Anyone else had problems with Fuel in oil? Ideas?

[msgoodwrench]

Has anyone else had the problem of fuel getting into your oil? What was the cause? Even just replacing the fuel injectors you have to have B.U.D.S., right? What else could cause the fuel to get into the oil? Thanks for your ideas.

[Bfromla]

Unfortunately any number of gaskets & none simple. Is there just smell or additional evidence?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Has anyone else had the problem of fuel getting into your oil? What was the cause? Even just replacing the fuel injectors you have to have B.U.D.S., right? What else could cause the fuel to get into the oil? Thanks for your ideas.

I see you have a V-Twin engine ..... when I had my 08 GS there was a tube that went into the air cleaner, by-passing the air filter .... after taking Ron's advice I disconnected that line and plugged the hole in the air box .... my engine ran better after I did that ..... Have you done this to yours? .... Mike

[Freddy]

Is there just smell or additional evidence? asks Bf

[msgoodwrench]

Thank you, yes, checked oil because it seems to use some, and the level was way high! So I pumped some out, and that oil and the dipstick smell of gas. I ride 25 miles to work, so no short trip syndrome or long idling time for this machine. Wondering if it has to have B.U.D.S. connected really, or can I change out the injector without that? Thank you much for your input.

I bought this machine used 2 years ago. I had the air box off last winter to change filters, really don't know about this hose... I will need to take that airbox off again because of high oil level, so I want to know what to check. Anyway you have a photo? Thank you so much.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I bought this machine used 2 years ago. I had the air box off last winter to change filters, really don't know about this hose... I will need to take that airbox off again because of high oil level, so I want to know what to check. Anyway you have a photo? Thank you so much.

NO photo. If you remove the left side panel and expose that side of the engine, you should see a short hose that connects to the left side of the air box; remove it from the air box (plug the hole) & put a Fuel filter on it. You can add a hose to the other end and direct it down thru the tupperware under panel. Good luck ... Mike

[msgoodwrench]

NO photo. If you remove the left side panel and expose that side of the engine, you should see a short hose that connects to the left side of the air box; remove it from the air box (plug the hole) & put a Fuel filter on it. You can add a hose to the other end and direct it down thru the tupperware under panel. Good luck ... Mike

Thanks for your info. So put a filter on the end I plug? Then use the other end to add to and use as a 'drain tube"?

Thank you so much, I appreciate the help you guys give. I put a new fuel filter on it just last winter when I changed the air filter, oil, oil filters, new plugs, and wires. I didn't do anything with B.U.D.S. then; breaking into the fuel line, so I was wondering if it is absolutely necessary that you use B.U.D.S. when removing the injectors?

[msgoodwrench]

Unfortunately any number of gaskets & none simple. Is there just smell or additional evidence?

Thank you, yes, checked oil because it seems to use some, and the level was way high! So I pumped some out, and that oil and the dipstick smell of gas. I ride 25 miles to work, so no short trip syndrome or long idling time for this machine. Wondering if it has to have B.U.D.S. connected really, or can I change out the injector without that? Thank you much for your input.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks for your info. So put a filter on the end I plug? Then use the other end to add to and use as a 'drain tube"?

Thank you so much, I appreciate the help you guys give. I put a new fuel filter on it just last winter when I changed the air filter, oil, oil filters, new plugs, and wires. I didn't do anything with B.U.D.S. then; breaking into the fuel line, so I was wondering if it is absolutely necessary that you use B.U.D.S. when removing the injectors?

I'm not sure about "So put a filter on the end I plug"???? The "PLUG" goes on/into the hole in the lower rear corner of the AirBox (after you dis-connect the HOSE!) You put the Filter on the end of that hose and add a drain line to the bottom area near the oil reservoir. ... Mike

[Freddy]

Thank you, yes, checked oil because it seems to use some, and the level was way high! So I pumped some out, and that oil and the dipstick smell of gas. I ride 25 miles to work, so no short trip syndrome or long idling time for this machine. Wondering if it has to have B.U.D.S. connected really, or can I change out the injector without that? Thank you much for your input.

I wouldn't rely on my nose to identify fuel in oil. Either have a sample tested or put fresh oil in and keep a close check on the level over a few weeks. Take the guesswork out of it - but that's just me.

