Down under Austrailian ? expensive spyders.

[bigwhammy]

Australia buys direct from BRP Canada and our conversion costs are based on exchange rate which is about $1 Canadian for $1 Aust.
Luckily USA residents pay (or should pay) about 25% less than Canadians OR Australians, for BRP products due to exchange rates.
Australians sometimes get told the BRP products cost more now because of the USA exchange rate but the Canadian exchange rate has not fluctuated much since Spyders were first (made) sold in Australia.
So Australians pay from around $35,000 (F3ST) up to $46,000 (RT Limited) US dollars for our Spyders. By comparison we pay $65,000 US $ for a V8 GT Mustang!
Do Spyders cost 30% less than a GT mustang in the usa. I just wonder how much we are paying for add ons ie shipping and our government import taxes etc etc.

I used to import Pontiac Fieros (GM's fantastic plastic) in the 90's and convert them here to Right hand drive.

So I think that maybe even with our poor exchange rate of $1 aust to .75 cents us$ a personal import form USA may be cheaper, if I want to get another one in the future ( maybe a turbo one which I doubt if ever produced will come to Australia).
Shipping a Spyder has got to be cheaper than a car.

Weird question . . . can you buy a Spyder in Canada or USA and get it registered if it has not been assembled out of the transport/packaging container.
Our dealers scrap the shipping box/ containers.

We pay minimal import tax if we own it for over 12 months in another country.
I have friends who would store one for me in my name in USA.
Or maybe a very good second hand one. (with the bigger rear sprocket).

We do not see the 2017 models until May 2017 earliest. We are the last on the shipping destinations.
I purchased the very first F3S in Australia and picked it up in August 2015. I ordered it in October 2014.

I just paid $1500 us$ for BRP fox podium front adjustable shocks here in Australia through the local dealer.
Argh Cost to Date $50,000 US dollars fully optioned with ALL BRP accessories available for the F3S.
I have set the suspension up now after 3 trips to our local race track and it is a wonderful thing to ride fast or cruising.

David

[SpyderAnn01]

[QUOTE=bigwhammy;1182902]

Weird question . . . can you buy a Spyder in Canada or USA and get it registered if it has not been assembled out of the transport/packaging container.
Our dealers scrap the shipping box/ containers.

/QUOTE]

David, I might be able to do that but I don't know if you could. I could take the paperwork to my DMV and they would register the Spyder to me without having the Spyder present- since I am a Nevada resident - but I don't think you could register anything without being a resident. That may be different in other states, I don't have that answer for you. I know that if I brought in a Spyder from out of state I would have to take it to the DMV for them to verify the VIN.

If someone took delivery and titled the Spyder in their name couldn't they then sell it to you as a used machine? Would that get you around the import fees?

[loisk]

Two issues to beware of - compliance needed to register a direct import, ie after all the customs stuff, and check warranty which often does not apply for parallel import.
And yes they are expensive here... But I still love spyders.

Another big big peeve I have is that we get two years warranty and that's it - no three year if preordered, no Best program, no nothing...

You can always indent the exact colour you want thru brp oz... Dealers may not mention this because either they don't know or want to sell floorstock. Indent works for models where brp have complianced.

Spyderlovers is the best resource ever.

[SPYD1]

I was in Melbourne in June and shocked by the prices of the Spyders at a dealer there. I was actually shocked of the prices of everything.

[nhoj]

Australia buys direct from BRP Canada and our conversion costs are based on exchange rate which is about $1 Canadian for $1 Aust...... So I think that maybe even with our poor exchange rate of $1 aust to .75 cents us$ a personal import form USA may be cheaper,

Not sure how your prices get so high but you would be better to purchase one directly from Canada rather than the US.

From the two BRP sites, current pricing for an F3T:
US$ = 24,099 = $AUD 32,183
CAD$ = 27,799 = $AUD 28,096

4,000 $AUD less from Canada.

The conversion from $CAD to $AUD today is 1.0107
The conversion from $US to $AUD today is 1.3355

[bigwhammy]

[QUOTE=SpyderAnn01;1182945]

Weird question . . . can you buy a Spyder in Canada or USA and get it registered if it has not been assembled out of the transport/packaging container.
Our dealers scrap the shipping box/ containers.

/QUOTE]

David, I might be able to do that but I don't know if you could. I could take the paperwork to my DMV and they would register the Spyder to me without having the Spyder present- since I am a Nevada resident - but I don't think you could register anything without being a resident. That may be different in other states, I don't have that answer for you. I know that if I brought in a Spyder from out of state I would have to take it to the DMV for them to verify the VIN.

