stupid!!!!!

[kep-up]

I just finished changing my oil and filters, again. And I cannot believe the intelligence level of the Can Am Spyder designers! To change oil one must remove not one, but 4 body panels to access the drain plugS and filterS. Not one plug, mind you, but TWO! STUPID! And replace not one oil filter, mind you, but TWO! And different filters at that! STUPID! Especially since the oil is used in both the engine and transmission, why TWO and not only two, but two DIFFERENT filters. In all of my motorcycles that used the same oil in the tranny and the engine not one had more than ONE drain plug and ONE filter.

Unbelievable!!

[MurrayBrown]

I just finished changing my oil and filters, again. And I cannot believe the intelligence level of the Can Am Spyder designers! To change oil one must remove not one, but 4 body panels to access the drain plugS and filterS. Not one plug, mind you, but TWO! STUPID! And replace not one oil filter, mind you, but TWO! And different filters at that! STUPID! Especially since the oil is used in both the engine and transmission, why TWO and not only two, but two DIFFERENT filters. In all of my motorcycles that used the same oil in the tranny and the engine not one had more than ONE drain plug and ONE filter.

Unbelievable!!

I share your concern(s). There must be logic for both filters ... it would be interesting to hear from BRP.

For me, I have been considering drilling out a large hole under the Spyder, so that a plastic cap can be inserted when not needed, to avoid the removal of the bottom plastic plate. It would then be so easy to snap out the cap, drain the oil, retighten the cap, and then snap the cap back in. I wonder if anybody else has ever done this?

[billybovine]

If you only wanted one filter then you should have bought a manual version. It only has one. Maybe it's time to trade yours in.

[Samson]

I have a Suzuki M109 LE that has 2 drain plugs. It does however have only 1 filter. I just got the F3 T so have not experienced the filter and oil change yet but will no doubt have the same thoughts.

[billybovine]

I share your concern(s). There must be logic for both filters ... it would be interesting to hear from BRP.

For me, I have been considering drilling out a large hole under the Spyder, so that a plastic cap can be inserted when not needed, to avoid the removal of the bottom plastic plate. It would then be so easy to snap out the cap, drain the oil, retighten the cap, and then snap the cap back in. I wonder if anybody else has ever done this?

It's not really that hard to remove and replace that panel. But if it bothers you that much. Do as many others do and just do not put it back on. Hang it on the wall as art.

It is perfectly logical to have 2 filters. There are 2 separate systems that only share the oil and oil tank on a SE5 like you have. The HCM draws oil out of the oil tank. That oil could be dirty after returning from the engine. So it needs to be filtered before going through the HCM. Same with the engine. Oil in the tank could be dirty so needs to be filtered before going through the engine.

[billybovine]

I have a Suzuki M109 LE that has 2 drain plugs. It does however have only 1 filter. I just got the F3 T so have not experienced the filter and oil change yet but will no doubt have the same thoughts.

They have a different engine then you have and the HCM filter does not get changed everytime the engine filter does on yours.

[ThreeWheels]

Yes, I agree totally.
For routine maintenance, such as oil changes, taking off all that body work is really foolish.
At least on the newer ACE engines, the maintenance interval has bee substantially increased.
IMPORTANT NOTE: While your changing your oil, change out those allen/torx head drain plugs to hex head plugs from Dimple Products.

In general, I have to say that maintenance on these machines is not well thought out.
Wait till you have to change out a headlight bulb !

[Deer Slayer]

If you only wanted one filter then you should have bought a manual version. It only has one. Maybe it's time to trade yours in.

Flippy Flappy girl transmissions have two filters.

[Sam Mac]

Engineers/ designers should be required to work on what they designed.

