 100 mph?

[Fat Baxter]

I've always wondered: has anyone actually flipped a Spyder in a too-hard turn? (Aside from running off the road first, then flipping in the rough stuff.) If it's technically impossible to flip a Spyder, I think that would be a good marketing point.

Of course, that presumes you have the courage to hang in there and not lose it in a curve -- keep those handlebars cranked over! I occasionally push it in a turn, and am surprised with what the Spyder can do.

I liken Spyder riding to snow skiing: you have to trust your equipment.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

I've always wondered: has anyone actually flipped a Spyder in a too-hard turn? (Aside from running off the road first, then flipping in the rough stuff.) If it's technically impossible to flip a Spyder, I think that would be a good marketing point.

Of course, that presumes you have the courage to hang in there and not lose it in a curve -- keep those handlebars cranked over! I occasionally push it in a turn, and am surprised with what the Spyder can do.

I liken Spyder riding to snow skiing: you have to trust your equipment.

I recently was pushing Cocaine in a turn. I had just put my Federal Evos on and I had been doing 35 and 40 mph over the speed limit in most turns. I decided to hit a 35 mph turn doing 80. It was a flat turn and I didnt dive down to the center line quite as close as I wanted. I kept my speed up since she was really running tight that afternoon. I was trying to keep steady pressure on the bars to turn but apparently 45 over was a bit too much for that turn. Cocaine finally broke loose and I got sideways with the tires squeeling and smoking. I guess if I didnt turn over then, it probably wont ever happen. 🤞

[kep-up]

I recently was pushing Cocaine in a turn. I had just put my Federal Evos on and I had been doing 35 and 40 mph over the speed limit in most turns. I decided to hit a 35 mph turn doing 80. It was a flat turn and I didnt dive down to the center line quite as close as I wanted. I kept my speed up since she was really running tight that afternoon. I was trying to keep steady pressure on the bars to turn but apparently 45 over was a bit too much for that turn. Cocaine finally broke loose and I got sideways with the tires squeeling and smoking. I guess if I didnt turn over then, it probably wont ever happen. 🤞

35 to 40 over the posted recommendation? REALLY? On an RT? I need to learn your set-up!

[wyliec]

Maybe I don't quite understand a few things. Am I reading the posts correctly when you are basically saying you can hit a curve as fast as you want; there's no chance of going off the road because the nanny protects you in all instances? The second thing is what is a turn versus a curve. To me a turn is typically 90 degrees or less, what you normally find on city streets. So, when someone mentions double the posted speed in a turn, are you actually in a curve? If it's a curve, then I can understand hitting it at double the posted speed, depending on the curve, like a wide sweeper. I'm actually not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but when you are giving advice to someone who is new to the spyder, he/she may not know the type curve/turn you are talking about.

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff. What I do use is my body. I am either leaning pretty good or hanging off the side of the bike. That and my desire to go as fast as I can using the best cornering techniques that I can. I dont use the nanny as a fail safe to save my butt. My goal is to not have her make an appearance. I usually meet that goal. And I am not advising new riders to try this. Ive been riding 2 1/2 years on a Spyder and I am still learning. As they say, dont try this at home folks. Do what you are comfortable doing, not what others say they do.

As far as the definition of turns is concerned, I aint riding city streets at 35 or 40 mph over the speed limit. Im talking country roads, but not wide sweepers. Anyone can ride a wide sweeper 30 or 35 over the limit. But when I am really feeling "it", I will pull a 35 or 40 mph turn at 40 over. 40 over seems to be my limit currently. I will have half my butt off the bike, leaning out as far as I can. I dont do it all the time but I am generally going 30 over. I have been called crazy by my friends for the way I sometimes ride, but I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or dont believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.

Funny thing is, when Pebbles is on board, I am happy doing 5 or 10 over the limit so she is comfortable. I just want to ride.

[blacklightning]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff.
I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or don't believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.

That is what I don't understand. Everyone always talks about how much you need shocks, and the aftermarket swaybar, etc. I know for a fact that the 2014 and up RT is more than capable. And to date, I have not come across another spyder rider that has all these after market parts that can leave me. Now that I have my F3T, I am really looking for those aftermarket believers to see what they can do.
As for the last comment, I believe the little girl with the rabbit eared hat on Bob's Burgers said it best. "The best part of living is almost dying, it's called almost live dying."

[PrairieSpyder]

Speed limits? They have speed limits on curves?

[ARtraveler]

Back in post #16 I posted what I believe is conservative information for safe riding of twisties. I went back and highlighted that +20 is doable but I am more comfortable with +10 on posted curves.

Keep safe out there and ride the ride that you are in control with. Exceeding that place can cause injuries to self as well as others. On one of our last MC group rides with the club, we watched a lady go over the center line many times on the Old Glenn Highway--full of tight twisties--we decided it was time to leave the group. We went to the back of the pack that night in order to stay out of trouble. Fortunately, there was none.

