Excessive Heat has been a problem

[Mets79ST2013]

I know the '13 STs have had serious heat issues, but I've not heard the same of '13 RSs. Is that just perception or is there a difference in experience? After all, they are pretty much the same bike under the Tupperware.


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I also have a 2013 RSS no heat issues there..only my ST-S have the heat issues.

[Vrooom]

Okay Conspiracy Theorists.

While combing through the 2013 owner's manual and service manuals I noticed something.
Seen below are two places where the 2013 electrics are set for more than one cooling fan.

A tech mistake?
Probably,

but if you want to think that value engineering cut the two radiators for the 2013 then I can't stop you.

Nice investigation, Roger. The fuse listing label does make it seem intentional: 1. Fan(s)

Sooo, is there a recall for an additional fan that should be issued, or not, because of the expense of such an improvement?

[ARtraveler]

Okay Conspiracy Theorists.

While combing through the 2013 owner's manual and service manuals I noticed something.
Seen below are two places where the 2013 electrics are set for more than one cooling fan.

A tech mistake?
Probably,

but if you want to think that value engineering cut the two radiators for the 2013 then I can't stop you.

A very good catch. If value engineering was the culprit--it will be interesting to see if the situation gets rectified. IMO: the damage to the brand and the company far outweigh the cost of a second radiator (EDIT: or fan).

[Bob Denman]

I don't think that you could stuff a second radiator under the bodywork with the 2013 and prior configuration...
Isn't that where the oil cooler resides?
But a second fan??

[3 Wheel Addict]

2013 has the 2014 harness?

There you go! Remember people that the 13 RT's were the precursor to the 14's that do have two fans.

[Bob Denman]

So; where would YOU mount the second fan??

[DrewNJ]

So; where would YOU mount the second fan??

In the garage......where it belongs.

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[ARtraveler]

So; where would YOU mount the second fan??

Me??? I am known for not being a mechanic.

On the serious side, I don't see that kind of a fix happening. A retro fit of an additional radiator or cooling fan system is probably out of the question. My original comments were on the woulda, coulda, shouda speculation. A can of worms for sure.

[3 Wheel Addict]

So; where would YOU mount the second fan??

There is no second fan, only the 14 models got the second fan because of two radiators but the wiring harness and the fuse blocks could have been predetermined to be set up for the two fans that the newer models would indeed have. Remember that the 13 models were suppose to get the triple engine but there was some delay and it did not happen. This is also the same reason that some models don't have fog lights but the wiring is already there, it's not cost effective to make many different components for each model so they share. Kinda like a car with no power windows but the wiring is there in the doors, one harness exactly the same for that model but no motors or switches for the windows.

[Mettlerk]

Let's see...
ECM updates...
some new scoops on the RS & ST bikes...

They certainly should count as "steps"...Are they a complete solution?
Time and temperature will tell!

I just had the ECM update done on my 13 and I have to say that the performance improvements were outstanding. This is how the Should have been out of the gate. I went on a little over a 150 mile trip the day after I picked it up from the shop. Fuel mileage is about the same, performance way better. No stalling, the engine was smoother and it started on the first push of the button. But, the chestnuts were still roasting after 15 or 20 minutes of riding. I don't believe the update did much, if anything, for the heat. But it sure made the ride much more enjoyable!!!

[Dan McNally]

I got the service bulletin (2013-9) completed today . . . an 80 mile ride to the dealer that did it, and home . . . I used less gas to get home than to get there . . . got 32 MPG for the ride home which is as good as I have ever gotten. The throttle felt much more responsive . . . can't talk to the heat, though, as it was 30 degrees the whole ride.

[hotglue]

Have any of y'all even noticed that the RS and RSS have openings above the side panels that the ST has closed off..? ST has heat issues, and the RS riders don't seem to have them... We have been saying this to BRP but they just foo foo it... BRP has really missed the boat... At this point a hacksaw and drill may be the fix for BRP's stupid idea to bake the engine to keep the heat off the rider...Yep we have had all the known parts to melt and fail in the engine bay...PLUS some...

for you nay-sayers.. yep I have ridden Harley tourers... have one now... also have 2 Valkyries... have ridden and owned just about EVERY make of bike over the past 53 years of riding... (never had a BMW)
The spyder is the 1st bike I have EVER had that cooked and melted parts in the enginebay....... Yep there is an issue for the 13's.. BRP will not acknowledge it as a design flaw... so pretty sure they will not come up with a fix.
We are doing things to make FB's bike better. The value of ths bike is so low with the issues, that if I can get it running "DEPENDABLE" I will be worth about the same 2 years from now as it is now.....
So.. still working on the POS... ever hopeful... but have little hope for BRP to resolve their issues.

Now... I will go back into my corner... stay quiet... Let the cheerleaders call me a hater... and try to get this bike in running order.
Cheers.....

[MouthPiece]

I just had the ECM update done on my 13 and I have to say that the performance improvements were outstanding. This is how the Should have been out of the gate. I went on a little over a 150 mile trip the day after I picked it up from the shop. Fuel mileage is about the same, performance way better. No stalling, the engine was smoother and it started on the first push of the button. But, the chestnuts were still roasting after 15 or 20 minutes of riding. I don't believe the update did much, if anything, for the heat. But it sure made the ride much more enjoyable!!!

