DOT and Modular Helmets

[NancysToy]

I would not be overly concerned about your modular helmet. Though the chin bar on a modular will not withstand impacts that a full face helmet will you still have much greater protection than with an open face (3/4) helmet. Everything has trade-offs.

Whether the unpadded portions are tested or not, a modular should provide more protection than a 3/4, which is better than a halfpot. Of course a full face helmet provides the most protection. Basically, the more of your precious noggin you cover, the better protected you are. Flesh and bone are no match for asphalt!

[IWN2RYD]

I would not be overly concerned about your modular helmet. Though the chin bar on a modular will not withstand impacts that a full face helmet will you still have much greater protection than with an open face (3/4) helmet. Everything has trade-offs.

It is true that DOT has not updated their test standards in some time. But this does not necessarily mean the DOT standard is not good.

And it is true that Snell introduces a new standard every 5 years. Sometimes the changes are so minor you wonder if it is more marketing than improvement.

I am not sure where you are getting the Shoei safety rating because Shoei does not produce any safety rating.

The big 3 are DOT, Snell (Both US Based) and ECE (Economic Commission for Europe).

There have been extensive and multiple independent testing showing DOT only helmets are generally better at protecting the rider than DOT/Snell rated helmets. This may be some of the reason Snell keeps revising their standard.

At first Snell just blew these DOT vs. Snell tests off. But over the years Snell has been more receptive to MC needs as opposed to auto racing (where Snell got their start).

Here is an excellent article that give a good overview of this subject.

ECE 22.05 Motorcycle Helmet Standard - webBikeWorld

Thank the Lord... Greatly appreciate your input and the link. Very cool read!

I also got a response from my informant , sorry, I meant Trainer....

The helmet is the Shark Evoline. They just recently released the Evoline 2, which is a slightly improved version of the original. There were a few minor flaws (irritations mostly) in the original, and the company actually listened to customer feedback and fixed those few minor items. I got mine at Hinshaw’s Motorcycle Store in Auburn, but I’m sure most dealers could certainly order one.

I looked for a copy of the Motorcycle Consumer News article that first announced that the Evoline helmet had passed certification as a full face. Unfortunately MCN’s online article index is always 2-3 years behind, and that article was published in late 2009 so it’s not available online yet and I didn’t keep the paper copy of the magazine.


So that helps me a bit as well, and I will go to the library and see if I can find that article.

In the end, I certainly understand we all take risks. Heck even getting out of the shower!

I hope I am not being misunderstood with this thread. But in my business the reality of life is this. An uneducated client is an instant liability... This is the best way to say it. I simply want to be knowledgeable of the truth, thereby being able to make an informed decision on our risk. It is not that I want to argue, or buy/not buy another helmet for that matter.

But when I purchased our helmets we had been told the entire helmet was DOT approved. And as soon as our Lead Trainer (BTW we had three) spoke to us about why we purchased the ones we did, and then told us his knowledge on the subject... The "Are you frik'n kidding me" bug kicked in.

Well it has been on my wife and I's minds ever since. And I knew coming here we a more "Mature" (Not old) group of members we would get a straight answer.

[scudrunner]

Wow, all this talk about good better best protection and maybe the best isn't good enough, does each component of my helmet meet DOT spec, I think I'm going to quit riding until I develop an Iron Man suit!

[IWN2RYD]

Wow, all this talk about good better best protection and maybe the best isn't good enough, does each component of my helmet meet DOT spec, I think I'm going to quit riding until I develop an Iron Man suit!

lol....

I am alive today because of a helmet. So yeah. I want to know. Otherwise the heck with modular and hello full face...

[ataDude]

Flesh and bone are no match for asphalt!

Hence, my nickname.

.

[Firefly]

Those Shark units are unique in that you can flip them all the way back and ride with the face open--- something you should NOT do with the other modular units on the market.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...shark-evoline/

The other Modular helmets out there are not meant to wear when opened---and therefore would not pass DOT when used as such.

I think this is what the guy was referring to.

I personally don't see the need for a modular--- unless you can really convert it to a 3/4 and ride with it.

Your first helmet will never be the right one-- most of us have a collection of them--- I think I have 7 now.

