Non laser alignment

[iceworm]

Drove over to Motorsports of NM, Santa Teresa. Talked to the service manager. They were gracious, spent plenty of time talking to me. They're using straight edges, square, measuring tape. The parent store is in Las Cruzes. They have the same equipment.

Q: SM says they set the toe to 1mm when they setup the new bikes. I didn't ask if that was 1mm each side or total. As I understand, the Brp spec of 0-.5mm is each side, giving 1mm total. The after market alignment max spec of 3mm would give 6mm total, about 1/4" (.243 actually). So, the specs discussed, 1.5mm - 3mm, that is each side, isn't it? From what I have read that would make the most sense. Just want to check my reasoning.

They want 1hr labor to do the alignment - $95, and $70 to install a sway bar. They want to do both at the same time - reasonable. I'd like to do one at a time and see what the change is for each.

So, I'm thinking, I'll get the alignment done, drive a bit, and then do the sway bar myself.

Won't start until after the first of the year. Got somebody that wants to pay me for a couple of weeks - that first

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

.....After 7 years and three Spyders IMHO they are full of BS. Those numbers leave a lot of leeway in the alignment and might be good for a FARM tractor........The only alignment worth money is the ROLO/OUTLAW lazer system which costs about $ 125.00 and is worth every penny......Also the putting the Sway Bar on should have NO effect on the alignment ....if it does they did it wrong.......good luck ....stay here you will learn tons of things .......Mike

[Highwayman2013]

Hope this helps:http://www.spydercomfort.com/dealerstx.htm

[jtoro1]

Doing it the old way is a waste of money ,I had it done and then I had it laser aligned what a difference

[JayBros]

What they've said! Just stop and think about it, if laser measuring systems weren't a quantum leap over linear ruler and pencil methods scads of folks who must do things right with the highest possible degree of accuracy would not spend the bucks necessary to buy the equipment. Make the dealership an offer, have them do the alignment their way at their price, then take a ride over to Joe and Ann Meyer and have them do a laser alignment. If the dealership's alignment is not as accurate as the Meyers' Rolo alignment, the dealership refunds double the price of their job.

[bscrive]

The laser alignment is the only way to go.

Contact someone close to you to get one or give Joe and Anne a call at Squared Away. They are in Las Vegas, but they travel around to different shows to do alignments. They may be coming to a place near you.

[BajaRon]

Drove over to Motorsports of NM, Santa Teresa. Talked to the service manager. They were gracious, spent plenty of time talking to me. They're using straight edges, square, measuring tape. The parent store is in Las Cruzes. They have the same equipment.

Q: SM says they set the toe to 1mm when they setup the new bikes. I didn't ask if that was 1mm each side or total. As I understand, the Brp spec of 0-.5mm is each side, giving 1mm total. The after market alignment max spec of 3mm would give 6mm total, about 1/4" (.243 actually). So, the specs discussed, 1.5mm - 3mm, that is each side, isn't it? From what I have read that would make the most sense. Just want to check my reasoning.

They want 1hr labor to do the alignment - $95, and $70 to install a sway bar. They want to do both at the same time - reasonable. I'd like to do one at a time and see what the change is for each.

So, I'm thinking, I'll get the alignment done, drive a bit, and then do the sway bar myself.

Won't start until after the first of the year. Got somebody that wants to pay me for a couple of weeks - that first

As stated by others. Absolute waste of time and money. You're lucky if they don't make the alignment worse using this method. It's like doing surgery with stone knives or navigation using star charts. There is no way they can even come close to doing a decent job. DON'T DO IT!

[Chupaca]

Find the best laser alignment location or check with Ann and Joe from Squared Away (sponors). They travel around helping out with these alignments. The sway bar is totally separate but they also do that work as well. Good luck with the new year with the better riding ryde.....

[jaherbst]

​Lazer Alignment will be the best $125 dollars you will ever spend on your Spyder period. Your enjoyment will increase threefold in driving after this. Ride Now Sports in Tucson on 22nd st. has a Lazer Alignment now but only let Scott do the work. This should be the closest to you. Squared away is the best but that is another 400 miles. For the past two years they have done LA's at my hanger here in Tucson but do not know if they plan another "Lazer Alignment Party " here. They are always welcome to use my facilities anytime.

