Shift rpms and Fuel Economy...

[MidLifeCrisis]

Your mileage seems on the low side, but that's another well beaten horse. Most of the time we ride, we're chasing two wheelers who take off fast, fly through twisters and seem to keep the speed clipping along at 80 on the highway. I'm always trying to keep from getting dropped and shifting at the higher range and pushing pretty hard and still getting in the high 20s to around 34.

High RPMs don't seem to be the deciding factor for my Spyder's mileage at all. My worst mileage has on the other hand been from keeping the RPMs too low. They are strange beasts for sure!


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[Pennyrick]

For a long, long time I always believed that the lower the engine speed, the less fuel would be burned. To me, it made sense that running at 1,200 rpm would be less stressful for the engine than running at 5,200 rpm.

My opinion has changed. I now believe that an engine is most comfortable running within it's own power band, where it generates the most return in torque and horsepower. For the Rotax engine that appears to be somewhere between 4,500 and 6,500 rpm.

So, by keeping the engine in it's comfort zone we should produce the most return for the fuel consumed, resulting in better mileage.

[Bob Ledford]

Normally, I don't pay much attention to gas mileage, my '08 GS gets 30 to 33 mpg no matter how I twist its tail. However, there was one ride through the back roads of southern Indiana where I never got above 4th gear, and that rarely, or 45 mph, again rarely, and got over 38 mpg!

john

Isn't it a strange feeling when you do something like that? 33 MPG is my best!'

[MikeinGA]

I have found if you shift at a higher rpm and getting up to the speed faster, your mpg will get higher. When I pull out from a dead stop and shift from 1st to 2nd I shift at 5,500 rpm and 2nd to 3rd shift at 6,000 rpm and 3rd to 4th at 5,500 rpm and 4th to 5th at 5,500 and never drop the rpm lower. This is better for the engine and gives me the best mpg on my 2011 RS-S. That's IMHO.

Mike

[diesel-dawg]

Since it is easier for me to read the digital speed than the digital rpm, I shift according to speed only, which also takes into effect a high RPM. First Gear 0-29...shift to 2nd at 29
Second Gear 29-39, shift to 3rd at 39
Third Gear 39-49, shift to 4th at 49
Fourth Gear 49-65, shift to 5th at 65


and do the reverse when down shifting. Works well for me and keeps the revs up.

Ken

[Topshotta]

2012 RSS SE5: I am still trying to find the sweet spot from 1st to 2nd. From 2nd to 3rd i do it based on RPM about 5300 and have absolutely no issue; shifts like butter, however i notice that it shifts better from 1st to 2nd at about 21MPH. I have tried doing it closer to 29MPH but I can feel the shift and does not seem smooth.

[Bob Ledford]

Like you Bob, I'm making sure I'm over 4K before shifting up, but with the SE it wont let me downshift as soon as I'd like, or feel like it should, mostly wanting to get out of 5th to 4th.
Maybe I'm missing some technique on how to do it, but I hit the paddle to downshift and it simply won't till it gets down to the computer designated point.

Sounds like a visit is required to your supporting dealer for a software hardware check

[MikeinGA]

Since it is easier for me to read the digital speed than the digital rpm, I shift according to speed only, which also takes into effect a high RPM. First Gear 0-29...shift to 2nd at 29
Second Gear 29-39, shift to 3rd at 39
Third Gear 39-49, shift to 4th at 49
Fourth Gear 49-65, shift to 5th at 65


and do the reverse when down shifting. Works well for me and keeps the revs up.

Ken

Ken
It sounds like you have good feel for the powder band of your Spyder.

Mike

[Illinois Boy]

Which just proves my point of this engine being way under powered, and a joke.

I still want to know why the recommended shifting RPMs aren't listed in the Owner's Manual, and why doesn't manual have any information in about the clutch not being fully locked at lower speeds and RPMs?

If a clutch is damaged because of low RPM shifts and low riding speeds, shouldn't the repair cost fall on BRP?

I can tell you that the SE5 manual does state that the clutch is fully stalled at 3200 (+/- 200) rpm's. So, they clearly warn you in the manual. The clutch stall-point does not apply to manual clutch machines. They are locked/stalled at release of the clutch lever; which is why you can kill the engine if you do not have the rpm's up enough to get it moving.

I will, however, agree that these recommended shifting points should be included in the manual. The only reference to shifting in the manual recommends 3000 and 4000 shift points. These are not the points I would use -- ever -- but I am most assured there are hundreds of owners riding at this moment that do shift at those points.

Regarding your preference for more low-end torque, I would agree that BRP would make more people comfortable if the engine provided it, as you would find in other v-twins or honda's gold-wing -- simply because most people are used to having low-end torque in their engines.

Having said that, I do not agree that the machine is under powered, as some seem to claim. To me, it simply requires different operation. I often refer to it being similar to driving a Ferrari, where there is not much low-end torque compared to U.S. muscle cars; however once their rpm's are in the upper ranges, muscle cars cannot compete with the power they produce at the top-end.

Lastly, too many owners see the higher rpm's shift-point suggestions as meaning they have to run their Spyder as fast as they can -- which couldn't be further from the truth.

It merely means to resist shifting at lower rpm's. I ride one-mile to get out of my subdivision. Speed limit is 25 mph. I never leave first gear for the entire ride out of the subdivision. I could ride all-day in first gear if my ride doesn't require me to go over 28-30 mph. This would drive many owners nuts as they couldn't resist shifting to fifth-gear before they get a block out of their driveway.

