1330 Performance Upgrades

[SpyderAnn01]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

[Poseidon]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

That is the number one reason why BRP or the aftermarket needs to step up and find ways (like giving the Spyder more power) to draw the younger crowd to it. It is a fun machine to ride. It would be more fun with more power and even better handling! Younger generations are not riding bikes (2 or 3 wheel) in the numbers that previous generations did at their age. If something doesn't change, there are going to be fewer and fewer riders buying fewer bikes. More models are going to be dropped from production, and more manufacturers are going to close their doors or move on to making different products to stay in business.

The first two companies I see to experience this will be Harley Davidson and the Spyder branch of BRP as they both tend to have the oldest population of customers compared to other manufacturers. I think Honda understands that this is happening. They brought out the new Gold Wing that is slimmer, lighter, with better performance and handling, and a lot more tech built in. They still are not going to draw many 20 year olds, but they are a lot more likely to draw in some customers in their 30's and 40's vs being the "old man bike" that they use to be. It is definitely a step in the right direction!

[UtahPete]

That is the number one reason why BRP or the aftermarket needs to step up and find ways (like giving the Spyder more power) to draw the younger crowd to it. It is a fun machine to ride. It would be more fun with more power and even better handling! Younger generations are not riding bikes (2 or 3 wheel) in the numbers that previous generations did at their age. If something doesn't change, there are going to be fewer and fewer riders buying fewer bikes. More models are going to be dropped from production, and more manufacturers are going to close their doors or move on to making different products to stay in business.

The first two companies I see to experience this will be Harley Davidson and the Spyder branch of BRP as they both tend to have the oldest population of customers compared to other manufacturers. I think Honda understands that this is happening. They brought out the new Gold Wing that is slimmer, lighter, with better performance and handling, and a lot more tech built in. They still are not going to draw many 20 year olds, but they are a lot more likely to draw in some customers in their 30's and 40's vs being the "old man bike" that they use to be. It is definitely a step in the right direction!

Spyder's niche market is big enough without going after the nut-jobs.

[Poseidon]

Spyder's niche market is big enough without going after the nut-jobs.

You are obviously not familiar with corporate America. Before you point it out, I know BRP is a Canadian company. I really don't think any big corporation has said "we are big enough, we don't need anymore customers"... EVER!!!!

[Flanker]

That is the number one reason why BRP or the aftermarket needs to step up and find ways (like giving the Spyder more power) to draw the younger crowd to it. It is a fun machine to ride. It would be more fun with more power and even better handling! Younger generations are not riding bikes (2 or 3 wheel) in the numbers that previous generations did at their age. If something doesn't change, there are going to be fewer and fewer riders buying fewer bikes. More models are going to be dropped from production, and more manufacturers are going to close their doors or move on to making different products to stay in business.

The first two companies I see to experience this will be Harley Davidson and the Spyder branch of BRP as they both tend to have the oldest population of customers compared to other manufacturers. I think Honda understands that this is happening. They brought out the new Gold Wing that is slimmer, lighter, with better performance and handling, and a lot more tech built in. They still are not going to draw many 20 year olds, but they are a lot more likely to draw in some customers in their 30's and 40's vs being the "old man bike" that they use to be. It is definitely a step in the right direction!

Amen to all that!

If I could have kept ONE thing from my old RSS; it would have been the sporty riding position. My modded F3S pegs and pedals are a lot better than they were, but NOT where they need to be for proper "vigorous" riding control. That and the seat needs to modded too (high in front/low in back--for sport riding it Should be the other way around).

While this isn't really the answer to your original question (where to get pistons, cams, HD cylinder studs and such) it would be a killer option, and is in line with some of the modded/custom ATVs/UTVs you've posted. As the F3s feature a transverse multi cylinder engine-----imagine your F3 with a Hyabusa or ZX14 engine, transmission, and chain drive conversion. Not only yea, but yea! 200-240 (at the crank) HP is a very realistic target. Widened swing arm to handle a wider rear wheel/tire; upgrade to 17 in wheels to handle larger diameter brake rotors and calipers.

Downside? Mucho dinaro! Long development time. Figuring out how to short circuit/delete all the unwanted nanny ECU crap from BRPs system (might have to ditch it entirely).

