2012 RTL (SE5) will not shift

[JayHawker]

Was riding yesterday came to stop and transmission did not down shift, stayed in 5 gear. Check oil level and it was ok. Had to have tow truck tow it home. Looked at it this morning and noticed shift linkage hanging down by left floorboard. jacked up and found that linkage had come off shaft coming out of transmission. Reattached started bike and same condition stuck in 5 gear. Checked for error codes, no error codes, checked all the fuses in frunk and under seat, all good. Searched forum for similar problem and noticed in a couple post people talking about gear position sensor. I wasn't able for post to find out where it is and how to check. Anyone got any info on gear position sensor or know off anything else I can do to find out how to fix.
Thanks

[billybovine]

If the gear position sensor was bad the the display would show "E" in gear position and the "R" and "N" lights will alternately flash. The cause for your issue is the gear shift lever fell off and maybe you put it back on wrong. Try again. Take it back off. Start up the Spyder. Wait for it to stop trying to shift to neutral. Then slide the lever back on the shaft.

[JayHawker]

Thanks for help, can't try this until tomorrow I will let you know if it works.

[Bob Denman]

Good Luck!

If you put a wrench onto the shift rod: you should be able to see how much movement you need in each direction. (For upshifting, and downshifting). You might have just set that linkage onto the shaft in such a manner, that it didn't have the necessary available movement...

[Ronsam]

CHeck the shift rod is out ot the shaft, The same thing apen to me. THis is a mistake from BRP. With the locking bolt the shift rod should never come out

Was riding yesterday came to stop and transmission did not down shift, stayed in 5 gear. Check oil level and it was ok. Had to have tow truck tow it home. Looked at it this morning and noticed shift linkage hanging down by left floorboard. jacked up and found that linkage had come off shaft coming out of transmission. Reattached started bike and same condition stuck in 5 gear. Checked for error codes, no error codes, checked all the fuses in frunk and under seat, all good. Searched forum for similar problem and noticed in a couple post people talking about gear position sensor. I wasn't able for post to find out where it is and how to check. Anyone got any info on gear position sensor or know off anything else I can do to find out how to fix.
Thanks

[JayHawker]

Update, well got bike fixed today. As you guys suggested had to try a couple different lengths of shift rod to get it to work right. Also I learned something, to shift from 1st to N you have to have foot on brake. Don't know if I just never knew this or just did automatically when riding. Also have another question, the bolt that tightens bracket on the splined shaft has to be remove to put bracket on the shaft, right? When mine came off the bolt was still in the bracket and tight, how could the bracket come off with the bolt in place? Anyone got any ideas?
Lastly, thanks everyone for the help.

[Bob Denman]

That bolt might not need to be removed; perhaps just loosening it, will provide enough slack...
It it's completely tight, and stiill fell off; perhaps it was never actually completely slid on the shaft in the first place.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

You've probably figured out by now that the little bolt that goes through the shift lever isn't really there to squeeze down on that shifter shaft, but rather it's supposed to go through that groove that's machined into the shaft. Why these things come off is a big question. If the bolt is properly positioned in that groove, then it should keep the shift lever on there. You do use that slot to align the lever to the shaft. Align the slot to the dot at the end of the shaft. But I doubt seriously that the bolt accomplishes much, if any, squeezing of the lever to the shaft. That thing is pretty stout. Pictures below.

[JayHawker]

Didn't realize there are marks for lining up bracket and shaft, your picture shows that clearly. Where did you get the picture? I don't know if mine is lined up exactly but it works and I am not going to mess with it. Also the bolt through the bracket, I realized that it was not a bolt to squeeze the bracket on the shaft but with the bolt in place on shaft there is no way bracket could come off. My guess is it was not put on properly at assemble of bike.
BTY my bike is also a 2012 RTL Lave Bronze, best color of Spyders.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Didn't realize there are marks for lining up bracket and shaft, your picture shows that clearly. Where did you get the picture? I don't know if mine is lined up exactly but it works and I am not going to mess with it. Also the bolt through the bracket, I realized that it was not a bolt to squeeze the bracket on the shaft but with the bolt in place on shaft there is no way bracket could come off. My guess is it was not put on properly at assemble of bike.
BTY my bike is also a 2012 RTL Lave Bronze, best color of Spyders.

Best color for Spyders - Copy that.

There's a collection of BRP service manuals called Green Manuals. PDF versions and you can print out what you need. You can check it out here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Can-Am-...-/251597890917

I only bring up the slot squeezing thing because sometimes a belief gets mentioned that that's how it works. But once you see the thing in the flesh it becomes obvious. Years ago I told the SA at my dealership that this arm was being reported as coming off, and he thought that I was outside my mind. I didn't really take mine all apart and look at it up close. But I think that the bolt needs more shank area and less threads. Maybe the depth and pitch of the threads are so similar to the splines on the shaft that in the right alignment, the thing can slip off. Or as you say, some aren't put on correctly in the first place. Just check on it occasionally and ride on.