[jcthorne]

I just finished changing my oil and filters, again. And I cannot believe the intelligence level of the Can Am Spyder designers! To change oil one must remove not one, but 4 body panels to access the drain plugS and filterS. Not one plug, mind you, but TWO! STUPID! And replace not one oil filter, mind you, but TWO! And different filters at that! STUPID! Especially since the oil is used in both the engine and transmission, why TWO and not only two, but two DIFFERENT filters. In all of my motorcycles that used the same oil in the tranny and the engine not one had more than ONE drain plug and ONE filter.

Unbelievable!!

And not one had a semi automatic transmission.


As for two plugs, every car or bike I have ever owned that had a try sump oil system had a drain plug on the tank and one on the engine. Its VERY common and normal design practice.

On my F3, NO body panels need come off for an oil change.

[kep-up]

Yes, I agree totally.
For routine maintenance, such as oil changes, taking off all that body work is really foolish.
At least on the newer ACE engines, the maintenance interval has bee substantially increased.
IMPORTANT NOTE: While your changing your oil, change out those allen/torx head drain plugs to hex head plugs from Dimple Products.

In general, I have to say that maintenance on these machines is not well thought out.
Wait till you have to change out a headlight bulb !

Have done. What a PIA!!

[kep-up]

Flippy Flappy girl transmissions have two filters.

I betcha my left hand doesn't get as tired as yours whilst sitting at one of those extra-long traffic signals or tied up in rush hour traffic.

[kep-up]

It's not really that hard to remove and replace that panel. But if it bothers you that much. Do as many others do and just do not put it back on. Hang it on the wall as art.

It is perfectly logical to have 2 filters. There are 2 separate systems that only share the oil and oil tank on a SE5 like you have. The HCM draws oil out of the oil tank. That oil could be dirty after returning from the engine. So it needs to be filtered before going through the HCM. Same with the engine. Oil in the tank could be dirty so needs to be filtered before going through the engine.

Doesn't make sense to me. The method off rotating the shifting drum has nothing to do with the oil or internal components of the transmission or of the engine crankcase. So, why is it logical to have 2 separate systems? Requiring 2 separate filters? Arrange the oil return passages/lines to utilize one filter.

[billybovine]

Of course oil is involved in rotating shift drum. Hydraulic pressure moves the external shift lever. That replaces your foot doing it on a manual.

[JerryB]

Hi kep-up,

Re: Doesn't make sense to me.

It does not make any sense to me either. I'm a retired Mech Engr & agree with everything that you've post in this thread.

A very simple effort at efficient design would have one filter + easy access to it = lower costs to the owners.

What is so difficult about that?

Jerry Baumchen

[jerpinoy]

Doesn't make sense to me. The method off rotating the shifting drum has nothing to do with the oil or internal components of the transmission or of the engine crankcase. So, why is it logical to have 2 separate systems? Requiring 2 separate filters? Arrange the oil return passages/lines to utilize one filter.

This is the reason why you are the consumer and they are the manufacturer, engineers. Life is full of unknown but we need to deal with and move on.

You are also the reason why things get better by pointing out issues that can be improve. I've work on a diesel engine that no oil change is required because the old oil is process and added to the fuel system. I have chevy equinox that have no auto transmission dipstick. We can accomplish a lot of things when we work together.

Welcome to our new world

[Bob Denman]

I miss the "Good Old Days"; when we only complained about the valve stem on the rear wheel...

[kep-up]

Of course oil is involved in rotating shift drum. Hydraulic pressure moves the external shift lever. That replaces your foot doing it on a manual.

maybe I am the stupid one, but I must disagree a bit. True, the hydraulic piston does the actual shifting, but this piston is completely sealed in the oil bath. The actual actuation of the shifter is done by an electrically powered solenoid valve outside the transmission housing. Sooo, again I ask why the separate filter for the transmission?

[billybovine]

maybe I am the stupid one, but I must disagree a bit. True, the hydraulic piston does the actual shifting, but this piston is completely sealed in the oil bath. The actual actuation of the shifter is done by an electrically powered solenoid valve outside the transmission housing. Sooo, again I ask why the separate filter for the transmission?