Jack

[iceworm]

Guys and girls-
I really appreciate all the responses. I especially liked "suitable for a farm tractor", "similar to using flint knifes for surgery", and "like using star charts for navigation".

Yes, I would use a vendor with laser alignment equipment, if they were available. No, $50 doesn't matter much to me either way. Highwayman, thank you for your response, Yes I am aware of the site showing shops using "Patented True Laser Track Alignment System".

In any case, I asked for some specific information on a particular point I am not absolutely clear on. I am pretty sure I know, but would like to verify. If no one knows, I'm fine with that - I'll figure it out. If someone does and wishes to share that would be gracious.

[Brian Kay]

OK, I called one of the local dealers to price the Outlaw Laser Alignment and they quoted me $185 to do it!!! Just sounds "Extreme"ly high compared to what I've been reading and seeing on SL's.

Should I do it?

Next, the cost to install the Baja Ron sway bar would be $195 or 1.5-hours of time (based on the tech). That's $130/hour for labor...that too sounds high.

Should I just work on figuring out a way to elevate/lift the spyder and install it myself?

[GPrice]

OK, I called one of the local dealers to price the Outlaw Laser Alignment and they quoted me $185 to do it!!! Just sounds "Extreme"ly high compared to what I've been reading and seeing on SL's.

Should I do it?

Next, the cost to install the Baja Ron sway bar would be $195 or 1.5-hours of time (based on the tech). That's $130/hour for labor...that too sounds high.

Should I just work on figuring out a way to elevate/lift the spyder and install it myself?

Call extreme propulsion in cartersville 770-386-9439

[ingramwc]

I paid $150 for the Laser Alignment and $90 for the Sway Bar and Heim Links install, both actually took less than 1 hour each. These were done at separate times.
Money well spent!!!!!

[iceworm]

One point I didn't cover, concerning the sway bar. All the following is just my opinion.
Spyder steering geometry is not different than that used in autos for the last 60+ years. There are no special physics involved.

Yes, adding the aftermarket sway bar will not change the STATIC alignment.

However, alignment changes with suppension deflection. Acceleration tends to toe out. Loading affects toe. Body roll affects toe. Bump steer affects toe.

Using a phrase from spydercomfort's page, I am working to mitigate "wandering or darting". And, of course, suspension deflection control as well as static alignment are the important issues.

One of the things I'm looking at doing is showing up for the static alignment with 7ea - 60 lb sandbags. I want the suppension set up for 2up, 20 lbs gear. If the vendor doesn't mind taking the time, I'd like to see the changes in static alignment due to loading. There is one guy (Australia) that says it can. I like his site. He has about the best information so far.

[Bob Denman]

Non-Laser Alignments???

[iceworm]

OK, I called one of the local dealers to price the Outlaw Laser Alignment and they quoted me $185 to do it!!! Just sounds "Extreme"ly high compared to what I've been reading and seeing on SL's.

Should I do it?

Next, the cost to install the Baja Ron sway bar would be $195 or 1.5-hours of time (based on the tech). That's $130/hour for labor...that too sounds high.

Should I just work on figuring out a way to elevate/lift the spyder and install it myself?

Personal opinion:
If I thought they did good work, and I had to drive more than an hour to shave $100, I'd pay the money. And it is done.

However, just for my own education I want to do them one at a time and see the difference in the handling. My current plan is to get the alignment done, drive a bit. Then install the sway bar my self.

[iceworm]

Guys

I did ask a specific question:

Q: SM says they set the toe to 1mm when they setup the new bikes. I didn't ask if that was 1mm each side or total. As I understand, the Brp spec of 0-.5mm is each side, giving 1mm total. The after market alignment max spec of 3mm would give 6mm total, about 1/4" (.243 actually). So, the specs discussed, 1.5mm - 3mm, that is each side, isn't it? From what I have read that would make the most sense. Just want to check my reasoning.

As I said, if no one knows I'm okay. I'll figure it out. However if you do know and would share, that would be gracious.

Endless repetition of BAD IDEA doesn't answer what I'm asking.

