CB on a 2016 RT Limited -- Trouble

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Howdy from Texas .... my signature pic is in need of update, so do not pay attention to it. The following question applies to:

• 2016 RT Limited (Intense Red Pearl)
• BRP branded CB installed as part of the purchase (had one on my 2012RT and it worked well).
• Custom Dynamics High Mount Tail Light
• SpyderPops Mirror LED Turn Signals
• SpyderPops Rear LEDs for Run, Brake, Turn

Here is what happens -- the CB just quits working; well, not really there is just nothing coming through the headset.

• Start off on a ride, and it works okay for the first 5 or 10 miles (until the bike warms up).
• Then, suddenly, hubby starts transmitting and I hear nothing (no RX on the display either).
• Sometimes, I can get one more transmission OUT to him saying, can't hear you anymore (most times not). The TX is lit on the display when I do this and I can hear my voice in the headset speakers, I have it set so I get a slight amount of voice feedback.
• What tells me there is something really wrong with either this CB, the entertainment harness, or the install is this:
  
  • When I slowly lower the squelch to the point where RX is constant on the display, there is NOTHING in the headset speakers. Doing this also cuts off the music, since the CB is "receiving," but I should hear noise in the headset and I hear nothing. Have swapped headsets for a known good set from my 2012RT.

Note that this has been a problem from the day the CB was installed; it is only recently that we felt we had enough data to say the problem is on the Spyder and not my husbands Indian with a J & M CB. I also had a month long delay due to a family emergency, so we did not actually get to report this to the dealer until AFTER the above LEDs were installed.

Well, guess what? BRP says to unhook the LEDs .... ummm, no ... we told you this was a problem from the start and doing so doesn't show why once the bike is warm the CB quits -- they are not related (at least I don't think so).

So, I have two questions:

1. For the CB experts out there, do you think I have a bad CB, entertainment harness, or install? How can I check?
2. Does anyone else have this combination of LEDs and a CB installed (or something similar? I had the HMT with turn signals on my 2012, so I am pretty well convinced the LEDs are not the problem.

All input and ideas appreciated -- I did do a brief search but did not come up with LED and CB in the same post.

All the best .... Ann

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

So, I have two questions:

1. For the CB experts out there, do you think I have a bad CB, entertainment harness, or install? How can I check?
2. Does anyone else have this combination of LEDs and a CB installed (or something similar? I had the HMT with turn signals on my 2012, so I am pretty well convinced the LEDs are not the problem.

All input and ideas appreciated -- I did do a brief search but did not come up with LED and CB in the same post.

All the best .... Ann

I have the CB and the CD high mount brake light, plus a brake light modulator. I agree that the LEDs are not the source of the problem, but they are an after market item. BRP's first reaction will be to blame anything not made by BRP as the cause, especially if whoever responded is a 'bookie' and has no hands on experience.

Your best bet is to humor them and disconnect the CD light. I'm sure they'll finally figure out the CB is bonkers. It sounds to me like there is something like a cold solder joint somewhere that opens up when things get warm. There are some pretty good sized heat sinks inside the CB so that tells you there is a fair amount of heat generated by the components.

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

I have the CB and the CD high mount brake light, plus a brake light modulator. I agree that the LEDs are not the source of the problem, but they are an after market item. BRP's first reaction will be to blame anything not made by BRP as the cause, especially if whoever responded is a 'bookie' and has no hands on experience.

Your best bet is to humor them and disconnect the CD light. I'm sure they'll finally figure out the CB is bonkers. It sounds to me like there is something like a cold solder joint somewhere that opens up when things get warm. There are some pretty good sized heat sinks inside the CB so that tells you there is a fair amount of heat generated by the components.