If a guy/gal had the budget though, and was determined---I'll bet a place like this shop could handle the project development and integration. Hey! It's a Flex Fuel vehicle! Green as it were. Burns gas and rubber!

https://www.toymakerz.com/

Stop, Flanker! Stop! Before you pee yourself!

[Poseidon]

Amen to all that!

If I could have kept ONE thing from my old RSS; it would have been the sporty riding position. My modded F3S pegs and pedals are a lot better than they were, but NOT where they need to be for proper "vigorous" riding control. That and the seat needs to modded too (high in front/low in back--for sport riding it Should be the other way around).

While this isn't really the answer to your original question (where to get pistons, cams, HD cylinder studs and such) it would be a killer option, and is in line with some of the modded/custom ATVs/UTVs you've posted. As the F3s feature a transverse multi cylinder engine-----imagine your F3 with a Hyabusa or ZX14 engine, transmission, and chain drive conversion. Not only yea, but yea! 200-240 (at the crank) HP is a very realistic target. Widened swing arm to handle a wider rear wheel/tire; upgrade to 17 in wheels to handle larger diameter brake rotors and calipers.

Downside? Mucho dinaro! Long development time. Figuring out how to short circuit/delete all the unwanted nanny ECU crap from BRPs system (might have to ditch it entirely).

If a guy/gal had the budget though, and was determined---I'll bet a place like this shop could handle the project development and integration. Hey! It's a Flex Fuel vehicle! Green as it were. Burns gas and rubber!

https://www.toymakerz.com/

Stop, Flanker! Stop! Before you pee yourself!

You would have to scrap the Spyder’s computer and replace it with the Busa or ZX14 computer for engine management anyway. The nanny wouldn’t be an issue because she would be gone with the swap. Biggest issue would be getting the donor gauges to fit and look decent in the dash after the swap. Lots of little issues with making everything fit and line up properly. Would definitely be a fun project and a fun bike when you were finished.

The thing is, none of that should be necessary if we could tap the power that is hiding in the 1330 we already have. After all, that is pretty much the exact same displacement as the Busa anyway. You can’t tell me that one extra cylinder is responsible for the 100 hp difference between the 2 motors!

[Nik]

Has anyone actually confirmed...in a measureable way, that the ecu reflash can open up that much more torque and horsepower? Sorry but it seems like bull**** to me. “Truth through proof” please, where is the data? For example, I had a cat delete on my Daytona F3 and was told there would be more “power”. I can tell you that I zapped the **** out of my low end torque and gave me a f’ing headache because the damn thing was so loud....and I came from a bmw s1000RR with an Akro full exhaust! I use most of my “power” under 100mph so if there was something out there cranking more torque through the rev range, i’d Love to see the proof!

[Dennis in Lodi]

Hi Nik, this is the best I can do for performance data results. The video link kind of speaks for Itself as I challenge anyone to post their stock RT doing anything like the video. I am anti cat delete as my testing verified noticeable power loss. However, me and Hyper one have found combinations of exhaust upgrades that rock with the flash. I have an RLS delete with an open Spyder One Attitude pipe. BUT, it has taken a total of THREE specific BAFFLES in line to fix and get real low end gain
https://monsterfuelinjection.com/spyder/

This is a clip of my flashed 2015 RT. It's not really as loud as it sounds. Kind of speaks for itself. But like Pete says it's what we deserve from can-am. Can you imagine buying an 8 cylinder Mustang and have them tune it down to a 6 cylinder? Given the Spyder's weight and the many dynos I have paid for, I suspect I'm pushing about 125 to 130 hp with the flash at 8,600 red line.

Flashed my 2016 F3L. Had a 12 mph gain through the test area speed trap over stock, 104 mph to 116 mph. Just a total hot rod that hauls butt ANYTIME you crack the throttle. 6th gear is a little sleepy. Where I really notice the power is taking 3rd or 4th gear down low in the rpm range and run it up to 7,200 rpm. It just absolutely flies through the rpm's in this area. I have the 8,600 red line and it gets kind of ridiculous from 7,200 to red line. I spend most my time shifting well below 6000 rpm as the bike really scoots around. I can smoke the tire off the line at will and can beak traction snapping the throttle open around 6000 rpm in 1st gear.