No it is not. The double pistons are outside the gear box, outside of the engine. It is part of the HCM (Hydraulic Control Module) that is bolted to the side of the engine on a SE5. The actual transmission on a SE5 and a SM5 are identical. Nothing internally is any different. On a manual a shift pedal is clamped onto a shaft coming out of the gear box. You use your foot on this pedal to shift gears. On a semi that pedal is replaced by a lever, on that same shaft, that is connected to a rod that goes to the HCM. The HCM shifts the gears.

There is no separate filter for the transmission. Yes it is commonly called the transmission filter but no oil that passes through it goes directly to the transmission. It is really the HCM filter. It is there to protect the HCM only. Oil is sucked out of the oil tank by the HCM pump. Filtered by the HCM filter. That hydraulic pressure operates the gear shift lever and over rides the centrifugal clutch. Controlled by solenoid valves. That are controlled by the shift computer. When the HCM is done with the oil it is dumped into the engine sump to be returned to the oil tank.

[jcthorne]

The reason for the separate filter for the hydraulic control module is it requires a much finer spec filter but small volume. If they used one filter for all the oil to handle sufficient volume for both and fine enough filtration for the HCM, the filter would be several times the size of the one on the engine. Its just not needed. So yes, its a trade off but they made the correct choice.

[cptjam]

Relocate the belly pans to a shelf in the garage at the first oil change. Discard the stock plugs for dimple plugs. Future oil changes are fast and easy after that!!

[burg650]

Can Am Spyder designers don't care what you think when it comes to how the bike was designed when it comes to servicing the engine, after all they want you all to take it in to a dealer.

[kep-up]

No it is not. The double pistons are outside the gear box, outside of the engine. It is part of the HCM (Hydraulic Control Module) that is bolted to the side of the engine on a SE5. The actual transmission on a SE5 and a SM5 are identical. Nothing internally is any different. On a manual a shift pedal is clamped onto a shaft coming out of the gear box. You use your foot on this pedal to shift gears. On a semi that pedal is replaced by a lever, on that same shaft, that is connected to a rod that goes to the HCM. The HCM shifts the gears.

There is no separate filter for the transmission. Yes it is commonly called the transmission filter but no oil that passes through it goes directly to the transmission. It is really the HCM filter. It is there to protect the HCM only. Oil is sucked out of the oil tank by the HCM pump. Filtered by the HCM filter. That hydraulic pressure operates the gear shift lever and over rides the centrifugal clutch. Controlled by solenoid valves. That are controlled by the shift computer. When the HCM is done with the oil it is dumped into the engine sump to be returned to the oil tank.

After a re-look, I stand corrected. Thank you for not putting emphasis on my being the stupid one.

[Koop]

No it is not. The double pistons are outside the gear box, outside of the engine. It is part of the HCM (Hydraulic Control Module) that is bolted to the side of the engine on a SE5. The actual transmission on a SE5 and a SM5 are identical. Nothing internally is any different. On a manual a shift pedal is clamped onto a shaft coming out of the gear box. You use your foot on this pedal to shift gears. On a semi that pedal is replaced by a lever, on that same shaft, that is connected to a rod that goes to the HCM. The HCM shifts the gears.

There is no separate filter for the transmission. Yes it is commonly called the transmission filter but no oil that passes through it goes directly to the transmission. It is really the HCM filter. It is there to protect the HCM only. Oil is sucked out of the oil tank by the HCM pump. Filtered by the HCM filter. That hydraulic pressure operates the gear shift lever and over rides the centrifugal clutch. Controlled by solenoid valves. That are controlled by the shift computer. When the HCM is done with the oil it is dumped into the engine sump to be returned to the oil tank.

[billybovine]

After a re-look, I stand corrected. Thank you for not putting emphasis on my being the stupid one.

I have made similar judgements in the past. Why the hell would they do that!!!! It can go 2 ways. Some engineer made a really stupid decision. Or and more likely. We don't understand the real real reasons and decisions that went to that design choice.