I think you nailed the problem, heat within the CB causing a "disconnect" somehow. We just got back from a ride where the highest outside temp was 75 degrees (started off at 62 degrees). At the start of the ride, performed just fine ... but still have to get WAY to close to hubby for him to receive (his squelch is properly adjusted). As things warmed up, reception started to go away, getting progressively more choppy -- it never completely quit, but did get bad enough at 75 degrees that it was frustrating to use the CB. Previous rides where it has quit all together were in the 85 to 95 degree range for ambient temperature.

Oh, BTW, this was all done without unhooking the LEDs -- I just don't want to take the whole back end apart to unplug them.

Thanks for the response -- will let you know what the final outcome is with BRP ... Ann

[ceyer69]

I had a CB installed and working well since I purchased my 2015 RT S. I also went with the J&M upgrade antenna. I recently installed TricLed LED Driving lights. I immediately started getting RX feedback when I turn on the LED's. I have rewired the circuit through the FZ1 also purchased through TricLed, replaced the dimmer that came with the lights with a standard on/off switch, still getting noise bleed? If I turn the Squelch almost all the way up to the top, noise stops but will have very little receive. Note: wiring is installed on left front side of bike totally opposite of the cb.
Anyone else install these driving lights and have a CB?

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I had a CB installed and working well since I purchased my 2015 RT S. I also went with the J&M upgrade antenna. I recently installed TricLed LED Driving lights. I immediately started getting RX feedback when I turn on the LED's. I have rewired the circuit through the FZ1 also purchased through TricLed, replaced the dimmer that came with the lights with a standard on/off switch, still getting noise bleed? If I turn the Squelch almost all the way up to the top, noise stops but will have very little receive. Note: wiring is installed on left front side of bike totally opposite of the cb.
Anyone else install these driving lights and have a CB?

When you hear the noise have you turned the lights on & off? If so, does the noise stop immediately when you turn the lights off? If that's the case then most likely the LED driver is generating the noise. Call Reggie at TricLED and let him know. They need to be aware of this. Interference of this type quite possibly is a violation of FCC regulations.

Based on a Google search LED interference with radios is a known problem caused by poor design but can often be solved with ferrite coils or chokes. Let TricLED determine what the solution is and send it to you.

The wiring to the headset from the CB is at the front left side, where you say the LED wiring is. The headset wiring is unshielded so it is susceptible to picking up external electromagnetic interference. That's probably what's feeding the noise into the CB.

[ceyer69]

Thanks for the advice! Noise stops immediately when turning off the light. Where exactly is the CB wiring coming from the CB to the headset? I thought it ran down the right side of the tank?(If your sitting on the bike) I have the right side driving light wire running over to the left side just below the headlights and then coming around underneath the mirror and through the dash. I mounted a switch in the left speaker grill. I did let Reggie know of this issue and he says someone else has this setup with cb and no reported issue.

When you hear the noise have you turned the lights on & off? If so, does the noise stop immediately when you turn the lights off? If that's the case then most likely the LED driver is generating the noise. Call Reggie at TricLED and let him know. They need to be aware of this. Interference of this type quite possibly is a violation of FCC regulations.

Based on a Google search LED interference with radios is a known problem caused by poor design but can often be solved with ferrite coils or chokes. Let TricLED determine what the solution is and send it to you.

The wiring to the headset from the CB is at the front left side, where you say the LED wiring is. The headset wiring is unshielded so it is susceptible to picking up external electromagnetic interference. That's probably what's feeding the noise into the CB.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks for the advice! Noise stops immediately when turning off the light. Where exactly is the CB wiring coming from the CB to the headset? I thought it ran down the right side of the tank?(If your sitting on the bike) I have the right side driving light wire running over to the left side just below the headlights and then coming around underneath the mirror and through the dash. I mounted a switch in the left speaker grill. I did let Reggie know of this issue and he says someone else has this setup with cb and no reported issue.

There is an entertainment harness that crosses the bike from the CB. It has a connector on it for the optional XM radio which is located in the same relative area as the CB but on the left side. It also has a connector there for the driver headset and a pigtail with headset connector for the passenger headset. The driver headset harness drops to the left from the headset connector and goes along the left side of the gas tank back to the entertainment harness connector.

