Time for reflection???

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Maybe it's time for a little bit of reflection on how we treat each other here on the forum. Joelthebiker picked up his marbles and went home. Deleted every one of his posts. So, were some of us a bit more harsh toward him than we ought to have been? Or did we just refuse to take him 100% at face value and it ticked him off? It's sad to see someone like him leave because it did look like he was going to be a valuable contributor. But some of us challenged him and some of his assertions. Were we unfair, or is he just too sensitive?

I spent 22 years with Uncle Sam doing quality system audits and contract provision enforcement of Federal contractors. Questioning people and their policies and practices was a big part of my job. I didn't care how high or how low in the corporate structure the person was, I was not afraid to question them. I learned two things from that experience. One, sometimes people would acknowledge there was a better way or answer, or that they were mistaken, or, if they successfully defended their position that reinforced the validity of their position. At the very least, I usually learned something new or different. The second thing I learned is that experts don't always have the answer, and sometimes they are just plain wrong. I used to have a sign that said, "QA, QA, QA. The Questioning Approach of Quality Assurance leads to the Quintessential Answer."

Questioning someone, if done in a civil fashion, is never wrong, IMO. We all can benefit from a healthy disagreeable discussion, if we are willing to have an open mind.

I try to live by the philosophy, "If a fence is going to be built between you and me, you are going to have to do the building." I'm afraid Joel built his own fence, and now does he not only not see what's on our side, but we can't see what's on his side. We're all losers.

[Peteoz]

Maybe it's time for a little bit of reflection on how we treat each other here on the forum.

Questioning someone, if done in a civil fashion, is never wrong, IMO. We all can benefit from a healthy disagreeable discussion, if we are willing to have an open mind.

I try to live by the philosophy, "If a fence is going to be built between you and me, you are going to have to do the building." I'm afraid Joel built his own fence, and now does he not only not see what's on our side, but we can't see what's on his side. We're all losers.

I agree completely, Idaho. It is just in some people's nature to reply gruffly, or use a minimum of words, or accidentally write/utter an ambiguous statement. Written English is notoriously easy to misinterpret. However, it s part and parcel of human beings, be it face to face, over the phone or on forums. If you can't accept that it will happen, you need to seek seclusion away from humanity.

Personally, I believe Joel started building his own fence through the tone of some of his posts, but wasn't prepared to accept the inevitable outcome of doing that...I also agree that he had a lot to offer, but that's life. Sometimes we need to have a good long look at ourselves and laugh...or at least take ourselves and our opinions less seriously.....

.....and I shortened your quote because you used way too many words !

Pete

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

.....and I shortened your quote because you used way too many words !

Pete

Not the first time I've been told that!

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So is it your opinion .... if someone says it OK to do something that can cause injury or a fatality to someone else -( Should you ) just keep your mouth shut , so you don't offend that person ????............. Mike

[Buckeye Bleau]

I can completely agree with most of what you are implying, with the exception that some people like to be considered without giving consideration. I do not recall the exact nature of the comments from the individual in question, but I can tell you that I have learned from being on this site that some people here seem to always have some thing negative about everything, I used to want to reach through the screen and choke them.

with patience I learned that the written word deceived me of their true intention was honorable and my judgement of them was incorrect. Do they still seem to be the same yes, but it is their method of writing and my error. They are good folks. Others like the world to be what they imagine and they are open to anything that they agree with but only what they agree with. That is wrong, but those have ruled for many and far too many years. They need to lighten up and actually give the consideration that they claim to possess.

Joe

[Peteoz]

So is it your opinion .... if someone says it OK to do something that can cause injury or a fatality to someone else - just keep your mouth shut , so you don't offend that person ????............. Mike

You know how I said some people reply "gruffly", Mike?

Seriously though, where did you find anything we said that you could interpret as "keep your mouth shut" regardless of whether it may cause injury or fatality or not? I ask this question as I reread the posts and simply can't see how that conclusion could be drawn

Pete

[irvin48]

im still learning from everyone here, no matter how its worded. maybe its a good thing we
arent face to face. i also type slow[ly?][sp]. before i even got to write down the info from
yesterday it was gone. now we are all losers. i hope i never criticise anyone . we all
are the sum of our experiences with our machines. i look forward to more help from
you folks. and please dont go rioting in the streets over a difference of opinion.
irv toms

[ThreeWheels]

I don't know what the heck you people are talking about.
DAMN.
Did I miss a good flame war ??
That's disappointing.