Lecture Button: OFF

[IGETAROUND]

To the OP: might want to take your bike to a BIG parking lot and find out what your nanny feels like. Just a tad safer way to experience pushing the limits than on mountain roads. FWIW and double back what you paid for it!!

[kngfsh27]

I had Ron's sway bar and shock adjusters. Last year I went up into South Dakota. I knew that I had really pushed it on my '14 RTL when the morning after I got home both front tires were flat. After that, my wife was not comfortable with it . It was a great ride. Yes it was. I never had the nanny kick in.

[Navy Warrant]

My set up is stock, except for car tires all around. No swaybar, no stiffeners, none of that extra stuff. What I do use is my body. I am either leaning pretty good or hanging off the side of the bike. That and my desire to go as fast as I can using the best cornering techniques that I can. I dont use the nanny as a fail safe to save my butt. My goal is to not have her make an appearance. I usually meet that goal. And I am not advising new riders to try this. Ive been riding 2 1/2 years on a Spyder and I am still learning. As they say, dont try this at home folks. Do what you are comfortable doing, not what others say they do.

As far as the definition of turns is concerned, I aint riding city streets at 35 or 40 mph over the speed limit. Im talking country roads, but not wide sweepers. Anyone can ride a wide sweeper 30 or 35 over the limit. But when I am really feeling "it", I will pull a 35 or 40 mph turn at 40 over. 40 over seems to be my limit currently. I will have half my butt off the bike, leaning out as far as I can. I dont do it all the time but I am generally going 30 over. I have been called crazy by my friends for the way I sometimes ride, but I love pushing my bike as hard as I can. Makes ya feel alive when ya do that. Believe me or dont believe me. I know what I can do. And surely to God I cant be the only one doing this.

Funny thing is, when Pebbles is on board, I am happy doing 5 or 10 over the limit so she is comfortable. I just want to ride.

There are a lot of adrenaline junkies out there. My experience is that each level gets old pretty quick, and more adrenaline is desired so more limits get pushed until the line finally gets crossed. I hope you ryde safe for your sake and the sake of those who share those same roads. Would hate to read your obit here.

[quasi]

Only thing on that bike that is going to protect you is YOU!

[BajaRon]

Maybe I don't quite understand a few things. Am I reading the posts correctly when you are basically saying you can hit a curve as fast as you want; there's no chance of going off the road because the nanny protects you in all instances? The second thing is what is a turn versus a curve. To me a turn is typically 90 degrees or less, what you normally find on city streets. So, when someone mentions double the posted speed in a turn, are you actually in a curve? If it's a curve, then I can understand hitting it at double the posted speed, depending on the curve, like a wide sweeper. I'm actually not trying to pick on anyone in particular, but when you are giving advice to someone who is new to the spyder, he/she may not know the type curve/turn you are talking about.

It is doubtful that the Nanny can save you from all situations. If you completely throw caution to the wind or deliberately try to exceed both yours and the Spyder's capabilities I'd say you would be able to overwhelm the Nanny. There has to be some level of interest in self preservation involved for the Nanny to function successfully in every situation.

What performance modifications do for the Spyder is increase traction at all 3 wheels. This helps to give the driver greater control in curves, when pushed around in strong cross winds or gusts, and when passing large trucks at freeway speeds. Suspension improvements also reduce lean and dive which helps maintain correct steering alignment. Alignment changes as the suspension flexes. The more movement you get in the suspension, the greater the change in alignment. Typically, a stock Spyder will need steering correction in the curve as the suspension loads and unloads. This causes an over-steer, under-steer oscillation. Ideally, as long as the parameters within a curve do not change, you should be able to enter the curve with a set steering angle and have no need to make any steering adjustments as you power through and out of the turn.

If a parameter within the curve does change, (angle, radius, camber, crown, etc.) these performance modifications will greatly lessen the effect to both the Spyder and the rider.

You do not have to be going over a reasonable speed in a curve to realize the benefits (though the effect of performance components will increase as you increase the relative speed).

I have had some customers tell me that (after riding with their suspension upgrades for some time) they don't think the sway bar and or spring adjusters are working as well as they did in the beginning. I always encourage them to ride a Spyder that does not have these components installed. While not all of them can do this. Some who have done this said they almost went into the ditch riding as they normally do on a friends Spyder. These are not my words. And these have always been unsolicited feedback. Now, when I tell someone to try an unmodified Spyder for comparison. I always warn them to take it easy at first.

When you get used to the handling benefits of a performance suspension, you can get the feeling that they have gone away. When in reality, it is just the driver getting used to the added capabilities and losing sight of how it used to be.

