Agree or Disagree

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by jgwoods

I disagree.
Brakes can overcome any car engine at full throttle.

I am curious as to how Toyota's fixing gas pedals is going to resolve the claim people make that they have no brakes when their car is "running away" on them.

With the Toyotas, at least, it was proven in tests that the brakes could only temporariliy overcome the throttle, and soon heated up and failed. Even disc brakes all around can only take so much.

[jgwoods]

The current Car and Driver disagrees with you in some ways- it says you ought to step ont he the brakes once time and hold them, and that the increased stopping distance between closed throttle and full throttle is only a few feet from 70 mph, and not quite 100 feet from 100mph.

The car will stop. It's all driver error and bad training.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...tion-tech_dept

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by jgwoods

The current Car and Driver disagrees with you in some ways- it says you ought to step ont he the brakes once time and hold them, and that the increased stopping distance between closed throttle and full throttle is only a few feet from 70 mph, and not quite 100 feet from 100mph.

The car will stop. It's all driver error and bad training.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...tion-tech_dept

Actually, it depended on the car, and they did recommend both feet on the brake pedal, which most drivers may not think to do. All cars slowed in their tests but one did not stop completely. Further application of that brake probably would have resulted in complete brake failure. For the high powered Roush car, which went three times the normal stopping distance, that situation could easily kill you. Stretching out 100 feet into a football field could put you into a wall. Bottom line, it should be instinctive in these situations to apply the brakes hard as a first reaction. It should at least help. As C&D said, shutting off the ignition on a modern car is a last resort, and not recommended...and they didn't even mention the steering lock issue.

[spyryder]

Originally Posted by NancysToy

...and they didn't even mention the steering lock issue.

Steering normally won't lock unless the transmission is in park. Some cars don't even have a steering lock anymore as in my Chrysler 300.

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by spyryder

Steering normally won't lock unless the transmission is in park. Some cars don't even have a steering lock anymore as in my Chrysler 300.

Well, that's a new wrinkle that I didn't know. The first steering locks would lock anywhere, and it could be mean if you turned off the key. Had a Dodge Colt that I tested that theory on.

[spyryder]

Originally Posted by NancysToy

Well, that's a new wrinkle that I didn't know. The first steering locks would lock anywhere, and it could be mean if you turned off the key. Had a Dodge Colt that I tested that theory on.

All cars with a locking steering are supposed to have what's called a shift interlock. As long as the car isn't in park (or reverse in a manual trans), then you should only be able to turn the key off, but not to the lock position. I'm surprised you could do that with the Colt.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h18.pdf

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by jgwoods

As for what to do if your SE5 soemhow gets stuck at full throttle when there is no way to put it in neutral; Using the kill switch and leaving the ignition in the on position should leave us with the engine off, but all other features working- anti lock brakes, DPS, etc. so it should be fairly easy to coast to a halt.

I do wonder if that is the case- that all the systems continue to work when activating the kill switch at speed.
I may have to try that...

Actually your DPS is killed when you hit the killswitch. Not sure about the ABS.

[Way2Fast]

Originally Posted by spyryder

All cars with a locking steering are supposed to have what's called a shift interlock. As long as the car isn't in park (or reverse in a manual trans), then you should only be able to turn the key off, but not to the lock position. I'm surprised you could do that with the Colt.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h18.pdf

Besides having the transmission (auto) in park, I believe the key has to be removed before the wheel will lock.

[Tom in NM]

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

[spyryder]

Originally Posted by Tom in NM

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

Well it looks like people ARE finally getting an education due to this Toyota fiasco.

[aubierules]

Originally Posted by Tom in NM

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Tom in NM

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

For a great many people, this would be an exceedingly hard decision...or at least a slow one. In the heat of the moment, many wouldn't realize quickly enough that their lives are more important than a blown engine, so they might hesitate. Not putting a vehicle with an engine at full throttle in neutral is somewhat instinctive, and they would have to fight those first instincts. I have seen it on the race track, and real life drivers aren't as experienced, in general, as race drivers.

[spyryder]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

Many modern cars also have rev limiters which won't allow the engine to exceed 3-4000 RPM's in park or neutral.

[Tom in NM]

Here is a video of what Toyota recommends.

http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/...procedure.html

It seems pretty clear and concise - and answers a lot of the questions above. Though, that pressing the "button" for 3 seconds seemed like an eternity.

