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Originally Posted by 2dogs
You ask where your information comes from regarding the quality problem here, the proof lies in the purchase; and it is the general public that passes judgment on an item whether it's a quality item or not. Who else would have the final say?
You are talking about perceived quality. The quality of a product is a very simple measure that has nothing to do with what the public thinks. Quality is not the ability of a product to meet it's performance requirements, it is a measure of if it does meet company defined performance requirements. These requirements are set by management,not the public. Unfortunatly, it is the general opinion (mine included) that BRP has set the bar way to low on Spyders. I have been quite critical of BRP for issues that to me seem as if they should never have been sent out for public consumption. Changing oil or battery replacement is a good example of physical issues with the 998 RTs. Their manuals historically are horrible. While I don't agree that BRP should have sent units into the hands of customers with these issues, none of them has anything to do with quality. The 2013 RT is another question about BRPs commitment. In the automotive world, a Pinto met it's quality standards far more easily than a Cadillac. This is mainly because the company defined requirements for what the product was expected to do was significantly different. Also, the pinto would have been defined at a level that was based on it's very basic function. It still would have a quality level that matched or exceeded the Cadillac.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Peteoz
It gives a new meaning to having a death grip on the bars, Jack.....no one wants to fall off
Pete
For you Pete and all my friends in OZ, HANG IN there. Help is on it's way!
G-day, Jack
All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.
2019 Specialized E-Bike COMO 2.0
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
2018 Tiffin Phaeton 37BH Motorhome
2015 BMW R1200R LC
2014 RTL SE6 Pearl White
2012 RT-622 trailer viper red
2014 Look 7x12 motorcycle trailer silver and black
2011 Polaris Ranger green
2013 GMC Yukon Denali XL silver oak
2016 Can Am Maverick
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Originally Posted by rcturner
You are talking about perceived quality. The quality of a product is a very simple measure that has nothing to do with what the public thinks. Quality is not the ability of a product to meet it's performance requirements, it is a measure of if it does meet company defined performance requirements. These requirements are set by management,not the public. Unfortunatly, it is the general opinion (mine included) that BRP has set the bar way to low on Spyders. I have been quite critical of BRP for issues that to me seem as if they should never have been sent out for public consumption. Changing oil or battery replacement is a good example of physical issues with the 998 RTs. Their manuals historically are horrible. While I don't agree that BRP should have sent units into the hands of customers with these issues, none of them has anything to do with quality. The 2013 RT is another question about BRPs commitment. In the automotive world, a Pinto met it's quality standards far more easily than a Cadillac. This is mainly because the company defined requirements for what the product was expected to do was significantly different. Also, the pinto would have been defined at a level that was based on it's very basic function. It still would have a quality level that matched or exceeded the Cadillac.
That is where the problem is; our expectation of what we are getting and their expectation of what they are selling. Any company is going to make something just "good enough" to last a projected time; preferably as short as possible. That is why BRP changed the tire compound prior to 2014. There excuse was to make the tire grip better. i got one of those wonderful tires that wore out in less than 6,000 miles. Then, they again changed it to a harder compound after 2014 because of so many complaints.
Any company can lower their standards on any components, but that is a two edged sword. If they screw us enough then we will go elsewhere to purchase better quality. BRP has missed this point again and again. They develop an awesome byke with a practically bullet proof engine and transmission, then they nickle and dime us with crappy tires, shocks, air compressors, weak side case joints, to name a few. Notice that these items are all "consumable" or wearable items? They want us to replace them over and over for the life of the byke. That is a cash cow for them.
The point they are missing is that we are buying the Cadillac model in our perception and they are slipping in Pinto parts on us.
In my opinion all of the negative information about the "pinto" parts failure cheapens this awesome machine in the public's eyes. That directly effects sales and company growth. Consumers are more intelligent than they give us credit for and they would do better on sales to improve the image. After all, the Cadillac is still being produced, but the Pinto is in the wind.....
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by jaherbst
We be talking compound here nothing else. Softer rubber with a better grip than a car tire. Mainly due to the small amount of weight on Spyder and
motorcycle tires. Simple i.e. tire mileage or safety.
Not sure about you but my Spyders are registered as a motorcycle as required by state law. I believe it is the same in all states.
Jack
Tire compounds come in a wide range. Both on motorcycle tires and on passenger car tires. There are soft performance tires in each and hard long wear tires in each. Saying 'motorcycle tire' calls out a bead and tread profile as defined by the standards. Standards Kenda tires used on the Spyder do not meet. It does not call out a specific tread compound durometer.