Here is where the finale product is at for performance.
1. Stock 1st gear 0 to 50 mph @ 6 seconds, Flash 0 to 63 mph @ 6 seconds
2. Stock 2nd gear roll on at 35 mph @ 6 seconds = 63 mph. flash 35 mph to 83 mph 6 seconds
3. Stock 3rd gear roll on at 45 mph @ 6 seconds = 73 mph. flash 45 mph to 96 mph 6 seconds

Has anyone actually confirmed...in a measureable way, that the ecu reflash can open up that much more torque and horsepower? Sorry but it seems like bull**** to me. “Truth through proof” please, where is the data? For example, I had a cat delete on my Daytona F3 and was told there would be more “power”. I can tell you that I zapped the **** out of my low end torque and gave me a f’ing headache because the damn thing was so loud....and I came from a bmw s1000RR with an Akro full exhaust! I use most of my “power” under 100mph so if there was something out there cranking more torque through the rev range, i’d Love to see the proof!

[hypurone]

Has anyone actually confirmed...in a measureable way, that the ecu reflash can open up that much more torque and horsepower? Sorry but it seems like bull**** to me. “Truth through proof” please, where is the data? For example, I had a cat delete on my Daytona F3 and was told there would be more “power”. I can tell you that I zapped the **** out of my low end torque and gave me a f’ing headache because the damn thing was so loud....and I came from a bmw s1000RR with an Akro full exhaust! I use most of my “power” under 100mph so if there was something out there cranking more torque through the rev range, i’d Love to see the proof!

I am anti cat delete as my testing verified noticeable power loss. However, me and Hyper one have found combinations of exhaust upgrades that rock with the flash.

I'm the guy (Hypurone) Dennis is referring to that has an RLS midpipe and custom baffles. I have no low end loss after installing 2 custom baffles in my setup. I did the cat bypass for reasons other than perfromance (weight, heat, smells, sound).

As far as actual performance "in a measureable way", in stock form my 2015 F3-S would start to bog down approaching 100 and struggle to pass 105 mph. It would start to bog down as the end of each higher gear was reached (5th & 6th). It would not pull with any urgency at revs above 7k and if I was in the wrong gear (even just 1 gear up) roll-ons were abysmal!

AFTER the flashing (which had hiccups in my case) was sorted out, all of the above are HISTORY! I can reach insane top speeds. It runs like I dropped a small supercharger in it! There is power everywhere, at any rpm, in any gear, at any throttle position! It evens shifts better! And that is not even one of the selling points of the flash. It is hands down the best mod I have done to the byke. And that is saying a LOT because I value handling above most everything, except power!

There is one downside to the flash! My rear tire is suffering immensely!

[QuadRAGIN]

Has anyone actually confirmed...in a measureable way, that the ecu reflash can open up that much more torque and horsepower? Sorry but it seems like bull**** to me. “Truth through proof” please, where is the data? For example, I had a cat delete on my Daytona F3 and was told there would be more “power”. I can tell you that I zapped the **** out of my low end torque and gave me a f’ing headache because the damn thing was so loud....and I came from a bmw s1000RR with an Akro full exhaust! I use most of my “power” under 100mph so if there was something out there cranking more torque through the rev range, i’d Love to see the proof!

On this page are the Dyno Sheets
https://jediperformance.com/index.php/mc-spyder/spyder/

[Mikey]

On this page are the Dyno Sheets
https://jediperformance.com/index.php/mc-spyder/spyder/

Thank you for the information but,

[PMK]

You would have to scrap the Spyder’s computer and replace it with the Busa or ZX14 computer for engine management anyway. The nanny wouldn’t be an issue because she would be gone with the swap. Biggest issue would be getting the donor gauges to fit and look decent in the dash after the swap. Lots of little issues with making everything fit and line up properly. Would definitely be a fun project and a fun bike when you were finished.

The thing is, none of that should be necessary if we could tap the power that is hiding in the 1330 we already have. After all, that is pretty much the exact same displacement as the Busa anyway. You can’t tell me that one extra cylinder is responsible for the 100 hp difference between the 2 motors!