If someone took delivery and titled the Spyder in their name couldn't they then sell it to you as a used machine? Would that get you around the import fees?

unfortunately. No.
i would have to pay about 17%.
I was trying to even get around paying any USA vat, gst or what tax you have to pay as a resident on a new machine. Do you pay tax in Nevada? I could buy one and store it unregistered in USA. I can own it but it becomes a sliding scale on import duties here.
Used has to be used and basically that means over 12 months old. Do dealers in USA sell demonstrators? Here they use that to avoid tax and can pass on savings to the buyer.
I got around that in the 90's as a temp resident in Texas when I imported Fieros.
I am talking with someone here in Canberra they make all the rules. I have a permit to import vehicles but not motorcycles.
thanks for the feedback.

[bigwhammy]

Two issues to beware of - compliance needed to register a direct import, ie after all the customs stuff, and check warranty which often does not apply for parallel import.
And yes they are expensive here... But I still love spyders.

Another big big peeve I have is that we get two years warranty and that's it - no three year if preordered, no Best program, no nothing...

You can always indent the exact colour you want thru brp oz... Dealers may not mention this because either they don't know or want to sell floorstock. Indent works for models where brp have complianced.

Spyderlovers is the best resource ever.

thanks.
I am an automotive engineer and licenced mechanic, I can get around compliance.
They have relaxed a couple more of the rules last year so I am talking with Canberra to see what the fine print is.
I have been through the process to get compliance plates green ones for several cars as they required my engineers sight for conversions from left to right. Obviously that is not needed for the Spyder plus they sell them here. I might be ok if he dealers actually do not import the specific model ? I am not sure if Australia will be getting the Daytona version?
If it breaks I will just have to fix it myself, I believe that the warranty claims rate is pretty good up there with Honda. I have not read of any full motor claims.
thanks for the feedback.

ps the first imports to Australia are not fully complied but they sold them as demonstrators with provisional compliance. I received the first fully compliance plated one.
The demo ones have American too noisy shorter exhausts and NO compliance plate under the rear seat. There were about 20 of these imported by BRP and dealers sold them on after 3 months. Compliance plated versions of F3s have the RT type exhaust.
David

[bigwhammy]

Not sure how your prices get so high but you would be better to purchase one directly from Canada rather than the US.

From the two BRP sites, current pricing for an F3T:
US$ = 24,099 = $AUD 32,183
CAD$ = 27,799 = $AUD 28,096

4,000 $AUD less from Canada.

The conversion from $CAD to $AUD today is 1.0107
The conversion from $US to $AUD today is 1.3355

thanks
I do not know why but shipping costs from Canada are about 10% more for me.
The free trade agreements are being looked at here to adjust our import duties/ taxes so I have to consider that. Should be better off here in about 3 years for imports but our manufacturing industries are just about non existant. We have stooped making ford Falcons and Gm holdens here. We basically now rely on imported vehicles.
They are looking at more relaxation on personal imports.
I think it is more about our government taxing us very highly.
we pay tax on everything over and over again.
Federal and state taxes are very high here.
The journal I receive from our institute of management ( I have an MBA) has us as one of The highest taxed developed counties In the world.
All our entrepreneurs become residents of the USA to avoid our taxes eg Rupert Murdock.
Australian BRP site does not put prices up.
An F3t sells here Rrp for about $29,000 $aus then add 2000 for dealer and on road costs (state taxes mostly).
Canadas exchange rate has been much the same for the last 10 years but our prices seem to go up but in some cases go down. We can get chryslers cheaper now than we did 3 years ago.
best bet for me is to hope we have dollar for dollar exchange rates with us again. Did your spyders cost more when your dollar was 1 to 1 with Canada?
Luckily China has not started to produce half price 3 wheelers.
David

[loisk]

Hi again David, sounds like a fun project.
Jeff got the 1st F3S in Vic, just after you (yes with the RT muffler yuk), and Yes the Daytona (F3S Special) is going on sale in Australia.
It'll be interesting to see what you come up with given the recent change to import regs, but I don't think you will save many dollars in the end - counterintuitive I know, but that's my guess.

[Ranman42]

[QUOTE=bigwhammy;1183254]

unfortunately. No.
i would have to pay about 17%.
I was trying to even get around paying any USA vat, gst or what tax you have to pay as a resident on a new machine. Do you pay tax in Nevada? I could buy one and store it unregistered in USA. I can own it but it becomes a sliding scale on import duties here.
Used has to be used and basically that means over 12 months old. Do dealers in USA sell demonstrators? Here they use that to avoid tax and can pass on savings to the buyer.
I got around that in the 90's as a temp resident in Texas when I imported Fieros.
I am talking with someone here in Canberra they make all the rules. I have a permit to import vehicles but not motorcycles.
thanks for the feedback.