[2manycars]

I own a shark evoline helmet and it is great except, the thing is so heavy that my neck hurts when I wear it, and if it is in the "chin-bar back position," it feels very off balance.

There are so many nice helmets made for the European market, I wish we could get some of them here.

The Nolan Trilogy looks nice, and I understand with the chin-bar snapped in place it will indeed pass a full face helmet test. I am not sure why Snel will not test them.

[NancysToy]

There is only so far you can go with protection on a motorcycle, especially with a helmet. At some point a hit on the chin can cause a broken neck. We don't wear HAN devices, like in race cars. So it is a risk we take. An oddly angled hit, or multiple hits, can cause damage to even the stoutest helmet. All you can do is wear something that you feel safe in, knowing that the odds are in your favor with any tested helmet, and more in your favor the more of your head the helmet covers. Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

[IWN2RYD]

There is only so far you can go with protection on a motorcycle, especially with a helmet. At some point a hit on the chin can cause a broken neck. We don't wear HAN devices, like in race cars. So it is a risk we take. An oddly angled hit, or multiple hits, can cause damage to even the stoutest helmet. All you can do is wear something that you feel safe in, knowing that the odds are in your favor with any tested helmet, and more in your favor the more of your head the helmet covers. Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

Also... If you watch the first video on this (Link) @ around 1:35 you will here what I was looking for... It is the first helmet to be approved in the locked and opened position... This of course is third hand info. Do as you wish with the info...

[BajaRon]

The Nolan Trilogy looks nice, and I understand with the chin-bar snapped in place it will indeed pass a full face helmet test. I am not sure why Snel will not test them.

Snell will not test any helmet where the chin bar can be removed. They feel that if it can be it will be and since they can't be guaranteed the chin bar will be in place, they will not put their seal of approval on it.

A Snell rating isn't really as big a deal as Snell would like for you to believe it is. From all the testing, the past and current ECE standard is better for MC helmet wearers than Snell (though Snell is getting closer).

[BajaRon]

Selecting the right helmet and safety gear is a tough decision, but research, discussion like this, and certification makes the job a bit easier. The most important thing with a helmet is to get one that fits! All other considerations pale, by comparison.

You are absolutly correct! And this is the critical issue because most people refuse to wear a correctly sized helmet.

You are much better off with a correctly fitting mid range (or even good cheap) helmet than you are with a Shoei or Arai that does not fit well.

[IWN2RYD]

I don't keep up with all helmet brands but I am not aware of any modular hemet that is not DOT certified. This includes Shoei, HJC, KBC, Nolan, Cyber, Shark, Scorpion and I am sure many others.

This is not just my opinion as I can provide supporting documentation for each of these.

This guy may be a great riding instructor but his helmet fact base has a lot to be desired.

I understand and appreciate your input.

I never stated that any of the helmets are not DOT approved. What I said was, I was told only one was approved as a full face. All the others had been approved DOT as 3/4's.

If you get a chance and watch the first video on this (Link) @ around 1:35 you will hear what I was looking for... It is the first helmet to be approved in the locked closed and opened position... This of course is third hand info. Do as you wish with the info...

This validates the instructors info to me (IMHO). This is the "First" and only helmet (So far to his knowledge) to get the certification in the modular position. Either opened or closed.

It seems clear the issue here is a rather normal one. There is no where we as consumers can go to find this information. All there is is pass or fail. No 3/4 or full etc. Is this the case or have I missed it?

I can understand the instant feeling everyone has had so far, that this instructor is FOS.... We have all been there before (Receiving end) And I am grateful folks are helpful in that regard to warn... But not everyone is FOS otherwise how do I take any of the input on this thread if that had been the case?

***Edit*** Here is another video (Manufactures) talking about being the only helmet carrying a double full-face and jet ECE22-05 homologation...[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DUDFGpkDBI&feature=player_embedded"] (Link)[/ame]

[dlittle]

Having landed head first at around 65 MPH WITHOUT a helmet (see full story below if interested), I can say it's no fun and now wear a helmet religiously. Fit is a big deal not only for safety but comfort. Too loose and it bangs around and is really annoying. Too tight and it can give you headaches. And different brands do fit COMPLETELY different. For me, many are too narrow at the chin and arent comfortable while others in the same size fit great. Moral of the story -- if you're going to buy online, find someplace you can try one on FIRST.