[MouthPiece]

I personally think the best person to ask is Lamont.

Chris

[jcthorne]

To answer your specific question, the recommended laser alignment spec is 1.25 inches over 150" measuring distance. This is 0.125 across the 15" wheel. Approx 3mm total toe. More for the weight you are expecting to carry (400+ lbs).

Trouble with the yardsticks and pencil method is trying to measure fractions of a mm. Just not going to happen with any accuracy nor is it properly referenced to the rear wheel / steering center.

[Bob Denman]

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Guys and girls-
I really appreciate all the responses. I especially liked "suitable for a farm tractor", "similar to using flint knifes for surgery", and "like using star charts for navigation".

Yes, I would use a vendor with laser alignment equipment, if they were available. No, $50 doesn't matter much to me either way. Highwayman, thank you for your response, Yes I am aware of the site showing shops using "Patented True Laser Track Alignment System".

In any case, I asked for some specific information on a particular point I am not absolutely clear on. I am pretty sure I know, but would like to verify. If no one knows, I'm fine with that - I'll figure it out. If someone does and wishes to share that would be gracious.

....WOW, you are one savvy Lady ...so I know you would appreciate this ...I made some custom brackets for my 2014 RT that changed the angle of the front shocks 16 degree's which increased the firmness by 18%....the ground clearance is up by only 3/16 inch....It now handles much better and the springs still have Full compliance ...............It doesn't handle at all like a " farm tractor " .......Mike

[iceworm]

To answer your specific question, the recommended laser alignment spec is 1.25 inches over 150" measuring distance. This is 0.125 across the 15" wheel. Approx 3mm total toe. More for the weight you are expecting to carry (400+ lbs).

Trouble with the yardsticks and pencil method is trying to measure fractions of a mm. Just not going to happen with any accuracy nor is it properly referenced to the rear wheel / steering center.

Bless you. You're actually addressing my question The first in 10+ posts.

The phrasing you are using is exactly what has me stalled. Hopefully you can rephrase and help me out.

"This is 0.125" across the 15" wheel. Approx 3mm total toe." It is the word "total" that stalls me

Yes, 0.125" is very close to 3mm. So, if the toe is set to 3mm, and one were to accurately measure between the wheels, front and back, one would see a difference of 6mm or 3mm?

I'm thinking, if the toe is 3mm, that means each wheel is toed in 3mm as measured to the vehicle centerline. So between the wheels, front to back, one would see a difference of 6mm.

Is this correct?

Note to the bad idea posters:
No, I'm not planning on using two yard sticks. No, I'm not planning on using a 5' internal mike. I'm looking for a definition.

[jaherbst]

Too much "nutzies and boltzies" here! Get the thing Lazer Aligned and get on with your life. Your a typical engineer Carl. And Annette you look "just marvelous" on that Spyder. Life is to short to start worrying about mm. Call Ann and Joe.

Jack

[iceworm]

Too much "nutzies and boltzies" here! Get the thing Lazer Aligned and get on with your life. Your a typical engineer Carl. And Annette you look "just marvelous" on that Spyder. Life is to short to start working about mm. Call Ann and Joe.

Jack

Each sentence in order:
possibly, and yes I am a Nutz and Balts kind of a guy
as soon as available
yes, and a good one, automotive steering design not my speciality
yes I agree. You obviously have good taste
not worried, just an inquiring mind
next time I think they are within a couple a hundred miles, I likely will

tkx

carl

[fjray]

Many years ago when I was in the front end biz the toe in was generally 1/8 inch total for bias ply tires and usually 0 toe in for radials. When I got the spyder it was very obvious that the dealer had not checked it like I asked so when I got it home I fabricated a fixture to measure and set the toe in. I checked it with the steering set straight ahead and I set it to 1/8 inch or .125 total toe in and it handles just fine with no abnormal tire wear.
I'm not saying the laser isn't a good way to go but the measurement is the same no matter what you use to measure it. Using the rear wheel for reference is fine until the rear wheel position is changed and I don't want to buy an alignment every time the rear wheel is moved.
All this being said I am going to get the laser job in the spring just to see how it compares with my manual method.