Yes dealers sell demo units and offer a discount. I can't speak for any other state but Illinois would still consider it a new vehicle as it was untitled. Unless someone at dealership had it in their name. Don't know if this helps you or not.

[bigwhammy]

[QUOTE=Ranman42;1183296]

Yes dealers sell demo units and offer a discount. I can't speak for any other state but Illinois would still consider it a new vehicle as it was untitled. Unless someone at dealership had it in their name. Don't know if this helps you or not.

Thanks. My son is in his last year at Berkeley Cal
He will be eligible to personally import it. He meets all the criteria.
I am just not sure if I can trust him to keep it good until he comes home permanently.
He can import a second hand or new one as long as he owns it for 12 months before he comes home permanently. But only 1 vehicle every 5 years, I think he wants to bring home a truck.
I can get a personal import plate for $100., After getting a Vehicle Safety Compiance Certificate. I think I can get it as a MAOV or MIP. I can issue the blue slip.
They seem to go cheap second hand?

[monkeyboymorton]

I imported my F3 from Germany to the UK to avoid the over pricing here. Saved a lot of money and EU conformity regs made it failry easy. I did drop on with the GBP/EUR exchange rate being 1.4 at the time too.

I decided importing from the US to the UK would be too difficult and costly to make it worth while. But if you can make it work US to AUS all power to you.

Headlights and indicators would need converting as you have the same setup we get in Europe. Dipped beam in the side pods and extra rear indicator stalks. Main centre heradlight would need changing if the US shutter style is not legal in OZ or bulbs switching to a fixed high beam. Would need some way to get the side low beams to be on with the engine running.

I can give you part numbers for the RHD Hella dipped beam unit to go in the pods if you want it? Don't get them from BRP, they wanted 6 times the price I paid for the OEM parts!!!

[Bob Denman]

If you bought yourself a motorcycle that was built in Australia; it might be cheaper...

[loisk]

If you bought yourself a motorcycle that was built in Australia; it might be cheaper...

Yeah but I think he wants a Spyder! Sadly BRP have not set up a factory in Australia...

No mainstream manufacturers in Oz, just a few chopper conversions, cafe racers etc working on existing bikes.

[Bob Denman]

I pretty much knew that...
Let's face it: The isn't a game for those among us, who are afraid to spend money...
How are the prices on used Spyders?

[monkeyboymorton]

How are the prices on used Spyders?

Probably the same as the UK, inflated by the high new price and lack of used supply / competition in the dealer network. I could sell mine tomorrow for a fair bit more than it cost me to import.

So I get to own it almost for free for a few years

[loisk]

Interesting question re used prices, Bob. I was just looking on eBay.com and noted that your used prices seem roughly on a par with ours - which considering our buy new prices are eg $29 for f3s which is I believe a lot higher than yours, I concluded that ours dropped more $. The us is of course a much larger market, so it makes sense.
I have decided that that spyder ownership is as big a money pit as home renovation!
So we've stopped renovating

[Bob Denman]

But it's still cheaper than a divorce!

[bigwhammy]

I imported my F3 from Germany to the UK to avoid the over pricing here. Saved a lot of money and EU conformity regs made it failry easy. I did drop on with the GBP/EUR exchange rate being 1.4 at the time too.

I decided importing from the US to the UK would be too difficult and costly to make it worth while. But if you can make it work US to AUS all power to you.

Headlights and indicators would need converting as you have the same setup we get in Europe. Dipped beam in the side pods and extra rear indicator stalks. Main centre heradlight would need changing if the US shutter style is not legal in OZ or bulbs switching to a fixed high beam. Would need some way to get the side low beams to be on with the engine running.

I can give you part numbers for the RHD Hella dipped beam unit to go in the pods if you want it? Don't get them from BRP, they wanted 6 times the price I paid for the OEM parts!!!

Thanks.
as a personal import some ADR rules are relaxed we can import left hand drive vas personally without conversion to rh drive.
headlights would need changing as the us version dip down the wrong way. LHD.

ADR for indicators I would put on aftermarket to comply.the RS ones look better
the main harness is the same I can wire in the lights pretty simple job.
hell a thing number would be handy save me some researching.
thanks

[bigwhammy]

If you bought yourself a motorcycle that was built in Australia; it might be cheaper...