And now for the rest of the story...

I was on a Honda 450 Nighthawk (which don't turn in well) and a friend was on a modified Kawi KZ750 Twin (which handled VERY well). We were on the service road to Central Expressway (I-75) on the outskirts of Dallas.

He decided to get on Central and took off like a bat outta hell. I took off following well behind and saw that the entrance ramp was a VERY long ramp (1/2 mile or so). What I didn't notice was that it was a sharp right then sharp left to get onto the ramp until I was already committed to getting on.

I made it most of the way through the left to get on before hitting the soft curb (the sloped kind instead of the 90 degree angle type) which through the bike into the air going sideways. When the bike landed (with me still holding on, it landed sideways and leaned over quite a bit just as it had been when I was in the turn. It's amazing how long that second or so can last and how loudly you can scream OOOOHHHHHHH SSSSHHHHIIIITTTT !!!!!!

The recoil from the shocks through me over the outside edge of the handlebars but luckily, through me into a roll in hard-packed dirt next to Central. I landed head first and rolled a few times before coming to a stop.

An off-duty paramedic saw what happened, stopped, checked me out and started loading me in his car to take to the hospital not far away. My friend took a couple of minutes to notice I hadn't caught up, get turned around and get back.

Should have killed me but obviously didn't. I'm trying to figure out what kind of cat I have in my blood since I'm working on at least my second life.

Total Damages: The bike had at least bent forks and probably more. I decided not to fix it since it only cost me about $500 to start with. I ended up with 13 stitches in my head where I hit and LOTS of bumps and bruises. I was off work for 3 days and then was OK.

One other thing just in case anyone else ever injures their head (on a motorcycle or otherwise). Even a little cut will BLEED and make it look REALLY bad -- much worse than it actually is in some cases.

Dennis

[Smylinacha]

I have a Zamp Modular Helmet:


Had it for 2 yrs now. I use it in cold and rainy weather. I don't wear in nice warm weather - I wear a beanie instead. But this is the only helmet that fits me right and it's the lightest one I've ever had when it comes to a modular. Plus the yellow in it goes w/ the . Keeps me warm and dry and no headaches from it and it doesn't fog. There are sun lenses that pop down but I don't use them - too blurry and I just wear my prescription shades which fit nicely in the helmet. I also have speakers in it that I put in myself. It's pretty quiet - I don't really hear any wind. Vents good when it does warm up outside.

[Firefly]

I would agree the Shark may be the only helmet that DOT says (and the manufacturer) you can use in both positions - but this doesn't mean other modulars are not DOT approved when used properly (down and locked). Even a standard full-face or 1/2 face has to be properly locked on your head with the chin strap to be effective - doesn't mean it isn't 'DOT approved' without a chin strap--- just not the recommended use.


What this comes down to is that if your helmet (including your current modular) is DOT approved - then it's DOT approved when used properly - and flipped up isn't proper for most modulars.

[IWN2RYD]

I would agree the Shark may be the only helmet that DOT says (and the manufacturer) you can use in both positions - but this doesn't mean other modulars are not DOT approved when used properly (down and locked). Even a standard full-face or 1/2 face has to be properly locked on your head with the chin strap to be effective - doesn't mean it isn't 'DOT approved' without a chin strap--- just not the recommended use.


What this comes down to is that if your helmet (including your current modular) is DOT approved - then it's DOT approved when used properly - and flipped up isn't proper for most modulars.

I totally understand that. But where can we find this information? I understood, and made my purchases over the years with this same understanding (As you and others have expressed).

Let me be clear. I agree with you! But now I am starting to read conflicting information. All I am trying to do is get to the bottom of it and not assume what is incorrect, and then potentially continue to spread false information.

I cannot figure out why this is so hard for folks to understand. I have been knocked around a few times in this thread, proven my instructor was giving me correct information. And all along the way it feels like no one actually wants to learn what the truth is and i am fighting a battle instead of becoming educated. They would rather stay with what they "Think". Yet I am accused of spreading false information.

