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Originally Posted by Rigsby
I have read this thread with interest as I have only been riding for a week and was wondering about the manual shifting points for both up and down shifts. Some of my upshifts under gentle acceleration go in with a big CLUNK and then next time the same style upshift seems to go in silently, what is the knack that I am missing ? I find that around the town I don't really need to brake until the last few meters as the engine braking seems to slow me down enough but I am starting to be concerned that other road users don't know I am slowing down during engine braking ( no manual braking so no brake light). What do you more experienced riders do ? It has been good to hear others thoughts and opinions
Can somebody tell me how the likes / thanks work please, I have seen them but don't know how to use them, cheers Rigsby
Ride MOre worry less 02.jpg
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Originally Posted by Old Prof
Rigsby...adding a gear brake will signal cagers behind to the fact you are slowing down even before applying your brakes.
Thanks for the info, I didn't know they existed so I will have a look at the options
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Gear Brake?
Originally Posted by Old Prof
Rigsby...adding a gear brake will signal cagers behind to the fact you are slowing down even before applying your brakes.
Could you explain a "Gear Brake"?
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Brake Lights
Do any of you worry about the guy behind you NOT noticing you're stopping when you don't apply your brakes? I've always worried about that when engine braking in congested areas. I'll buy new pads more often if it prevents the guy from running in to me because he didn't see any brake lights...
Just sayin'
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Originally Posted by 40Xshooter
Do any of you worry about the guy behind you NOT noticing you're stopping when you don't apply your brakes?
I ALWAYS tap my brakes when I start to slow down. Mostly to kick off the cruise control but even if I don't have it set I still tap my brakes. That is to signal the person behind me something is occurring ahead of them. I don't wait to see if they notice my speed change, I do it to notify them of my speed change. It's a safety thing that the MSF instructor drilled into us when I took the course some years ago.
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Originally Posted by Bob Denman
If you keep your "Situational Awareness" level at about Def-Con 2 at all times: it still can't prevent the "Driving Zombie Horde" from mowing you down, if they choose to.
But it'll sure help!
Don't rely on Hardware to solve the defensive driving puzzles that you encounter.
Use your senses to position yourself properly in the lane, maintain safe following distances, and always be looking for an escape route!
Its nothing to do with situational awareness or defensive driving or lane position, its the fact that if you are slowing down with engine braking alone then the driver behind doesn't gat a brake light warning and could run into the back of you
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It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping aware of what is happening around you...
If the guy in your mirror isn't paying attention: no brakelight will save you!
You'd better have a workable "Plan-B" on the chalkboard!
Last edited by Bob Denman; 07-29-2017 at 12:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by 40Xshooter
Could you explain a "Gear Brake"?
Hi, I did a search online and it is a system that measures deceleration during engine braking and puts your brake light on as a warning to drivers behind you. Some are adjustable and some have an additional light as well
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Active Member
To Peteoz... Thank YOU for your comment re thread start, and you're very welcome. Sorry for delay in acknowledging. I have been out running the roads in my cage - 3,200 km (2,000 mi) in 55 hours, through parts of one Province and 7 States. Pretty whipped, but back home safely. Picked up a new (to me) F4 windshield from Don Frank along the way. Many thanks to F4 for the great buy, and for being up and open early morning; also for sharing a lot of good advice. I'll be looking at one of your son's new Ultimate seats for the F3L when I get to FL in the fall. Thanks also to all who exchanged thoughts/opinions on this thread. I'm just back to serious biking after 35-year absence; trying to pick up helpful hints and good guidance from others' experience that I lack. Reading thru Forum threads has been quite helpful; sometimes even frightening, which may not be so bad because it's a great reminder to stay alert and ride defensively at all times. Cheers.
[SIGPIC]
2017 F3 Ltd. Intense Red Pearl/Metallic Black topside
2017 F3Limited , lowered brake pedal Intense Red Pearl w. Metallic Black topside
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No hand brake lever = Safety issue?
This thread just got me thinking and here's "my two cents" on Spyder brake setup.....
The reality that Spyder does not have a hand brake actually can IMO become a safety issue, particularly at night. And here's why:
After years of fairly aggressive street/sport bike driving, I really miss being able to quickly toggle/flash the brakes (without applying them) using the hand lever. It's all in the flash! I used to quickly toggle to lever to alert drivers behind me and catch their attention to an upcoming slowdown/stop/road hazard etc. (You really can't do this with the foot brake, as legs don't have the speed/dexterity to use it/quickly flash it in the same way. (Not to mention how toggling brakes might effect nanny etc.) Thinking that some kind of "gizmo" designed for the OEM brake assembly might be a great idea/accessory. (To make it pulse several times before holding constant.)
Anything like that available?
Last edited by TRLBLZR1; 08-01-2017 at 07:18 AM.
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Active Member
Originally Posted by TRLBLZR1
This thread just got me thinking and here's "my two cents" on Spyder brake setup.....