Is the Spyder unsafe stock? Absolutely not! I have never, nor will I ever say that because it is not true. Can the Spyder suspension and handling be improved significantly? I think the record shows that yes, it can. Some believe that you have to be an Evel Knievel to appreciate the improved handling. But this is not true. The great majority of my customers are not interested in being the fastest Spyder in the twisties. But they do appreciate what an improved suspension will do for every day riders.

Of course the debate will continue and I do not expect my ramblings to end it. But I do like to bring the debate back to an established foundation if I can.

And yes, I agree. A 'Turn' is something that you usually need to stop for before continuing through a 90 degree maneuver. A 'Curve' is something that occurs when the roadway changes direction at speed.

[Peteoz]

Yes, Ron......I bought the Bajaron stabiliser bar as I felt uncomfortable both cornering and riding on narrow cambered roads, at the speed limit. There was no way I would consider trying them at a speed faster than the advisory signs. The bar cured that feeling instantaneously for me, and meant that I had far more control and if I crept over the posted speed a "bit", I retained that feeling of confidence. It made riding the Spyder even more fun......and as for the Kuhmos, well

Pete

[TRLBLZR1]

Since "the nanny" has become an integral part of this discussion, I have a question regarding it's behavior:

On my F3-S D500 (SE model) I've never experienced nanny (while driving), nor have I ever disabled traction control. No need to IMO, because it must already be set rather "aggressive" on this machine/model, however:

Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

[Peter Aawen]

.....
Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

That yellow light flashing means the Nanny IS intervening in some way!!

It could be that she's just limited the spark rate or injection to keep power down a little, or that she's applied any one (or more) of the brakes to ensure that your Spyder can make the corner you've just asked it to thru the steering input you've got dialed in; the speed you are travelling at; what your speed, control input, & the road is doing to/telling all the sensors, & how much lean you personally have put in to keep everything stable; or she could be making any one or more of a whole raft of other little tweaks thru things like the ABS, EBD, DPS, VSS, etc.... all stuff that you may not have noticed the how or realise why she is doing what she's doing, but she definitely IS intervening & keeping things within the parameters she has been told are acceptable!

I suspect that very many of those who claim or think that their Nanny hasn't ever intervened simply haven't realised when she HAS!! It's just that she hasn't had to intervene in a heavy handed or clearly noticeable way, and she can be extremely delicate & discrete!! She is actually quite gentle in most of her applications, but you'd hafta ride your Spyder slower & gentler than a loaded hearse for her not to have ever intervened in some way & I really don't believe that too many actually ride like that - altho I will allow that you hafta push her limits & boundaries pretty damn hard for her to intervene in a manner that is noticeable to some! Still, whatever you do, however you ryde, she is always there & she is always watching - and she intervenes waaayyy more than many might think; they just haven't noticed her gentle touch keeping them safe & their Spyder under control!

[WackyDan]

Since "the nanny" has become an integral part of this discussion, I have a question regarding it's behavior:

On my F3-S D500 (SE model) I've never experienced nanny (while driving), nor have I ever disabled traction control. No need to IMO, because it must already be set rather "aggressive" on this machine/model, however:

Just realized yesterday that when I take corners and am riding fairly aggressively (at sub 50 mph speeds), I am frequently seeing the yellow traction control flashing. (Very seldom do I watch gauges, but I just happened to notice it once the other day. Looking for this I now realize it's fairly common for it to flash when I'm cornering aggressively/leaning into the corner like this. (Never cuts power or anything, just flashes.) I'm wondering whether this is the difference between the newer models and the older ones that didn't allow you to accelerate coming out of the apex.... (Nanny is more "permissive" in newer machines, but the warning still flashes?) ~ If wrong, could someone explain this?

The F3 is far for subtle than the one on the older GS/RS. I've still had it come on hard a few times, but I've found that it is far more polite in the auto braking and throttle retardation than the older models. Definitely carry far more speed into the turns but I have had it hit the brakes hard on me a few times when I was too hot on entry.

Lastly... Whether or not you embrace the nanny or not is very dependent on the road you are on. Some roads you are trying to carry more speed but on others, the nanny kicking in more in the turns can indeed help you go faster... Seems illogical, but it comes down to trusting the bike to do it's thing and keeping the nanny from over reacting.

[Bob Denman]

35 to 40 over the posted recommendation? REALLY? On an RT? I need to learn your set-up!

It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike...

I See Noises.jpg

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

It involves a special blend of Red Bull and coffee, and then firing up the bike...

I See Noises.jpg

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

[Bob Denman]

No redbull, no coffee. Just the great tasting delight of Mtn Dew.

I like "Doin' the Dew" too!

[MisterP]

I rely on my self preservation. If it feels like I riding near or over my limits, I'll downshift or tap the brakes. I have a GS.

I always wonder when someone says that you can usually double the speed signage given for a curve. I've been on curves posted for 50 mph, does that mean the spyder can take it safely at 100 mph?

I normally take curves at the posted speed plus 10.