Maybe I came to the wrong place?

Let give you an example. There are many vehicle on the road that claim to have ABS.. OK.. NO problem... But not all of them are four wheel ABS... Only the rear! We all know 70% ish of our braking in a car is up front.

This gives a false sense of safety to an uneducated buyer! A four wheel ABS is far safer than two wheel ABS. And please no one attack me on this. It is a fact that not everyone asks, and they assume. It is a fact that many folks buy there car used, just see ABS listed on the sticker and assume all they want.

Additionally... What is frustrating to me is the fogginess of information available. What they are saying is this is the first modular helmet to be approved by DOT in the closed full face position. No other modular is approved at this time as a full face (As far as I can find and have been told)! THEN they also say that this Shark Helmet approved in the open position as a 3/4.

So this leads me to believe (And where I start getting confused) that no other Modular helmet is considered DOT approved beyond 3/4 with the chin area in any position.

For example... One of the links I presented actually shows a helmet that has the "Latch" release in the chin arranged in such a manner that when you hit your chin it released the locking mechanism!!! That is not good!

Please for the love of GOD. I am not challenging anyone and their beliefs. I am challenging myself to find the truth.

It was not long ago that we went from not having ABS and the same "We do not need it, learn to drive" mentality was there as well. Now nearly every car manufactured for the US today has it. Same can be said about helmets. Just a few years ago we did not need them, they made a law and here we are.

Not to mention, now that hundreds of thousands of more helmets are being made than before, the technology continues to improve, and the need for a competitive edge for those consumers that look for it.

I am one of those consumers that looks for it.

I am in no way wanting to argue or get into a pissing match about beliefs or opinions. There are to many threads like this already on helmets.

I am trying to become a better educated consumer that has FACTS.

[IWN2RYD]

Those Shark units are unique in that you can flip them all the way back and ride with the face open--- something you should NOT do with the other modular units on the market.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...shark-evoline/

The other Modular helmets out there are not meant to wear when opened---and therefore would not pass DOT when used as such.

I think this is what the guy was referring to.

I personally don't see the need for a modular--- unless you can really convert it to a 3/4 and ride with it.

Your first helmet will never be the right one-- most of us have a collection of them--- I think I have 7 now.

Missed the highlighted earlier sorry about that.

In our situation... I had a bad accident in the early 90's and want a full face.

I was a volunteer fireman for five years (Accident above ended that), saw my fare share of motorcycle accidents, and my business sees these accidents on a monthly basis. So I am personally making this choice because of my experiences.

My wife has a disability. This disability has created challenges for her in daily life.

One of those challenges this disability created (In her mind) is a small case of being claustrophobic. I want to be clear on this. It takes her about 15-30 minutes (sometimes longer) to put on a full faced helemt every single time she has to put it on when we ride in the dirt. Pee brakes, or any other reason to remove the helmet requiring it to be put back on.

This actually kept us from taking our search for a street bike to seriously for many years. (Would be a hamper on trips with others) I am after all a loving husband and the give and take is alive and well in our relationship.

When we took a weekday drive out of town, and ended up looking at the new RT's... She fell in love and stated we are getting one. So the search began for a helmet.

Knowing we would end up with four or more helmets as time goes by (As we did in the dirt, I think I am at eight), we just looked at what the dealer had in stock, asked about the DOT stuff, and came across the Modular unit. Purchased them on the spot.

Now my wife is able to put on the helmet in seconds, instead of 15-30 minutes... Slides her glasses in... and drops in the chin piece. Now we are good to go in minutes compared to her "Dirt" time...

[boborgera]

I find that as soon as i put my helmet on and buckle it up, Someone
will inevitably come up to me and start asking questions about the Spyder.
So instead of having to take off my helmet to talk, I just flip them
the bird, Na just kidding i just flip the chin bar up to talk.
But if i wear a 3/4 should i use 87 or 93 octane!

[venom]

heres what i found in a french magasine from europe. A doctor say,s that it is better to scratch your face and protect your brain( your face absorbs the shock)
in staid of protecting your lovely face and damaging your brain????

anywaise ask félipe massa what he prefers....tire parts, wood, bug's
i prefer a modular what ever....
http://resources0.news.com.au/images...hungary-gp.jpg

[BajaRon]

I understand and appreciate your input.