I happen to agree with the point you are trying to make. The spyder needs a softer compound tire. Like what is available on the more performance oriented car tires. This is why we stock and install the Yokohama S-Drive for the rear and not some of the harder longer wearing options.
If the Kenda was not so poorly constructed such that it cannot support its tread surface at speed, it would actually last approx 15 to 18k miles with the compound they use. The wear out prematurely in the center because that is the only part of the tire actually in contact with the road at speed.
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To answer the question about my Yoko's before the ranting started. LOL....
This video is now a year old. I had about 9K on it then. Now I have 13K (just checked). Yea I have not been doing as much riding as I was the year before. I wound up working a lot more from home so far less commuting to work than before. I can probably get another 2K out of it.
Bottom line, I will replace it with another Yoko period!
Bob
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by rcturner
2. You are claiming that the carcass is substandard or less than exactly what it is supposed to be. I am guessing but I would expect that this tire is exactly what BRP specified and asked for. If not, Kenda would have to do a lot of explaining to BRP and the tire would have changed within a few inventory cycles.
The story I heard years ago (maybe I read it here on Spyderlovers) was that, when BRP initially solicited tire makers to supply tires for Spyders, Kenda was the only manufacturer to respond. Slightly odd sizes; not enough of a market to warrant the effort. So BRP was kinda stuck with whatever quality of tire Kenda supplied.
BTW: wanna guess what tires come on Slingshots? I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count.
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Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Fat Baxter
The story I heard years ago (maybe I read it here on Spyderlovers) was that, when BRP initially solicited tire makers to supply tires for Spyders, Kenda was the only manufacturer to respond. Slightly odd sizes; not enough of a market to warrant the effort. So BRP was kinda stuck with whatever quality of tire Kenda supplied.
BTW: wanna guess what tires come on Slingshots? I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count.
Thats a lot of money for the Polaris rear Slingshot tire. $169? I get mine for $180 installed at my most unfavorite dealer. They are the only game in town and have over 40+ Spyder dealerships. If the compound is softer on the Yokohama S Drives as JC Thorne pointed out it might be a consideration. The weight on each Spyder tire is + or - only 375# and anyone using a high mileage harder compound tire is looking for trouble on both wet or dry surfaces. On a 4-5000# car you have 1000-1250 pounds per tire to increase "grip". In my career and 66 years of riding and racing motorcycles I will choose safety over a high mileage, hard compound tire any day. I am certainly no tire expert but always think safety first. It's just a matter of physics after all.
Jack
All my life I wanted to be somebody, now I realize I should have been more specific.
2019 Specialized E-Bike COMO 2.0
2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland
2018 Tiffin Phaeton 37BH Motorhome
2015 BMW R1200R LC
2014 RTL SE6 Pearl White
2012 RT-622 trailer viper red
2014 Look 7x12 motorcycle trailer silver and black
2011 Polaris Ranger green
2013 GMC Yukon Denali XL silver oak
2016 Can Am Maverick
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Harrington, Australia
2021 RT Limited
Setup for Tall & Big.... 200cm/6'7", 140kg/300lbs, 37"inleg.
HeliBars Handlebars
Brake rubber removed to lower pedal for easier long leg/Size 15 EEEEW boot access.
Ikon (Aussie) shocks all round.
Russell Daylong seat 2” taller than stock (in Sunbrella for Aussie heat & water resistance)
Goodyear Duragrip 165/60 fronts (18psi) - provides extra 1/2” ground clearance.
Kenda Kanine rear.
2021 RT Limited , Brake pedal rubber removed for ease of accessing pedal with size 15 boots. Red
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Originally Posted by jaherbst
Thats a lot of money for the Polaris rear Slingshot tire. $169? I get mine for $180 installed at my most unfavorite dealer. They are the only game in town and have over 40+ Spyder dealerships. If the compound is softer on the Yokohama S Drives as JC Thorne pointed out it might be a consideration. The weight on each Spyder tire is + or - only 375# and anyone using a high mileage harder compound tire is looking for trouble on both wet or dry surfaces. On a 4-5000# car you have 1000-1250 pounds per tire to increase "grip". In my career and 66 years of riding and racing motorcycles I will choose safety over a high mileage, hard compound tire any day. I am certainly no tire expert but always think safety first. It's just a matter of physics after all.
Jack
Jack, I understand that you need to feel safe. And we do too. My wife first started ryding solo this past season on our '14RT. She logged about 8,000 miles. This is ryding some of the most dangerous roads in North Carolina and Tennessee (Rattler, Tail of the Dragon, etc.). In that entire 8,000 miles she never had either a front or rear wheel break loose and cause her any grief. PRIOR TO THIS SHE HAD NEVER RIDDEN SOLO BEFORE! What kind of tires do we have on the RT? Federal EVO's on the front with about 5,000 miles on them And the Michelin Hydroedge with 36,000 miles.