I will say this. Some people are WAY to invested in their cyber life. It's scary.

[Bob Denman]

Hi Mike,
Since you have once again replied in your own unique style : please let me offer an observation.
When anybody mentions an approach to an issue that you feel has just got to be "The work of the Devil" (A touch of hyperbole...); there are often at least two different ways to open a dialog:
1. Scream in CAPITAL LETTERS that they're going to be killed...
2. Mention that there are perhaps considerations that they have missed, and bring those out into the discussion.

You and I have had many long and tiresome debates over these approaches, and I do apologize for calling you out personally. . You're not the only one in here, that can be a bit... brutal on the keyboard. We can all reach that point, much sooner than we realize...
But my reason for being so blunt about it, is due to the fact that you often DO offer very useful information in here... it's valuable; but often wrapped in rhetoric that "muddies the message"
You can be 100% correct... and have your message lost in it's own presentation.
Here's my approach to typing:
I try to view the message from the other's guy's eyeballs...
It's not what I'm trying to say: it's about what I'm seeing.
Tact and diplomacy; my friend...

And Joel: I still think that your approach to the belt tensioner is a kick-butt idea!

And if this post makes no sense: somebody needs to PM me... I'm fighting through a hypoglycemic episode right now... But this seemed too important to wait!

[PapaHotel]

It appears that Joel has removed his posts, so are his tensioner ideas/plans also lost/gone?

[SteveP]

Exactly, from my view I am doing the same as you .... I enjoy the info that helps me enjoy my Spyder more but I'm not interested in head butting as entertainment or opinions on controversial non Spyder issues , still check the SL site every few days because it can be very informative

Like many, he will be lurking on SL. He may sign up under a different user name. As good as any Spyder owner may consider their machine, eventually it will act up and for the non FB user this is about the only resource for info except your dealer.

In my own corner, I realize I too am backing away from SL as others before me have also done. Not leaving, but rather holding back from posting replies simply leaving it to others, whether the replies are correct, incorrect or just a worthless waste of bandwidth. If I notice something hazardously incorrect, then, when possible I will reply and allow the person to decide what they prefer to grasp as best and determine their own fate.

Still a very good website, people shall come and people shall go. I do notice that some of the Spyder riders I meet face to face, myself included, use the ignore selection to better enjoy SL. It is a very worthy tool within the toolbox.

[Bob Denman]

Thanks Bob. I just saw a video today of Doc Humphreys bracket for the tensioner and his is similar to mine. He will be offering his for sale later this week. Both designs work, but I will not be offering mine for sale, just the info about how to make one for yourself. It really is easy.

Thanks for the info about Doc's approach: I was unaware that he also had a plan...

It appears that Joel has removed his posts, so are his tensioner ideas/plans also lost/gone?

He's left us with another avenue to explore (See above...)

[Dgdecker]

Maybe it's time for a little bit of reflection on how we treat each other here on the forum. Joelthebiker picked up his marbles and went home. Deleted every one of his posts. So, were some of us a bit more harsh toward him than we ought to have been? Or did we just refuse to take him 100% at face value and it ticked him off? It's sad to see someone like him leave because it did look like he was going to be a valuable contributor. But some of us challenged him and some of his assertions. Were we unfair, or is he just too sensitive?

I spent 22 years with Uncle Sam doing quality system audits and contract provision enforcement of Federal contractors. Questioning people and their policies and practices was a big part of my job. I didn't care how high or how low in the corporate structure the person was, I was not afraid to question them. I learned two things from that experience. One, sometimes people would acknowledge there was a better way or answer, or that they were mistaken, or, if they successfully defended their position that reinforced the validity of their position. At the very least, I usually learned something new or different. The second thing I learned is that experts don't always have the answer, and sometimes they are just plain wrong. I used to have a sign that said, "QA, QA, QA. The Questioning Approach of Quality Assurance leads to the Quintessential Answer."

Questioning someone, if done in a civil fashion, is never wrong, IMO. We all can benefit from a healthy disagreeable discussion, if we are willing to have an open mind.

