DESS Key code again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deanna777]

Just color me LUCKY (so far)

AJ

AJ, I hope that you don't get the D.E.S.S. code, if you do take a picture, and post on this thread. I am only trying to help. Deanna

[PaladinLV]

AJ, I hope that you don't get the D.E.S.S. code, if you do take a picture, and post on this thread. I am only trying to help. Deanna

Trying? Hell you ARE helping

AJ

[Trbayth]

AJ, From day 1 with my 2014RTS-SE6 Cognac I have always shut my down in Neutral. Deanna

Me too. Although I only had the DESS code pop up once and that was on a 2014 ST, not at RT.

[pitzerwm]

Meeting a new Spyder rider this weekend we were talking about a lot of things and the DESS thing. He has a 15 and had had the DESS thing once, but was able to get past it. He has Lamont's IPS and he switched his keys and hasn't has an issue since. His question was "what if the key's signal is weaker than it should be"?

Seems in Deanne's case they replaced the keys, but it still came back. In light of the fact most of agree BRP uses the cheapest parts, maybe all of the keys are on the margin. There should be a way to measure whatever it sends out.

Just a thought.

[JerryB]

Hi Bill,

Re: There should be a way to measure whatever it sends out.

I am no electrical/electronic expert, but I believe that the key(s) to Spyder do not have batteries in them. If mine do, I'll be d***** on how I would replace them.

That leads me to believe that they do not send out anything. To 'send out' something would require an energy source, i.e., a battery.

My new 2015 car key(s) have batteries but they are only to remotely lock/unlock the doors.

My car keys, which have the keyless start system, are a RF system. The car sends out the RF signal and it ( somehow ) bounces back without requiring any energy.

Anyone else with a thought on this?

Jerry Baumchen

PS) And I might be so wrong on this that I haven't seen the ball since the kickoff.

[pitzerwm]

I'm sure that you are right but something sends something to somewhere, if its built right on the edge, with any heat or cold it will fail. I'm glad that for now BRP has to pay & throw money at the problem making no points in the "we build a great machine" category.

Hi Bill,

Re: There should be a way to measure whatever it sends out.

I am no electrical/electronic expert, but I believe that the key(s) to Spyder do not have batteries in them. If mine do, I'll be d***** on how I would replace them.

That leads me to believe that they do not send out anything. To 'send out' something would require an energy source, i.e., a battery.

My new 2015 car key(s) have batteries but they are only to remotely lock/unlock the doors.

My car keys, which have the keyless start system, are a RF system. The car sends out the RF signal and it ( somehow ) bounces back without requiring any energy.

Anyone else with a thought on this?

Jerry Baumchen

PS) And I might be so wrong on this that I haven't seen the ball since the kickoff.

[Deanna777]

Me too. Although I only had the DESS code pop up once and that was on a 2014 ST, not at RT.

If you get the D.E.S.S. key code take a picture and show it to your can-am dealer. Also let them know it has been happening, if they don't believe you. Also, post on this thread if you get the D.E.S.S. key code. Deanna

[Deanna777]

Meeting a new Spyder rider this weekend we were talking about a lot of things and the DESS thing. He has a 15 and had had the DESS thing once, but was able to get past it. He has Lamont's IPS and he switched his keys and hasn't has an issue since. His question was "what if the key's signal is weaker than it should be"?

Seems in Deanne's case they replaced the keys, but it still came back. In light of the fact most of agree BRP uses the cheapest parts, maybe all of the keys are on the margin. There should be a way to measure whatever it sends out.

Just a thought.

Bill, The first time that I got the D.E.S.S. key code my dealership replaced the D.E.S.S. module and reprogramed the keys, the second time that I got the D.E.S.S. key code, they replaced the D.E.S.S module, ignition switch, and changed the back lock on the trunk, gave me a new lock ( for a trailer) reshaped the keys. Deanna

[Bob Denman]

Hi Jerry,
No batteries in the key; just the chips...
From what I understand about how the DESS works (Which is actually VERY little...); the DESS module sends out a signal to "read" the info that's held in the chip that's in your key... Whatever info it picks up, gets sent back into the computer for verification...
The key doesn't transmit anything; it just has to be able to be read by the system.

[JerryB]

Hi Bob,

Re: The key doesn't transmit anything

I graduated with the class of '71 with a degree in Mech Engr, so it has been a long time ago. Also, I was NOT the brightest person in my class.

However, I do know that to transmit/send requires a power source in some form. That is not up for discussion.

