Engine downshift as a brake

[BigGuy66]

Please tell me if I a) should or b) shouldn't use downshifting the engine along with the brake to slow/stop my Spyder. This is NOT a quiz. Everyone gets an 'A'.


Ryde, eat, sleep... Repeat

[PaladinLV]

Coming from the TWO wheel world I continue to Downshift

AJ

Please tell me if I a) should or b) shouldn't use downshifting the engine along with the brake to slow/stop my Spyder. This is NOT a quiz. Everyone gets an 'A'.


Ryde, eat, sleep... Repeat

[JKMSPYDER]

I also downshift to save wear and tear on my brakes.

[SpyderAnn01]

I downshift but I don't have a choice.

[Peter Aawen]

Sure you can, if you want to...... &/or if you like being in control, or in the 'right' gear to ensure you have 'proper control' of your Spyder at all times/off any situation - even if you have an SE Spyder!!

Your choice really, altho you did give us the choice of a) or b) responses & then say everyone gets an A, so I guess you'd really already made up your mind!

[kngfsh27]

I let the engine slow me down along with downshifting. I do keep an eye on the mirrors and tap the brakes if someone is close to me.

[Bob Denman]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment...
I would rather put the load on the braking system, than on the drivetrain.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than drive-belts or transmission and clutch pieces...

[Mazo EMS2]

I always down shift to help slow down.....just feels like the right thing to do with an SM5...

[ARtraveler]

Six of one, Half Dozen of the other.

No perfect answer.

Me: I let the engine shift down automatically (SE5 and SE6). If I need to "kick it," I shift down one and "hit it."

[bigbadbrucie]

I've ridden 2 wheels for the past 1/2 century, and I've always, always used downshifting for slowing me down prior to stopping (this of course when conditions permitted) and I'm not about to stop now. That's what transmissions are for....decelerating as well as accelerating. That's why 18 wheelers have jakebreaks. They use the engine to SLOW them down, as do I.

[Peter Aawen]

.....I would rather put the load on the braking system, than on the drivetrain....

But that WILL mean that there are times that you only have ONE option to avoid being creamed by that idiot who's texting while they drive, & that'll be to brake harder, simply because it'll be too late to change down 3 gears & then accelerate out if the way before the impact occurs like you would at least have as an option to do if you'd changed down progressively as you slowed down, always keeping the engine at the 'right revs' for your road speed!! That's 'the other reason' for using your gears properly - if/when the brown stuff hits the fan you are at least in a better gear to give you another choice!?! And if you are reasonably competent at riding/driving, you won't be putting any 'greater load' on your engine, trans, drive belt, or clutch either - they are actually made to work that way & handle that stuff!

Which do you really prefer, using your skills & competences to 'ride defensively & aware' & taking reasonable precautions so that you are at least partially prepared for any eventuality; or coasting along with no other option but braking harder when/if it hits the fan?? It seems odd to me that anyone who would like to be considered a reasonably competent & safe driver/rider would choose the latter.... But then that's just my opinion

[Pampurrs]

Engine braking is commonly used in motorcycles. Those of us who have been riding for years have always done it. It doesn't hurt the engine or tranny as long as it's done properly, and does help improve stopping and brake longevity. The key of course, is being aware of speed and RPM before downshifting, and then downshifting into the right gear.

As someone posted awhile back on a similar thread, and Bob Denman copied and pasted onto this one, it's cheaper to replace brake pads then it is to replace a transmission. However, if done properly you can engine brake without harming the engine or tranny.

Pam

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment...
I would rather put the load on the braking system, than on the drivetrain.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than drive-belts or transmission and clutch pieces...

Over 68,000 posts and this is by far and away the most sensible thing Bob has ever said.... Race car / mtc. driver's use their transmissions to BRAKE ......... But They don't pay to repair them...... and I'm an aggressive driver, and I do downshift, but only to be in a gear that gives me maximum acceleration coming out of the curve...My downshifts do not slow me down..... Play Joe racer if you want, but be prepared to pay for a tranny or clutch repair Bill $$$$$$....... Mike

[Pampurrs]

Over 68,000 posts and this is by far and away the most sensible thing Bob has ever said....

