Useable downforce

[altonk]

Anyone have any ideas on getting some useable downforce on the back of our spiders

they tend to oversteer and an electric wing with about 200 lbs of pushbutton downforce would be great.

This wing on a single pylon with a servomotor driving angle of attack would be great

http://http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemi d=44

[BillGargan]

I am -- in my 11,000 mile experience -- confused by your remark about oversteer. You may be correct and I -- simply -- may have never experience it.

If you were really pushing the Spyder through a turn and it "tried' to oversteer, the computer controls (nanny, some like to call it) would jump in and say N O T GOING TO HAPPEN!

Do I misstate the case?

Anyone have any ideas on getting some useable downforce on the back of our spiders

they tend to oversteer and an electric wing with about 200 lbs of pushbutton downforce would be great.

This wing on a single pylon with a servomotor driving angle of attack would be great

http://http://www.aprperformance.com...d=33&Itemid=44

[altonk]

That's the problem it happens too soon.

By putting more weight on the rear wheel at the apex of the turn it has more grip. You can go faster before you reach the limit of adhesion of the rear tire.

Modern F1 and GT cars put as much as 3000 pounds of total downforce at speed.

[altonk]

A good article on downforce

http://http://www.aprperformance.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132&Item id=44



http://http://www.mhest.com/spotlight/automobiles/articles/Race-CarAerodynamics.pdf

[WackyDan]

I've thrown the spyder around pretty hard in the twisties.... Honestly, I can't see a situation where more downforce is possible given that the speeds at which you take a tight turn are not enough to generate enough downforce to make a difference anyway.

[altonk]

Think 70-80 mph sweepers you could get some push there

Given enough drag you can get downforce at most any speed

[Zombo]

Well, you can be the pioneer in the engineering of such a device for the Spyder.

[altonk]

Engineering it is not nearly so hard as fabricating it
Wish I had a local fab shop to work with

[scudrunner]

I'm not sure where you would put the wing where it would get enough air to provide enough down force. The driver would disrupt the wind flow if it were on the back I would think. And yes, I've noticed the over-steer. It isn't to the point of the nanny kicking in, but as you go into a turn, just a little extra turn of the bars tends to make the Spyder dive into the turn, requiring you to back off a little. I believe that is why most people think the Spyder has a steering problem. I also think it is a design issue with two wheels in the front and only one pushing in the back.

[Latemarch]

Put narrower tires with harder rubber on the front wheels and that oversteer will go away

[altonk]

Scud,
I think the direct steering is a new experience for new pilots also.

I think that a wide wing 50 - 60 " mounted to the frame where the sport rack goes with big end plates would do the trick.

I also need to get the spyder on some scales to check the weight balance.

On the tadpole trike bicycles that I have motorized. the chassis design biased the weight to the front heavily.

This is true with the spyder also I suspect.

this is why the nanny is there as most ppl are used to driving a car with understeer designed in.

[scudrunner]

Altonk,
I agree with you on all points..... but the wing would have to be pretty big to get enough air at turning speeds. How about incorporating this technology?

Overkill? Probably.

[WizardMaster]

I came up with one over a year ago and most laughed at it and said why. On the it was mainly for looks. Now that a few have seen it in person, we have been asked to make it but it is off the drawing board and not one we will pursue. Guess there will only be the 3 prototypes out there! That is until you make yours.

[COOLMACHINE]

i DID A SEARCH FOR SPOILER, REAR SPOILER AND DID NOT COME UP WITH ONE BUT PROBABLY A GOOD YEAR AGO SOMEONE HAD A REAR SPOILER ON THEIR SILVER SPYDER. LOOKED NICE BUT DO NOT KNOW HOW WELL IT FUNCTIONED. YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK THROUGH THE PICS.

[Roger]

i DID A SEARCH FOR SPOILER, REAR SPOILER AND DID NOT COME UP WITH ONE BUT PROBABLY A GOOD YEAR AGO SOMEONE HAD A REAR SPOILER ON THEIR SILVER SPYDER. LOOKED NICE BUT DO NOT KNOW HOW WELL IT FUNCTIONED. YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK THROUGH THE PICS.

I remember that one i doubt that it had any function at all other than look cool. It was too small to be functional. jmo

[3whlLefty]

I have felt oversteer at times but only in mountain curves that are usually below 40 mph. I guess I can't imagine getting any useful downforce at such low speeds. Adding 50# of weight to the passenger seat area might help tho. I plan to learn to live with it and learn to have fun with it.

[SSG Bean]

[Capt John]

That's the problem it happens too soon.

By putting more weight on the rear wheel at the apex of the turn it has more grip. You can go faster before you reach the limit of adhesion of the rear tire.

Modern F1 and GT cars put as much as 3000 pounds of total downforce at speed.

Last year on the way home from Spyder in the Smokies. We took the scenic route...Zoso and myself had to ryde the Dragon 1 more time. Both of us loaded down. IMO we seemed to hold the the curves better than when we had run it early in the week (5times). I've wondered if the extra weight does make a big difference. It maybe that we were just more familiar the 6th time around and had a blast taking the Cherohala Skyway home.

[altonk]

More weight on the tires == more traction

[AMTJIM]

My arm and leg length give me all the catamaran action I need.

[altonk]

This beast is fun in the wet. In a sprint car with a death wish kinda way

[BajaRon]

I honestly don't have the problem of overstear unless I jerk the steering too hard. And then I think it is more a case of inertia loading of the front suspension and not lack of downforce on the rear causing oversteer.

I've been able to get a slight drift in smoothly executed, hard cornering. I don't have a problem with the rear moving before the front does (which would be the oversteer you're talking about).

The only place I'd like to see more downforce is at launch, or when at high speed in wet conditions (to reduce hydroplaning).

But really, in this aspect I think the Spyder it is what it is and, for the most part, we need to learn to ride within the parameters it gives us. Done correctly, you can really get all there is out of this machine in most cases.

[AMTJIM]

If you have the money to throw at something, sounds like you may prefer a G&G Quadster or T-Rex Scorpion Turbo, maybe an Ariel Atom or KTM X-Bow.

[Zombo]

....

But really, in this aspect I think the Spyder it is what it is and, for the most part, we need to learn to ride within the parameters it gives us. Done correctly, you can really get all there is out of this machine in most cases.

^this.

[altonk]

Replace those hard skinny front tires with some wider much softer rubber and the oversteer really starts to shine