I would suggest you try one of these first, whichever is easier and or cheaper. Put a ferrite choke on each light wire. You can get chokes from Radio Shack (if any are left close to you), a local electronics parts dealer, maybe from an independent computer repair shop, maybe an independent television/electronics repair shop, or online from an electronics supplier like Mouser or even someone on eBay. Or, move as much of the light wiring to the right side and up near the front as possible.

The next step would be to control the lights with a relay instead of the switch as you are now. Use the switch to operate the relay but try to use a power lead through the switch to the relay coil that is not connected to the power wire going to the lights. The idea is to keep the LED light wires that are carrying the RF interference from the lights as far away from the audio system wires as possible.

If none of this helps, send the lights back for a refund if you can and try another supplier's lights.

I still think Reggie should be willing to help you find a solution.

[ceyer69]

I will try the chokes first !!

[viperryder]

I have a 2014 RTS with both the CD high mount brake light and full CB hook-up. Have both CB hook ups for myself and wife, but we have none of the problems you are talking about. Have had CB since we bought Spyder. Just letting you know what we have.

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Well, the second CB on this bike is now (apparently) toast .... maybe it was from the beginning; hard to say. Anyway, while the heat issues identified above seem to have gone away so that the unit never stops working completely .... there is still the terrible problem of my ability to transmit to hubby without being 10 feet from is a&& end! Plus, I have to leave the CB in LO mode because DX causes extreme static / noise on both transmit and receive -- oh, and this is without either bikes engines running (just sitting still, key on and trying to talk). This is all VERY frustrating and so disappointing because the CB on our 2012 was SO good.

Now, I do have to say that our dealer (C & S Fun Center in Henrietta, TX) and BRP are stepping up to try and resolve this once and for all (basically been a problem since the day we picked up the Spyder). Here is what they will do:

• Replace the radio
• Replace the CB
• Replace the entertainment harness
• Replace the antenna cable
• Install (and reimburse us for) the J & M antenna that we have already purchased

There are conditions ... that we will comply with to prove the CB works on an "unaltered bike" -- they are:

• Unplug the High Mount Tail Light
• Unplug all the rear LEDs (this is the Spyderpops set that is run / brake / turn, really lights up the back of the bike).
• May also have to unplug the mirror LEDs (BRP did say "ALL")

Note that all the LEDs are "plug and play", purchased from Spyderpops, and use power bridges so no wires are "tapped" to install.

My plan is to leave the power bridges in place, have the dealer cover them with some plastic bags to keep dust out, and run with NO LEDs for a few weeks. Then, plug them back in one at a time .... mirrors first, then High Mount Tail Light, then the rest of the rear LEDs (four total).

IF the interference comes back, then I guess I will have to investigate these chokes. At this point, I am wondering where the chokes might need to go -- on the little tiny wires from the LEDs? somewhere on the power bridge(s)? somewhere on the bike?

So ... it does look like BRP is stepping up to try and resolve this. I don't like that I will have to run without the LEDs for a while -- but they would not agree to the warranty repair if I didn't.

Oh ... and one final note; this entire saga will delay installation of my Magic Mirror mounts. No need to introduce yet another variable that BRP can point at as a problem.

Thanks for listening and also for any suggestions ..... Ann

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Now, I do have to say that our dealer (C & S Fun Center in Henrietta, TX) and BRP are stepping up to try and resolve this once and for all (basically been a problem since the day we picked up the Spyder). Here is what they will do:

• Replace the radio
• Replace the CB
• Replace the entertainment harness
• Replace the antenna cable
• Install (and reimburse us for) the J & M antenna that we have already purchased

I guess we could call that frustratingly good! Good to hear they aren't just leaving you out in the cold and hanging. The conditions may well be to cover their rears internally in the organization. Considering the $$ of all the pieces involved it's well worth playing along with them. I'm guessing you'll soon be back to having all your LEDs operating and a CB that works properly. I'm sure the only reason they're replacing the radio, harness, and cable is they don't want to take a chance on having to tear your bike apart a second time just in case the CB isn't the sole cause of the problem.