Australia's free trade agreements especially with China has all but destroyed our manufacturing industry. We do not even produce cars here any more. No more ford Falcons or GM holdens.
so producing a bike is out of the question.
As an experienced automotive engineer and licenced machinist I mentor university students and most are going over seas to get jobs. Some come from our top private schools who also teach them mandarin from age 6 so they are already to work in high paid jobs in China or Asia.
Protective tariffs will be gone in a couple of years so imports will become cheaper.
Australia sells its technology to the highest bidder. Along with lots of the stuff we can dig up out of the ground.

[nhoj]

Did your spyders cost more when your dollar was 1 to 1 with Canada?

I think you mean when our Canadian Dollar was on par with the US Dollar.

The exchange rate does not seem to affect our (Canadian) pricing. There always seems to be a 3-4K difference.

As an example....
Sept 2012 the Canadian Dollar was higher than the US Dollar. 1 $US = 1.03 $CAD (ah the good old days, 2012!)

BUT... a base 2012 RT was 21,699 $US and the same base 2012 RT was 24,399 $CAD

pricing from... http://web.archive.org/web/201209090...n-am-roadsters

[Colin]

Here in New Zealand, we pay even more than Australia, probably 15-20% more.
But at the end of it all, that's the only way to get them with a warranty etc...
My theory is, if all the non USA/Canadian Spyder people imported their Spyders
directly, then there would probably be no dealers or service people for them when
you need them.
So I buy from and support my local dealer, to ensure they are around when I need them.

[MRH]

This is all outside of my expertise, but it feels like a world of hurt. It was a moderate pain just to get a Spyder I bought in another state registered in California.

Given your patience, can you wait till a slow time of year, and find a really good deal somewhere in Australia? At some point, a dealer will benefit more from selling another unit (to hit a quota) than the profit on the unit, and if they know they have a guaranteed sale they may pick up the phone on the day they need to make the sale.

This is slightly off topic, but may be of some value. It's all about how car sales works for dealers in the US.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...e/513/129-cars

[bigwhammy]

I think you mean when our Canadian Dollar was on par with the US Dollar.

The exchange rate does not seem to affect our (Canadian) pricing. There always seems to be a 3-4K difference.

As an example....
Sept 2012 the Canadian Dollar was higher than the US Dollar. 1 $US = 1.03 $CAD (ah the good old days, 2012!)

BUT... a base 2012 RT was 21,699 $US and the same base 2012 RT was 24,399 $CAD

pricing from... http://web.archive.org/web/201209090...n-am-roadsters

Yes and our Australian dollar was also on par, worth more than a US dollar in feb 2012 we could get 107 US OR 107 Canadian dollars for our 100 Australian. And like you we still paid more for a Spyder. But we also paid a lot more than Canadians. 32 k US / Canadian at that time.
Our dealers and a lot of business do not pass on any where near the full exchange rate fluctuations to the end consumer they just make more money themselves.

[bigwhammy]

Here in New Zealand, we pay even more than Australia, probably 15-20% more.
But at the end of it all, that's the only way to get them with a warranty etc...
My theory is, if all the non USA/Canadian Spyder people imported their Spyders
directly, then there would probably be no dealers or service people for them when
you need them.
So I buy from and support my local dealer, to ensure they are around when I need them.

I purchased the first bike sold by Western Motorcycles 42 years ago and have given them my patronage ever since, to help the family stay in business.
I did purchase $12,500 $us worth of genuine BRP products from the dealer to set the f3s up. Not e bay specials.
It is our high taxes that make up most of the extra costs along with exchange rates. The dealer is only make a living along with employing staff.
The other side of the coin is that the few BRP dealers have a monopoly here in Australia and can charge an above fair price, I think to supplement their being no big profit margin on motorbikes.
Australians supported the car manufacturing industry here in Australia for many years along with government tax payers support. Some of the workers were getting $125,000 US$. to fit a windscreen in a falcon. The consumer and tax payer paid for that. Now we do not make Falcons or Commodores.
A Ford Falcon xr6 turbo (a world class car) cost $75,000 US$ , now we can get a get a v8 GT ford mustang for that money.
We are stuck with imports now for cars and motorcycles. We can get cheap cars , bikes but not cheap Spyders.
If and when the Cheap labour countries try and build a Spyder BRP will have to lower their costs and profit margins for share holders. BRP have 2 facilities now in Mexico. Just wonder how long before Spyders are assembled there instead of Canada?
I suppose we have to pay, Shares in BRP in 2013 were $30 dropped to $20 in 2015 and are creeping back up from April this year up to $26. now.
BRP is an interesting company employ 8,000 people but do not say where, having facilities in Austria, 2 in Mexico, Finland, 2 in Canada and 2 in USA (Wisconsin - Evinrude, Nth Carolina - Evinrude engines).