Agreed!!!!

​Chris

[Mets79ST2013]

In the garage......where it belongs.

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Drew, I'm with you nice...

[Can-Am Poogs]

It seems go me that Harley Davison went through the same thing. Results: class action law suit stating that the heat from their bikes resulted in riders getting burnt and premature failure of transmissions and other components. Harley Davison fought to have the law suit thrown out and a judge found the law suit had merit.

Seems to me that HD liquid cooled their motors and put heat shields in key position to control the issue and avoid further problems.

The issue is the same but the solution a are obviously going to be different as these are completely different bikes.

I haven't ridden the 2014 yet? To cold and snow still on the ground. Seems to me the two cooling fans further towards the front of the bike with the reversing fans may be the answer. But what about the rest off us.

I agree with what we have all said. It shouldn't be up to the owner to make modifications to fix this problem. BRP needs to step up and take care of its previous customers. Great for the people people buying 2014s. But what about the rest of us? It would be nice to see BRP come up with a fix.

I must say, I am surprised this problem has not turned into a legal matter.


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[Jeriatric]

I just had the ECM update done on my 13 and I have to say that the performance improvements were outstanding. This is how the Should have been out of the gate. I went on a little over a 150 mile trip the day after I picked it up from the shop. Fuel mileage is about the same, performance way better. No stalling, the engine was smoother and it started on the first push of the button. But, the chestnuts were still roasting after 15 or 20 minutes of riding.


★
I don't believe the update did much, if anything, for the heat. But it sure made the ride much more enjoyable!!!

Good to hear it's running better. Wish the MAY help with heat portion of the update would have worked too.

Wonder how they made the determination it MAY help with heat?

Was it too cold in Canada for real world testing and they added MAY, as a WAG?

[Magdave]

Good to hear it's running better. Wish the MAY help with heat portion of the update would have worked too.

Wonder how they made the determination it MAY help with heat?

Was it to cold in Canada for real world testing and they added MAY, as a WAG?

I did not notice much better performance. It still bogs on take off when turning onto a road. It runs OK in higher RPMs. It would be nice if BRP would tell us EXACTLY what the update was doing instead of keeping it top secret. Did it change the mapping or did it just delay the 1614 code from popping up? Some of us gear heads would like more info on what the software changed.

[Bob Denman]

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[Jeriatric]

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The Denman bump

[900Dave]

I posted this before about a extra panel #284 that's on a Fiche showing an extra panel like you say that Blocks of heat to the person but keeps it inside the Tupperware and if you do not have the 2 Lower Oil change panels off The "Engine" area is really going to feel the heat!

before I purchased. That is the only difference that I could find. I have not had any heat problems on my ST-L. But at 1100 miles I have not ridden the bike above 65 deg. When it finally warms up 80+ I do foresee issues so the 2 oil change panels are 1st on my list. I really dont see any need for them in the first place. 2nd will be the CAT delete if needed and then go from there. Those 2 bottom panels really open things up so it should make a big difference.

I am not sure if the vent on the 14's is a fix at all. BRP made a vent for the cool air to get in, but is there a place for it to get out?

[Bob Denman]

The Denman bump

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They make I-Pod connectors, for just about every application!

[Sarge707]

http://www.shspowersports.com/fiche_...13&fveh=173559

Part #74 on the above fiche slows a deflector panel under the side Tupperware (Both Sides) that is ONLY on the 2013 RS and ST models. It was not there prior to 2013 and More heat escaped out of the Tupperware keeping the engine area cooler than the 2013 RS and ST which include this deflector piece on each side of the bike.

I think this deflector keeps more heat under the Tupperware and this Helps heat up the Gas Tank and Master cylinder area. Now if you Have NOT taken off your 2 lower panels the heat has EVEN less places to escape.

If you check prior (2012-2008 ) Fiches you will NOT see this deflector on the GS/RS.

[Bob Denman]

I really dig what's going on here; folks working together, towards various solutions!

[Tazzel]

It's just begining to get warm enough. Example. Once we left the low temps of Flagstaff and hit the desert floor things started to heat up. Under tupperware heat and foot heat were evident but not bad. Ambient temps in the 80's.

Any time the temp pushes past 85 your going to feel it. Mid to upper 90s pretty bad if you get caught in stopped or slow moving traffic. Its the nature of the beast.

[RandyL]

When it finally warms up 80+ I do foresee issues so the 2 oil change panels are 1st on my list. I really dont see any need for them in the first place. 2nd will be the CAT delete if needed and then go from there. Those 2 bottom panels really open things up so it should make a big difference.

I am not sure if the vent on the 14's is a fix at all. BRP made a vent for the cool air to get in, but is there a place for it to get out?

I just did the first oil change on my wife's new '14 ST-S and left the two bottom panels off. Like you, I can't see what purpose they add other than a place to trap gravel, something else to make oil changes take even longer, and keep more heat in.

I'm not aware of anyone who sells a pipe to replace the cat on the '13/14 engine, is there a ready source?