As for Spyder keys, consider a LEO's radar gun. The gun transmits but your car does not. So how does he know how fast you are going? It is the bounce back; his radar gun is taking a reading.

I do not know a lot about RF systems but I do know that my local library, which has RF 'devices' imbedded/glued in the books, uses it when I checkout a book or turn one in. Those books do not contain any batteries; but they do have a 'device' that the RF reader detects.

While I may be wrong, I think this might be how our keys work.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I recently ordered a 2nd backup key for my Spyder. The key supplied was a Aprilia-type key. When I got it, it would not work. So the company sent me a new chip only, to install myself. That key works great now. But that chip did not have a battery.

[PaladinLV]

Jerry,

I'm an RF guy or was from 1967 - 2004.
Since I'm not about to cut open my key, my best guess is it uses a form of Passive Integrated Technology, the same tech as used in Dog/Cat microchips.
If BRP is in fact using a form of PIT the key DOES and MUST transmit, obtaining it's power inductively from the RF sent out by the Spyder.
Check out Passive RFID on the net and it should give you the technical aspects of how it works.

AJ

Hi Bob,

Re: The key doesn't transmit anything

I graduated with the class of '71 with a degree in Mech Engr, so it has been a long time ago. Also, I was NOT the brightest person in my class.

However, I do know that to transmit/send requires a power source in some form. That is not up for discussion.

As for Spyder keys, consider a LEO's radar gun. The gun transmits but your car does not. So how does he know how fast you are going? It is the bounce back; his radar gun is taking a reading.

I do not know a lot about RF systems but I do know that my local library, which has RF 'devices' imbedded/glued in the books, uses it when I checkout a book or turn one in. Those books do not contain any batteries; but they do have a 'device' that the RF reader detects.

While I may be wrong, I think this might be how our keys work.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) I recently ordered a 2nd backup key for my Spyder. The key supplied was a Aprilia-type key. When I got it, it would not work. So the company sent me a new chip only, to install myself. That key works great now. But that chip did not have a battery.

[JerryB]

Hi AJ,

Re: Check out Passive RFID on the net and it should give you the technical aspects of how it works.

Thanks; I will. Always willing to learn something new; especially if it is technical.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Re: obtaining it's power inductively from the RF sent out by the Spyder

That is very interesting; more reading to do.

[PaladinLV]

Jerry,
One of the theories, from BRP is the problem is caused by the key being saturated with too much RF.

I told people to carry a strip of aluminum foil with them just in case BRP is correct, they could wrap the key.

Most thought I was joking - oh well
But with those units that "clear" after an unspecified amount of time and then do not reappear for weeks, months, or ever, they might just be onto to something.

But at this point, BRP obviously doesn't know nor have they a clue. So they are going the old tried and true USN FBM troubleshooting. Replace all the likely components; key, DESS, and ignition switch. LOL

AJ

Hi AJ,

Re: Check out Passive RFID on the net and it should give you the technical aspects of how it works.

Thanks; I will. Always willing to learn something new; especially if it is technical.

Jerry Baumchen

PS) Re: obtaining it's power inductively from the RF sent out by the Spyder

That is very interesting; more reading to do.

[Deanna777]

Me too. Although I only had the DESS code pop up once and that was on a 2014 ST, not at RT.

Do you know if the D.E.S.S issue has been happening to all 2014 Spyder models?

Deanna

[Trbayth]

Do you know if the D.E.S.S issue has been happening to all 2014 Spyder models?

Deanna

I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of all the posts throughout SL but it does seem that it's not something that's only happening to RT's. I don't remember seeing anyone specifically mention it was happening on their 2013 or older.

[Deanna777]

I haven't done an exhaustive analysis of all the posts throughout SL but it does seem that it's not something that's only happening to RT's. I don't remember seeing anyone specifically mention it was happening on their 2013 or older.

I had a 2012 RTS-SE5 and I did not get the D.E.S.S.S error code. Very interesting info. If it is only happening on with the 2014 RTS & 2015 RTS models, I wonder if it is happening with the F3's?

Deanna

[KJWEB]

Here's a thought....Watch out! I have LaMonster's ISP Key Cover. I put it on what I called the key 1. Within a week I got the D.E.S.S. error code. I took the ISP cover off, and key 1 would work. I put the cover back on key 1 and I would get the error. I took pictures of the error so I could show it to the dealer for my 3,000 service and to get it recorded via a dealer. I never tried to put the ISP key cover on key 2, Until After the 3,000 service, I put the ISP key cover on the key 2. That has been over a month ago and added a 1,000 miles with NO error. I have talked this over with a few folks and the question is: Are some of the key's chips emitting a weak signal causing the D.E.S.S. error?