[msgoodwrench]

I'm not sure about "So put a filter on the end I plug"???? The "PLUG" goes on/into the hole in the lower rear corner of the AirBox (after you dis-connect the HOSE!) You put the Filter on the end of that hose and add a drain line to the bottom area near the oil reservoir. ... Mike

Ok, sorry, misconception! That's why I asked. Pull the hose, plug the hole in the airbox, put a filter on the end of the pulled hose, and install and additional hose heading down to drain it out. I have it right now, correct?

[msgoodwrench]

I wouldn't rely on my nose to identify fuel in oil. Either have a sample tested or put fresh oil in and keep a close check on the level over a few weeks. Take the guesswork out of it - but that's just me.

Ok, I can do that, I just wasn't sure just how much it could stand. I don't want to ruin it. But I checked the oil again last night and it has stayed the same; smell test on dipstick wasn't overall convincing either. So, I may try it again with fresh oil. Thank you for your thoughts. It is hard to tell just where the oil is, and where the 'splash' is when I check it hot. Much easier to tell if it has risen if I check it cold, and relate to earlier checks. Thanks again.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ok, sorry, misconception! That's why I asked. Pull the hose, plug the hole in the airbox, put a filter on the end of the pulled hose, and install and additional hose heading down to drain it out. I have it right now, correct?

BINGO .....Mike

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re way overthinking this. The procedure for getting an accurate reading of oil level is to check it hot. Not when the coolant is hot, but when the oil is hot. Come home from your ride, turn off the engine and check it immediately. Pull the dipstick out, wipe it, screw it all the way back in, pull it out and check. There’s no splash. If you delay, oil will gravity drain from the tank back into the sump over time. You can get a 3 inch rise on the dipstick between cold and hot.

When oil level is proper, it doesn’t even show on the dipstick when cold. Checking it cold is bad information and shouldn’t be done.

The vast majority of oil level issues on the 998 is just improper technique checking and adding oil. And besides, your riding style and habits would preclude gas accumulating in the oil, anyway. The high oil temperature will evaporate off any accumulation of gasoline.

So, check it and adjust the level correctly. Only when hot. Then follow the trend in oil level. Personally, I think you’re fine. Yes, go forward with that crankcase breather mod. Helps with other issues.

[Mikey]

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re way overthinking this. The procedure for getting an accurate reading of oil level is to check it hot. Not when the coolant is hot, but when the oil is hot. Come home from your ride, turn off the engine and check it immediately. Pull the dipstick out, wipe it, screw it all the way back in, pull it out and check. There’s no splash. If you delay, oil will gravity drain from the tank back into the sump over time. You can get a 3 inch rise on the dipstick between cold and hot.

When oil level is proper, it doesn’t even show on the dipstick when cold. Checking it cold is bad information and shouldn’t be done.

The vast majority of oil level issues on the 998 is just improper technique checking and adding oil. And besides, your riding style and habits would preclude gas accumulating in the oil, anyway. The high oil temperature will evaporate off any accumulation of gasoline.

So, check it and adjust the level correctly. Only when hot. Then follow the trend in oil level. Personally, I think you’re fine. Yes, go forward with that crankcase breather mod. Helps with other issues.

Does he have an evap system on that bike?

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Does he have a evap system on that bike?

Yeah. All of the Spyders have evap/charcoal canister systems. If the engine is running, any fuel or vapors are just re-burned in the engine - rear cylinder on the 998. If the engine is not running, any excess or overflow of liquid gas just goes out the vent onto the ground underneath the machine. A faulty purge valve would present itself in other ways. It's just not realistic that a dripping fuel injector(s) adds anything significant to the oil level in the oil tank. It would be so flooded it would be impossible to start, and it's not a gravity fed system. Replacing the fuel injectors doesn't require BUDS, anyway. Testing them does, but that is only an electrical test. If one wants to do a leakage test, then you do a fuel pressure test and then watch for how fast the pressure decays after the fuel pump is turned off. An issue that is typically corrected with some fuel system cleaner.

All I can do is lead the OP to the watering-hole.