Prior to letting her start ryding the RT I knew the performance of these tires; either single or solo. I have road solo around corners so fast that the front tires will growl from the friction, but not loose traction. I have gotten a wheel up a foot off the ground with no slipping issues whatsoever.
I was making a quick run to a parts manufacturer in Cincinnati earlier this year in the rain and I came to a underpass in the city that had about 12" of standing water at about 45 mph. The byke hit the water and immediately started to hydroplane. I kept my cool, didn't hit the brake or try to steer out of it and the nanny kicked in, stabilized the byke, slowed it down, and I continued on my way. Regardless of what tire, it would have still done that. That is the only time that those tires have broke traction.
I am running the exact same setup on my Daytona and I noticed when i first put the Hydroedge on the rear, it would break traction pretty easily, but after 5,000 miles it has worn down enough that it bites very well on dry road. When it is wet it is a completely different story. But the Kendra that came with it was the same way. I just take care when I ryde in wet weather, knowing full well that the rear end can get a little loose. Never have I had a problem with the fronts loosing traction, wet or dry.
I guess it comes down to what makes you feel safe. My wife does not ryde in wet weather. And if she happens to get caught she takes extra care. We have another Hydroedge waiting for when she finally wears hers out. No telling when that will be.
I respect your opinion, but we'll keep doing what works for us.
Last edited by Roadster Renovations; 11-20-2017 at 05:53 AM.
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Originally Posted by jaherbst
...I get mine for $180 installed at my most unfavorite dealer. They are the only game in town and have over 40+ Spyder dealerships...
Jack
You folks are wasting your time trying to convince Jack. He already said the Spyder dealer he chooses will only install OEM tires and as he is not about to take his Spyder anywhere else or pull the wheels himself to get new tires installed he is going to stick with his opinion no matter what information he is presented with.
Last edited by WA5VHU; 11-20-2017 at 03:16 PM.
Current:
2016 Honda CTX700 DCT ABS (faring model)
Kip Moto SherpaX Cargo Trailer
Wife Has:
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited
2016 Lees-ure Lite Camping Trailer
Previous:
2013 Can-Am Spyder RS SE5, zoom-zoom!
2011 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SE5, Foot Burner - Gasoline Boiling Stinker - Gas Tank Vacuum Puller
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Originally Posted by akspyderman
Does that mean me too? My next nearest dealer is about 1500 miles away. Washington State or Whitehorse, Yukon Territory.
And to top it off, I am not mechanical. OEM's or another brand of bike for me.
Yes.
But only if you insist and continue to insist that the OEM tires are the only tires that are to be put on BRP Can-Am Spyders in order to prevent the destruction of this solar system.
I think we are all dancing around the elephant in the room here. Since we are talking about Spyders shouldn't we all be calling them tyres?
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Current:
2016 Honda CTX700 DCT ABS (faring model)
Kip Moto SherpaX Cargo Trailer
Wife Has:
2014 Can-Am Spyder RT Limited
2016 Lees-ure Lite Camping Trailer
Previous:
2013 Can-Am Spyder RS SE5, zoom-zoom!
2011 Can-Am Spyder RT-S SE5, Foot Burner - Gasoline Boiling Stinker - Gas Tank Vacuum Puller
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"Since we are talking about Spyders shouldn't we all be calling them tyres?" only if you are British
Happy TRAils/NSD
Paul
2012 RT L
AMA 25 years Life Member
TRA
PGR
Rhino Riders Plate #83
Venturers #78
TOI
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Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie
2013 RT Ltd Pearl White
Ryde More, Worry Less!
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Originally Posted by finless
To answer the question about my Yoko's before the ranting started. LOL....
This video is now a year old. I had about 9K on it then. Now I have 13K (just checked). Yea I have not been doing as much riding as I was the year before. I wound up working a lot more from home so far less commuting to work than before. I can probably get another 2K out of it.
Bottom line, I will replace it with another Yoko period!
Bob
What pressure are you running that tire at? Manual calls for 26-30 for the original Kenda, I have the Yoko now but have yet to get it on the road, waiting on a belt tension gauge to finish up the job.
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Happy TRAils/NSD
Paul
2012 RT L
AMA 25 years Life Member
TRA
PGR
Rhino Riders Plate #83
Venturers #78
TOI
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