[billybovine]

If you do not tighten the pinch bolt it will wear a notch in the bolt and the lever will fall off. You cannot leave it loose. It does not take much effort to tighten the lever onto the spline. Had to do that on my 09. My 13 was tightened properly from the factory and has never come loose. I check it every oil change. Grab it with your hand. If the lever slides on the shaft at all it is too loose.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

If you do not tighten the pinch bolt it will wear a notch in the bolt and the lever will fall off. You cannot leave it loose. It does not take much effort to tighten the lever onto the spline. Had to do that on my 09. My 13 was tightened properly from the factory and has never come loose. I check it every oil change. Grab it with your hand. If the lever slides on the shaft at all it is too loose.

The OP and I both find it doubtful whether the bolt can physically "pinch" it at all. It doesn't seem so. The arm would have to allow the pinching movement to flex the metal somewhere, to make the hole smaller. Because it's a solid piece with the slot only cut in the center, that doesn't seem to be very plausible. Didn't work on my machine, anyway. The primary mechanism that holds the arm on is that the bolt rides in the groove cut around the shaft, capturing the arm to the shaft. And yes, if there's a notch cut into the bolt, it will slip past the groove and the arm will come off. Bottom line though, keeping the bolt tight, however it works, is always a good thing. Now I need a nap.

[billybovine]

The OP and I both find it doubtful whether the bolt can physically "pinch" it at all. It doesn't seem so. The arm would have to allow the pinching movement to flex the metal somewhere, to make the hole smaller. Because it's a solid piece with the slot only cut in the center, that doesn't seem to be very plausible. Didn't work on my machine, anyway. The primary mechanism that holds the arm on is that the bolt rides in the groove cut around the shaft, capturing the arm to the shaft. And yes, if there's a notch cut into the bolt, it will slip past the groove and the arm will come off. Bottom line though, keeping the bolt tight, however it works, is always a good thing. Now I need a nap.

It tightened easy enough on my 09. That is what the slot is for.

[RickyBobby]

Last month it was a $1700 DPS failure. Today, it stops shifting, stuck in 5th gear. No N, no R, no E or codes. Throttle also not responding normally. It sounds like it is trying to shift, but nothing happens.


What I have tried:

1. Oil level was low, filled to proper level
2. Foot on brake - switch on, clear nag screen, crank. 5th gear
3. Used the wrench trick to move the linkage. Noticed that bracket moved but splined shaft did not. Bracket would move in and out on splined shaft. Screw was not loose. I loosened the screw and pushed the bracket further on to the splined shaft (I did this prior to finding this post and seeing the photos of the shaft).

I will go back out and try the suggestion of pulling the bracket off the shaft, starting, and letting the transmission try to find "home".

I have also seem something about a solenoid ground wire addition. Does anyone know where that thread is? I found it once, but am unable to again.

A mystery in search of a clue.

*UPDATE*
I went back out and double-checked for codes in the magical "display codes mode". Nothing.

Also, I removed the screw from the bracket and pulled the bracket off of the splined shaft. Started the engine (foot on brake the whole time) and let it run a minute or so. No N showed up as I had hoped. Still 5. Replaced the bracket onto the splined shaft (slot aligned with mark), screw is correctly located in groove on splined shaft. Foot on brake started again, still showing 5. Also now, didn't notice before, the is a whining noise when engine is running. Not as loud as my whining because the bike is out of order again though.

[RickyBobby]

Last month it was a $1700 DPS failure. Today, it stops shifting, stuck in 5th gear. No N, no R, no E or codes. Throttle also not responding normally. It sounds like it is trying to shift, but nothing happens.


What I have tried:

1. Oil level was low, filled to proper level
2. Foot on brake - switch on, clear nag screen, crank. 5th gear
3. Used the wrench trick to move the linkage. Noticed that bracket moved but splined shaft did not. Bracket would move in and out on splined shaft. Screw was not loose. I loosened the screw and pushed the bracket further on to the splined shaft (I did this prior to finding this post and seeing the photos of the shaft).

I will go back out and try the suggestion of pulling the bracket off the shaft, starting, and letting the transmission try to find "home".

I have also seem something about a solenoid ground wire addition. Does anyone know where that thread is? I found it once, but am unable to again.

A mystery in search of a clue.

*UPDATE*
I went back out and double-checked for codes in the magical "display codes mode". Nothing.