I try to live by the philosophy, "If a fence is going to be built between you and me, you are going to have to do the building." I'm afraid Joel built his own fence, and now does he not only not see what's on our side, but we can't see what's on his side. We're all losers.

All good thoughts and ideas. There is a major difference - when you were in the gov't role you are in a buyer / seller relationship with a huge power/influence difference from the peer to peer relationships on SL. I think it's right to give feedback, style is critical.

[ndspyderlover]

Running 30 PSI in my Federal 595EVO front tires isn't going to cause harm to ANYONE, mike. But if you want to sit on this forum and be the self-called "expert" on everything, then so be it. Enjoy. You can find someone else's ideas to be jealous of and criticize. You will probably run them off this forum too. ​ITS ALL YOURS BUDDY!

why is this country getting so angry? every one seems so bitter. the election results are an example. our Dakota acsess pipeline is another example.
I think it is time to say the serenity prayer. like the song says "don't worry be happy"

[cuznjohn]

i'm lost, but that's normal

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You know how I said some people reply "gruffly", Mike?

Seriously though, where did you find anything we said that you could interpret as "keep your mouth shut" regardless of whether it may cause injury or fatality or not? I ask this question as I reread the posts and simply can't see how that conclusion could be drawn

Pete

......Did you not notice " REFLECT ON THIS " ..... My post was not directed to YOU !!!! .... and Gruff !!!! all I did was ask a question......Mike

[armyspydervet]

IMG_0346.JPG

[trikermutha]

Lets move forward and stop all the DRAMA

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for the "lower volume" font...
But this thread is about ALL topics: not just one about tires, and tire pressures.
Since that thread no longer exists; why not just let it drop?

EDIT: I mentioned earlier that we can all be guilty of "shouting" at times; I'm certainly as guilty as anyone in here.
Sometimes: (and I do mean sometimes...); it might be okay to get loud.
When somebody asks about the "security Torx" fasteners on the side of the bike: everybody wants to yell, "Stop what you're doing, and drop the wrench!" The same goes for when folks ask about the terminals under the seats of the 998 bikes...
If you can stop those mistakes from ever happening: it's a good thing!
But I'd like to offer the opinion that it's best to not resort to yelling; for most of what happens in here.

[irvin48]

Thanks for the info about Doc's approach: I was unaware that he also had a plan...


He's left us with another avenue to explore (See above...)

ok, ididnt get the info put down on joels bracket[pm?] and where is docs video and info?
am interested in seeing all to enhance my forward learning.

[irvin48]

both of these require r side panel removal.?! havnt looked at the bottom side. guess
you guys have. thank you! irv

[Warlock]

EXPERT= EX/PERT= EX =has been PERT= a drip under pressure. I hope 2017 is better. 15 and 16 so many feelings hurt, and mean works said. Sometimes you just have to suck it up buttercup.
David

[tmcquain]

You know, the other day there was a post about disabilities that couldn't be seen. I made a couple of comments and then thanked all the Service members and LEO, FIRE, EMS personal that had been injured. Well someone posted a response that said his thanks went to all the service members not just the ones that had been injured. Well of course I thought, ok, that is not exactly what I meant, but the post was about disabilities. I didn't cry, I didn't delete my post, I pulled up my big boy panties and moved on. Obviously I tripped his trigger, didn't mean too. It's over...same can be said with what is going on in this country this week. Everyone needs to grow up and move on....everyone....get on your Spyder's right now and go RIDE !!!!

IMHO

[HayRog]

I'm a member of a number of "bike" forums. For what it's worth, I've found that this one is a lot more polite than the others, but just as informative with technical info and general friendly advise and help.

Just my opinion, which I've found is ignored by most of the grand kids anyway.

[Peteoz]

......Did you not notice " REFLECT ON THIS " ..... My post was not directed to YOU !!!! .... and Gruff !!!! all I did was ask a question......Mike

Mike,
I did indeed notice your post heading and was indeed reflecting on your comment. I was reflecting on how anyone could possibly think that it was OK NOT to bring dangerous advice to general attention, and since only AK and I had posted at that stage, I believe it was a fair assumption that it had germinated from something that was already written. This concerned me as I hadn't seen it and would have to be more careful in my choice of words in future.

Now it's your turn to "Reflect on This" - "is it possible that some of my posts could be interpreted as gruff?".......while being full of valuable information, of course

Pete