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

I'm sure the only reason they're replacing the radio, harness, and cable is they don't want to take a chance on having to tear your bike apart a second time just in case the CB isn't the sole cause of the problem.

OMG ! It's like a whole new entertainment system! Oh, wait, is IS a whole new entertainment system. Here are the things I have noticed so far:

• The headset plugs look to have a wider / deeper well around them; making for what feels like a more positive connection.
• Turning the squelch all the way down to the point where one receives nothing but noise and a constant RX is dramatic and obvious (even with wind noise at speed, I can hear it). With the prior two units, this noise was either subtle or not there at all.
• Everything surrounding the radio just seems to work "better" -- volume is very noticeable and I think the overall sound quality is better too.
• Transmit and receive on the CB are so good that I am leaving the controls on LO (instead of DX) and can reach my husband (or he can reach me) at about 3/4 of a mile. There is NO static unless we are a good distance apart or unless on either side of the crest of a hill ... and even then I can't call it static, more like a hissing hum that is not bad and does not inhibit understanding.

Per agreement, I am leaving the LEDs unplugged for a while (probably about a month) and then will plug them in one at a time -- mirrors first, then HMT, then the run / brake / turn.

So, I am now very pleased with the CB ... works better than the one on my 2012 ever did (and it was VERY good) .... Ann

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

OMG ! It's like a whole new entertainment system! Oh, wait, is IS a whole new entertainment system. Here are the things I have noticed so far:

• The headset plugs look to have a wider / deeper well around them; making for what feels like a more positive connection.
• Turning the squelch all the way down to the point where one receives nothing but noise and a constant RX is dramatic and obvious (even with wind noise at speed, I can hear it). With the prior two units, this noise was either subtle or not there at all.
• Everything surrounding the radio just seems to work "better" -- volume is very noticeable and I think the overall sound quality is better too.
• Transmit and receive on the CB are so good that I am leaving the controls on LO (instead of DX) and can reach my husband (or he can reach me) at about 3/4 of a mile. There is NO static unless we are a good distance apart or unless on either side of the crest of a hill ... and even then I can't call it static, more like a hissing hum that is not bad and does not inhibit understanding.

Per agreement, I am leaving the LEDs unplugged for a while (probably about a month) and then will plug them in one at a time -- mirrors first, then HMT, then the run / brake / turn.

So, I am now very pleased with the CB ... works better than the one on my 2012 ever did (and it was VERY good) .... Ann

Some LEDs put out RF noise. Be interesting to see what happens when u connect them back up.

[Spyder_Cowgirl]

Some LEDs put out RF noise. Be interesting to see what happens when u connect them back up.

It will be interesting ... however, I do not think the LEDs are the problem. All the problems, with BOTH prior CBs started BEFORE the LEDs were put on the bike. BRP knows this and they also know that the LEDs are "plug and play" using power bridges, so no wires were "tapped" for the install (that is also why they were so easy to disconnect). Also, I did run without the LEDs for a few days and it made no difference. Since everything about the radio and the CB are so dramatically improved ... I am guessing a problem with the radio and / or the entertainment harness.

At this point, I am looking at possibly trying to find some ferrite beads to put around the LED wires when I begin to plug them back in (I think these are called chokes?). Supposed to cut down on RF noise. I know they do work as we have one on our "Envoy" monitor for our solar -- Enphase requires it because (as I understand it), there is proven RF emissions that interfere with the LAN connection since the unit reads the inverter data through the power lines.