Also, I removed the screw from the bracket and pulled the bracket off of the splined shaft. Started the engine (foot on brake the whole time) and let it run a minute or so. No N showed up as I had hoped. Still 5. Replaced the bracket onto the splined shaft (slot aligned with mark), screw is correctly located in groove on splined shaft. Foot on brake started again, still showing 5. Also now, didn't notice before, the is a whining noise when engine is running. Not as loud as my whining because the bike is out of order again though.

I still have not been able to find info about how to ground the solenoid, or which solenoid to ground. Additionally, there is oil on the connector for the GPS. Could this be an issue in the wiring/connector?

[stevencovert]

If you are changing gear manually (if I read it right) then the gearbox position sensor might be broken. Can you use the wrench method and rock the bike to try to get to neutral? Pay no attention to the gear that shows on the dash - if the GBPS is toast won't give right gear. If you can get to netral and the dash shows 5 still, should prove it is the sensor. Replacing it is time consuming but not difficult. If you do replace, use the jack method to remove the lower shock bolt and do it that way!

Also try unplugging and spraying the connectors with brakeclean of or something just in case oil or dirt in there.

The GBPS is just a poteniometer (cheaply made!). If you have a meter I think you could test it, if you can get leads in there. Between the center pin and one of the outside pins should read some ohms. THen wrench to another gear and see if the ohms change. I;m totally guessing but the ohms should be in the 1000's, and change a couple 1000 switching gears.

[RickyBobby]

If you are changing gear manually (if I read it right) then the gearbox position sensor might be broken. Can you use the wrench method and rock the bike to try to get to neutral? Pay no attention to the gear that shows on the dash - if the GBPS is toast won't give right gear. If you can get to netral and the dash shows 5 still, should prove it is the sensor. Replacing it is time consuming but not difficult. If you do replace, use the jack method to remove the lower shock bolt and do it that way!

Also try unplugging and spraying the connectors with brakeclean of or something just in case oil or dirt in there.

The GBPS is just a poteniometer (cheaply made!). If you have a meter I think you could test it, if you can get leads in there. Between the center pin and one of the outside pins should read some ohms. THen wrench to another gear and see if the ohms change. I;m totally guessing but the ohms should be in the 1000's, and change a couple 1000 switching gears.

Thanks stevencovert. I will try these suggestions today.
Also, I found a post with info on the ground wire.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...=ground%20wire

[RickyBobby]

Thanks stevencovert. I will try these suggestions today.
Also, I found a post with info on the ground wire.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...=ground%20wire

Pulled off the left mid and lower skins. Unplugged the connector to the sensor. Sprayed QD Contact Cleaner in the connector on the sensor and in the plug on the cable. Put a meter across all combinations of the 3 pins on the sensor, also from each pin to ground... Nothing. Am I correct to conclude that the sensor is dead?
Can the sensor be removed without removing the pulley?
The coils are grounded. Looks factory.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hey RB. Humor me for a minute and let's go back to your original post. Remember that the arm and the linkage attached to it are the actual shifting mechanism from the hydraulic unit to the transmission. Without it connected, the transmission isn't able to find neutral, "home', or anything else for that matter. So, let's disregard any conclusions you might have made regarding that exercise. You also mentioned in that post that you moved the shifter arm with the wrench - page 136 of your Owners Manual - and that the arm moved but the shaft did not. That information itself would indicate that the splines are stripped in the arm. Happens sometimes. You told us that you took off the arm and put it back on, but you have never confirmed that you have, in fact, actually been able to shift gears with the wrench. In other words, simply going by what you've actually told us and not what's been assumed, there's not enough information here to confirm or not confirm that your not actually still in 5th gear.

Plug the GBPS back in, start it up, release the parking brake, take your foot off the brake and give it some throttle. Are you in neutral or some other forward or reverse gear? Using the wrench procedure, you should be able to positively shift the transmission so that there is no question if and when you are in neutral, and thus no question if the splines in the arm are damaged. Just be safe while you're working under there.

if you absolutely feel that the GBPS is bad, you might be able to change it out yourself, but you won't be able to initialize it yourself without the BUDS software that your dealer has. You know by looking at it whether it can be removed without removing the front sprocket. But again, per the shop manual, you have to be in neutral to do that work. Which brings us back to the first question - is the shaft turning with the arm, can you shift gears with the wrench and what gear is the transmission actually in now, not what the display says?

By the way - when taking readings of the sensor with your meter, ensure that you've selected the meter to read resistance - i.e. Ohms - and not volts. There is no information in the shop manual on what the proper values are. Sensor resistance values are not tested.