[msgoodwrench]

BINGO .....Mike

So glad for your input! I did finally find that old thread where Ron posted his comments and pictures. Also I looked at your fix in your album for the canister-ectomy; looks good! Thank you so much!

[msgoodwrench]

Yeah. All of the Spyders have evap/charcoal canister systems. If the engine is running, any fuel or vapors are just re-burned in the engine - rear cylinder on the 998. If the engine is not running, any excess or overflow of liquid gas just goes out the vent onto the ground underneath the machine. A faulty purge valve would present itself in other ways. It's just not realistic that a dripping fuel injector(s) adds anything significant to the oil level in the oil tank. It would be so flooded it would be impossible to start, and it's not a gravity fed system. Replacing the fuel injectors doesn't require BUDS, anyway. Testing them does, but that is only an electrical test. If one wants to do a leakage test, then you do a fuel pressure test and then watch for how fast the pressure decays after the fuel pump is turned off. An issue that is typically corrected with some fuel system cleaner.

All I can do is lead the OP to the watering-hole.

Wow, thank you! Lots of good info. Finally, someone who answered about B.U.D.S. Thankfully it sounds like I won't need to worry about it anyway. I mean, this thing only has 25k on it. I am getting some cleaner to run thru it anyway. So, yes, I have now read many, many, things to suggest that it is imperative as to how you check the oil! I think it is still too high. My problem was that there appeared to be more and more oil in the sump. That is why I suspected fuel in the oil. I thought maybe it smelled like gas, but I wasn't entirely convinced.

First off, I just need to very carefully and correctly check that oil level! I will go from there and see how things progress, to see if there really is an issue. Right now, cold, it is a little over half-way up the stick, so it is already too much. When I suspected fuel in the oil, I was afraid to ride it anymore and really wreck something else. New oil, and carefully check level... Many thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions - great forum!

[Spyderryan]

That can only be crankcase vent tube and would burn off Vapor from engine oil, I don’t think it’s fuel tank related at all is it?

[Mikey]

That can only be crankcase vent tube and would burn off Vapor from engine oil, I don’t think it’s fuel tank related at all is it?

Your fuel tank overflow runs into a charcoal filter that has a valve on it, then goes back into the crank case that will dump vapor and/or fuel into it. Weird as it seems, if you top your tank off to the top a lot, and the filter gets full, then you can get fuel back into your crank case!

[Allen42]

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re way overthinking this. The procedure for getting an accurate reading of oil level is to check it hot. Not when the coolant is hot, but when the oil is hot. Come home from your ride, turn off the engine and check it immediately. Pull the dipstick out, wipe it, screw it all the way back in, pull it out and check. There’s no splash. If you delay, oil will gravity drain from the tank back into the sump over time. You can get a 3 inch rise on the dipstick between cold and hot.

When oil level is proper, it doesn’t even show on the dipstick when cold. Checking it cold is bad information and shouldn’t be done.

The vast majority of oil level issues on the 998 is just improper technique checking and adding oil. And besides, your riding style and habits would preclude gas accumulating in the oil, anyway. The high oil temperature will evaporate off any accumulation of gasoline.

So, check it and adjust the level correctly. Only when hot. Then follow the trend in oil level. Personally, I think you’re fine. Yes, go forward with that crankcase breather mod. Helps with other issues.

Did this change from year to year? My 2019 RTL (1330) manual very clearly states to let it idle for 10 minutes after reaching operating temperature before checking the oil. So I go for a ride, and at the end of the ride I let it idle while I remove the plastic, then I shut it off and check the oil. BTW, I hate bent dipstick tubes. Seems like there always false tell residue on the edges, and it's hard to get a pure "for sure" reading.

[BajaRon]

Did this change from year to year? My 2019 RTL (1330) manual very clearly states to let it idle for 10 minutes after reaching operating temperature before checking the oil. So I go for a ride, and at the end of the ride I let it idle while I remove the plastic, then I shut it off and check the oil. BTW, I hate bent dipstick tubes. Seems like there always false tell residue on the edges, and it's hard to get a pure "for sure" reading.