[PaladinLV]

Here's a thought....Watch out! I have LaMonster's ISP Key Cover. I put it on what I called the key 1. Within a week I got the D.E.S.S. error code. I took the ISP cover off, and key 1 would work. I put the cover back on key 1 and I would get the error. I took pictures of the error so I could show it to the dealer for my 3,000 service and to get it recorded via a dealer. I never tried to put the ISP key cover on key 2, Until After the 3,000 service, I put the ISP key cover on the key 2. That has been over a month ago and added a 1,000 miles with NO error. I have talked this over with a few folks and the question is: Are some of the key's chips emitting a weak signal causing the D.E.S.S. error?

The amount of signal sent by the key is directly proportional to the amount of energy it receives from the module.
See Post #167

AJ

[KJWEB]

The amount of signal sent by the key is directly proportional to the amount of energy it receives from the module.
See Post #167

AJ

Any other ideas why key 1 doesn't work in the ISP cover and key 2 does?

[PaladinLV]

Any other ideas why key 1 doesn't work in the ISP cover and key 2 does?

Could be something as little as the placement of the microchip not being in the same position; or the chip or one of it's components in #1 is on the outside limits of tolerance, or the covering of #1 is a little thicker.

The problem is, I do not believe BRP is staffed to tear down the engineering to get to the route of the problem. If they were, in a case like yours, they would ask for the return of the two keys so a comparison could be made and that is why when the problem occurs they have the dealership replace the DESS module, ignition switch AND keys. They are at the MERCY of the subcontractor.

The start of the process would be WHAT did we (meaning BRP) change in 2014 from 2013 and earlier. Once you know "what and why" the change was made, it becomes a more simple process to determine the POSSIBLE cause. Like the old adage goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

AJ

[Trbayth]

The start of the process would be WHAT did we (meaning BRP) change in 2014 from 2013 and earlier. Once you know "what and why" the change was made, it becomes a more simple process to determine the POSSIBLE cause. Like the old adage goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
AJ

In other threads it's been mentioned that the division of responsibilities changed. Prior to 2014, the DESS module read the chip and told the ECM "yup, you're good to go" or "no way man." Starting in 2014, the DESS module just sends the code from the chip to the ECM and the ECM makes the decision to enable start or not.

[Deanna777]

Could be something as little as the placement of the microchip not being in the same position; or the chip or one of it's components in #1 is on the outside limits of tolerance, or the covering of #1 is a little thicker.

The problem is, I do not believe BRP is staffed to tear down the engineering to get to the route of the problem. If they were, in a case like yours, they would ask for the return of the two keys so a comparison could be made and that is why when the problem occurs they have the dealership replace the DESS module, ignition switch AND keys. They are at the MERCY of the subcontractor.

The start of the process would be WHAT did we (meaning BRP) change in 2014 from 2013 and earlier. Once you know "what and why" the change was made, it becomes a more simple process to determine the POSSIBLE cause. Like the old adage goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

AJ

AJ, the 2nd time I had my D.E.S.S. key code, my dealership reshaped the keys, changed the D.E.S.S. module, ignition switch.

Last month my dealership made the changes. I went to SQ last week and did not get the D.E.S.S. error. I am glad that I did not, if I did get the D.E.S.S. I would have taken it a Local Can-Am dealership (Artic Adventures) So far, I have not had the D.E.S.S. error, if I do get the D.E.S.S. error I will post on this thread (mine) Deanna

[roddyhelen]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1442768669.081057.jpg

Just had this happen to my 2015 RT-S

Please help


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[Deanna777]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1442768669.081057.jpg

Just had this happen to my 2015 RT-S

Please help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Call your dealership and take the picture with you to your dealership. Make an appointment with your can-am dealer.

If it happens again try the other key, and if you get the D.E.S.S. key code again, take both keys with you and walk away for about 1/2 hour. The computer will reboot, it should start, if it does not start call Roadside Assistance.



Also read my( Deanna777) first thread " D.E.S.S. Key code on a 2014RTS-SE6" and the first post, then read/ see pictures of the D.E.S.S. Hope this helps, keep us posted on what you find out @ your dealership.

I had this happen on a 2014RT-SE6 cognac. Deanna

[blacklightning]

Well, I got my DESS key code error again. The first time it happened, I was able to take the battery cable loose, and reset everything. This time, I was about 250 miles from home, and it did it again. After about 5 minutes, it worked again. Guess I will be taking it in for a service soon and see what my dealer needs to do.