The reality that Spyder does not have a hand brake actually can IMO become a safety issue, particularly at night. And here's why:
After years of fairly aggressive street/sport bike driving, I really miss being able to quickly toggle/flash the brakes (without applying them) using the hand lever. It's all in the flash! I used to quickly toggle to lever to alert drivers behind me and catch their attention to an upcoming slowdown/stop/road hazard etc. (You really can't do this with the foot brake, as legs don't have the speed/dexterity to use it/quickly flash it in the same way. (Not to mention how toggling brakes might effect nanny etc.) Thinking that some kind of "gizmo" designed for the OEM brake assembly might be a great idea/accessory. (To make it pulse several times before holding constant.)
Anything like that available?
Yes, there is. Earlier in this thread Old Prof mentioned "Gear Brake", a system that detects when your bike slows down and automatically flashes your brake light. Just note that the specs say "compatible with 07-14 ST and RT, but not compatible with RS". I asked, but was informed, regrettably, that this system is NOT compatible with the F3, but I sure do like the product idea.
See: https://gearbrake.com/products/gearbrake-smart-brake-light-module?variant=15412515971
Last edited by bushrat; 08-01-2017 at 09:09 AM.
[SIGPIC]
2017 F3 Ltd. Intense Red Pearl/Metallic Black topside
2017 F3Limited , lowered brake pedal Intense Red Pearl w. Metallic Black topside
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Very Active Member
I use engine braking on a downhill if the cruise control isn't holding me back at the set speed. But for regular stops I brake and let the SE6 do it's job. Usually it's so smooth I never even notice the downshift taking place. Most of the time I find if I kick the cruise out well ahead of the stop sign or light the bike slows down quite well without braking or downshifting. At those times I do tap my brakes to signal to a driver behind me I am slowing down. I have a brake light flasher so that helps get the attention of the driver behind me.
2014 Copper RTS
Tri-Axis bars, CB, BajaRon sway bar & shock adjusters, SpyderPop's Bumpskid, NBV peg brackets, LED headlights and modulator, Wolo trumpet air horns, trailer hitch, custom trailer harness, high mount turn signals, Custom Dynamics brake light, LED turn signal lights on mirrors, LED strip light for a dash light, garage door opener, LED lights in frunk, trunk, and saddlebags, RAM mounts and cradles for tablet (for GPS) and phone (for music), and Smooth Spyder belt tensioner.
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Originally Posted by BitSlayer
I ALWAYS tap my brakes when I start to slow down. Mostly to kick off the cruise control but even if I don't have it set I still tap my brakes. That is to signal the person behind me something is occurring ahead of them. I don't wait to see if they notice my speed change, I do it to notify them of my speed change. It's a safety thing that the MSF instructor drilled into us when I took the course some years ago.
Best reasoning for a hand brake on a Spyder. Much faster & more natural/easier IMO to quickly tap a hand brake. That's what instinctively I kept trying to do the first week or so on a Spyder: "Two finger tap-flash on a brake handle that wasn't there.
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Very Active Member
I engine brake about 80% of the time having drove 2 wheelers for 50 years before switching to a Spyder.
Engine braking Never Effected any two wheeler I ever had and IS recommended and it WILL NOT effect your Spyder.
Notice I used the term ENGINE BRAKING, since downshifting is a common misnomer.
AJ
Originally Posted by bushrat
Have been reading many other posts with suggestions about 'best' shifting practices to be followed. As a new owner of a 2017 F3L, I have been trying to 'learn' where my ryde feels best when slowing up. My background has been several sports cars over time, and a 250 Suzuki 'Hustler' 35 years ago, where manual downshifting and keeping revs up (moderately) was a long-standing habit. My 2017 F3L SE6 can do all the necessary downshifting by itself and, at first, I let it do its own thing. However, as I become more accustomed to it, and with my riding becoming faster as the miles progress, I seem to sense that the automatic downshifting takes place later and slower than I would instinctively do manually. The old sports car debate used to be - which do you want to wear out first: your clutch or your brakes? Aggressive down-shifters would gamble on their clutch; others just braked harder and more often.
My point with my new F3 is: left to myself, I'm inclined to approach my stops and slow-downs by twitching my left index finger and run down through the gears more so than by braking. So far, it works very smoothly, my brake pedal only comes into play very late, and by then I'm already down to 3rd or 2nd, without waiting for the computer. Usually, though, I let the computer do the final downshift to 1st. I find the computer-guided 'slows' to be rather late, and more jerky, especially that last downshift or two. Looking for experienced commentary on my technique; maybe I'll still have original brakes long after doing work on clutch or auto-shift paddle? Critical advice welcome; my feelings won't be hurt. I'm trying to learn from your experiences.
2014 RT-S
Akrapovic Exhaust & Cat Bypass
Bajaron Sway Bar w/links / Sena SM-10/Garmin 660
Comfort Seat w Adjustable Backrest
Decals by Purple Harley / Magic Strobe
Kuryakyn Black Widow Pegs Rivco Highway Brackets
Rivco Trunk Mounted Double Flag Holder
FOBO / Spyder Cuff / XM Radio w MC Antenna
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Very Active Member
Did you install one in your car too?