Each to their own though, which is why some will never fully enjoy their Spyder and will forever complain about power. No offense intended. JMHO

[Dan McNally]

For a long, long time I always believed that the lower the engine speed, the less fuel would be burned. To me, it made sense that running at 1,200 rpm would be less stressful for the engine than running at 5,200 rpm.

My opinion has changed. I now believe that an engine is most comfortable running within it's own power band, where it generates the most return in torque and horsepower. For the Rotax engine that appears to be somewhere between 4,500 and 6,500 rpm.

So, by keeping the engine in it's comfort zone we should produce the most return for the fuel consumed, resulting in better mileage.

This has been my experience, too. At 65, I stay in 4th unless it is a very flat road, or down hill. Since I stopped worrying about gas mileage and trying to ride it like a different kind of bike, it seems to be much more responsive and fun to ride.

[daveinva]

Which just proves my point of this engine being way under powered, and a joke.

You can repeat it as often as you'd like, in every thread you step in, it still won't make it true.

All bikes-- repeat, ALL BIKES, and all cars for that matter-- have different powerbands. Because all engines are different. This a basic statement of inarguable fact.

Try riding a liter bike like a dual-sport. You can't.

Try driving a rotary car like a V-8. You can't.

Try riding a Spyder like a cruiser. You can't.

I wrest all the power I need, and all the acceleration I need, out of the Spyder.

Would I like more power? Yes, because I'm a red-blooded American male! But I'm completely comfortable with the Spyder's powerband because I understand it. I could have spent my time here on Spyderlovers complaining that my Spyder isn't a Goldwing/Gixxer/Ducati; instead, I spent my time learning how to ride it.

[Pennyrick]

Which just proves my point of this engine being way under powered, and a joke. I still want to know why the recommended shifting RPMs aren't listed in the Owner's Manual, and why doesn't manual have any information in about the clutch not being fully locked at lower speeds and RPMs? If a clutch is damaged because of low RPM shifts and low riding speeds, shouldn't the repair cost fall on BRP?

Dave:

I'll be as tactful as I can here.....

I suggest you learn how to ride a machine that pumps over 100 hp out of less than a full liter.

[sinkhole]

You can repeat it as often as you'd like, in every thread you step in, it still won't make it true.

All bikes-- repeat, ALL BIKES, and all cars for that matter-- have different powerbands. Because all engines are different.
But I'm completely comfortable with the Spyder's powerband because I understand it.

Herein lies the key... understanding, and respect!

[billybovine]

You can repeat it as often as you'd like, in every thread you step in, it still won't make it true.

All bikes-- repeat, ALL BIKES, and all cars for that matter-- have different powerbands. Because all engines are different. This a basic statement of inarguable fact.

Try riding a liter bike like a dual-sport. You can't.

Try driving a rotary car like a V-8. You can't.

Try riding a Spyder like a cruiser. You can't.

I wrest all the power I need, and all the acceleration I need, out of the Spyder.

Would I like more power? Yes, because I'm a red-blooded American male! But I'm completely comfortable with the Spyder's powerband because I understand it. I could have spent my time here on Spyderlovers complaining that my Spyder isn't a Goldwing/Gixxer/Ducati; instead, I spent my time learning how to ride it.

Well said but sadly I think it will fall on deaf ears.

[Laila's Dad]

I just go, I shift when it "feels" like it is time. Sometimes that is 4500 rpms and others it is 5500 rpms. Who knows, my thought process may bite me in the butt one day down the line but I am pretty sure the spyder can manage my driving style.

[Bob Denman]

Hi Sunshine!
The RS/GS engines were tuned to produce 106 hp...
The RTs were tuned for 100 hp; but at approximately 750 lower rpm...
That's how...
That Math was so simple that I even understood it myself...

[Bob Denman]

You mentioned your experience with Go-Karts; where did they make their power?
I'd bet you a nickel that they were spinning some pretty decent revs to get you to 100 mph...

[Pennyrick]

How are you coming up with "over 100 hp"?

And I will be as tactful as I can here... Don't assume I don't have driving experience with machines of lower cubic inch displacements that perform well or that I don't understand power band ranges of those varied machine engine. I have driven go-carts with chain saw engine power plants that can reach speeds well over 100 mph.

I guess you don't need my comments. You refuted your own assertion.

[Bob Denman]

He's just cranky; he doesn't have his GoldWing yet...

[Bob Denman]

That's great news!
So you'll be happier than...

[MidLifeCrisis]

Not Good-Bye, but rather GOOD RIDDANCE!

Fireworks.jpg

[Illinois Boy]

Ummm... another person that wanted a dump-truck and mistakenly bought a Ferrari... One would have thought he took it for a test-drive before buying it. Geez... Wonders never cease...

I just hope there is nothing in the GW's manual that he cannot understand, or he might have other problems with it.

Seems the guy cannot take advice from others when his mind is already shut with his misguided perceptions and opinions. Must be lonely in there...

[Bob Denman]

Let's try to remember... Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.... and preferences!
We have a fair amount of folks in here riding other brands; they do show enough class and decency to not continue to trash our bikes...
We can always hope that Dave finds happiness somewhere...

[ARtraveler]

Let's try to remember... Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.... and preferences!
We have a fair amount of folks in here riding other brands; they do show enough class and decency to not continue to trash our bikes...
We can always hope that Dave finds happiness somewhere...

At this point, I bet Dave N. is just messing with us. This could not continue to be for real.

[LimitedRTCan-AmSpyder]

I usually shift at 4500 to 5500. 4500 rpms shifts very smooth. My mileage I am not sure of, it was on 140 miles and it filled up at 4.2 gals with no gas light yet. Still had 4 bars left.