[RickyBobby]

After ohming out the connector (yes, meter set to Ohms) on the GPS and getting no resistance at all between the pins (the pins on the sensor, not the cable) or pins to ground, I went to the dealer.
The Can-Am certified tech was there. I explained the whole ordeal. Not wanting to commit to a definite "yes, that will fix it" without having inspected it himself, he suggested that replacing the solenoid would be where he would start if it was his out of warranty bike.
Ordered the part from 2WheelPros for $120. Should be here 7/25.
One of the screws that hold the sensor comes out without a hitch. However, the other one bottoms out against the belt sprocket before clearing the hole in the transmission housing. My next task is backing the pulley out 1/4" or so without messing up belt tension or alignment. If possible.

http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/...-assembly.html

[stevencovert]

When I changed mine, I used the shock method. Remove the lower shock nut off the bolt (13mm). Jack up the bike about midway on the center frame, slowly. The rear A frame will drop and you will find a point where the shock bolt slides right out. Keep jacking up and the belt will slip right off. No messing with the alignment screws.

[pegasus1300]

jay Hawker,I have to go along with Snowbelt Spyder. Without confirming that the splines on the little shifter are good we can't tell what's going on. The shaft coming out of the engine is much harder than the little shifter shaft. It is much softer then the engine shift shaft so it's splines are going to go first. And when it goes it is going to be stuck in whatever gear you are in at the time. The little shifter will need to be replaced(cheap part) and a new retainer bolt put in to hold it to the shaft. You can then put it in any gear you need it to be in then loosen it and index it as you need. This is more difficult to write about then to actually do. Anyway once you have it as you want it tighten it down and go on your merry little way. At this point I really don't think more then some stripped splines are involved here. I am adding to my regular oil change procedure a quick check of this little shifter and bolt for tightness. Hope you get your problem solved quickly.

[RickyBobby]

After ohming out the connector (yes, meter set to Ohms) on the GPS and getting no resistance at all between the pins (the pins on the sensor, not the cable) or pins to ground, I went to the dealer.
The Can-Am certified tech was there. I explained the whole ordeal. Not wanting to commit to a definite "yes, that will fix it" without having inspected it himself, he suggested that replacing the solenoid would be where he would start if it was his out of warranty bike.
Ordered the part from 2WheelPros for $120. Should be here 7/25.
One of the screws that hold the sensor comes out without a hitch. However, the other one bottoms out against the belt sprocket before clearing the hole in the transmission housing. My next task is backing the pulley out 1/4" or so without messing up belt tension or alignment. If possible.

http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/...-assembly.html

I have seen in a couple of places where it's stated that the GPS can be replaced without removing the front pulley. On a 2010 RTS SE5, that is positively not true. The most frustrating part is that I only need about 1/16 of an inch more clearance. You cannot get the ridge on the sensor over the positioning shaft that works the sensor.

[billybovine]

Jayhawker, Thanks for posting this, add another SE5 Gear Shift Lever Can-Am item# 420257881 failure at 30,000 miles. I happened to have read and followed your post when you started this thread just as I was buying my (Used) '13 Spyder with only 8k on it. Yesterday with only 29,800+ miles on it, it happened to me. Thanks to Billybovine and Bob's suggestions, I was able to get moving again very quickly (Factory included tool kit had the 13mm wrench and 5mm allen that allowed me to pull the Socket Head Screw M6 X 25 Can-Am item: 205062544 out, slide the Gear Shift Lever back on and re-affix. Before I could get home, it happened 3 more times! I'm thinking that just ordering the Gear Shift lever and replacing that bolt MAY not be the final fix.
I'll take any suggestions of what else I should look at if I have to have the Shift Shaft replaced. Per my Service Manual, the Clutch Shaft Ass'y 420620598 includes all the seals, sleeves, springs needed for the shaft. Thankfully that shaft can be done without removing the engine, but there's gotta be other gaskets / seals that have to be replaced with that. I know the clutch cover and hub have to be removed and to take the clutch cover off the right side is almost completely removed, all panels, and the support bar (what there's only 20 zip ties on that support).

Anyone actually done this themselves?

Why the hell are you going to change the shifter shaft. The shift lever is far softer steel then the shaft. Take some pictures of the shaft splines and let us have a look.

[DGoebel]

Why the hell are you going to change the shifter shaft. The shift lever is far softer steel then the shaft. Take some pictures of the shaft splines and let us have a look.

BB, I'm actually in the process of starting another thread about this and deleted my original post in this thread. IF I have to replace the shifter shaft, due to wearing the splines on the outboard section of the shifter shart, else why would the gear shift lever keep working loose after being re-mounted and bolted.
I'll be taking those pics and posting soon. I'm thinking that every time it worked back loose, the retaining bolt was wearing the outboard splines off/down as it became loose / canted again.