Tom

[QuadManiac]

Originally Posted by NancysToy

Not putting a vehicle with an engine at full throttle in neutral is somewhat instinctive, and they would have to fight those first instincts. I have seen it on the race track, and real life drivers aren't as experienced, in general, as race drivers.

race drivers AND, I would have expected, a long time California Highway Patrol officer - whose job was driving and, as I recall, is trained in the art of driving as part of the job.

It's beyond me how, with his experience, he couldn't have stopped that car ... but somehow, he was not able to. That is the issue in all this that worries me the most. I suggest we all plan ahead and practice for unexpected situations.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by QuadManiac

I suggest we all plan ahead and practice for unexpected situations.

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by Firefly

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

You hit the nail right on the head, my friend!

[boborgera]

Originally Posted by Firefly

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

Most people don't know what 1 and 2 are for let alone N.
I see most drivers going down hills in snow/ice riding their brakes instead
of dropping the trans. into 2 or 1 to slow down.

P/S = Auto trans / Power steering / Power brakes, should be outlawed.
That alone will get most idiots off the roads.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by boborgera

Most people don't know what 1 and 2 are for let alone N.
I see most drivers going down hills in snow/ice riding their brakes instead
of dropping the trans. into 2 or 1 to slow down.

P/S = Auto trans / Power steering / Power brakes, should be outlawed.
That alone will get most idiots off the roads.

Good ideas.

Most shouldn't be driving at all IMO.

We got some decent snow and icy roads right now and it's a regular idiot festival outside. People gunning their gas trying to get their car to move on ice just drives me NUTS.

[Way2Fast]

Depending on the vehicle, putting the transmision in neutral might not be as easy as it seems. Some vehicles have a "sport" or manual mode which requires all shifts to be made by steering wheel paddles. With this application the vehicles computer will not allow a manual downshift to occur above a certain speed. Hence, you are not able to downshift to get into neutral with a runaway throttle. The Lexus the retired police officer was driving may have had the paddle shifters which might have prevented him from reaching neutral without first doing back into standard "drive" mode......just an possibility.

[Smylinacha]

Originally Posted by boborgera

Most people don't know what 1 and 2 are for let alone N.
I see most drivers going down hills in snow/ice riding their brakes instead
of dropping the trans. into 2 or 1 to slow down.

P/S = Auto trans / Power steering / Power brakes, should be outlawed.
That alone will get most idiots off the roads.

My Charger has a paddle shifter on it - I rarely put it in Drive and drive it that way. All my other cars were standards. I think it is better to shift it yourself - gives you more control of the vehicle.

[2333]

Two things. On the original post, I am with you MO. On the Toyota thing, I think I read that the friction device that is sticking was put in to give drivers more "feel" at the pedal. Why was more feel needed? Because the car is drive by wire.

[krb1945]

RShrimpfor reminding me that some of the new models have started using 40's and 50's push to start again. I hope they don't go back to the floor model foot starter again.

I guess if I had one of the push to start models I'd probably install a "dead mans" switch on the dash.

There is validity to the old adage "history repeats its self". /Ken

[NancysToy]

Originally Posted by krb1945

RShrimpfor reminding me that some of the new models have started using 40's and 50's push to start again. I hope they don't go back to the floor model foot starter again.

I guess if I had one of the push to start models I'd probably install a "dead mans" switch on the dash.

There is validity to the old adage "history repeats its self". /Ken

There is a difference in the old "push-to-start" models and those of today. On the old ones, like my 53 F-100, you pushed to start, but turned the ignition on and off with the key switch. These new ones have you push and hold the button, from what I have read. I hope I am dead and gone by the time "thumbprint identification" models become standard. I agree about the kill switch.

[obiwanbill]

Problem with all the sensors and computers is that if/when something shorts out, it will cost a fortune to fix. Thank Gawd for the extended warranties

[bone crusher]

Originally Posted by Mo Lee

I think the automotive industry (motorcycle included) was better off maybe 20 years ago when on board computers only controlled fuel handling and emissions, and not when to accelerate, brake, or steer. With all the recent recalls and problems you would think we would have learned something from Microsoft and Windows, computer systems crash. Just think of how much this technical advancement have added to the cost of a vehicle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but somethings I prefer to control myself. For those of you chose to tell me how crazy or not I am please include if you consider yourself a Gearhead or not.

I agree...sometimes less is better...the old BMWs with mechanical 4 wheel drive vs. all the fancy stuff now...they still work great...(late 1980s).

Some is good, but not everything controlled by electronics...sure glad we have a key to start our bike...that's a nice convenience...