That's because he copied it from you on an earlier thread

Pam

[Lastchance]

I've always downshifted to slow down, you will use more clutch slipping the clutch from a stop than you will ever use downshifting, that's just let it out and it's locked, same with the belt one constant pressure holding back the bike not 115 hp trying to get up to the speed limit or more, also the trans if it can't handle a little downshift with help from brakes it shouldn't be in this bike it will get a lot more abuse taking off than it ever will downshifting. Even the owners manual in my wife's car says downshift when going down hill. ( I had to point that out to her )

[jaherbst]

They do down/shift themselves if left to there own but then-----

"To be shifty or shiftless, that is the question"? I see nothing in the owners manual that states one way or

the other. "So what difference does it make"?

The more post's I read the more confusing the world becomes.

[BajaRon]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment...
I would rather put the load on the braking system, than on the drivetrain.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than drive-belts or transmission and clutch pieces...

Sorry Bob. This is a myth. Though I must say, a long cherished and well rehearsed one.

Your gears will far outlast many other engine components. Not a problem. Seriously. Have you ever heard of someone wearing out transmission gears? I've seen them chipped or otherwise damaged from abuse. But more specific. Have you heard anyone here complaining about worn out transmission gears? Clutches and drive belts (as mentioned by another poster) take a great deal more abuse from acceleration than they ever will from proper downshifting.

Not only will you not be wearing your gears out. But putting the load through the engine (correctly) gives you more control than manual braking alone (though ABS does add a bit of caveat to this aspect). Of course you will save in maintenance costs, which is another plus.

In some circumstances you will keep from overheating your brakes and they will still give you great stopping power if needed. As in a long downhill run or towing, hauling heavy loads.

Always use compression braking. It will make you a safer rider and save you money at the same time.

[BigGuy66]

I have my answer. I had always used downshifts with my VTX 1800 and I wanted to be sure I wasn't doing irreparable damage to my byke. (Note the use the "y"). I do like the fact that there are varied examples of advice. That way I can decide with a lot of information. Thanks.


Ryde, eat, sleep... Repeat

[Deer Slayer]

SM5 down shift and brake same time, as when I rode a motorcycle.

[Bob Denman]

Overheating brakes?!?
I live in the mountains, and haven't haven't felt a set of brakes heat up since 1972 !
I'm also existing in a pretty unique place: The traffic density is virtually nil!

[BajaRon]

Overheating brakes?!?
I live in the mountains, and haven't haven't felt a set of brakes heat up since 1972 !
I'm also existing in a pretty unique place: The traffic density is virtually nil!

Probably isn't going to happen much with a Spyder, I suppose. More likely with a bus or heavy truck. With the Spyder, more likely with organic than sintered pads. But I still think you could probably get the brakes pretty hot under the right circumstances. If you did, then when you really needed them for a panic stop they might not give you what you needed.

Long shot? Maybe. But good gearing/braking habits are a good thing to have. Even if you never need them. I just hate to see someone not use compression braking because they are worried about wearing out their transmission.

[GOZFST]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment...
I would rather put the load on the braking system, than on the drivetrain.
Brake pads are much cheaper to replace than drive-belts or transmission and clutch pieces...

Plus 1 and if you downshift too early and the rear wheels skids as a result you can make it harder to control. Back when I was roadracing if I dropped down a gear too soon the rear wheel would hop and I'd lose traction.

[Chupaca]

having worked on many a motorcycle transmission in my time I have never seen damage from up or down shifting with loads. I have always used the engine to slow down and being in the proper gear has saved my, and the wife's, butt many times. There will come a time when you will realize that you will not be able to stop in time but if you power through you will make it . You better be in the right gear to do this...don't ask, I have fingernail scars which remind me . The fact I have a manual and was able to slip the clutch made a world of difference. There are courses to help with this kind of driving and well worth it...

[asp125]

I use engine braking to slow down for curves where I don't need brakes, and sometimes two up I use both engine braking AND brakes to slow down in a hurry.

[Bob Denman]

Isn't this fun??

And the O.P. has asked an excellent question!