The problem with the chokes will be finding some small enough to install, but big enough to do the job. Thanks .... Ann

[WA5VHU]

As an Amateur Radio operator I can say that many/most LED lights generate some RF noise. That noise would most likely come into your CB radio via the antenna and on a Spyder everything is close together! The other day I plopped my FM music radio down on a table in the corner of the garage, turned it on and got music with static. Turned off the garage lights and all the static went away. The LED floodlights were right above the music radio. I had to move it across the garage away from the lights to get decent music.

Your plan to plug the lights back in one at a time sounds good.


Charles

[2ndChildhood]

Howdy from Texas .... my signature pic is in need of update, so do not pay attention to it. The following question applies to:

• 2016 RT Limited (Intense Red Pearl)
• BRP branded CB installed as part of the purchase (had one on my 2012RT and it worked well).
• Custom Dynamics High Mount Tail Light
• SpyderPops Mirror LED Turn Signals
• SpyderPops Rear LEDs for Run, Brake, Turn

Here is what happens -- the CB just quits working; well, not really there is just nothing coming through the headset.

• Start off on a ride, and it works okay for the first 5 or 10 miles (until the bike warms up).
• Then, suddenly, hubby starts transmitting and I hear nothing (no RX on the display either).
• Sometimes, I can get one more transmission OUT to him saying, can't hear you anymore (most times not). The TX is lit on the display when I do this and I can hear my voice in the headset speakers, I have it set so I get a slight amount of voice feedback.
• What tells me there is something really wrong with either this CB, the entertainment harness, or the install is this:
  
  • When I slowly lower the squelch to the point where RX is constant on the display, there is NOTHING in the headset speakers. Doing this also cuts off the music, since the CB is "receiving," but I should hear noise in the headset and I hear nothing. Have swapped headsets for a known good set from my 2012RT.

Note that this has been a problem from the day the CB was installed; it is only recently that we felt we had enough data to say the problem is on the Spyder and not my husbands Indian with a J & M CB. I also had a month long delay due to a family emergency, so we did not actually get to report this to the dealer until AFTER the above LEDs were installed.

Well, guess what? BRP says to unhook the LEDs .... ummm, no ... we told you this was a problem from the start and doing so doesn't show why once the bike is warm the CB quits -- they are not related (at least I don't think so).

So, I have two questions:

1. For the CB experts out there, do you think I have a bad CB, entertainment harness, or install? How can I check?
2. Does anyone else have this combination of LEDs and a CB installed (or something similar? I had the HMT with turn signals on my 2012, so I am pretty well convinced the LEDs are not the problem.

All input and ideas appreciated -- I did do a brief search but did not come up with LED and CB in the same post.

All the best .... Ann

Are you using your iPhone or a MP3 player? I had problems with that combination. I do have a workaround that works great.

[Tazzel]

I have a friend with a 2016 RT and had the dealer install a CB for them which came out of their 2012 RT. The 2016 RT Spyder ran like a champ but about every 200 miles it would go into limp mode. After about 10 of these limp modes and a lot of diagnostic's, the dealer finally pulled the CB and the Spyder has never gone into limp mode again. They have decided to do without the CB.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have a friend with a 2016 RT and had the dealer install a CB for them which came out of their 2012 RT. The 2016 RT Spyder ran like a champ but about every 200 miles it would go into limp mode. After about 10 of these limp modes and a lot of diagnostic's, the dealer finally pulled the CB and the Spyder has never gone into limp mode again. They have decided to do without the CB.

There was a problem when the 2014s came out with CBs causing the bike to go into limp mode. BRP stopped selling the CB for awhile and came out with a new version of it. So whatever was causing the limp mode with your friend's RT was probably related to the 2012 CB unit in line with the 2014 problems. I had a 2010 CB unit I used in my 2013 RT until it crapped out from getting wet inside. I was going to use it in my 2014 but of course didn't since it turned into junk. I got a 2015 CB from one of the SL members here and it has worked good, except for some squealing and SWR problems which I ultimately determined was caused by a bad headset cord. Maybe the fact the 2010 unit got wet died saved me a bunch of grief!