Yes, the BRP instructions have changed over the years. But in my opinion, the changes were unnecessary. Here is something that you should try. Ride, get the engine oil up to operating temperature, stop and check the oil level. Then start it up and let it idle for 10 minutes and check again. I am confident that you won't see a dims worth of difference between the 2 checks. Not only is letting your engine idle for 10 minutes wasteful and aggravating, but it's also downright bad for the engine!

[Allen42]

Yes, the BRP instructions have changed over the years. But in my opinion, the changes were unnecessary. Here is something that you should try. Ride, get the engine oil up to operating temperature, stop and check the oil level. Then start it up and let it idle for 10 minutes and check again. I am confident that you won't see a dims worth of difference between the 2 checks. Not only is letting your engine idle for 10 minutes wasteful and aggravating, but it's also downright bad for the engine!

Idling when it’s hot at the end of the ride is bad? I thought you had always meant idling cold then turning it back off was bad.

FWIW, here’s my service manual procedure and explanation:

Verifying the Engine Oil Level
NOTICE The oil level must be checked and adjusted when the oil temperature is between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), to obtain a precise reading on the dipstick of the actual quantity of oil in the engine.
1. Take a ride of minimum 15 km (9.3 mi).
2. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
3. Let the engine run at idle for 10 minutes. NOTICE Alternative warm up procedure for the dealers workshop: If it is not possible to take a 15km(9.3mi) ride it is admissible to achieve the adequate engine oil temperature by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes.
NOTE: Running engine at idle as described will maintain the engine oil temperature between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), and allow the scavenge oil pumps to drain the oil from the engine back into the oil tank. Not carrying out this step could result in overfilling the engine oil.
NOTICE Perform engine oil level verification within 2 minutes after engine shutdown.
4. Stop engine.
5. Unscrew and remove the oil dipstick.
…blah blah blah

[Peter Aawen]

Idling when it’s hot at the end of the ride is bad? I thought you had always meant idling cold then turning it back off was bad.

FWIW, here’s my service manual procedure and explanation:

Yes, and No, not JUST then!! The simple and basic fact is that IDLING your IC Engine is bad, especially for anything much longer than sitting waiting for the traffic lights to change!

So if you let it idle excessively when it’s hot at the end of the ride, IT IS bad! Also, if you let it idle for too long when cold, IT IS bad; AND if you do that thinking that you're helping the battery stay good, you are NOT!! That will just hasten the demise of the battery! And even that Alternative procedure for making sure the oil is up to temp by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes is not good - but it is possibly better than NOT checking the oil level at oil temp and overfilling the oil; and besides, they're a dealer, they WANT you to either need to bring your Spyder in to get it repaired due to too much idling, or better yet, to trade it in on a new Spyder!! So it's not bad, for them, just for your engine!!

At its most basic, idling your Spyder's engine for anything much longer that waiting for the lights to change is NOT GOOD for the engine or its battery (or the environment for those who are concerned about that aspect of all this ) In fact, idling just about any IC Engine for anything much longer is not good for the engine (or the environment) ; and if at all possible, should be minimised if not avoided if possible!

Just Sayin'

[Allen42]

Yes, and No, not JUST then!! The simple and basic fact is that IDLING your IC Engine is bad, especially for anything much longer than sitting waiting for the traffic lights to change!

So if you let it idle excessively when it’s hot at the end of the ride, IT IS bad! Also, if you let it idle for too long when cold, IT IS bad; AND if you do that thinking that you're helping the battery stay good, you are NOT!! That will just hasten the demise of the battery! And even that Alternative procedure for making sure the oil is up to temp by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes is not good - but it is possibly better than NOT checking the oil level at oil temp and overfilling the oil; and besides, they're a dealer, they WANT you to either need to bring your Spyder in to get it repaired due to too much idling, or better yet, to trade it in on a new Spyder!! So it's not bad, for them, just for your engine!!

At its most basic, idling your Spyder's engine for anything much longer that waiting for the lights to change is NOT GOOD for the engine or its battery (or the environment for those who are concerned about that aspect of all this ) In fact, idling just about any IC Engine for anything much longer is not good for the engine (or the environment) ; and if at all possible, should be minimised if not avoided if possible!

Just Sayin'

The "oil scavaging" part is hooey, and can be ignored? I'm paranoid to not overfill or underfill my oil level, and I want to get it right.