As a package, even the braced F3 might find the added power, 150 or more, simply too much for the chassis. Seeing that the F3 is kind of labeled as a cruiser style and the RT as a touring style makes it like hoping up the family station wagon. However I do agree that out of the box the RT 1330 needs about 30 more HP. Riding 2 up, it tends to struggle passing semis and busses on the highway. They will be running about 75 to 80 and the Spyder struggles to punch through. We now make the pass more quickly, busting through the airwall at around 85 to 90. It simply lacks roll on power without a downshift, and a downshift at 75 is not what I consider an ideal way to ride with a passenger.

Consider too, any computer swap from a high performance bike would likely lose the ABS setup.

[PMK]

I asked previously on the FB group, has anyone ever measured the cam lobe center degrees? I was told that the cams are installed and rigged by a fixture plate to degree them into oem specs. It would be interesting to know that spec and optimize it a bit as the setup is already slotted and adjustable.

[blacklightning]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

I think that is the problem with them expanding their customer base. . There are a few older people who want more power (like me). And more power would attract a larger costumer base. . They had a 140 hp vtwin that Erik Buell used in his bike, bring it back in a modified RS platform and young people will come. Make a more powerful 1330, and they will stay.

[Rob Rodriguez]

I don't understand the de-tuned engines either. I'm sure both the 998 and the 1330 are capable of more power from the factory but BRP chooses not to use it. A person would think the 1330 would have much better performance than the 998 but in reality they are about the same although I think the 1330 has longer legs on the top end. Maybe BRP feels the design (drive train, electronics, etc) isn't capable of the increase in power?

All I know is I ride with my neighbor a lot who has a 1600 (6 cylinder) BMW sport touring bike. It has about 150hp and weighs about the same as the Spyder (within 60lbs). When we start running continuous speeds down the interstates of 90-105 the Spyder starts to struggle to keep up. I'm there with him but if he decided to go faster for a length of time (passing lots of cars, etc) I'd be playing catch up. So, I know most of you here are going to say...."you shouldn't be going that fast". That's not the point, we could argue that topic forever. The point is BMW's goal is to put a bike on the road that offers a certain level of performance to the rider and riders are expecting a certain level of performance when they buy that bike.

If you never drive above 75 then the 1600 BMW will meet your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 100 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 125 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level better than the lower performance BMW bikes

BRP isn't meeting a performance level for a variety of rider types. They offer 2 bikes, the RT and F3. Yes the F3 comes in different configurations but that revolves around storage and comfort features not performance. Both bikes (the RT and the F3) offer the same 1330 and the same 6 speed tranny. The RT offers a different seating position than the F3. Both bikes have about the same performance (speed, power, handling). Sure you might be able to feel like you can ride an F3 faster than an RT or vice versa but bottom line is both bikes offer about the same level of performance.

This is where BRP misses the boat I think. Different riders want/require different performance levels to satisfy their riding style. BRP tries to offer a one size fits all package that just doesn't excite some riders. Until they offer different levels of performance they are not really going to increase their market share and the same type of riders will continue to own Spyder's which means the brand will continue to be "defined" a certain way.

What's also odd is....in the snowmobile, ATV and Sea-Doo biz BRP does offer different levels of performance and tries to appeal to many different types of riders. I just don't understand why that doesn't carry over into the Spyder line?

[Poseidon]

I don't understand the de-tuned engines either. I'm sure both the 998 and the 1330 are capable of more power from the factory but BRP chooses not to use it. A person would think the 1330 would have much better performance than the 998 but in reality they are about the same although I think the 1330 has longer legs on the top end. Maybe BRP feels the design (drive train, electronics, etc) isn't capable of the increase in power?

All I know is I ride with my neighbor a lot who has a 1600 (6 cylinder) BMW sport touring bike. It has about 150hp and weighs about the same as the Spyder (within 60lbs). When we start running continuous speeds down the interstates of 90-105 the Spyder starts to struggle to keep up. I'm there with him but if he decided to go faster for a length of time (passing lots of cars, etc) I'd be playing catch up. So, I know most of you here are going to say...."you shouldn't be going that fast". That's not the point, we could argue that topic forever. The point is BMW's goal is to put a bike on the road that offers a certain level of performance to the rider and riders are expecting a certain level of performance when they buy that bike.