I never stated that any of the helmets are not DOT approved. What I said was, I was told only one was approved as a full face. All the others had been approved DOT as 3/4's.

If you get a chance and watch the first video on this (Link) @ around 1:35 you will hear what I was looking for... It is the first helmet to be approved in the locked closed and opened position... This of course is third hand info. Do as you wish with the info...

This validates the instructors info to me (IMHO). This is the "First" and only helmet (So far to his knowledge) to get the certification in the modular position. Either opened or closed.

It seems clear the issue here is a rather normal one. There is no where we as consumers can go to find this information. All there is is pass or fail. No 3/4 or full etc. Is this the case or have I missed it?

I can understand the instant feeling everyone has had so far, that this instructor is FOS.... We have all been there before (Receiving end) And I am grateful folks are helpful in that regard to warn... But not everyone is FOS otherwise how do I take any of the input on this thread if that had been the case?

***Edit*** Here is another video (Manufactures) talking about being the only helmet carrying a double full-face and jet ECE22-05 homologation... (Link)

Ok, point well taken. I may stand corrected on a not so technical technicallity. I would have to look into it further but my understanding of DOT is that they do not test the chin bar so I am a bit confused as to this aspect. Especially if they are saying it passes DOT with or without the chinbar in place??? That would be true of any modular helmet with a DOT rating.

One thing that's clear is that helmet certifications, testing methods and exactly what has been tested and what has not is very un-clear. This being, I think, your main point in all of this.

The testing agencies are much better at marketing generalizations about their service than they are in helping the consumers understand any of the details.

PS. After looking into this a bit more (I don't have time to do real research right now) I think I've found out what is going on. It appears that all the other modulars do not meet DOT standards with the chin bar in the 'Up' position not because the helmet then fails DOT impact standards, but because it can create other safety hazards such as obstructing the rider's vision, making the helmet unbalanced or hazardous at speed because of wind and lack of aerodynamics.

[Firefly]

I guess I always thought that the order of helmet safety (from safest to least safe) went:

Full face
Modular
3/4
1/2

Then it quickly drops off in safety---- :
Brain Bucket
Tin foil cap
Party hat
Painted bald head

Is this not the generally accepted scale? The top 4 are all available in DOT approved versions, but that doesn't mean a 1/2 is as safe as a full.

I don't believe any modular on the market is considered as safe as a full face - including the Shark... especially if you're going to ride with it in the open-face position.

I'm always in search of the perfect helmet-- would probably LOVE a modular like the shark if they made it in carbon fiber and really light--- with retractable sunscreen.

[BajaRon]

I guess I always thought that the order of helmet safety (from safest to least safe) went:

Full face
Modular
3/4
1/2

Then it quickly drops off in safety---- :
Brain Bucket
Tin foil cap
Party hat
Painted bald head

Is this not the generally accepted scale? The top 4 are all available in DOT approved versions, but that doesn't mean a 1/2 is as safe as a full.

I don't believe any modular on the market is considered as safe as a full face - including the Shark... especially if you're going to ride with it in the open-face position.

I'm always in search of the perfect helmet-- would probably LOVE a modular like the shark if they made it in carbon fiber and really light--- with retractable sunscreen.

There is some debate (isn't there always!) but generally your sequence is both logical and correct (though I might argue that the party hat and the brain bucket are interchangable).

The debate concerns the chin bar. In an accident, impact to the chin bar can be transmitted to the neck increasing the injury.

Just as not wearing a seat belt can actually reduce your chance of injury in a very small percentage of accidents it appears that so to, not having the chin bar can actually reduce injury in a small percentage of accidents (assuming that the the increased damage to your face is preferred over increased neck injury).

But if you're going with the odds (and how else can this kind of thing be approached) you're statistically much better off with a full face than an open face.

Though there are other downsides to a modular helmet, studies have shown that in the majority of accident senarios you'll get close to equal protection with a solid chin bar helmet.

Now if you get into racing and the kind of speeds and likelyhood of getting off before stopping, a full face helmet is the only way to go.