AJ
Originally Posted by TRLBLZR1
Best reasoning for a hand brake on a Spyder. Much faster & more natural/easier IMO to quickly tap a hand brake. That's what instinctively I kept trying to do the first week or so on a Spyder: "Two finger tap-flash on a brake handle that wasn't there.
2014 RT-S
Akrapovic Exhaust & Cat Bypass
Bajaron Sway Bar w/links / Sena SM-10/Garmin 660
Comfort Seat w Adjustable Backrest
Decals by Purple Harley / Magic Strobe
Kuryakyn Black Widow Pegs Rivco Highway Brackets
Rivco Trunk Mounted Double Flag Holder
FOBO / Spyder Cuff / XM Radio w MC Antenna
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Very Active Member
I am also one of "those" who like to give the drivers behind me a flash from the brake light, to let them know of my intentions to slow down.
Most of the time on the highway--disconnecting the cruise control suffices to send the signal. I usually tap the brake pedal twice--just to hopefully get the message across. In town, I have had several close calls--when cell phone users were not paying attention. It is scary when they run up on your back end.
I do not consider the "missing" handlebar brake lever to be a safety issue on the . You just have to get used to the fact that it operates different from the two wheeler way.
I have one of each--and so far--keep which one I am driving in mind--therefore--have not reached for the "phantom" clutch or brake lever on the Spyder. I do have to think about the kickstand again. So far, so good.
Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2020 F3 Limited: SOLD BOTH LIMITEDS in October of 2023.
Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium) 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow)
MY FINAL TALLY: 7 Spyders, 15 years, 205,500 miles
IT HAS BEEN A LONG, WONDERFUL, AND FUN RIDE.
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Active Member
For those who have been following this "engine braking" thread I started, primarily dealing with mechanical questions, part of my real concern throughout has been the associated risk of not flashing brake lights as a warning to following vehicles while concentrating on down-shifting. That issue got discussed in another thread:
Design help for additional brake warning light...please!!
Both in this thread and the other, there has been information/discussion on the possibility of adding a deceleration-activated brake light system which would flash independently of the regular brake light, or at least not require tapping the brake pedal. Several product options were mentioned. After looking them over (Gear Brake, Vololights, Volomod, Admore Smart Brake Light, Ohmics) and checking with the respective manufacturers with regard to their compatibility with my 2017 F3L, I decided to order myself an Admore. Boy, were they ever quick on delivery! I am going to try installing shortly, and will happily report back with an operational review. I decided, in the interest of additional safety, that anything I could add to the back end that would flash and light up my presence in the face of following drivers would be worth it. I did try looking to see whether any SL sponsor handled something similar, but couldn't find, so went directly to the maker, which has offices both in Canada and the US.
Last edited by bushrat; 08-20-2017 at 11:21 AM.
[SIGPIC]
2017 F3 Ltd. Intense Red Pearl/Metallic Black topside
2017 F3Limited , lowered brake pedal Intense Red Pearl w. Metallic Black topside
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Originally Posted by bushrat
For those who have been following this "engine braking" thread I started, primarily dealing with mechanical questions, part of my real concern throughout has been the associated risk of not flashing brake lights as a warning to following vehicles while concentrating on down-shifting. That issue got discussed in another thread:
Design help for additional brake warning light...please!!
Both in this thread and the other, there has been information/discussion on the possibility of adding a deceleration-activated brake light system which would flash independently of the regular brake light, or at least not require tapping the brake pedal. Several product options were mentioned. After looking them over (Gear Brake, Vololights, Volomod, Admore Smart Brake Light) and checking with the respective manufacturers with regard to their compatibility with my 2017 F3L, I decided to order myself an Admore. Boy, were they ever quick on delivery! I am going to try installing shortly, and will happily report back with an operational review. I decided, in the interest of additional safety, that anything I could add to the back end that would flash and light up my presence in the face of following drivers would be worth it. I did try looking to see whether any SL sponsor handled something similar, but couldn't find, so went directly to the maker, which has offices both in Canada and the US.
Yes - Please keep us posted on how your installation went and on how well the Admore system works for you!
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Do you have a link for Admore?
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Active Member
This discussion led me to also look at installing an accelerometer type braking system. I decided on the Gear Brake for my RT-S. installation was easy peasy since I bought their plug and play harness. I don't think it even took 30 minutes to do. It works as advertised and I feel it certainly adds a bit of safety.
http://www.gearbrake.com
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braking
I am on my second Spyder - both were SE6's. When riding in twisties or whatever I have found that an aggressive tap on the brakes will downshift every time.
That gives the flash and also the downshift - problem solved.
Have a nice day,
Tip
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Active Member
Originally Posted by Bob Denman
Do you have a link for Admore?
Bob:
Here it is: https://www.admorelighting.com/produ...ration-safety/
I believe you can find it on Revzilla and Amazon, probably eBay, but company sells and is extremely fast on shipping.
and here is another link to a similar product: http://www.ohmics.com/projects/
Last edited by bushrat; 08-20-2017 at 01:12 PM.
[SIGPIC]
2017 F3 Ltd. Intense Red Pearl/Metallic Black topside
2017 F3Limited , lowered brake pedal Intense Red Pearl w. Metallic Black topside
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