If you never drive above 75 then the 1600 BMW will meet your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 100 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level but also another BMW of lower performance might be a better bike for you.
If you never drive above 125 then the 1600 BMW meets your performance level better than the lower performance BMW bikes

BRP isn't meeting a performance level for a variety of rider types. They offer 2 bikes, the RT and F3. Yes the F3 comes in different configurations but that revolves around storage and comfort features not performance. Both bikes (the RT and the F3) offer the same 1330 and the same 6 speed tranny. The RT offers a different seating position than the F3. Both bikes have about the same performance (speed, power, handling). Sure you might be able to feel like you can ride an F3 faster than an RT or vice versa but bottom line is both bikes offer about the same level of performance.

This is where BRP misses the boat I think. Different riders want/require different performance levels to satisfy their riding style. BRP tries to offer a one size fits all package that just doesn't excite some riders. Until they offer different levels of performance they are not really going to increase their market share and the same type of riders will continue to own Spyder's which means the brand will continue to be "defined" a certain way.

What's also odd is....in the snowmobile, ATV and Sea-Doo biz BRP does offer different levels of performance and tries to appeal to many different types of riders. I just don't understand why that doesn't carry over into the Spyder line?

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

[HayRog]

I'm liking all the input so far.
I'm not at all well versed in the various intricacies of power upgrades ----- I only know I'd love more power, if only for the safety factor.
I'm looking at the ECU flash - just have to prod myself a little more

Should NOT have sold the FJR1300

[Rob Rodriguez]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

NOPE.......you nailed it Could not agree more.

[MSa1956]

Who are the Aftermarket Companies, like the ECU Flash, or exhaust systems, fuel control measuring. Where can one find such adapt abilities to any can am, I carry precious cargo on my Bike and it's my Beautiful wife.

Mike

[aklim]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested. .

I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun

[aklim]

Anyone know how they tune it if you don't have a dyno for 3 wheels? I suppose you would have to disable the ABS, wouldn't you?

[fatboy]

i believe revolution performance is working on performance up grades for the 1330 there out of wi.

[Poseidon]

I tried telling my wife that it was a safety thing to build my vette to 420 RWHP and she just asked if I also thought that loud pipes saves lives. If I thought I could pull it off, there'd be a supercharger on the vette already, for safety reasons, only. With all the road rage and shooting going on, might be good if I can get out of the way fast. I don't think she buys it either.

Bottom line, I want the wicked acceleration because it's fun

I think you shot yourself in the foot at some point. Either you, or possibly someone else, has taught her way too much about mechanics and performance! Hahaha!

[Wildrice]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

I find it amazing that I'm able to buy a 2018 Ford Mustang GT with almost all the luxury add on features for under $50K--base Mustang GT with standard luxury for $40 K range--not to far off from the loaded Spyder. The base GT 460 HP hits 0-60 in 4 sec or less--seats 4--air conditioned-stability features on the upper end the Spyder hasn't even thought of--10 spd automatic trans, 3 yr standard warranty. Makes no logic to me.
Darrell

[Yukonf3]

I find it amazing that I'm able to buy a 2018 Ford Mustang GT with almost all the luxury add on features for under $50K--base Mustang GT with standard luxury for $40 K range--not to far off from the loaded Spyder. The base GT 460 HP hits 0-60 in 4 sec or less--seats 4--air conditioned-stability features on the upper end the Spyder hasn't even thought of--10 spd automatic trans, 3 yr standard warranty. Makes no logic to me.
Darrell

I believe we can thank the high end motorcycle market, led by HD for the high prices. The market appears ready to pay $20-$35K for high end motorcycles. Conversely high end snowmobiles and seamobiles go for $15K. Volume also contributes I guess.

The other thing is, with the Mustang you can turn off most of the safety features if and when you want. They've even gone the other way and added things like variable exhaust and line lock. I guess Ford doesn't believe all its customers are idiots who will injure or kill themselves without muting power through s/w control.